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> We already have cheap comodity ARM chips, it's called the Raspberry PI . No we don't, and no it's not. At least not as far as the mass consumer is concerned.

> We already have cheap comodity ARM chips, it's called the Raspberry PI . No we don't, and no it's not. At least not as far as the mass consumer is concerned. Show me where a consumer can walk into Best Buy and purchase a PC with a decently powerful and inexpensive ARM processor powering it in place of Intel or AMD. That's something that Nvidia can actually make happen given its resources. The organization behind the Raspberry PI is microscopic by comparison, they have no resources to manage such an enormous consumer front (not even remotely close in fact). Your premise about the Raspberry PI is like techies on HN pretending that there's no need for x y z product/service, because you can just run your own social network on a machine in your closet at home, you can just run your own file server, you can just run your own mail server. No, consumers are never going to do that en masse. And consumers are never going to lean on the Raspberry PI to assemble their own machines either in massive quantities; that has to be a comprehensive, packaged product sold to them via retail that they plug in and use with zero assembly or hands-on customization required. It has to be relatively inexpensive and powerful enough to undercut and compete with what Intel and AMD bring to the table. Raspberry PI isn't even in the discussion.

einpoklum 5y ago
While I agree that Raspberry PI is not the same being able to buy PCs with an ARM chip - I must say you are over-reaching with your argument. Have a look at: https://www.raspberrypi.com/products/raspberry-pi-400/ https://www.raspberrypi.com/products/raspberry-pi-400/ this is a small PC, fitting inside a keyboard, based on the Raspberry PI. No assembly needed other than connecting it to peripherals - but that's like any other PC. Other than the keyboard housing it, it comes with a mouse and a PSU. It costs 100 USD and available from many vendors around the world, e.g.: https://chicagodist.com/products/raspberry-pi-400-kit?src=raspberrypi https://chicagodist.com/products/raspberry-pi-400-kit?src=ra...
liamwestray 5y ago
Uhh. The ARM-based M1 Mac mini is literally sold at Best Buy for under $700. It will run circles around any desktop PC within the same price range. And yes, the Raspberry Pi 4/400 is perfectly usable for general desktop computing for students. The default desktop OS is intuitive and it includes modern browsers, can watch Netflix/Disney+ DRM media, and run LibreOffice or WPS Office. Similarly, the Pine64 Pinebook Pro is actually quite serviceable for general desktop use at < $250, but you can also buy a $999 M1 MacBook Air at Best Buy if your needs cannot be satisfied by sub $250 computers.
- ChuckNorris89 5y ago
  Afaik the raspberry PI can't hardware accelerate stuff like Netflix in Browser so video watching experience is pretty ass.
  - liamwestray 5y ago
    You can do 1080p on the Pi4. https://itnext.io/the-2021-onward-guide-to-install-netflix-on-raspberry-pi-smartphone-as-the-remote-control-2e7662ccc80 https://itnext.io/the-2021-onward-guide-to-install-netflix-o... Edit: I've personally done it in browser. It works.
    - ChuckNorris89 5y ago
      Sure, but only once you tinker with it, not out if the box with Raspbian.
      - liamwestray 5y ago
        I've done it on Raspberry Pi OS. Edit: https://www.tomshardware.com/news/raspberry-pi-widevine https://www.tomshardware.com/news/raspberry-pi-widevine
        ChuckNorris89 5y ago
        Like I said, you have to tinker with it first. Your average Walmart buyer doesn't want to Google tutorials and do stuff from the command line to get HW accelerated YouTube and Netflix when every $200 Android phone can do that out of the box without any tinkering.
        liamwestray 5y ago
        HW accelerated Youtube already works out of the box on Raspberry Pi OS. It is less complicated to setup a Raspberry Pi than install Windows 11. Your average Walmart buyers don't even run antivirus, setup Google/Apply/Samsung Pay, install Microsoft Office, or know how to make a Windows 10/11 USB installer. $200 Android phones are notorious for not actually working correctly in getting apps to run.
jchw 5y ago
I agree most people won’t run a Raspberry Pi as a desktop. That is obviously true. I don’t think they were too far off the mark, though. Would the average person run a $300 ARM Chromebook? Probably. That exists today, too. > Your premise about the Raspberry PI is like techies on HN pretending that there's no need for x y z product/service, because you can just run your own social network on a machine in your closet at home, you can just run your own file server, you can just run your own mail server. No, consumers are never going to do that en masse. I used to be absolutely sure this could never, ever happen. It definitely can’t and won’t happen any time soon. However, it’s clear that the promise of the home server came far too early. I think the sentiment a lot of people have is that even if someone sold the perfect products and software, nobody would ever want it. Sure, it would offer the user more autonomy and control, but it costs money and is a constant responsibility. Nobody is going to ever feel a need to go out and do that when they can just pay a monthly fee for someone else to take care of it. Except people take that exact trade off all the time; Home ownership. Owning a home is also an expensive ordeal, extremely expensive at that, that comes with many responsibilities, and yet most people still long for the autonomy and control and other life benefits it has to offer. No individual has to own a house in most areas; you could rent, or buy a condominium unit, and have significantly less overall responsibility. I don’t think most people want to rent even if it was cheaper. Home ownership is a north star for many people. For better or worse, computers and the internet don’t seem to be becoming any less important for society. Mega corps rise and fall, paradigms shift, prices fall, software evolves. There’s a whole lot of growing distrust for corporations and their governments in tech right now, even to the layperson, and definitely to lawmakers. In the past few decades, people went out and bought expensive modems and big complicated desktop computers often just to experience the magic of the Internet. As far as I’m concerned, anything could still happen. And after that, the year of the Linux desktop will surely follow.
moondev 5y ago
Surface pro x?

