10 ms·
China Eastern flight MU5735 crashes, 132 people were on board
- procombo 5y ago> -30,000 feet per minute Isn't that 548km/h (340mph) and faster than terminal velocity? Nose would be pointed down.
- chinathrow 5y agoNose was pointed down according to some security cam footage (unverified). https://twitter.com/ChinaAvReview/status/1505834279275999236 https://twitter.com/ChinaAvReview/status/1505834279275999236
- News-Dog 5y ago>terminal velocity? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terminal_velocity https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terminal_velocity
- News-Dog 5y agoIf you read the ^^ wikipedia page, you will see the NASA 'Terminal Velocity' url complete with Calculator; https://www.grc.nasa.gov/WWW/K-12/airplane/termv.html https://www.grc.nasa.gov/WWW/K-12/airplane/termv.html
- taneq 5y agoTerminal velocity depends on the object. The terminal velocity of a skydiver is around 200km/h. I'd imagine the terminal velocity of an airliner pointed straight down would be significantly higher even without the engines running. With engines at cruising power they move 700km/h+ in horizontal flight, I'd imagine they could exceed that by a lot in a vertical dive.
- belter 5y agoNASA has this online Terminal Velocity calculator. For drag coeficient typical values for commercial large planes are in the order of 0.05. "Terminal Velocity Calculator": https://www.grc.nasa.gov/www/k-12/airplane/termv.html https://www.grc.nasa.gov/www/k-12/airplane/termv.html
- taneq 5y agoBest rough figure I could find for weight of a loaded 737 is around 40 tons, frontal area I'm guesstimating is roughly a 3m diameter cylinder plus ~0.5m average thickness of the 28m wingspan giving 21m^2? For which the calculator gives 262.8m/s or 943.2km/h.
- belter 5y agoNot far from current preliminary estimates. "China Plane Was Travelling At Speed Of Sound As It Slammed Into Hill": https://www.ndtv.com/world-news/china-jets-fatal-dive-took-it-near-speed-of-sound-before-crash-2837720 https://www.ndtv.com/world-news/china-jets-fatal-dive-took-i... "The Boeing Co. 737-800 was knifing through the air at more than 640 miles (966 kilometers) per hour, and at times may have exceeded 700 mph, according to data from Flightradar24, a website that tracks planes. "The preliminary data indicate it was near the speed of sound," said John Hansman, a Massachusetts Institute of Technology astronautics and aeronautics professor who reviewed Bloomberg's calculation of the jet's speed. "It was coming down steep.""
- Overtonwindow 5y agoSeriously, is there any data on Chinese air crashes or is that unknown?
- mlex 5y agoFlightradar24 of the flight in question: https://www.flightradar24.com/data/aircraft/b-1791#2b367bc1 https://www.flightradar24.com/data/aircraft/b-1791#2b367bc1 Purported footage at the crash site: https://twitter.com/BNONews/status/1505829095204085760 https://twitter.com/BNONews/status/1505829095204085760 https://twitter.com/ChinaAvReview/status/1505815956001501184 https://twitter.com/ChinaAvReview/status/1505815956001501184 https://twitter.com/TheLegateIN/status/1505820283734994947 https://twitter.com/TheLegateIN/status/1505820283734994947
- PennRobotics 5y agoIs there a Twitter client/URL without replies or comments? The ratio of users who jump immediately to ill-founded conspiracies or equally useless/malignant/ideological commentary is astounding to me. I don't want to see/hear/know their thoughts---online or in person.
- belter 5y agoI know it's not what you are looking for, but I can only tolerate Twitter with this https://nitter.net/about https://nitter.net/about
- prawn 5y agoA local news aggregator posted an election announcement this week in my state. No real bias, just the news that the election had been called for one party. Zero nuance in the comments; it was immediately riled up comments at either extreme of the spectrum. I can't imagine what this does mentally to people who read such an unfiltered firehose day after day.
- Markoff 5y agoreplace twitter.com in URL with nitter.net for cleaner layout and easier to ignore comments
- athenot 5y agoTwitterific (iOS) hides comments by default. TweetDeck (desktop) does the same.
- chinathrow 5y agoNot a Max, for those asking. https://www.aeroinside.com/16801/china-eastern-airlines-b738-on-mar-21st-2022-disappeared-from-radar-and-crashed-into-mountains https://www.aeroinside.com/16801/china-eastern-airlines-b738...
- rocqua 5y agoSo, as far as I can tell the model of 737 (the 737-800) is the predecessor of the 737 MAX. I believe this plane did not have the much maligned MCAS system. Nor the engines that affected handling so much that Boeing decided to add MCAS. Edit: Wikipedia article on MCAS confirms. MCAS was introduced because the max is so different from the 737-800
- hughrr 5y agoInteresting. Will wait for report before further speculation but this was the first question that popped into my head.
