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When I was labeled a ‘troubled’ teen, I obliged

• Overtonwindow 5y ago
  When I was labeled a troubled kid, they stuck me in the portable classrooms for the next 10 years and forgot to give me an education. They did however give me PTSD, anxiety, and sexually abused a few kids without ever being caught
• dghlsakjg 5y ago
  If you want to read something truly horrific check out elan.school . It was a troubled teen school in Maine that sounds unbelievable until you read multiple identical stories from students
  • rOOb85 5y ago
    I was one of the unlucky people who spent time at elan. It was a terrible terrible time. Much like the author of the article I was awoken by 2 big dudes in my bedroom and was given the choice to get dressed and go peacefully or they would drag me out of bed and take me away in my underwear. I said I'm not doing shit until my parents give you permission to take me. They handed me a piece of paper with both my parents signatures on it that effectively signed custody over to them. I asked if I could smoke a cigarette before we left and they told me I could smoke as many as I wanted in the van. That was the start of one of the worst times in my life. elan was a real life hell. AMA if you want.
    • fassshd 5y ago
      Have you read the comic linked above? Is any of it embellished or is how it’s portrayed pretty close to how it actually is?
      • rOOb85 5y ago
        I’ve read some of the comic but not all of it. From what I read it’s fairly accurate. I witnessed “the ring” and experienced first hand the psychological manipulation.
    • icelancer 5y ago
      Yikes. Nexpo's video on it seems like hell on earth. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7eM7pb5M5DU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7eM7pb5M5DU
    • dghlsakjg 5y ago
      How long were you there? Did your parents ever realize/own up to what you went through? Edit: sorry for my ghoulish interest. Reading that comic absolutely blew my mind, and left me shook.
      • rOOb85 5y ago
        I was very fortunate that my parents believed me and withdrew me after ~5 months. My parents sent me there with the best intentions. But elan tricked them. And they realized that. They have both apologized numerous times and explained how they regret the decision. Last year, so over 20 years later, out of the blue my dad just blurted out “I’m so sorry we sent you to elan. We truly didn’t know…”. It took me by surprise.
        • kingcharles 5y ago
          The parents get brainwashed by these companies. It's like a cult mindset. They've got the script down perfectly, preying on the parents insecurities and fears until rational people make irrational, fucked-up decisions.
          • rOOb85 5y ago
            Pretty much. elan knew exactly what the parents wanted to hear and see and would tailor the parents tour or questions around that.
            • candiodari 5y ago
              But what about most kids there are from group homes or foster situations? Those people don't have that excuse, except perhaps for the first kid. The comic states they send dozens of kids there, over the years. So for CPS, the "they didn't know" doesn't apply.
    • kingcharles 5y ago
      How long have you been out? What's your relationship with your parents like now?
      • rOOb85 5y ago
        I was there in 98-99 so it’s been a long time. My relationship with my parents is good. They truly sent me there with the best intentions and I know that. They have expressed remorse and have apologized many times over the years.
        • kingcharles 5y ago
          Honestly, I feel like all these parents are victims too. I'm glad it didn't destroy your relationship with your parents. It does for many :(
    • mrjangles 5y ago
      Yeah I'm glad you asked, I do have a question. I read that comic linked above, it was incredibly horrifying, but as I kept reading, something felt off about it. The guy who wrote it is clearly a professional writer and he uses many common manipulative tricks to engage the reader, and that bothers me a little, like he isn't being completely honest. So I did some research and it seems most of his facts check out with what other people say, but I have to wonder particularly about the part where he claims that they forced him to scream at and abuse his parents in exchange for holiday time. Do you know anything about that really happening? Did they really force kids to act crazy in front of their parents in order to ensure they got locked away at Elan for longer? I haven't heard anyone else corroborate that part. Edit: actually a read your other comments and it seems it really was as bad as this comic book says. Controlling what you were and were not allowed to say to your parents is crazy.
      • rOOb85 5y ago
        I haven’t read all of the comic so I can’t say if he embellished things. I can say 100% that screaming at people was very much encouraged(during “therapy” sessions or as punishment). It was referred to as “getting your feelings off”. Sometimes it would be in a group setting where you sat in a circle and everyone had to pick someone else in the group and scream at them as loud as possible about anything the person did that made you angry or annoyed you. Other times it was a form of punishment where they made you stand against a wall or in the corner and everyone else in the “house” would crowd around and all scream as loud as possible at you all at once. They only rules were you can’t make fun of them for things like race, sexuality, appearance, etc.
