13 ms·

I have quit my job

188 points by bitspook 5y ago

vmception 5y ago
> On my therapist’s suggestion Where do you all find therapists? I see that its super trendy to have one now and admit it but at the byproduct of them being pretty booked! what do?
- awill88 5y ago
  I interpret this as you may not have had previous experience with therapy that's focused on you. If I'm right, then my two cents is, avoid telehealth. The convenience is not worth it, the stakes are way too high and technology is nowhere near capable of replicating the intimate, human experience that you get (for free b/c the cost is tragically the same) by physically sitting across from another person. Other than that, finding the right person requires a little bit of luck. I responded really well to a therapist who was an LMFT and focused on boundaries, family systems.. I did a little CBT with them, changed my life fundamentally. You may not need all that. Regardless, avoid telehealth unless you have to.
  - vmception 5y ago
    > Licensed Marriage and Family Therapist (LMFT) > Cognitive behavioral therapy (CBT) News to me Okay, I'll avoid telehealth. No idea what the conversation prompt would be, I just want to hop on the trend, and tell people, mostly women, that I hopped on the trend. People are like "more men should have therapy", okay sure can't wait to casually mention that. If there is some silver lining of actually having something "unpacked" or introspected, then ideally I'll be a beneficiary of that too.
- Aeolun 5y ago
  Same way everyone else finds therapists. I get referred by my GP, and then join the waiting list so I can have a first appointment in maybe 7 months. Better hope it’s a good one. Yay social healthcare. At least it’s free.
seventyheads 5y ago
"If you can let go of the goals, you can quite enjoy the act. Counter intuitively, the result is often much better." This applies to many things in life.
- mathgladiator 5y ago
  I'm embracing the spirit of wandering in my life, and there is something special about knowing what is a priority versus what is joyful work. For example, I'm currently working on a low-latency durability solution for my SaaS (shameless plug: https://www.adama-platform.com/ https://www.adama-platform.com/ ). Do I need to be working on this? No... I should be working on the consumer side. However, I'm currently getting decent results. Granted, I'm having to wade through a bunch of optimizations, but the potential is right there: 1 ms commit time. Just need to figure out why it craps the bed every 30 seconds or so. It's super fun! And, I'm already got 8x the performance of RocksDB.
- bedobi 5y ago
  ...there’s a deeper reason... so many people don’t have hobbies: We’re afraid of being bad at them. If you’re a jogger, it is no longer enough to cruise around the block; you’re training for the next marathon... When your identity is linked to your hobby — you’re a yogi, a surfer, a rock climber — you’d better be good at it, or else who are you? Lost here is the gentle pursuit of a modest competence, the doing of something just because you enjoy it, not because you are good at it... It steals from us one of life’s greatest rewards — the simple pleasure of doing something you merely, but truly, enjoy. https://www.nytimes.com/2018/09/29/opinion/sunday/in-praise-of-mediocrity.html https://www.nytimes.com/2018/09/29/opinion/sunday/in-praise-... ...leisure is time away from work, not facilitating it. By viewing work as something we do to support our leisure time, rather than our hobbies as something to lower our stress so we can get back to work, we can actually start enjoying our lives. (I know, wild idea.) https://www.nytimes.com/2018/05/10/smarter-living/the-case-for-hobbies-ideas.html https://www.nytimes.com/2018/05/10/smarter-living/the-case-f...
  - vladvasiliu 5y ago
    > When your identity is linked to your hobby [...] > Lost here is the gentle pursuit of a modest competence, the doing of something just because you enjoy it, not because you are good at it... Isn't this the issue, though? If "you are what you do", because you link your identity to that, and what you do isn't "good", I can see how than can cause some issues. To take your example, if you're taking up jogging, so you can run a marathon, so you can take some Instagram photos at the finish line, so you can get the likes, this is the end result. So of course, just cruising around the block won't attract the likes, so it doesn't really help the end goal, does it? I think the issue is one of not stopping to smell the roses.
outsomnia 5y ago
Sounds like the job just treated devs as replaceable, identical "units", but the author comes across as an individual. The management would hate any sign of life from the "units".
- travoltaj 5y ago
  It's pretty common in outsourcing companies. Even in a lot of product based companies tbh. I had to push quite a bit to get people to stop referring to SWEs as "resources"..
  - gkop 5y ago
    I usually hear “resources” used in the abstract, which was grating the first time, but I’ve gotten over. Are you hearing that literally? Would you share an example sentence?
    - deleted 5y ago
      [deleted]
    - jxidjhdhdhdhfhf 5y ago
      "We need to move two more resources onto this project in order to meet our deadlines." I hear stuff like this all the time.
      - gkop 5y ago
        Yuck
    - travoltaj 5y ago
      Very literally. "We'll get a new front-end resource soon". "We're opening two more backfills for backend resources". "We need a front-end resource to unblock this ticket". I have a interview on Monday which I will decline. Literally copy pasting from their meeting invite - "Request to panel-Please Take Resource Snapshot along with Any ID Proof and share the Feedback along with IRF post completion of interview." It's gross.
bedobi 5y ago
Could more people use taking a break, for no particular reason, and not necessarily to work on anything - just taking a break for taking a break's sake? I think so. Especially hackernews people who are overwhelmingly more likely to be privileged enough to be able to do it compared to most. "...leisure is time away from work, not facilitating it. By viewing work as something we do to support our leisure time, rather than our hobbies as something to lower our stress so we can get back to work, we can actually start enjoying our lives. (I know, wild idea.)" https://www.nytimes.com/2018/05/10/smarter-living/the-case-for-hobbies-ideas.html https://www.nytimes.com/2018/05/10/smarter-living/the-case-f...
- 8n4vidtmkvmk 5y ago
  would love to take a nice long break and turn my head off for a bit. kinda hard when your employer stops paying you and the landlord still wants his rent
  - DocTomoe 5y ago
    Seems like the problem is in your attachment to your flat. Fixer-upper houses in the countryside are basically cheaper than a year's one-bedroom rent in the Bay Area. It's all a question of trade-offs. Would you rather a) have a soul-crushing job and a nice flat or b) live happily, but in the Mid-West?
    - Aeolun 5y ago
      If I had to decide for just me that would be an easier decision.
    - criddell 5y ago
      Those aren't the only two choices.
    - nnnnico 5y ago
      That is possible if you have 0 responsabilities, or just dont care
jmauritz 5y ago
This guy seems smart and ambitious but has a very romantic/naive mindset. A job is an exchange of services, never get it confused with your own mission or "dream".
- iCarrot 5y ago
  Yeah it read like he was competent in his job, but elsewhere in the company people were struggling so he was reassigned to help out. He should not have treated his employer's asset (the product) as his child and sacrifice things for it.
- hans1729 5y ago
