5 ms·

Exactly. Even the mindset of thinking in "driving" vs. walking or public transport shows a lot.

by shafyy 5y ago

XorNot 5y ago
It is however realistic given the the US's urban layout and population preferences. Also nowhere has succeeded in keeping essential, low paid workers living near where they work - gentrification forces them out.
- astrange 5y ago
  Tokyo has. Their population continually grows and their rent is flat. The secret is Japan doesn't let cities run their own zoning, because they'd just use it to ban new people but try to keep the jobs.
  - seanmcdirmid 5y ago
    You can also rent really small apartments that wouldn’t be allowed in the west. 2.5 tatami, no shower in building, shared toilet, no central heating, $250/month.
- daniel-cussen 5y ago
  That's because their work has so much value and they get paid none of it. EDIT: That's what Henry George said. The reason San Francisco land has so much value and the land in an undeveloped part of California has nearly none is the development, meaning the work of developing it, what human hands do to the land to transform it, the construction. You can sprinkle gold on it and nothing, put a bulldozer there (capital) and nothing, send an entrepreneur or economist to look at it and nothing. It's when people work that it becomes worth something.
  - erik_seaberg 5y ago
    Most of the price is due to the shortage of land, near the employment market, where the government has permitted any housing to exist. Someone paid over a million for a half-burned shell in Walnut Creek, which is a lot more than a very nice house in the middle of nowhere.
    - daniel-cussen 5y ago
      Yeah exactly. Couldn't have put it better myself.
- kasey_junk 5y ago
  How do you define success in this case? I live in a neighborhood where the median income is below the national average by about 10% and above the national average by about the same amount. This implies to me that there are is a fair bit of economic diversity. Also, I very rarely encounter a service worker that does not live within 25 minutes of the establishments in my neighborhood unless they do so by choice to live in a much hipper neighborhood. Part of this is a university that stabilizes the real estate prices and attracts a lot of low income students who take on service jobs, but also a big part of it is housing diversity. Within 1 block of me are a commercial district, a high rise building, many mid-rise buildings, lots of townhomes and a handful of single family homes including at least 2 I’d call mansions. This housing diversity came about due to several phases over the course of over 100 years of urban planning that specifically centered on making it possible for lots of housing desires to be fulfilled in a single place. It’s entirely possible if there is enough will. But that will is lacking.
  - ByteJockey 5y ago
    > I live in a neighborhood where the median income is below the national average by about 10% and above the national average by about the same amount. My brain is not parsing this sentence properly. Could you elaborate a touch? I'm reading it as "the neighborhood median income is, at the same time, 10% below and 10% above the national average income", which is only possible if both the national average and your neighborhood median is 0. I presume I'm reading it wrong.

Exactly. Even the mindset of thinking in "driving" vs. walking or public transport shows a lot.

by shafyy 5y ago

Exactly. Even the mindset of thinking in "driving" vs. walking or public transport shows a lot.

It is however realistic given the the US's urban layout and population preferences. Also nowhere has succeeded in keeping essential, low paid workers living near where they work - gentrification forces them out.

astrange 5y ago
Tokyo has. Their population continually grows and their rent is flat. The secret is Japan doesn't let cities run their own zoning, because they'd just use it to ban new people but try to keep the jobs.
- seanmcdirmid 5y ago
  You can also rent really small apartments that wouldn’t be allowed in the west. 2.5 tatami, no shower in building, shared toilet, no central heating, $250/month.
daniel-cussen 5y ago
That's because their work has so much value and they get paid none of it. EDIT: That's what Henry George said. The reason San Francisco land has so much value and the land in an undeveloped part of California has nearly none is the development, meaning the work of developing it, what human hands do to the land to transform it, the construction. You can sprinkle gold on it and nothing, put a bulldozer there (capital) and nothing, send an entrepreneur or economist to look at it and nothing. It's when people work that it becomes worth something.
- erik_seaberg 5y ago
  Most of the price is due to the shortage of land, near the employment market, where the government has permitted any housing to exist. Someone paid over a million for a half-burned shell in Walnut Creek, which is a lot more than a very nice house in the middle of nowhere.
  - daniel-cussen 5y ago
    Yeah exactly. Couldn't have put it better myself.
kasey_junk 5y ago
How do you define success in this case? I live in a neighborhood where the median income is below the national average by about 10% and above the national average by about the same amount. This implies to me that there are is a fair bit of economic diversity. Also, I very rarely encounter a service worker that does not live within 25 minutes of the establishments in my neighborhood unless they do so by choice to live in a much hipper neighborhood. Part of this is a university that stabilizes the real estate prices and attracts a lot of low income students who take on service jobs, but also a big part of it is housing diversity. Within 1 block of me are a commercial district, a high rise building, many mid-rise buildings, lots of townhomes and a handful of single family homes including at least 2 I’d call mansions. This housing diversity came about due to several phases over the course of over 100 years of urban planning that specifically centered on making it possible for lots of housing desires to be fulfilled in a single place. It’s entirely possible if there is enough will. But that will is lacking.
- ByteJockey 5y ago
  > I live in a neighborhood where the median income is below the national average by about 10% and above the national average by about the same amount. My brain is not parsing this sentence properly. Could you elaborate a touch? I'm reading it as "the neighborhood median income is, at the same time, 10% below and 10% above the national average income", which is only possible if both the national average and your neighborhood median is 0. I presume I'm reading it wrong.