    • deleted 5y ago
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    • wickedsickeune 5y ago
      So, nobody went to prison for this?
    • teruakohatu 5y ago
      > they told me I could smoke as many as I wanted in the van. I know this is an inane question... But did they let you smoke in the van or was it a ploy? Sorry you had to go through that abuse.
  • gregmac 5y ago
    Seconded. This is a very compelling read, and a great graphic novel style. One of the things Joe says several times is how part of the design of the elan program is to be so absolutely insane that it literally sounds unbelievable if described to anyone. Coupled with a separate, well-groomed veneer presented to parents and the outside world, any "troubled" kids trying to explain what's really going on just come off as so massively exaggerating the situation that you can't even begin to take them seriously.
    • rOOb85 5y ago
      It’s also more then that. elan was VERY good at disguising themselves as a caring and helpful place. On paper, elan had it all. But it was all an illusion. My parents spent over 3 months researching different schools and elan seemed to have everything I “needed”. This was before the internet had social media and review sites so the people who elan abused didn’t really have a visible soapbox. My parents even went to elan and took a tour before sending me there. elan also had complete control of every letter or phone call. You have to earn the privilege to them. I had no contact with my parents for the first 2 months. And when I did, it was over a speakerphone in a room with a elan staff member who literally had their finger on the button to hang up if I pleaded for my parents to take me home. And before the call that day they had been coaching me for days on what I could and could not say. And if I said something I wasn’t supposed to I would lose all privileges and go “on shotdown”. elans vicegrip on communication actually led to my parents withdrawing me. They sensed something wasn’t right and (against elans wishes) demanded a in person visit with me(in person visits are a extremely privileged event). They saw I had lost a ton of weight and looked all fucked up and withdrew me.
  • kcplate 5y ago
    Very much reminds me of another “program” a good friend of mine endured for 2 years called “Straight, Inc.” Plenty of horror stories on the web about it as well. For nearly 40 years now I have heard him recount stories from his time there. I know them all and they still chill me every time he needs to tell them.
  • pmoriarty 5y ago
    The "Joe vs Elan School" comic you're referring to is really good, so I'd second this recommendation. Grim, but good. https://elan.school/chapter-1-5/ https://elan.school/chapter-1-5/
    • XorNot 5y ago
      Grim needs to be emphasized. It is not a happy time reading it. It is important though.
  • bobsmooth 5y ago
    What's the appropriate comment after reading about hundreds of children having their humanity tortured out of them?
• TeeMassive 5y ago
  > I was given prescription medication to ease my anxiety and depression, which left me hollow and numb. I was made to answer questions about my life and emotions until, I was told, I got them right, framing things in a way the program and therapists felt more accurately told a story about my deviance that I then internalized. My journals were confiscated, their private contents used against me in “therapy sessions.” Ooof, this one hits right home. My abusive parents sent me to an institution twice, except in my province it's the state and not private companies and the transporters do not come during the night. For me it was a "voluntary placement", that is one not ordered by judge and they "convince" you it's better for you to be there (or else). It was hell nonetheless. I was diagnosed with depression, took pills for depression and ADHD (wtf). It made me feel buzzed and like I was a soulless robot. I quickly learned how to hide them in the space below my tonsils. No questions, I was a troublesome kid. But I was the product of my environment, and the "specialists" never asked a fucking single question about life at home. Even shitty kids should not face abuse by their caretakers and government. I am also an adult bedwetter. The "specialists" there often use "manipulation" as a placeholder of their incompetence. So therefore, since I was wetting my bed to "manipulate", they forced me to stay in my room for 6 fucking months. I could only go outside for school and basic needs. I looked into suing them all. Turns out they delete records a few months after you leave. And since the "specialists" working for CPS all know and work together with the same lawyers and judges, no lawyer will want to these cases. The part about medication and your private information being used against you is very real and it really shaped my strong views around privacy and not trusting other people taking decisions for others but I digress. They used to note everything that people hated and liked in a very systematic way to control us, it was so horrible that it has gotten to the point I numbed myself into not hating nor liking anything, or hiding it the best I could; even today I like barely nothing and endure injustice without complaining. Funny story, I wised up to their game and pretended to be antisocial and preferring being alone in my room so I would be "forced" to go outside. It worked. Turns out that the school's psychologist was feeding them information about me from our private sessions. To this day, I'm in my early 30s, I still have dreams and visions of shame, humiliation and sometimes of dark thoughts of getting back at them (I will leave it at that). CPS attracts the worst kind of abusive people. Anyone working in this industry should be viewed with suspicion, disdain and should not be allowed near kids or vulnerable people in general.