- jacquesm 5y agoDefinitely not a MAX.
- throwawaymanbot 5y ago
- throwaway0a5e 5y agoBut it's still a Boeing. Which makes it a close enough fit to satisfy the needs of the people who's low effort commentary invariably drowns out any legitimate discourse about events like this.
- News-Dog 5y ago>Wikipedia article China Eastern Airlines Flight 5735 : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/China_Eastern_Airlines_Flight_5735 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/China_Eastern_Airlines_Flight_...
- rocqua 5y agoThe wikipedia article on MCAS: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maneuvering_Characteristics_Augmentation_System https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maneuvering_Characteristics_Au... "The Maneuvering Characteristics Augmentation System (MCAS) flight control law was implemented on the 737 MAX ... make the 737 MAX perform similarly to its immediate predecessor, the 737NG". Noting that the 737-800 is the long variant of the 737NG. In other words, the MCAS wikipedia article states that MCAS was introduced on the 737-MAX so it would handle more like the 737-800. Which cements the conclusion that the 737-800 does not have MCAS.
- ammo1662 5y agoChanged title from 133 to 132, according to the report from state media. It seems a passanger canceled his trip.
- Markoff 5y agofrom what I read he was not let to board, because of issues with his health code app for COVID, if it's truth he can thank God for pandemic
- Zealotux 5y ago>Data from flight trackers indicate that the flight descended at over -30,000 feet per minute Maybe someone well-versed could confirm but isn't that an absolutely insane sink rate even for a crash? I think the plane would have to be in a total dive right?
- jacquesm 5y agoThe security cam footage makes me sick just looking at it. Poor people.
- haunter 5y agoScurity cam footage show that actually what happened, straight down 90 degrees https://twitter.com/ChinaAvReview/status/1505834279275999236 https://twitter.com/ChinaAvReview/status/1505834279275999236 2nd camera footage (dashcam) with total nosedive https://twitter.com/Aviation_NewsTW/status/1505858323827998720 https://twitter.com/Aviation_NewsTW/status/15058583238279987...
- Zealotux 5y agoThanks, total dive indeed, incredible.
- lini 5y agoAlleged footage of the crash shows the plane dropping from the sky like a rock: https://twitter.com/aviationbrk/status/1505835466943352836 https://twitter.com/aviationbrk/status/1505835466943352836
- belter 5y agoThat matches the flight data posted from mlex reference: Everything looks ok until: 6:19 AM UTC with the flight at 29100 ft (aprox 9 Km) as of 6:22 AM UTC it's already at 9.000 ft (aprox 3 Km) dropping at vertical speed of -6,016 fpm Excluding Terrorism, probably catastrophic Horizontal Stabilizer failure due to incorrect maintenance procedures. Edit: Data available from past flights, shows this specific airplane in almost constant daily use, since at least Nov 2021. So it does not look like this was a flight after coming out of any recent major maintenance event.
- anon2020dot00 5y agoIf there is a lesson from the Boeing Max debacle, it is don't jump to conclusion of "incorrect maintenance procedures" like what Boeing did after the first crash with the Indonesian airline. A lot of possibilities like Human/Pilot error, Equipment failure, Engineering design flaw, Freak bird collision accident, etc..
- belter 5y agoI agree with you. Since this is not a MAX just the most likely to cause this vertical drop. But yes, you are correct, lots of other causes need to be considered.
- GekkePrutser 5y agoThey didn't jump to that conclusion. They almost immediately knew it was MCAS but blamed the Indonesians anyway as a distraction. Source: the recent documentary that came out Jumping to conclusions is one thing, deliberate disinformation is another.
- jacquesm 5y ago
- Ftuuky 5y agoI know I'll get downvoted again but here's my resolution for life: will never fly on a Boeing airplane again. Edit: I know the statistics, I just get horrible fears in planes and Boeing is all over the news, hence me avoiding them. To each its own, I guess.
- netsharc 5y agoI'll downvote you for a poor grasp of statistics. Today a few thousand flights on Boeing equipment took off and landed safely around the world. One crash, without any news whether it's Boeing's fault, and you make up rules for the rest of your life. To draw an equivalence, do you still breathe air with an airborne virus running amok?
- belter 5y agoWe need a system where you could only downvote you, if you could post proof of a recent flight on a Boeing. Easier to avoid if you are in Europe.
