5 ms·

It’s an extremely sad situation and will guarantee every single healthcare system eventually breaks down.

by ecf 5y ago

adewinter 5y ago
You're saying that it's a guarantee that every single healthcare system (in the world?) will break down because of _sugar consumption_? Seriously?
- imtringued 5y ago
  It is very close to the truth unfortunately. Maybe it won't break down but the vast majority of health care spending is there to undo the effects of a bad diet more than anything else.
- sp332 5y ago
  Diabetes is really rough on the organs. Especially once the kidneys go, you need dialysis 3 times per week and the treatment takes hours. If a substantial fraction of the population needs that treatment, it's going to be rough. Plus the eye surgeries for glaucoma, and other kinds of organ failure.
  - donkeydoug 5y ago
    can't decide if it's good or bad then that we somehow have universal care... but only for kidneys, lol https://www.npr.org/transcripts/131167638 https://www.npr.org/transcripts/131167638
    - alistairSH 5y ago
      Oh wow, thanks for the link. I had no idea that we covered kidney disease that way.
  - bschwindHN 5y ago
    > Especially once the kidneys go, you need dialysis 3 times per week and the treatment takes hours. My grandpa went through this in 2020. He was a tough navy guy, and even he said "This is a half-assed way to live", stopped the dialysis, and passed away a few weeks later. Once you're on dialysis, there's not much of a chance of going back to a life without it.
- voldacar 5y ago
  That plus the inverted population pyramid. It's certainly plausible
- roystonvassey 5y ago
  Yeah if birth rates stay low ( which they have now for a few decades esp in Western countries but true elsewhere), you’ll need either large scale immigration or lots of cash to service the social care system, which now has to service the growing number of the geriatric and chronically il
- Cthulhu_ 5y ago
  If sugar consumption is the leading factor in obesity, and if obesity is the leading factor in added pressure to the health care system, then... it's definitely a big preventable factor, I'd say. But it's not absolutes. Anyway yeah, some lifestyle choices need to be addressed to reduce pressure on the health care system. Like how for two years now we've had certain measures in place like social distancing and facial masks, not to eradicate the virus (that would require extended full stay-at-home mandate lockdowns) but to keep pressure on the health care system manageable.
- collegeburner 5y ago
  Almost every health care system is based on shared payment. Either insurance or socialized medicine, it's similar with a varying amount of pooling. If almost everybody is obese, us few healthy people may end up stuck paying for the fatties. And eventually, there will be too many fatties, they will vote that they can't be pooled separately so we have to pay even more, and there will at some point be too few of us. IInsurance for me should be very low. I am in great shape by anybody's measure. But all the drunks, junkies, fatties, make my payments so high I've debated dropping medical insurance.
nradov 5y ago
Why was this down voted? You're not wrong. Regardless of whether we have a private or socialized healthcare system, we simply won't be able to afford to continue delivering high quality care to everyone with chronic conditions caused by bad dietary choices and sedentary lifestyle. The resources just aren't there so we will increasingly have to ration care.
- strken 5y ago
  Why? Playing the devil's advocate here, 42% of the US population is obese right now. Why is it going to be impossible if that hits 60%, or 80%? I ask this as someone with a BMI of 23 who puts a reasonable amount of effort into not becoming obese or overweight again. The personal benefits of not dying from cardiac arrest at 55 are very obvious, but I'm not clear on why healthcare systems won't be able to cope.
  - nradov 5y ago
    Healthcare is already about 20% of the US economy. Where do you think the additional money is going to come from to care for a major increase in diabetics? The rest of the economy doesn't produce enough of a surplus to sustain that.
    - strken 5y ago
      A huge amount of spending goes towards the healthcare needs of the elderly, and obese people die early. Is there data that suggests increasing obesity increases overall healthcare costs, instead of decreasing them? I can understand the argument that diabetes resources, specifically, will be strained. If overall costs don't rise, that's not a huge problem.
      - nradov 5y ago
        Obese patients on average cost about $2500 per year more than normal weight patients. Even though they die earlier they still increase overall healthcare costs. https://www.jmcp.org/doi/10.18553/jmcp.2021.20410 https://www.jmcp.org/doi/10.18553/jmcp.2021.20410

It’s an extremely sad situation and will guarantee every single healthcare system eventually breaks down.

by ecf 5y ago

It’s an extremely sad situation and will guarantee every single healthcare system eventually breaks down.