• MerelyMortal 5y ago
  https://archive.ph/7bSN8 https://archive.ph/7bSN8
• anm89 5y ago
  I was sent to one of these programs when i was 13. Two guys came to my house and picked me up in the middle of the night and traveled with me to a wilderness program in the north georgia mountains. That ended up turning into a 20 momth stay at their "Therapeutic Boarding School". About 5 years later the students burned the school down and i got about $2000 dollars in a class action lawsuit because they were hiring untrained therapists and admitting students who they knew were a risk to others around them. The schools was Hidden Lake Academy anf the wilderness program was Ridge Creek Academy AMA if anyone is interested.
  • anoonmoose 5y ago
    Only question I have is- do you still talk to the people who chose to have you sent there?
    • anm89 5y ago
      I do not
  • rOOb85 5y ago
    This is so weird and could definitely identify myself, but... I was sent to a therapeutic boarding school called elan. A month or two after I got home my best friend was "taken" and did outward bound then got sent to hidden lakes in GA. I still remember the first time I saw him a year or two later... He was home on a visit and snuck out of his house and rode his bike to our friends house. We got really baked and he got all serious and was like "Guys.... Do I have an accent now? I fucking hate how the people down there talk" lol
    • anm89 5y ago
      It is legitimately country down there. The show squidbillies is set in the North Georgia Mountains for reference on rge accent
• starwind 5y ago
  How do these cases not result in mass prosecutions? It shouldn't be too hard to tie a few people to the abuse at these schools, then police say, "give us names and help us understand who was responsible at the top, or you're looking at many, many years in prison for child abuse and we'll just find someone else who'll talk" You know, the same way prosecutors go after mobsters and drug rings
  • deleted 5y ago
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  • ummonk 5y ago
    I mean a German professor, Helmut Kentler, openly placed foster children with pedophiles for 30 years with the thinking that they would love them more. He was never prosecuted.
  • erdos4d 5y ago
    Do you really believe that the judges and prosecutors who send kids to these abuse factories don't now they are going to harm the child? That's why they do this, they like to hurt/intimidate/damage people, that's literally all their jobs do all day long. Why would they go along with prosecuting people who were performing the abuse they wanted done? I'm sorry but these places have been out in the open since they first started, kids have been telling similar stories to this from the beginning. No way the people doing this don't know exactly what's going on and actively want it to happen to the kids they send there.
    • wolverine876 5y ago
      We can think of other populations that consistently tell stories of abuse, over generations, and are downplayed and denied - today, yesterday, even here on HN.
      • deleted 5y ago
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      • DiggyJohnson 5y ago
• bell-cot 5y ago
  At best, the article seems disjointed and confused...then suddenly sort of resolves things in one vague and creepy paragraph. Reasonably symbolic of a teen in such circumstances, but the author hasn't been a teen for quite a few years. I finished it thinking "Yeah, the current system is a really poor fit for a lot of teens, and the 'corrective system' is crap too...but that was old news decades ago. The author offer no insight, no better idea, nothing."
• Gunax 5y ago
  I am so glad these abuses are receiving mainstream attention. The way we treat children in our society is rotten. 18 years a slave.
  • rOOb85 5y ago
    As weird as it may seem, Paris Hilton was actually sent to one of these places and has spoken out about them and shed some light on them.
    • nemo1618 5y ago
      Tom Hanks' son also mentioned offhandedly that he was "sent away to a wilderness program:" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iy47RTZRy9w#t=3m29s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iy47RTZRy9w#t=3m29s "It's 4 in the morning, there's two huge dudes in my room, they're like 'You're coming with us', and they put in the back of a car and drove me to the middle of nowhere."