einpoklum 5y ago

While I agree that Raspberry PI is not the same being able to buy PCs with an ARM chip - I must say you are over-reaching with your argument. Have a look at: https://www.raspberrypi.com/products/raspberry-pi-400/ https://www.raspberrypi.com/products/raspberry-pi-400/ this is a small PC, fitting inside a keyboard, based on the Raspberry PI. No assembly needed other than connecting it to peripherals - but that's like any other PC. Other than the keyboard housing it, it comes with a mouse and a PSU. It costs 100 USD and available from many vendors around the world, e.g.: https://chicagodist.com/products/raspberry-pi-400-kit?src=raspberrypi https://chicagodist.com/products/raspberry-pi-400-kit?src=ra...

liamwestray 5y ago

Uhh. The ARM-based M1 Mac mini is literally sold at Best Buy for under $700. It will run circles around any desktop PC within the same price range. And yes, the Raspberry Pi 4/400 is perfectly usable for general desktop computing for students. The default desktop OS is intuitive and it includes modern browsers, can watch Netflix/Disney+ DRM media, and run LibreOffice or WPS Office. Similarly, the Pine64 Pinebook Pro is actually quite serviceable for general desktop use at < $250, but you can also buy a $999 M1 MacBook Air at Best Buy if your needs cannot be satisfied by sub $250 computers.

ChuckNorris89 5y ago
Afaik the raspberry PI can't hardware accelerate stuff like Netflix in Browser so video watching experience is pretty ass.
- liamwestray 5y ago
  You can do 1080p on the Pi4. https://itnext.io/the-2021-onward-guide-to-install-netflix-on-raspberry-pi-smartphone-as-the-remote-control-2e7662ccc80 https://itnext.io/the-2021-onward-guide-to-install-netflix-o... Edit: I've personally done it in browser. It works.
  - ChuckNorris89 5y ago
    Sure, but only once you tinker with it, not out if the box with Raspbian.
    - liamwestray 5y ago
      I've done it on Raspberry Pi OS. Edit: https://www.tomshardware.com/news/raspberry-pi-widevine https://www.tomshardware.com/news/raspberry-pi-widevine
      - ChuckNorris89 5y ago
        Like I said, you have to tinker with it first. Your average Walmart buyer doesn't want to Google tutorials and do stuff from the command line to get HW accelerated YouTube and Netflix when every $200 Android phone can do that out of the box without any tinkering.
        liamwestray 5y ago
        HW accelerated Youtube already works out of the box on Raspberry Pi OS. It is less complicated to setup a Raspberry Pi than install Windows 11. Your average Walmart buyers don't even run antivirus, setup Google/Apply/Samsung Pay, install Microsoft Office, or know how to make a Windows 10/11 USB installer. $200 Android phones are notorious for not actually working correctly in getting apps to run.

jchw 5y ago

I agree most people won’t run a Raspberry Pi as a desktop. That is obviously true. I don’t think they were too far off the mark, though. Would the average person run a $300 ARM Chromebook? Probably. That exists today, too. > Your premise about the Raspberry PI is like techies on HN pretending that there's no need for x y z product/service, because you can just run your own social network on a machine in your closet at home, you can just run your own file server, you can just run your own mail server. No, consumers are never going to do that en masse. I used to be absolutely sure this could never, ever happen. It definitely can’t and won’t happen any time soon. However, it’s clear that the promise of the home server came far too early. I think the sentiment a lot of people have is that even if someone sold the perfect products and software, nobody would ever want it. Sure, it would offer the user more autonomy and control, but it costs money and is a constant responsibility. Nobody is going to ever feel a need to go out and do that when they can just pay a monthly fee for someone else to take care of it. Except people take that exact trade off all the time; Home ownership. Owning a home is also an expensive ordeal, extremely expensive at that, that comes with many responsibilities, and yet most people still long for the autonomy and control and other life benefits it has to offer. No individual has to own a house in most areas; you could rent, or buy a condominium unit, and have significantly less overall responsibility. I don’t think most people want to rent even if it was cheaper. Home ownership is a north star for many people. For better or worse, computers and the internet don’t seem to be becoming any less important for society. Mega corps rise and fall, paradigms shift, prices fall, software evolves. There’s a whole lot of growing distrust for corporations and their governments in tech right now, even to the layperson, and definitely to lawmakers. In the past few decades, people went out and bought expensive modems and big complicated desktop computers often just to experience the magic of the Internet. As far as I’m concerned, anything could still happen. And after that, the year of the Linux desktop will surely follow.

moondev 5y ago

Surface pro x?