  I disagree heavily with this. Lots of people make a living doing what they love/building a better world. Just because we normalized selling our attention to the highest fiscal bidder, doesn’t mean that the highest fiscal bid is actually valuable in terms of life quality. Nobody looks back and says “eh, I wish I’d have worked more at [soulless job]”. I think your perspective is extreme dystopian, and it makes me sad to think about how many people live their lifes with that mindset. Look up “purpose economy”
  - linza 5y ago
    Not going to try to look like I'm explaining how life works just my 2c: life is complicated and quality comes in different shapes and forms. "A job is an exchange of services" is a way to reduce this complexity and cut down on the interdependence of dimensions we optimize for. I personally don't have the constraint that i need to give everything to my job and it needs to give back, so i agree with the GP and don't see it as dystopian, just one of the many ways of living. Others legitimately do have this constraint and probably have to simplify elsewhere (not have kids is something I've seen a lot).
  - jmauritz 5y ago
    I might come off as really cynical, but i agree with your statement completely. The best place i worked didn't feel like work, smart motivated people with little managerial oversight and a shared vision, awesome times. What I'm trying to say is: look out for yourself out there because no one else will, don't let yourself be exploited
janmo 5y ago
I left my job when covid started and I do not intend to return into the workforce ever. I run some small projects and make a bit of money on it, although it is much less than what I did with the 9-5 job I have more money now than before. That's because Working has a cost: - living in an expensive area with high rents - transportation to the company - Eating out (No time to cook) - Taxes! - Health (Sitting around so much got me neck issues) In the end you end up not making any significant money and just playing into the pockets of some greedy landlord or company.
- chii 5y ago
  > I do not intend to return into the workforce ever. the thing is, if you could already live off your own wealth and assets, then yea, this is great. But what of those who do not own enough assets to support themselves without a paying job?
  - rmbyrro 5y ago
    Start a new venture. It takes literally pennies to serve a web app on something like AWS Lambda. You don't even need to pay a server. Invest some few hundred dollars on YouTube ads, targeting channels your audience watches. Learn how to craft effective ad videos with this course [1]. It's a lot of work, but I don't think we can excuse it on top of "I'm underprivileged". You can choose not to do this work. But it's your choice. [1] https://www.udemy.com/course/youtube-google-ads-marketing-and-advertising-traffic/ https://www.udemy.com/course/youtube-google-ads-marketing-an...
    - deleted 5y ago
      [deleted]
- sam0x17 5y ago
  I've been able to avoid nearly all of these by working remotely in a rural area for the last 5 years.
Frummy 5y ago
I had to quit my job due to mental health (autism). I rationalised it at the time, thinking with all the newfound time I could get so much done specifically for what I wanted to achieve personally rather than what brings in revenue for some billionaire family I don't know in Germany. 4 months later, I'm feeling a lot better mentally. My discipline has returned and all that. But there was a very heavy dip, especially due to the loneliness. That ritual of seeing some light every morning commute and meeting a lot of people every day is very undervalued, if you like me mostly judge a job by the tasks you have to get done. But it was worth it, quitting your job is a short term loss and a long term gain. We only have one life, and have to sacrifice money and an awe-inspiring LinkedIn facade to find beauty and passion. I'd rather learn music instruments, read three books a week, paint and sew clothes, than to have every day look the same in a cubicle and watch the months go by quickly and forgettably.
drewcoo 5y ago
You're in trouble so by the numbers: 1. We are all struggling with mental health. Such is life. That's no shame. 2. Counselors recommend stability, thus jobs. No shock there. 3. Counselors don't recommend quitting your job with no plan. What's the real story there? I can't tell. You proceed boldly, though . . . 4. You don't have endless possibilities. In fact you just ended one of them yourself, quite publicly! 5. If pragmatic decisions are a burden, consider seeking help. Other people or institutions can make pragmatic decisions for you while preserving your future options. 6. You don't owe anyone an explanation of why you were taken in. It's normal. We all are, sometimes, I think. 7. Real software engineers understand that they don't solve perfect math problems that will be taught in universities in perpetuity. We make things that will be (in some way) destroyed. And we are proud to build destroyable things. Sorry nobody told you abuot that. Seriously. I wish we were clearer! 8. Again, engineers get reassigned. Same as above. Sorry nobody explained that. It is hard for some people to deal. Especially the first time it happens. Hope they have good mentors/managers! 9. It's not any judgement on you. It's seriously not about you. It's about the project(s). It's impersonal and with no kind of malice directed at you. 10. You grew corporate domain knowledge. Companies claim they care abuot that. They don't. They show they care with money. And they pay money for core skills. (Note also, these skills do not degrade over time and you can gain them over a long career.) 11. Talking about "irrational" things. Stop. That's tainted with bad faith. Even if it matters, stop and take a breath. 12. What's next? You don't know but you have some bridges to burn. That should help give you direction. I only ask that if you stick with software, this is not a meditative profession so much as a highly collaborative one. We work together (and try to understand one another and talk with one another just like this) because we love being makers with other makers. There is nothing so delightful as creating a new thing with someone new, stranger!
- janmo 5y ago
  I loved doing coding on my own. Then I started to work for a few companies. Out of all of them there was only one where I felt good. It was a public research facility, they were doing scientific work. But they hadn't the money to hire me. (I was an intern there). The rest were just BS jobs. I quit, started my own projects and I am making enough money on them to live. I cut off all the costs related to work. (Expensive housing to live near the workplace, transportation, food, and health as I am not stressed anymore and much happier).
hans1729 5y ago
> I imagine building solutions to problems I see in my surroundings. For some irrational reason, I feel a desire to give back to society. I think there is nothing irrational about this. Look up “purpose economy”. Grinding away your life in the interests of some company that basically just wants to achieve financial gains is not satisfying at all, we’re just normalizing it because it’s lucrative and we live in a world where bills need to be paid. The future isn’t build by greed and hustle, but by ambition and dreams. Don’t let people tell you off for this. Artists don’t do what they do because they seek any kind of validation for it, yet they shape the cultures that we identify with. All relevant progress, both individual and societal, comes from people who don’t care for the established worldly order. The future is build by dreamers and visionaries, not by people who confuse the treadmill for a life worth living. You do you.