      • hef19898 5y ago
        Not too long ago I saw Ricky Gervais' last Emmy speech, so funny that actually hurt, and so true that it actually hurt. Just brilliant. The reaction of the audience told more about the individuals there then about Ricky. Most women for example either laughed or nodded. Scorsese had a great time laughing about himself. Why am I mentioning that? Because Tom Hanks, it seemed, was close to yell at Ricky to just stop throwing "dirt" around. He looked like a hit dog, almost like he felt being accused of something. Adding the fact that he send his own child to tough love program doesn't paint too nice a picture of him. At the very least, he took the, for him, easy way of parenting and can't lough about himself (or his social circle).
  • 999900000999 5y ago
    Even when you turn 18, the nightmare doesn't end. I'm exceptionally lucky in that when I got my first apartment at 19 years old, you could still find an apartment in LA for $600. Now you're just screwed, I've met tons of people who are essentially trapped in extremely abusive homes well into their twenties and beyond. I've seen this happen to people from practically every background, with a good chunk of my Asian friends experiencing something like that. One lived in a homeless shelter for a while just to get away from his parents. Getting rid of the current FASA system which assumes harmonious families, would do so much to help young people get started. If I had a magic wand, I'd ban affirmative action completely, and in its place give everyone financial aid even if they don't have a relationship with their parents.
• thethethethe 5y ago
  I went to a few of these places. I tried to run away from one of them and then they made me exercise until I couldn't move any more. They called it "energy release." I couldn't bend my knees at all for at least 2 weeks. It's still open and has only grown since I left.
• Mirioron 5y ago
  I have a difficult time understanding this. I was a kid that was rebellious, but in a way that didn't get me in trouble. When I read stories like this I get an intense feeling of fighting back, or at the very least, hold everyone that participated in contempt for the rest of my life. I am certain that if my parents had done something like this I would never have forgiven them. Nor would I have forgiven anyone that works in a place like this.
  • deleted 5y ago
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  • erdos4d 5y ago
    Reading the comments here, I think that is exactly what has happened in many cases.
  • wolverine876 5y ago
    At a certain level it's not hard to understand, in that it's predictable: Power corrupts, and you can depend on it. People with power over vulnerable human beings, and with no check on their power, can be generally predicted to abuse it. Just look for those situations and I predict that you will often find it. (That's one reason transparency and openness are so important.) Look at child sex abuse scandals: Who do they abuse? Vulnerable children without resources to fight back. Have you ever heard of such a thing happening to the children of the powerful? At Penn State University, at least some of the victims were in a program for parentless children (I don't remember if they were orphans, foster kids, etc.). IIRC, one had been abused elsewhere and was kicked out when he reported it - what could he do this time? You know what the abusers say: 'Nobody will believe you.' And he's a child, alone in this situation.
    • throwaway999t 5y ago
      Tangential side note I have to mention about that Penn State thing. I was at the uni from 2011 to 2015 and my father served on the facility senate. Graham Spanier drew a salary from the university DESPITE being complicit in the cover-up until 2017. He merely was “removed from leadership.” It’s on us as a society to punish misuse of power more effectively. The consequences for misuse are often minor. https://apnews.com/article/north-america-us-news-ap-top-news-jerry-sandusky-graham-spanier-d621078f9cb6453a9c1c8a372f2c793f https://apnews.com/article/north-america-us-news-ap-top-news...
• deleted 5y ago
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• bumblebritches5 5y ago
  Sounds like the rich kid version of me. Parents students and teachers treated me like shit throughout elementary school, went to a new school and decided I wasn't gonna take it anymore. Started misbehaving and getting suspended literally all the time, had over 400 disciplinary actions on my school recorded, got expelled from a few schools then expelled from the whole district, as in they just wouldn't let me go to that high school at all... Turned myself around after choking my sister when I was 15 and damn near got arrested for it. As in, I was sitting in the back of a cop car, not handcuffed but they patted me down, bawling my eyes out. Thankfully my sister didn't say a word to the cop and that's when I decided I had to change.
