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I work in billing software for a publicly traded software company and this is a constant temptation. I'm never gonna do it because I'm not gonna blow up my care

I work in billing software for a publicly traded software company and this is a constant temptation. I'm never gonna do it because I'm not gonna blow up my career for a relative pittance, but I can't tell you how many times I've been annoyed that I couldn't act on private information and make ~$100k or so. These guys are like the kids who saw the Tide Pod challenges and decided to actually eat the pods. I bet insider trading is not as fun when you're unemployed and bankrupt.

randomcarbloke 5y ago
What you're proposing is not insider trading but is likely prohibited contractually, if you tell your buddy to do it and in some way benefit...now you're in trouble. But capitalising on insider knowledge is generally okay from the SEC's perspective.
mynegation 5y ago
[Edited to remove harsh phrasing]. Consider this: there is no upside from this comment and quite a bit of potential (although likely low probability) downside.
- Eiriksmal 5y ago
  Being tempted and acting on those temptations are two different things. There is nothing damning in this comment. I appreciate the author's honesty.
  - mynegation 5y ago
    I have no reasons to imply that the commenter would be tempted or acted at all. But there are means of coercion other than money. I admit though, I watched too many spy movies and TV shows
    - daenz 5y ago
      I think you gave good advice. If someone has privileged access/info, they shouldn't advertise it to the world. It's just asking for trouble.
- scrose 5y ago
  Wouldn’t someone determined just look at LinkedIn?
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
- kieselguhr_kid 5y ago
  I think this is a fair criticism, but in all honesty a determined attacker would probably have better vectors both in terms of companies to trade against and in terms of people with access to actionable information. Also worth noting there have been times I've thought the price should go up and it went down, and vice versa. While I have a good view into financials (and believe I would have made money insider trading, on the whole), it's not complete enough to warrant something like threats, blackmail, etc.
rosndo 5y ago
> These guys are like the kids who saw the Tide Pod challenges and decided to actually eat the pods. I bet insider trading is not as fun when you're unemployed and bankrupt. Most insider traders are never caught, everyone eating tide pods gets sick.
- sonicggg 5y ago
  Agree with that, it's a bad analogy. These guys that got caught are the tip of the iceberg. They probably did something reckless in the process.
- kilroy123 5y ago
  My suspicions are many on Wall Street do it.
- ffggvv 5y ago
  my guess is if they did everything via in person discussions and didnt leave a paper trail of messages, they likely wouldnt have been caught
  - paulpauper 5y ago
    they almost always get caught. The SEC is so good at detecting this stuff especially when people do it many times thinking they got away with it the first few times. .
    - rosndo 5y ago
      Can you find any sources to support this claim? It is easy to find sources claiming the opposite. And no, it’s really difficult for SEC to detect any but the most basic forms of insider trading. Try to apply some adversarial thinking and envision a situation where you want to insider trade, but don’t want to get caught.
      - paulpauper 5y ago
        I have seen cases where people get caught even after using many middlemen/intermediaries involving seemingly multiple unrelated contacts, breaking the trades up into tiny batches, using encrypted chat services, making normal trades and trying to mix the illicit trades in. >Try to apply some adversarial thinking and envision a situation where you want to insider trade, but don’t want to get caught. Criminals take great efforts to not be caught and still are.
daenz 5y ago
>I bet insider trading is not as fun when you're unemployed and bankrupt. Not just unemployed, likely unemployable by any reputable company in the industry. Also, good on you for having integrity, but honestly what you say is too much for the average person to be tempted with. Does anyone have a solution for lowering that temptation and making these scenarios less likely?
- krageon 5y ago
  > too much for the average person to be tempted with The average person is basically a decent human being, so this is absolutely fine. It's the outliers that are the problem.
- ar_lan 5y ago
  They can probably get a job at a regional paper sales company, though.
- verdverm 5y ago
  You can obfuscate CII (Company Identifying Information) as much as possible. Limit the reveal to those that need to know. Auditing, and making employees aware you can see what they do with data might reduce the temptation because the risk of being discovered is (perceived to be) greater.
  - kieselguhr_kid 5y ago
    Unfortunately I need to know, because if the numbers are off I need to help fix them. I do take my responsibility to keep revenue numbers within a small group of people very, very seriously, because who knows if someone else would be too tempted to act.
- go_prodev 5y ago
  There's no single solution, but I think it comes down to a combination of annual compliance training, decent remuneration, being aware of your team's personal situations, having auditing systems in place and monitoring employee engagement scores as a proxy for job satisfaction and trustworthiness.
supramouse 5y ago
- djbusby 5y ago
  False. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Consumption_of_Tide_Pods https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Consumption_of_Tide_Pods Do not eat!!
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
throwra620 5y ago
paulpauper 5y ago
they were fooled by their smartness. They don't realize that the govt. plays for keeps.
seanmcdirmid 5y ago
It is just so easy to get caught, this kind of insider trading is just the classic dumb criminal crime. And at the end you only made $100k at the very high chance of some algorithm in the SEC easily detecting what you did. There are probably more lucrative and/or less risky ways of making illicit money.
alephnan 5y ago
> I bet insider trading is not as fun when you're unemployed and bankrupt. They wouldn’t have done if it they expected to be caught.
taxyz23 5y ago
> I work in billing software for a publicly traded software company and this is a constant temptation. I'm never gonna do it because I'm not gonna blow up my career for a relative pittance, but I can't tell you how many times I've been annoyed that I couldn't act on private information and make ~$100k or so. > These guys are like the kids who saw the Tide Pod challenges and decided to actually eat the pods. I bet insider trading is not as fun when you're unemployed and bankrupt. And in jail.

randomcarbloke 5y ago

What you're proposing is not insider trading but is likely prohibited contractually, if you tell your buddy to do it and in some way benefit...now you're in trouble. But capitalising on insider knowledge is generally okay from the SEC's perspective.

mynegation 5y ago

[Edited to remove harsh phrasing]. Consider this: there is no upside from this comment and quite a bit of potential (although likely low probability) downside.