- chii 5y ago
  > I think there is nothing irrational about this. it's not irrational. Unless you ignore the lower needs on the Maslow's hierarchy of needs and spend your efforts on the higher needs. The lower needs are basic - sustenance and safety etc. If someone is wealthy enough to meet these needs with time and resources to spare, then it makes a lot of sense to spend the extra resources on the higher needs. But it is irrational to try to fulfil a higher need, when you don't already have the lower needs fulfilled first.
  - hans1729 5y ago
    That’s true of course, it comes down to the relative position in maslows model. Maybe I just assumed that the HN-audience is at the top of the pyramid almost by definition, but failed to do the adequate elaboration. Thanks!
  - hoseja 5y ago
    And that is why US is spending so much effort making sure the basic needs stay unmet.
    - A4ET8a8uTh0 5y ago
memonkey 5y ago
Is it irrational to care about/for your neighbor? I don't think so.
kxrm 5y ago
I left my last job because it wasn't really going how I wanted it to go. My wife and I have setup our finances such that we can live on a single income. For almost two years I did nothing but tinker on toy projects, personal projects and explore electrical engineering. I certainly found interesting companies along the way to apply for, and took contracting jobs that interested me, but largely I got to just explore. I finally found a job at the beginning of the year that felt right and was interesting enough for me to want to get involved. I have always had the attitude that work should be something you look forward to each day. If you aren't, leave. I have never worried about the consequences of those decisions because financially we are fine and with software engineering opportunities always available, I don't feel a sense of urgency to take the first thing that comes along. I know that not everyone is so privileged to live this way, but with careful financial planning, it's been enough for me. We all need rest, we all need time away. Plan your life according to you or your family's needs, not clients and not companies. We only get one chance at life, why waste it being unhappy in the pursuit of some distant future that may never come.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
ilrwbwrkhv 5y ago
I think there are people for whom jobs are never a natural fit. I am one of those people. Could never stick to a job for very long but could work on my personal project for years. That's why right now I'm unemployed too but I don't ever want to have a boss.
xupybd 5y ago
I'd love to work on something as a passion. Just big enough to keep my mortgage payments going out. I have no idea where to start. Dropping out of the work force sounds scary. I couldn't support my family for very long if I tried. I wish New Zealand paid as well as I hear the US does.
- gregplaysguitar 5y ago
  fwiw plenty of overseas companies are hiring remotely in NZ these days, some explicitly eg atlassian, gitlab, but anecdotally, many others are willing to hire here even though their job ads say US only. This is pushing salaries up in a big way - not to parity, but a heck of a lot better than it used to be. Worth looking around if your salary hasn’t changed in a few years :)
pjerem 5y ago
> I joined my last company because I was sold on an idea. Holly moly. I’ve been heavily burnt with the same mistake. The lesson I learned is : yes, SE don’t struggle to find work at good condition, but your project will probably be shitty and/or boring and/or deceptive and/or full of tech debt. Now I prefer to focus on the people I work with more than being sold on a project I’ll never own completely anyway.
- hef19898 5y ago
  You can be burned on people, too. All it takes is one "bad" hire far enough up the food chain and some of the "good" people to quit.
  - pjerem 5y ago
    Yes, but my point was to never choose a job based on the project you'll work on or on the product of the company. You WILL be disappointed. I guess the best way to work on a project you'll love is to be a founder. But as an employee, you'll need a looot of luck to work on an interesting project. I'm not saying that it doesn't exists, but rather that they are pretty rare, and you have very few opportunities to discover those from the outside.
    - rmbyrro 5y ago
      As a founder you'll need to deal with all expectations you see manifested here. It's not easy and probably not fun.
    - DiggyJohnson 5y ago
      I work in Aerospace. You are so, so right.
deleted 5y ago
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sjmm1989 5y ago
Honestly... as someone looking at going into freelancing due to how fucking shitty the job market seems to be as of late... I don't suggest getting a day job. Now of course it may depend on the job market you are in. I admit that. But my experience over the past 17 years I have worked now (minus pandemic years I guess...) I have never seen anything as bad as what I am witnessing on a regular basis now for 3 full years now. This isn't even the Pandemic that gets to be the one to catch all the blame for this. These employers are so heinous they have been this way since before 2019. But the pandemic has made it even worse. It's made it so that even employers who were once kinda decent are now even worse. And the cherry on top of this shit sundae? I've found proof that helps prove my point in regards to some of my old jobs. One of them was never a good place to work at in the first place, but it looks kinda nice and seemed better than most. How wrong was I? Well, so wrong that even though my reporting of them to the health board had them fail atrociously, they had already failed atrociously for multiple years now. Going back as far as 2010 if I remember correctly. And this seems to be a repeat occurrence the more I dig into the subject. Bad bosses have bad kitchens. (Yes, I'm food industry.) And bad kitchens tend to be run by bad bosses. There are exceptions to the rule it seems, but generally speaking... if you think you should report a place; you probably should have already done it before you stepped foot into the building. That's how bad it is right now. In Alberta, Canada. Again, there are a lot of good employers too, but I seem to keep missing them. Some I thought were bad though... turned out to be not half bad once they got their heads back on straight though. Hence my mentioning of that even the kinda decent ones earlier. One such employer, might just hire me back on, cause he's having a hard time finding anyone wanting to work in the kitchen. Can't say I blame them, since it's a small kitchen and it can be easy to get annoyed with other people in a small kitchen. Very easy. But none the less, he basically offered me a job back after talking to him about my last paycheck I left there during Wave 3. (And yes, if he were to read this, he would know exactly who I am right now. heh...) Anyways. I'm sure this fellow has his reasons for getting out of freelancing; but to me the freedom of being answerable ultimately to only myself is kind of nice. I don't mind hustling for a decent gig if need be, just so long as they treat me like a freaking human being. And so far... I seem to get that treatment more so from people I am helping doing gig work on the side, than I get from people who should know better than to treat their fellow coworkers like crap. Or their employees. Etc. As a final note: I highly suggest any Albertan's or anyone looking to come to Alberta for any reason at all, to avoid any restaurants that look even remotely dingy or seedy. If that kitchen doesn't sparkle, don't go into it. Yeah, it's that bad. Places that seem respectable on the outside will have some of the unholiest of kitchens on the inside. It's so bad, I'm considering moving back to Saskatchewan... the place I left to get away from BS back there. (Totally partially my fault.)