• unityByFreedom 5y ago
  The field of "Positive Discipline" [1] or "Positive Parenting" provides workable solutions. There may not be a quick fix. The idea is to reinforce good behavior while weaning bad ones. There are a ton of podcasts and books on this topic you can find using those keywords. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Positive_discipline https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Positive_discipline edit: please explain your downvotes, thanks! As interesting as discussing the problems is, there is no end to that.
  • hef19898 5y ago
    Why I downvoted? Because, to me, the linked approach is the first (well, actually already a couple of miles) step towards tough love programs. It goes against everything good parenting is. Because at its core, much like tough love, the goal is to create "conforming" children that aren't causing any trouble. The goal of parenting, so, should be to offer a safe environment for kids to become who they are and want to to become no matter what that is. And to prepare them for an independent life. None of that is easy, and yes discipline is necessary. As a tool, not as a means. If parents would just accept that their kids aren't going down the road the parents choose for them a lot of trouble and issues in parenting would already be solved. >> The idea is to reinforce good behavior while weaning bad ones. That's how you educate dogs, and even with animals there a limits to what is acceptable (and rightly so).
    • unityByFreedom 5y ago
      > Because at its core, much like tough love, the goal is to create "conforming" children that are causing any trouble. "Positive Discipline" is nothing like the "tough love" described in this story. It's only "tough love" in the sense that you still give kids boundaries. There's nothing conformist about it. Rather, it encourages parents and kids to express themselves, allowing time for emotions to come out in a healthy way that encourages independence while reducing reliance on family members to step in and fix things that kids are capable of doing themselves. This all starts at a very young age, when you begin to sleep on your own, feed yourself, tie your shoes, etc. > That's how you educate dogs, and even with animals there a limits to what is acceptable (and rightly so). This is a discipline that's grown over the last 70+ years. Everyone responds to feedback. Learning, trial and error, evolution etc. apply to all species, albeit at different rates.
• duxup 5y ago
  It's hard read these stories and not wonder about the parents. At the same time I'm often drawn to the story of my high school buddy's youngest sister. His family was as normal as you might expect, the kids were perhaps unusually "driven", but in good ways, music, athletics, academics, all three even. But the youngest was driven to rebel in the most distributive ways possible, the usual running away from home, older / inappropriate men, drugs, alcohol. Everything short of physical violence, although that occurred too. It got so bad it was almost impossible to physically keep her in the house or apply any kind of rules. Any rule was just a goal for her to obliterate and more. The parents eventually sent her to some of these camps, she escaped, was notorious even among other troubled kids there. It all took an incredible toll on her parents. Financial and psychological. They would have done anything to help her, anything, so at times they chose those camps, even if it seemed just to provide physical safety. Eventually she turned 18 and left. Some contact here and there, she seemed to want the contact but also was aloof in a way. It seemed like she really kept in contact to keep up with the family dog more than anyone there. Years later in her early 20s she showed up at the family house unannounced. She was pregnant, her mom answered the door and she asked if she could come home. I don't know what happened between 18 and showing up that day, but after that day she was "back" and was a different girl. She worked for the family business for a while but she quit saying it wasn't for her. She took some college classes but didn't like school and the rules. She eventually took a job at a pet store grooming pets and loved it. She started doing it privately and my wife's family financed her buying a truck and remodeling it into a mobile pet grooming van (this was really early in the days before mobile pet grooming was "a thing"). Eventually the previously very troubled girl had keys to any number of houses in town (so she could pickup the pets while the owners were away) and she has been great since, kids, family, met a great guy. She's a model local small business person, mom, etc. I often want to ask her what changed, but I feel like mentioning it would reinforce a "troubled girl" label that I'm sure she knows some folks still think of her as. As a parent now I think on that other girl. It's unsettling to think of. These kind of camps are disturbing, but in some cases ... I get it when you feel like you're out of options. There are kids who misbehave, and there's situations that are orders of magnitude beyond that.