Eiriksmal 5y ago
Being tempted and acting on those temptations are two different things. There is nothing damning in this comment. I appreciate the author's honesty.
- mynegation 5y ago
  I have no reasons to imply that the commenter would be tempted or acted at all. But there are means of coercion other than money. I admit though, I watched too many spy movies and TV shows
  - daenz 5y ago
    I think you gave good advice. If someone has privileged access/info, they shouldn't advertise it to the world. It's just asking for trouble.
scrose 5y ago
Wouldn’t someone determined just look at LinkedIn?
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
kieselguhr_kid 5y ago
I think this is a fair criticism, but in all honesty a determined attacker would probably have better vectors both in terms of companies to trade against and in terms of people with access to actionable information. Also worth noting there have been times I've thought the price should go up and it went down, and vice versa. While I have a good view into financials (and believe I would have made money insider trading, on the whole), it's not complete enough to warrant something like threats, blackmail, etc.

rosndo 5y ago

> These guys are like the kids who saw the Tide Pod challenges and decided to actually eat the pods. I bet insider trading is not as fun when you're unemployed and bankrupt. Most insider traders are never caught, everyone eating tide pods gets sick.

sonicggg 5y ago
Agree with that, it's a bad analogy. These guys that got caught are the tip of the iceberg. They probably did something reckless in the process.
kilroy123 5y ago
My suspicions are many on Wall Street do it.
ffggvv 5y ago
my guess is if they did everything via in person discussions and didnt leave a paper trail of messages, they likely wouldnt have been caught
- paulpauper 5y ago
  they almost always get caught. The SEC is so good at detecting this stuff especially when people do it many times thinking they got away with it the first few times. .
  - rosndo 5y ago
    Can you find any sources to support this claim? It is easy to find sources claiming the opposite. And no, it’s really difficult for SEC to detect any but the most basic forms of insider trading. Try to apply some adversarial thinking and envision a situation where you want to insider trade, but don’t want to get caught.
    - paulpauper 5y ago
      I have seen cases where people get caught even after using many middlemen/intermediaries involving seemingly multiple unrelated contacts, breaking the trades up into tiny batches, using encrypted chat services, making normal trades and trying to mix the illicit trades in. >Try to apply some adversarial thinking and envision a situation where you want to insider trade, but don’t want to get caught. Criminals take great efforts to not be caught and still are.

daenz 5y ago

>I bet insider trading is not as fun when you're unemployed and bankrupt. Not just unemployed, likely unemployable by any reputable company in the industry. Also, good on you for having integrity, but honestly what you say is too much for the average person to be tempted with. Does anyone have a solution for lowering that temptation and making these scenarios less likely?

krageon 5y ago
> too much for the average person to be tempted with The average person is basically a decent human being, so this is absolutely fine. It's the outliers that are the problem.
ar_lan 5y ago
They can probably get a job at a regional paper sales company, though.
verdverm 5y ago
You can obfuscate CII (Company Identifying Information) as much as possible. Limit the reveal to those that need to know. Auditing, and making employees aware you can see what they do with data might reduce the temptation because the risk of being discovered is (perceived to be) greater.
- kieselguhr_kid 5y ago
  Unfortunately I need to know, because if the numbers are off I need to help fix them. I do take my responsibility to keep revenue numbers within a small group of people very, very seriously, because who knows if someone else would be too tempted to act.
go_prodev 5y ago
There's no single solution, but I think it comes down to a combination of annual compliance training, decent remuneration, being aware of your team's personal situations, having auditing systems in place and monitoring employee engagement scores as a proxy for job satisfaction and trustworthiness.

supramouse 5y ago

djbusby 5y ago
False. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Consumption_of_Tide_Pods https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Consumption_of_Tide_Pods Do not eat!!

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

throwra620 5y ago

paulpauper 5y ago

they were fooled by their smartness. They don't realize that the govt. plays for keeps.

seanmcdirmid 5y ago

It is just so easy to get caught, this kind of insider trading is just the classic dumb criminal crime. And at the end you only made $100k at the very high chance of some algorithm in the SEC easily detecting what you did. There are probably more lucrative and/or less risky ways of making illicit money.

alephnan 5y ago

> I bet insider trading is not as fun when you're unemployed and bankrupt. They wouldn’t have done if it they expected to be caught.

taxyz23 5y ago

> I work in billing software for a publicly traded software company and this is a constant temptation. I'm never gonna do it because I'm not gonna blow up my career for a relative pittance, but I can't tell you how many times I've been annoyed that I couldn't act on private information and make ~$100k or so. > These guys are like the kids who saw the Tide Pod challenges and decided to actually eat the pods. I bet insider trading is not as fun when you're unemployed and bankrupt. And in jail.