annie_muss 5y ago
I genuinely wish the author all the best, but I can't help but feel concerned. ADHD might be better named as "novelty addiction". I myself have quit jobs many times when I would have done better to stay put, always hunting for something new. If the author was successful as a freelancer and as an employee then he seems to have the ADHD under control well. That gives me hope that he will find his footing as he takes his next steps.
- smordistan 5y ago
  Does ADHD affect your ability to hold a committed relationship?
  - awill88 5y ago
    I'm no MD, but I would say it's more accurate to describe it as an inability to control impulses, which puts important relationship commitments at risk, romantic or otherwise.
cocoland2 5y ago
I wish the Charan all the best. Can't help but think this resonates so well with me may be because I sailed the same boat for 2 years now. Employers need to manage burnout , some of the smartest guys got so severely burnt out the last 2 years (may be stay at home thing) . To make it worse there was a constant imposter syndrome question that this was purely my productivity problem and did not speak to anyone about it. Now that i met a few in the office (like the real one , not home office) looks like a lot of them are on this roller coaster
ashildr 5y ago
May the squirrels lead your way !-)
DeathArrow 5y ago
>I joined my last company because I was sold on an idea. >But I was unprepared for the aftershock. It was traumatizing. I never had such problems because I joined the companies for money, not because I believed in whatever.
awill88 5y ago
There is a lot to unpack, but I hear you. “Perhaps I am not suited for working in a services company with rapid transitions“ I think you’re right. You read like you’re a people pleaser. I know it because I am too. You, like me, might have a difficult time with having a dynamic yet firm grasp on our purpose in, what is more often than not, textbook Kafkaesque situations; situations we put ourselves in, and we’re accountable for, too. Good luck in your journey of discovery. And you read like you’re also young-middle aged, also like me. So, from one to another, just remember it’s quite the privilege to publish a statement declaring in a public space that you’re “taking a break” from work. I don’t think you’re a trust fund baby, but you know, not everyone who gets you would sympathize with that statement. Maybe here, perhaps. Maybe I’m totally wrong about the author, or maybe I’m sort of over the tone deaf articles I read on here, like we aren’t all so fucking lucky to have these software engineer jobs, the ones that pay. Is it worth your mental health? Of course not. Find a new company, I had to. Best decision I ever made. So if I’m wrong, it’s worth the risk because I hope it drives home the point this article reeks of privilege.
- MrDresden 5y ago
  > "So, from one to another, just remember it’s quite the privilege to publish a statement declaring in a public space that you’re “taking a break” from work." Why this anger towards the author for doing what he considers to be the best thing for himself? Yes, being able to take a break from work is a privilege. But it isn't one that people should be publicly shamed for when needing to exercise it. Rather we should work towards having that option on the table for as many people on this planet as possible. Worker's rights have been so completely eroded (or never even established) in so many places around the world, that it breeds this kind of sick attitude of turning against those who decide to put them selves or loved ones before the employer and work. I say this as someone who is personally about to take a long sabbatical, with full pay, because of incredible burnout after having gone through a very traumatic period involving a partners cancer treatment. This is only possible because of the incredible strong union that I am a part of.
  - paskozdilar 5y ago
    > Why this anger towards the author for doing what he considers to be the best thing for himself? Because most of us don't have the luxury to take a break from work. Honestly, I feel jealousy towards people who can take a break from work. I've been feeling like I'm on a treadmill since my teen years. I am not ashamed of it, though - jealousy is a human feeling and we can't wish it away, we can only control it and not let it interfere with our lives.
leCaptain 5y ago
This is one of the most relatable blog post I have read in recent time. > precedence says I will fall into inaction and misery, and achieve nothing. Complete nothing Exactly what I am afraid of; and this fear is keeping me from quitting my job. At my current job I worked hard to deliver on a "innovative" solution, which would have removed a lot of manual work, but the project got re-prioritized when the manager was fired. I don't find any satisfaction in the current project; earlier I used to look forward to work, now it has become a chore. I have enough savings to last me 6-8 months. But I don't know if I'll be able to bounce back in case I end up wasting all those months.
- rmbyrro 5y ago
  If you want to take a break and financial runway is your only concern, move to a low-cost area of the world. If you live in a high-cost country, I bet your base minimum spending is around 2500 if you're single, and 5000 for a family of four. You can easily cut their by half in other areas of the world with a good quality of life. Instantly doubles your runway.
imtemplain 5y ago
jrib 5y ago
> I want to spend some time making impractical decisions. I want to build software which solve the problem of making me happy, or at least entertained. I hope you get a chance to do that, at least for a while. I want that too.
Helloyello 5y ago
[dead]
jasfi 5y ago
I quit my job too. I learnt that you should move fast to validate and launch projects. There also needs to be hard benefits for users. Set deadlines to launch your MVP. Some things I have worked on: https://tradecast.one https://tradecast.one Automated crypto trading. The main benefit here is obvious, making profits. https://cxo.industries https://cxo.industries Business tools for startups. This is the project that lots of people were interested in, but not many tried. I don't think I sold the benefits that well, but will take another look at it in the future. https://nexusdev.tools/ https://nexusdev.tools/ Dev tools I built in the process. This was a by-product of tools I wanted for myself. I want to get the first Open Source code drop out next month to validate if others want to build with this. Then perhaps build a commercial/Pro version.
- FL33TW00D 5y ago
  Any luck so far?
  - jasfi 5y ago
    Right now only CxO has launched. Not many people were interested in trying it out. I believe the reason is lack of product/market fit as the existing features aren't enough to hold peoples' attention. However I am planning to implement features that are far more interesting and closer to what people have asked for. I launched to get a working web app out the door in the spirit of shipping early. So it's minimum but perhaps not viable. I want to launch the MVP of TradeCast next month, which will be demo trading only. I'll soon know whether there is product/market fit. But then I was also scratching my own itch when I built it. There has been some interest in Nexus Dev Tools, which is encouraging, despite the admittedly sparse information on the landing page. I plan to release some code next month and will take it from there.