You're saying that it's a guarantee that every single healthcare system (in the world?) will break down because of _sugar consumption_? Seriously?

imtringued 5y ago
It is very close to the truth unfortunately. Maybe it won't break down but the vast majority of health care spending is there to undo the effects of a bad diet more than anything else.
sp332 5y ago
Diabetes is really rough on the organs. Especially once the kidneys go, you need dialysis 3 times per week and the treatment takes hours. If a substantial fraction of the population needs that treatment, it's going to be rough. Plus the eye surgeries for glaucoma, and other kinds of organ failure.
- donkeydoug 5y ago
  can't decide if it's good or bad then that we somehow have universal care... but only for kidneys, lol https://www.npr.org/transcripts/131167638 https://www.npr.org/transcripts/131167638
  - alistairSH 5y ago
    Oh wow, thanks for the link. I had no idea that we covered kidney disease that way.
- bschwindHN 5y ago
  > Especially once the kidneys go, you need dialysis 3 times per week and the treatment takes hours. My grandpa went through this in 2020. He was a tough navy guy, and even he said "This is a half-assed way to live", stopped the dialysis, and passed away a few weeks later. Once you're on dialysis, there's not much of a chance of going back to a life without it.
voldacar 5y ago
That plus the inverted population pyramid. It's certainly plausible
roystonvassey 5y ago
Yeah if birth rates stay low ( which they have now for a few decades esp in Western countries but true elsewhere), you’ll need either large scale immigration or lots of cash to service the social care system, which now has to service the growing number of the geriatric and chronically il
Cthulhu_ 5y ago
If sugar consumption is the leading factor in obesity, and if obesity is the leading factor in added pressure to the health care system, then... it's definitely a big preventable factor, I'd say. But it's not absolutes. Anyway yeah, some lifestyle choices need to be addressed to reduce pressure on the health care system. Like how for two years now we've had certain measures in place like social distancing and facial masks, not to eradicate the virus (that would require extended full stay-at-home mandate lockdowns) but to keep pressure on the health care system manageable.
collegeburner 5y ago
Almost every health care system is based on shared payment. Either insurance or socialized medicine, it's similar with a varying amount of pooling. If almost everybody is obese, us few healthy people may end up stuck paying for the fatties. And eventually, there will be too many fatties, they will vote that they can't be pooled separately so we have to pay even more, and there will at some point be too few of us. IInsurance for me should be very low. I am in great shape by anybody's measure. But all the drunks, junkies, fatties, make my payments so high I've debated dropping medical insurance.

nradov 5y ago

Why was this down voted? You're not wrong. Regardless of whether we have a private or socialized healthcare system, we simply won't be able to afford to continue delivering high quality care to everyone with chronic conditions caused by bad dietary choices and sedentary lifestyle. The resources just aren't there so we will increasingly have to ration care.

strken 5y ago
Why? Playing the devil's advocate here, 42% of the US population is obese right now. Why is it going to be impossible if that hits 60%, or 80%? I ask this as someone with a BMI of 23 who puts a reasonable amount of effort into not becoming obese or overweight again. The personal benefits of not dying from cardiac arrest at 55 are very obvious, but I'm not clear on why healthcare systems won't be able to cope.
- nradov 5y ago
  Healthcare is already about 20% of the US economy. Where do you think the additional money is going to come from to care for a major increase in diabetics? The rest of the economy doesn't produce enough of a surplus to sustain that.
  - strken 5y ago
    A huge amount of spending goes towards the healthcare needs of the elderly, and obese people die early. Is there data that suggests increasing obesity increases overall healthcare costs, instead of decreasing them? I can understand the argument that diabetes resources, specifically, will be strained. If overall costs don't rise, that's not a huge problem.
    - nradov 5y ago
      Obese patients on average cost about $2500 per year more than normal weight patients. Even though they die earlier they still increase overall healthcare costs. https://www.jmcp.org/doi/10.18553/jmcp.2021.20410 https://www.jmcp.org/doi/10.18553/jmcp.2021.20410