3 ms·
Yes, a bribe in one country is often seen as just the cost of doing business in another. In the US should tips be considered bribes? What if you tip at the be
by aeternum 5y ago
Yes, a bribe in one country is often seen as just the cost of doing business in another.
In the US should tips be considered bribes? What if you tip at the beginning rather than the end in order to get better service?
- mistrial9 5y agothis is a formal fallacy - joining something substantial, serious and a matter of public law, to something personal, of little consequence, and governed at a local level. please reconsider this as this important public discussion evolves on YNews?
- aeternum 5y agoWhat is your definition of bribe then? Keep in mind that in countries like Cambodia and Yemen, something like 70% of public companies receive bribes. It is very much common practice and culturally acceptable.
- edgyquant 5y agoI would say at that level of acceptance it isn’t a bribe.
- ipaddr 5y agoIt is a bribe but it is accepted and perhaps not illegal
- seanmcdirmid 5y agoIt probably is illegal but the countries have weak rule of law (if rule of law is even a thing in those countries at all). Note that there are differences between fees and bribery, if something can be legally presented as a fee, it is no longer considered a bribe (important if you are an American or American company).
- aeternum 5y agoThis is why I brought up the example of pre-tipping. It is clearly not a fee but it is generally accepted. If you hand the Valet a $20 and say please park it close, is it a tip, fee, or bribe? How about at a bar, can you tell the bar tender "I have an extra $5 if you make it a heavy pour"? How about attending the Salesforce conference but it's mostly because you want to visit SF and see Metallica/Chainsmokers? We have bribes in the US, we just don't think of them as bribes.
- edgyquant 5y agoThat’s because none of those things are bribes. The definition of bribe is * persuade (someone) to act in one's favor, typically illegally or dishonestly, by a gift of money or other inducement.* Tipping your waitress isn’t illegally or dishonestly persuading someone to act in your favor.
- aeternum 5y agoSure it is, tipping a bartender for a heavy pour can be interpreted as colluding with the bartender to steal alcohol from the bar owner. Both illegal and dishonest. Asking your company to send you to Salesforce just to see Metallica/Chainsmokers is clearly dishonest, the expectation is that your primary reason for going is to network and learn + represent your company.
- seanmcdirmid 5y agoAt least when we did anti corruption training for Microsoft China, the emphasis was on government employees, but that could also apply to grad students with stipends and anyone working for an SOE. So you can tip the doorman as long as they aren't working for the state, but you can't buy a grad student lunch (without pre-clearance anyways).
- edgyquant 5y agoUsually when you think bribe you think paying someone to get an advantage or edge, when everyone is paying something it’s just called the price.
- jimbob45 5y agoHis example was fine and doesn’t stand alone. Who’s to say that other countries don’t consider US lobbying to be a form of bribery? Realistically, no country is going to see their own bribery as actual bribery because no one wants to have to blatantly admit they’re the bad guy.
- striking 5y agoThere are laws around transparency in lobbying in the US. It would be bribery if you didn't abide by those laws when conducting your lobbying activities.
- mc32 5y agoNot Poster, but I agree to a degree. It’s defined as such but in practice it can have the effects of bribery. If so, is it then legal bribery? Politicians set up foundations and then people or organizations coincidentally benefiting from some legislation donate or underwrite these foundations…
- Melatonic 5y agoIt is also super easy to get around those transparencies - the lobbying system in the US is for sure a big big problem Bribery with extra steps!
- markdown 5y ago> something personal, of little consequence, and governed at a local level https://www.opensecrets.org/orgs/microsoft-corp/summary?id=D000000115 https://www.opensecrets.org/orgs/microsoft-corp/summary?id=D...
- vmception 5y agoI consider the associated penalty in the US as a bribe of public officials and cost of doing business. It takes a special level of hubris for Americans to go “noo, its different because we have due process”, when the user experience of a simpler bribe and slightly more convoluted bribe is 1:1