188 points by bitspook 5y ago

> On my therapist’s suggestion Where do you all find therapists? I see that its super trendy to have one now and admit it but at the byproduct of them being pretty booked! what do?

awill88 5y ago
I interpret this as you may not have had previous experience with therapy that's focused on you. If I'm right, then my two cents is, avoid telehealth. The convenience is not worth it, the stakes are way too high and technology is nowhere near capable of replicating the intimate, human experience that you get (for free b/c the cost is tragically the same) by physically sitting across from another person. Other than that, finding the right person requires a little bit of luck. I responded really well to a therapist who was an LMFT and focused on boundaries, family systems.. I did a little CBT with them, changed my life fundamentally. You may not need all that. Regardless, avoid telehealth unless you have to.
- vmception 5y ago
  > Licensed Marriage and Family Therapist (LMFT) > Cognitive behavioral therapy (CBT) News to me Okay, I'll avoid telehealth. No idea what the conversation prompt would be, I just want to hop on the trend, and tell people, mostly women, that I hopped on the trend. People are like "more men should have therapy", okay sure can't wait to casually mention that. If there is some silver lining of actually having something "unpacked" or introspected, then ideally I'll be a beneficiary of that too.
Aeolun 5y ago
Same way everyone else finds therapists. I get referred by my GP, and then join the waiting list so I can have a first appointment in maybe 7 months. Better hope it’s a good one. Yay social healthcare. At least it’s free.

seventyheads 5y ago

"If you can let go of the goals, you can quite enjoy the act. Counter intuitively, the result is often much better." This applies to many things in life.

mathgladiator 5y ago
I'm embracing the spirit of wandering in my life, and there is something special about knowing what is a priority versus what is joyful work. For example, I'm currently working on a low-latency durability solution for my SaaS (shameless plug: https://www.adama-platform.com/ https://www.adama-platform.com/ ). Do I need to be working on this? No... I should be working on the consumer side. However, I'm currently getting decent results. Granted, I'm having to wade through a bunch of optimizations, but the potential is right there: 1 ms commit time. Just need to figure out why it craps the bed every 30 seconds or so. It's super fun! And, I'm already got 8x the performance of RocksDB.
bedobi 5y ago
...there’s a deeper reason... so many people don’t have hobbies: We’re afraid of being bad at them. If you’re a jogger, it is no longer enough to cruise around the block; you’re training for the next marathon... When your identity is linked to your hobby — you’re a yogi, a surfer, a rock climber — you’d better be good at it, or else who are you? Lost here is the gentle pursuit of a modest competence, the doing of something just because you enjoy it, not because you are good at it... It steals from us one of life’s greatest rewards — the simple pleasure of doing something you merely, but truly, enjoy. https://www.nytimes.com/2018/09/29/opinion/sunday/in-praise-of-mediocrity.html https://www.nytimes.com/2018/09/29/opinion/sunday/in-praise-... ...leisure is time away from work, not facilitating it. By viewing work as something we do to support our leisure time, rather than our hobbies as something to lower our stress so we can get back to work, we can actually start enjoying our lives. (I know, wild idea.) https://www.nytimes.com/2018/05/10/smarter-living/the-case-for-hobbies-ideas.html https://www.nytimes.com/2018/05/10/smarter-living/the-case-f...
- vladvasiliu 5y ago
  > When your identity is linked to your hobby [...] > Lost here is the gentle pursuit of a modest competence, the doing of something just because you enjoy it, not because you are good at it... Isn't this the issue, though? If "you are what you do", because you link your identity to that, and what you do isn't "good", I can see how than can cause some issues. To take your example, if you're taking up jogging, so you can run a marathon, so you can take some Instagram photos at the finish line, so you can get the likes, this is the end result. So of course, just cruising around the block won't attract the likes, so it doesn't really help the end goal, does it? I think the issue is one of not stopping to smell the roses.

outsomnia 5y ago

Sounds like the job just treated devs as replaceable, identical "units", but the author comes across as an individual. The management would hate any sign of life from the "units".

travoltaj 5y ago
It's pretty common in outsourcing companies. Even in a lot of product based companies tbh. I had to push quite a bit to get people to stop referring to SWEs as "resources"..
- gkop 5y ago
  I usually hear “resources” used in the abstract, which was grating the first time, but I’ve gotten over. Are you hearing that literally? Would you share an example sentence?
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  - jxidjhdhdhdhfhf 5y ago
    "We need to move two more resources onto this project in order to meet our deadlines." I hear stuff like this all the time.
    - gkop 5y ago
      Yuck
  - travoltaj 5y ago
    Very literally. "We'll get a new front-end resource soon". "We're opening two more backfills for backend resources". "We need a front-end resource to unblock this ticket". I have a interview on Monday which I will decline. Literally copy pasting from their meeting invite - "Request to panel-Please Take Resource Snapshot along with Any ID Proof and share the Feedback along with IRF post completion of interview." It's gross.

bedobi 5y ago

Could more people use taking a break, for no particular reason, and not necessarily to work on anything - just taking a break for taking a break's sake? I think so. Especially hackernews people who are overwhelmingly more likely to be privileged enough to be able to do it compared to most. "...leisure is time away from work, not facilitating it. By viewing work as something we do to support our leisure time, rather than our hobbies as something to lower our stress so we can get back to work, we can actually start enjoying our lives. (I know, wild idea.)" https://www.nytimes.com/2018/05/10/smarter-living/the-case-for-hobbies-ideas.html https://www.nytimes.com/2018/05/10/smarter-living/the-case-f...