  • wolverine876 5y ago
• vonseel 5y ago
  I was sent to one of these schools and attended from late 2005 - early 2007. The school was called Excel Academy about an hour north of Houston; it has since been shut down. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Excel_Academy_(Conroe,_Texas) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Excel_Academy_(Conroe,_Texas) My reasons for being sent there are similar to the author's. I didn't take my dad's car without permission, but I did drink a lot, skip school, was generally rebellious and refused to be disciplined. My issues were compounded by the fact that my mom had died when I was 11 years old and my dad worked in a field that required lots of travel, so he had a lot of trouble supervising me. The school was terrible in its methods and I don't think their therapists were qualified. Males and females were completely segregated and talking to females would get you immediately thrown into "jumpsuit", which was the harshest discipline level and meant you lost all privileges and had to wear an orange jumpsuit 24/7. Responsibilities were doled out in a few levels: on-shadow, shadower, and appropriate. An "appropriate" was the highest level of responsibility, trusted to monitor groups and make sure nobody broke rules or talked about inappropriate topics. "Shadows" were trusted to watch other people and help the appropriates deal with new kids and misbehavers. On-shadow just meant you always had to be with someone watching you and you didn't have any of the trust given to higher levels. You weren't allowed to go anywhere without an "appropriate" and at least one other person. Even when I would take a shower or go to the bathroom, I had to have someone watching the door and waiting for me to finish. Parent phone calls and visits were supervised by an "appropriate" until you got to higher privilege levels and were allowed to go off-campus. This was to prevent newer kids from complaining to their parents and getting their parents to take them out of the program. Lots of the graduates were convinced by management to stay on for their "sobriety" and help as an employee/intern with the kids and dorms. I remember several graduates who stayed 6-12 months after their graduation doing this. Seemed like a scam to me. One guy from my class ended up marrying one of the dorm monitors, who was an older, but attractive woman in her ~30s. This seemed really odd to me, I don't remember there being any opportunities to do anything like have inappropriate relationships, but things did apparently change after I left. I heard a few months later kids were doing crazy stuff like breaking into the medicine cabinet and the males/females started hooking up. But when I was there, that kind of stuff was out of the question and unheard of. The only music we were allowed to listen to was really old stuff like Beatles, CCR... Movies were filtered for any scenes with alcohol or drug use, no talking about modern music, movies with drug use, drug use or partying / etc. was all forbidden topics that would get you in a ton of trouble. Punishments ranged from writing 40,000 god prayers to digging ditches or cleaning for hours. Overall, I needed some kind of wake up call, but I ended up leaving when I turned 18. They threatened that I wouldn't graduate on-time and go to college, but I had already been accepted to university and I knew that most of my credits would transfer. I finished out the year at public high school, went to college, and moved on with my life. Edit: I'm reading through https://elan.school https://elan.school , and it sounds like my school copied their program, even using a lot of the same terminology "strength" vs "non-strength" etc.
• arthurofbabylon 5y ago
  Stories about these institutions get conflated into a mess that scarcely resembles the reality. In a way, this is inevitable with a wide variety of schools and treatment centers, and a yet wider variety of perspectives. This particular story tells us little about these schools – it describes the perspective of a student, a client. This is valuable and I'm grateful to read it. However, I caution other readers against making assumptions about these institutions based on any given story. I would know – I attended four of these schools. Some incredibly strict (even dehumanizing) and others a joy (one had season passes to the local ski resort). Most of them blended these two polarities. Students exhibited huge variation in responses, to the point that a listener hearing them describe their shared experiences would be certain they were discussing different places. For example, some students thought it was abusive to require skiing and mountain biking two days per week (I disagree). Other students thought it was totally fine to be required to wear hospital scrubs as a means of stigmatization (I also disagree). Almost no one questioned social isolation as punishment – perhaps the most incredible abuse I routinely witnessed and was subjected to, considering the developmental phase of adolescents. My point: it will take a mosaic of perspectives to really understand what's going on. I also caution readers against abhorrence towards parents. Consider those not-rare parents who have tried everything to help a kid who is on the cusp of life in prison, undergoing their 8th overdose, or being repeatedly raped and subjected to prostitution/exploitation. Consider that many of these schools offer a greater education than what's locally available. Consider that some of these schools are effective and relatively safe. A final note that I believe clouds this topic -> We live in a puritanical, punitive society. Even for non-religious people, we have been inculcated with ideals of purity and expectations of punishment. These delusions and biases cloud this topic. My final guidance is to read these stories with an open mind. This author was truthful, and we should listen. The next story you hear will probably contradict it but also be truthful, and we should listen.