8n4vidtmkvmk 5y ago
would love to take a nice long break and turn my head off for a bit. kinda hard when your employer stops paying you and the landlord still wants his rent
- DocTomoe 5y ago
  Seems like the problem is in your attachment to your flat. Fixer-upper houses in the countryside are basically cheaper than a year's one-bedroom rent in the Bay Area. It's all a question of trade-offs. Would you rather a) have a soul-crushing job and a nice flat or b) live happily, but in the Mid-West?
  - Aeolun 5y ago
    If I had to decide for just me that would be an easier decision.
  - criddell 5y ago
    Those aren't the only two choices.
  - nnnnico 5y ago
    That is possible if you have 0 responsabilities, or just dont care

jmauritz 5y ago

This guy seems smart and ambitious but has a very romantic/naive mindset. A job is an exchange of services, never get it confused with your own mission or "dream".

iCarrot 5y ago
Yeah it read like he was competent in his job, but elsewhere in the company people were struggling so he was reassigned to help out. He should not have treated his employer's asset (the product) as his child and sacrifice things for it.
hans1729 5y ago
I disagree heavily with this. Lots of people make a living doing what they love/building a better world. Just because we normalized selling our attention to the highest fiscal bidder, doesn’t mean that the highest fiscal bid is actually valuable in terms of life quality. Nobody looks back and says “eh, I wish I’d have worked more at [soulless job]”. I think your perspective is extreme dystopian, and it makes me sad to think about how many people live their lifes with that mindset. Look up “purpose economy”
- linza 5y ago
  Not going to try to look like I'm explaining how life works just my 2c: life is complicated and quality comes in different shapes and forms. "A job is an exchange of services" is a way to reduce this complexity and cut down on the interdependence of dimensions we optimize for. I personally don't have the constraint that i need to give everything to my job and it needs to give back, so i agree with the GP and don't see it as dystopian, just one of the many ways of living. Others legitimately do have this constraint and probably have to simplify elsewhere (not have kids is something I've seen a lot).
- jmauritz 5y ago
  I might come off as really cynical, but i agree with your statement completely. The best place i worked didn't feel like work, smart motivated people with little managerial oversight and a shared vision, awesome times. What I'm trying to say is: look out for yourself out there because no one else will, don't let yourself be exploited

janmo 5y ago

I left my job when covid started and I do not intend to return into the workforce ever. I run some small projects and make a bit of money on it, although it is much less than what I did with the 9-5 job I have more money now than before. That's because Working has a cost: - living in an expensive area with high rents - transportation to the company - Eating out (No time to cook) - Taxes! - Health (Sitting around so much got me neck issues) In the end you end up not making any significant money and just playing into the pockets of some greedy landlord or company.

chii 5y ago
> I do not intend to return into the workforce ever. the thing is, if you could already live off your own wealth and assets, then yea, this is great. But what of those who do not own enough assets to support themselves without a paying job?
- rmbyrro 5y ago
  Start a new venture. It takes literally pennies to serve a web app on something like AWS Lambda. You don't even need to pay a server. Invest some few hundred dollars on YouTube ads, targeting channels your audience watches. Learn how to craft effective ad videos with this course [1]. It's a lot of work, but I don't think we can excuse it on top of "I'm underprivileged". You can choose not to do this work. But it's your choice. [1] https://www.udemy.com/course/youtube-google-ads-marketing-and-advertising-traffic/ https://www.udemy.com/course/youtube-google-ads-marketing-an...
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
sam0x17 5y ago
I've been able to avoid nearly all of these by working remotely in a rural area for the last 5 years.

Frummy 5y ago

I had to quit my job due to mental health (autism). I rationalised it at the time, thinking with all the newfound time I could get so much done specifically for what I wanted to achieve personally rather than what brings in revenue for some billionaire family I don't know in Germany. 4 months later, I'm feeling a lot better mentally. My discipline has returned and all that. But there was a very heavy dip, especially due to the loneliness. That ritual of seeing some light every morning commute and meeting a lot of people every day is very undervalued, if you like me mostly judge a job by the tasks you have to get done. But it was worth it, quitting your job is a short term loss and a long term gain. We only have one life, and have to sacrifice money and an awe-inspiring LinkedIn facade to find beauty and passion. I'd rather learn music instruments, read three books a week, paint and sew clothes, than to have every day look the same in a cubicle and watch the months go by quickly and forgettably.

drewcoo 5y ago

You're in trouble so by the numbers: 1. We are all struggling with mental health. Such is life. That's no shame. 2. Counselors recommend stability, thus jobs. No shock there. 3. Counselors don't recommend quitting your job with no plan. What's the real story there? I can't tell. You proceed boldly, though . . . 4. You don't have endless possibilities. In fact you just ended one of them yourself, quite publicly! 5. If pragmatic decisions are a burden, consider seeking help. Other people or institutions can make pragmatic decisions for you while preserving your future options. 6. You don't owe anyone an explanation of why you were taken in. It's normal. We all are, sometimes, I think. 7. Real software engineers understand that they don't solve perfect math problems that will be taught in universities in perpetuity. We make things that will be (in some way) destroyed. And we are proud to build destroyable things. Sorry nobody told you abuot that. Seriously. I wish we were clearer! 8. Again, engineers get reassigned. Same as above. Sorry nobody explained that. It is hard for some people to deal. Especially the first time it happens. Hope they have good mentors/managers! 9. It's not any judgement on you. It's seriously not about you. It's about the project(s). It's impersonal and with no kind of malice directed at you. 10. You grew corporate domain knowledge. Companies claim they care abuot that. They don't. They show they care with money. And they pay money for core skills. (Note also, these skills do not degrade over time and you can gain them over a long career.) 11. Talking about "irrational" things. Stop. That's tainted with bad faith. Even if it matters, stop and take a breath. 12. What's next? You don't know but you have some bridges to burn. That should help give you direction. I only ask that if you stick with software, this is not a meditative profession so much as a highly collaborative one. We work together (and try to understand one another and talk with one another just like this) because we love being makers with other makers. There is nothing so delightful as creating a new thing with someone new, stranger!

janmo 5y ago
I loved doing coding on my own. Then I started to work for a few companies. Out of all of them there was only one where I felt good. It was a public research facility, they were doing scientific work. But they hadn't the money to hire me. (I was an intern there). The rest were just BS jobs. I quit, started my own projects and I am making enough money on them to live. I cut off all the costs related to work. (Expensive housing to live near the workplace, transportation, food, and health as I am not stressed anymore and much happier).

hans1729 5y ago

> I imagine building solutions to problems I see in my surroundings. For some irrational reason, I feel a desire to give back to society. I think there is nothing irrational about this. Look up “purpose economy”. Grinding away your life in the interests of some company that basically just wants to achieve financial gains is not satisfying at all, we’re just normalizing it because it’s lucrative and we live in a world where bills need to be paid. The future isn’t build by greed and hustle, but by ambition and dreams. Don’t let people tell you off for this. Artists don’t do what they do because they seek any kind of validation for it, yet they shape the cultures that we identify with. All relevant progress, both individual and societal, comes from people who don’t care for the established worldly order. The future is build by dreamers and visionaries, not by people who confuse the treadmill for a life worth living. You do you.

chii 5y ago
> I think there is nothing irrational about this. it's not irrational. Unless you ignore the lower needs on the Maslow's hierarchy of needs and spend your efforts on the higher needs. The lower needs are basic - sustenance and safety etc. If someone is wealthy enough to meet these needs with time and resources to spare, then it makes a lot of sense to spend the extra resources on the higher needs. But it is irrational to try to fulfil a higher need, when you don't already have the lower needs fulfilled first.
- hans1729 5y ago
  That’s true of course, it comes down to the relative position in maslows model. Maybe I just assumed that the HN-audience is at the top of the pyramid almost by definition, but failed to do the adequate elaboration. Thanks!
- hoseja 5y ago
  And that is why US is spending so much effort making sure the basic needs stay unmet.
  - A4ET8a8uTh0 5y ago

memonkey 5y ago

Is it irrational to care about/for your neighbor? I don't think so.

kxrm 5y ago

I left my last job because it wasn't really going how I wanted it to go. My wife and I have setup our finances such that we can live on a single income. For almost two years I did nothing but tinker on toy projects, personal projects and explore electrical engineering. I certainly found interesting companies along the way to apply for, and took contracting jobs that interested me, but largely I got to just explore. I finally found a job at the beginning of the year that felt right and was interesting enough for me to want to get involved. I have always had the attitude that work should be something you look forward to each day. If you aren't, leave. I have never worried about the consequences of those decisions because financially we are fine and with software engineering opportunities always available, I don't feel a sense of urgency to take the first thing that comes along. I know that not everyone is so privileged to live this way, but with careful financial planning, it's been enough for me. We all need rest, we all need time away. Plan your life according to you or your family's needs, not clients and not companies. We only get one chance at life, why waste it being unhappy in the pursuit of some distant future that may never come.

deleted 5y ago
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ilrwbwrkhv 5y ago

I think there are people for whom jobs are never a natural fit. I am one of those people. Could never stick to a job for very long but could work on my personal project for years. That's why right now I'm unemployed too but I don't ever want to have a boss.

xupybd 5y ago

I'd love to work on something as a passion. Just big enough to keep my mortgage payments going out. I have no idea where to start. Dropping out of the work force sounds scary. I couldn't support my family for very long if I tried. I wish New Zealand paid as well as I hear the US does.

gregplaysguitar 5y ago
fwiw plenty of overseas companies are hiring remotely in NZ these days, some explicitly eg atlassian, gitlab, but anecdotally, many others are willing to hire here even though their job ads say US only. This is pushing salaries up in a big way - not to parity, but a heck of a lot better than it used to be. Worth looking around if your salary hasn’t changed in a few years :)

pjerem 5y ago

> I joined my last company because I was sold on an idea. Holly moly. I’ve been heavily burnt with the same mistake. The lesson I learned is : yes, SE don’t struggle to find work at good condition, but your project will probably be shitty and/or boring and/or deceptive and/or full of tech debt. Now I prefer to focus on the people I work with more than being sold on a project I’ll never own completely anyway.

hef19898 5y ago
You can be burned on people, too. All it takes is one "bad" hire far enough up the food chain and some of the "good" people to quit.
- pjerem 5y ago
  Yes, but my point was to never choose a job based on the project you'll work on or on the product of the company. You WILL be disappointed. I guess the best way to work on a project you'll love is to be a founder. But as an employee, you'll need a looot of luck to work on an interesting project. I'm not saying that it doesn't exists, but rather that they are pretty rare, and you have very few opportunities to discover those from the outside.
  - rmbyrro 5y ago
    As a founder you'll need to deal with all expectations you see manifested here. It's not easy and probably not fun.
  - DiggyJohnson 5y ago
    I work in Aerospace. You are so, so right.

deleted 5y ago

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sjmm1989 5y ago

Honestly... as someone looking at going into freelancing due to how fucking shitty the job market seems to be as of late... I don't suggest getting a day job. Now of course it may depend on the job market you are in. I admit that. But my experience over the past 17 years I have worked now (minus pandemic years I guess...) I have never seen anything as bad as what I am witnessing on a regular basis now for 3 full years now. This isn't even the Pandemic that gets to be the one to catch all the blame for this. These employers are so heinous they have been this way since before 2019. But the pandemic has made it even worse. It's made it so that even employers who were once kinda decent are now even worse. And the cherry on top of this shit sundae? I've found proof that helps prove my point in regards to some of my old jobs. One of them was never a good place to work at in the first place, but it looks kinda nice and seemed better than most. How wrong was I? Well, so wrong that even though my reporting of them to the health board had them fail atrociously, they had already failed atrociously for multiple years now. Going back as far as 2010 if I remember correctly. And this seems to be a repeat occurrence the more I dig into the subject. Bad bosses have bad kitchens. (Yes, I'm food industry.) And bad kitchens tend to be run by bad bosses. There are exceptions to the rule it seems, but generally speaking... if you think you should report a place; you probably should have already done it before you stepped foot into the building. That's how bad it is right now. In Alberta, Canada. Again, there are a lot of good employers too, but I seem to keep missing them. Some I thought were bad though... turned out to be not half bad once they got their heads back on straight though. Hence my mentioning of that even the kinda decent ones earlier. One such employer, might just hire me back on, cause he's having a hard time finding anyone wanting to work in the kitchen. Can't say I blame them, since it's a small kitchen and it can be easy to get annoyed with other people in a small kitchen. Very easy. But none the less, he basically offered me a job back after talking to him about my last paycheck I left there during Wave 3. (And yes, if he were to read this, he would know exactly who I am right now. heh...) Anyways. I'm sure this fellow has his reasons for getting out of freelancing; but to me the freedom of being answerable ultimately to only myself is kind of nice. I don't mind hustling for a decent gig if need be, just so long as they treat me like a freaking human being. And so far... I seem to get that treatment more so from people I am helping doing gig work on the side, than I get from people who should know better than to treat their fellow coworkers like crap. Or their employees. Etc. As a final note: I highly suggest any Albertan's or anyone looking to come to Alberta for any reason at all, to avoid any restaurants that look even remotely dingy or seedy. If that kitchen doesn't sparkle, don't go into it. Yeah, it's that bad. Places that seem respectable on the outside will have some of the unholiest of kitchens on the inside. It's so bad, I'm considering moving back to Saskatchewan... the place I left to get away from BS back there. (Totally partially my fault.)