  • girvo 5y ago
    I have a question. Do these programs exist in other countries? A cursory search (I honestly am not sure what I should be looking for) couldn't find any here in Australia. Is this a uniquely American thing? Surely not, I assume. If it's not, do these programs have the same horrible stories coming out of them elsewhere, and if they don't, does that not paint a picture that the approach taken in the US isn't a good one? I freely admit to being pretty ignorant about all this. I do not have the best view on these "programs" though, from everything I've seen.
• kingcharles 5y ago
  Is anyone else disturbed at the sheer number of people in this thread alone who are coming out about being forcibly sent to one of these camps? And I'm thinking that statistically HN's demographic probably swings more towards nerdy, well-behaved white boys from two-parent families who are middle-class or above. Not necessarily who I would have thought would have been at harm from this scam. So, if the demographic I believe is least at risk is coming out in such numbers, how many kids are really being taken like this? I'm scared this problem is even bigger than the few media stories are making it out to be.
  • hef19898 5y ago
    Now that I come think of it, wouldn't that demographic actually be the target one? I mean you need to be affluent to send a kid to such a place. You, as in the parents, are under some social pressure to retain your social standing, you even have some lofty goals for your kids. You might be working, and travelling, a lot, so you're not around that much. After all, we are talking about private programs here. The poorer folks are usually victims of the state sponsored, and sometimes enforced against the parents will, programs. Which are as bad as those private ones. This is, of course, just a theory. In the end, so, I think that the number of abuse victims, pick any kind of abuse, is orders of magnitude higher then we all think.
    • kingcharles 5y ago
      You might be right on all those points. If you look at interactions with the justice system it is skewed towards poorer demographics, but as you say, those are not the target of the scam as they lack the significant funds required to pay. And in poor communities it is expected that your kids will get into trouble, sometimes even celebrated or encouraged by the parents (especially if gang membership is involved), so I can see that the middle-class or above are the ones that would be easily shamed into signing up.
  • barsonme 5y ago
    I come from a regular middle class background. Like, where your mom is a teacher, you drive to vacations instead of flying, and your neighbors are truck drivers and cops and firefighters and car salesmen. Lots of two-parent families, lots of white people. A bunch of kids got into all sorts of trouble, but I can only remember one kid getting sent away to one of these ”scare your kid straight” camps. He was a grade-A jackass, but the apple didn’t fall far from the tree, unfortunately. When he left, most people (adults and kids) had the same reaction: confused why a parent would do that to their child, but also not confused that those parents did it, and also not losing much sleep over who it happened to. And so, at least in my experience, this wasn’t some sort of epidemic. Maybe it is now, I don’t know. Maybe it’s something mostly rich people do.
• mrtweetyhack 5y ago
• fsckboy 5y ago
  > When I was labeled a ‘troubled’ teen, I obliged There's a chicken egg problem here: when you were labeled a troubled teen, you already were a troubled teen. What happened to you after was bad, but it wasn't all peaches and cream before. Finding the appropriate way to deal with troubled teens (even if it did start with poor parenting) is not easy, and this discussion seems like a one-sided caricature.
  • elliekelly 5y ago
    This begs the question: Is everyone who is labeled a “trouble teen” actually a troubled teen? I sincerely doubt the system is 100% accurate in assigning this label.
  • hef19898 5y ago
    Regardless of what people did, or someone perceived as bad behavior, there are things that should be totally, absolutely off limits and unacceptable as either "treatment" or punishment. What the author, and other in this thread, describe falls so squarely into the unacceptable category as things can be. I always wonder how such things can happen at all. Until I read comments like yours, and when combined with the usual power imbalance and social pressure, it all falls into place.
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  • bobsmooth 5y ago
    >Picked off. Kidnapped. Taken. Call it what you wish, but trying to sleep each night with the notion that a pair of strangers could come to lift you from your bed, whether your actions were deserving of this treatment or not, haunts me, haunts thousands. How can the response to that sentence be anything but horror?
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  • newaccount74 5y ago
• deleted 5y ago
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• YATA0 5y ago
  Fuck him. My cousin was killed by a "delinquent" (criminal) youth who was out for a joy ride in his mother's car.