annie_muss 5y ago

I genuinely wish the author all the best, but I can't help but feel concerned. ADHD might be better named as "novelty addiction". I myself have quit jobs many times when I would have done better to stay put, always hunting for something new. If the author was successful as a freelancer and as an employee then he seems to have the ADHD under control well. That gives me hope that he will find his footing as he takes his next steps.

smordistan 5y ago
Does ADHD affect your ability to hold a committed relationship?
- awill88 5y ago
  I'm no MD, but I would say it's more accurate to describe it as an inability to control impulses, which puts important relationship commitments at risk, romantic or otherwise.

cocoland2 5y ago

I wish the Charan all the best. Can't help but think this resonates so well with me may be because I sailed the same boat for 2 years now. Employers need to manage burnout , some of the smartest guys got so severely burnt out the last 2 years (may be stay at home thing) . To make it worse there was a constant imposter syndrome question that this was purely my productivity problem and did not speak to anyone about it. Now that i met a few in the office (like the real one , not home office) looks like a lot of them are on this roller coaster

ashildr 5y ago

May the squirrels lead your way !-)

DeathArrow 5y ago

>I joined my last company because I was sold on an idea. >But I was unprepared for the aftershock. It was traumatizing. I never had such problems because I joined the companies for money, not because I believed in whatever.

awill88 5y ago

There is a lot to unpack, but I hear you. “Perhaps I am not suited for working in a services company with rapid transitions“ I think you’re right. You read like you’re a people pleaser. I know it because I am too. You, like me, might have a difficult time with having a dynamic yet firm grasp on our purpose in, what is more often than not, textbook Kafkaesque situations; situations we put ourselves in, and we’re accountable for, too. Good luck in your journey of discovery. And you read like you’re also young-middle aged, also like me. So, from one to another, just remember it’s quite the privilege to publish a statement declaring in a public space that you’re “taking a break” from work. I don’t think you’re a trust fund baby, but you know, not everyone who gets you would sympathize with that statement. Maybe here, perhaps. Maybe I’m totally wrong about the author, or maybe I’m sort of over the tone deaf articles I read on here, like we aren’t all so fucking lucky to have these software engineer jobs, the ones that pay. Is it worth your mental health? Of course not. Find a new company, I had to. Best decision I ever made. So if I’m wrong, it’s worth the risk because I hope it drives home the point this article reeks of privilege.

MrDresden 5y ago
> "So, from one to another, just remember it’s quite the privilege to publish a statement declaring in a public space that you’re “taking a break” from work." Why this anger towards the author for doing what he considers to be the best thing for himself? Yes, being able to take a break from work is a privilege. But it isn't one that people should be publicly shamed for when needing to exercise it. Rather we should work towards having that option on the table for as many people on this planet as possible. Worker's rights have been so completely eroded (or never even established) in so many places around the world, that it breeds this kind of sick attitude of turning against those who decide to put them selves or loved ones before the employer and work. I say this as someone who is personally about to take a long sabbatical, with full pay, because of incredible burnout after having gone through a very traumatic period involving a partners cancer treatment. This is only possible because of the incredible strong union that I am a part of.
- paskozdilar 5y ago
  > Why this anger towards the author for doing what he considers to be the best thing for himself? Because most of us don't have the luxury to take a break from work. Honestly, I feel jealousy towards people who can take a break from work. I've been feeling like I'm on a treadmill since my teen years. I am not ashamed of it, though - jealousy is a human feeling and we can't wish it away, we can only control it and not let it interfere with our lives.

leCaptain 5y ago

This is one of the most relatable blog post I have read in recent time. > precedence says I will fall into inaction and misery, and achieve nothing. Complete nothing Exactly what I am afraid of; and this fear is keeping me from quitting my job. At my current job I worked hard to deliver on a "innovative" solution, which would have removed a lot of manual work, but the project got re-prioritized when the manager was fired. I don't find any satisfaction in the current project; earlier I used to look forward to work, now it has become a chore. I have enough savings to last me 6-8 months. But I don't know if I'll be able to bounce back in case I end up wasting all those months.

rmbyrro 5y ago
If you want to take a break and financial runway is your only concern, move to a low-cost area of the world. If you live in a high-cost country, I bet your base minimum spending is around 2500 if you're single, and 5000 for a family of four. You can easily cut their by half in other areas of the world with a good quality of life. Instantly doubles your runway.

imtemplain 5y ago

jrib 5y ago

> I want to spend some time making impractical decisions. I want to build software which solve the problem of making me happy, or at least entertained. I hope you get a chance to do that, at least for a while. I want that too.

Helloyello 5y ago

[dead]

jasfi 5y ago

I quit my job too. I learnt that you should move fast to validate and launch projects. There also needs to be hard benefits for users. Set deadlines to launch your MVP. Some things I have worked on: https://tradecast.one https://tradecast.one Automated crypto trading. The main benefit here is obvious, making profits. https://cxo.industries https://cxo.industries Business tools for startups. This is the project that lots of people were interested in, but not many tried. I don't think I sold the benefits that well, but will take another look at it in the future. https://nexusdev.tools/ https://nexusdev.tools/ Dev tools I built in the process. This was a by-product of tools I wanted for myself. I want to get the first Open Source code drop out next month to validate if others want to build with this. Then perhaps build a commercial/Pro version.

FL33TW00D 5y ago
Any luck so far?
- jasfi 5y ago
  Right now only CxO has launched. Not many people were interested in trying it out. I believe the reason is lack of product/market fit as the existing features aren't enough to hold peoples' attention. However I am planning to implement features that are far more interesting and closer to what people have asked for. I launched to get a working web app out the door in the spirit of shipping early. So it's minimum but perhaps not viable. I want to launch the MVP of TradeCast next month, which will be demo trading only. I'll soon know whether there is product/market fit. But then I was also scratching my own itch when I built it. There has been some interest in Nexus Dev Tools, which is encouraging, despite the admittedly sparse information on the landing page. I plan to release some code next month and will take it from there.