- Tenoke 5y agoIs it? I fly in Europe often enough (usually the cheapest flight I can find) and I almost always end up on a 737. Ryanair for example has 249 737-800s out of a 258 planes fleet. https://simpleflying.com/ryanair-fleet-2021/ https://simpleflying.com/ryanair-fleet-2021/
- belter 5y agoFor the MAX "How To Avoid Flying The Dreaded Boeing 737-MAX" https://www.godsavethepoints.com/how-to-avoid-flying-the-dreaded-boeing-737-max/ https://www.godsavethepoints.com/how-to-avoid-flying-the-dre... To look for Airbus "These Airlines Are Airbus' Biggest Customers" https://simpleflying.com/airbus-biggest-customers/ https://simpleflying.com/airbus-biggest-customers/
- Symbiote 5y agoWhat's the point in making a generalization based on such a narrow experience? If you're often choosing Ryanair or Norwegian, of course you'll often fly on a Boeing aircraft. EasyJet and Wizz are 100% Airbus.
- gigatexal 5y agoHorrible. I feel so bad for the families of all the victims.
- anon2020dot00 5y agoAirplane accidents are less frequent than car accidents or other modes of transportations but still it is so dramatic when one occurs. Maybe it is because of the mass nature of it, in one stroke, a lot of people are killed compared to a car accident in which in each accident there are fewer parties involved.
- Barrin92 5y agoAlso the (almost) binary nature. To me with car accidents you have at least the illusion of having some control over the situation. That a plane can just drop you out of the sky and you sit there doomed has always fueled my phobia of flying a lot.
- evgen 5y agoDo you have a similar phobia when you are a passenger in an automobile? You have the same lack of control and a much higher risk profile...
- xboxnolifes 5y agoNot quite the same lack of control. You can reach over and grab the wheel.
- chii 5y agoLike how people fear nuclear power because of the accidents. Yet they do not fear coal, because it's so common place and looks unassuming.
- thawaya3113 5y agoI’m not sure what you mean by people not fearing coal. No one wants a coal plant anywhere near them. That’s why pretty much all thermal power plants are located in poorer areas across the globe where the local communities do not have much political power. You won’t find a single coal plant anywhere near where the richer people in a country live.
- pototo666 5y agoAn insightful prediction from Zhihu, which is Quora for China: https://www.zhihu.com/question/517618431/answer/2356205623 https://www.zhihu.com/question/517618431/answer/2356205623 This post is from 2022.02.20. It says that Chinese airlines have showed terrible security risks since COVID, because COVID creates great losses for airline industry. At the end of the post, it says that deadly accidenty is abound to happen. Last air crash from Chinese airlines was 2010. The crashed site is not far away from my hometown. RIP.
- throwmeariver1 5y agohttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Correlation_does_not_imply_causation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Correlation_does_not_imply_cau...
- 5m17h 5y agoZhihu is delete the links
- schrectacular 5y agoPage is gone :( Would love to have read it though, thanks for sharing.
- pototo666 5y agoAs expected. There is screenshot left. https://i.redd.it/vlj0wyw9apo81.jpg https://i.redd.it/vlj0wyw9apo81.jpg
- mrtksn 5y agoSo, I think, the reason people are anxious about this particular crash is because the flight trajectory resembles the trajectories of 737-MAX crashes. Although, this is not an MAX but 800 version of the 737, I think the first glance similarities are eere. However, there's no way the reasons are the same since that version of the plane doesn't have the MCAS system that caused the crashes. My bet is on some horrible maintenance mistake making the vertical stabiliser inoperable or a human factor(terrorist attack or pilot suicide). I will be surprised if it turns out to be Boeing's fault as this model is extremely popular and has showed not tendency to nosedive(unlike the MAX).
- Markoff 5y agono, it doesn't resemble MAX crashes which were under 45 degree descent, this was almost vertical 90 degrees judging by two unverified videos available
- mrtksn 5y agoHere is the flight data: https://twitter.com/flightradar24/status/1505863117343014916/photo/3 https://twitter.com/flightradar24/status/1505863117343014916... The crash video only shows the last 1-2 seconds but in reality the plane seems to plunge spontaneously, then recover a bit and climb and finally plunge again. It's not identical(this plane doesn't have MCAS) but it tells a similar story where the plane nosedives, recovers a bit and nosedives again - which is quite similar to the MCAS situations. I would say, the primary difference is that MCAS crashes happened during take off, on this one during a cruise.
- mrtksn 5y ago>vertical stabiliser I meant horizontal stabiliser
- asdf9876 5y agoHow about if it was to do with high angle of attack mode of speed trim system on 737 800? Don't think anyone trained on that, mind you they never was told about MCAS either... Either catastrophic failure which is highly unlikely, or something pushed nose down rapidly like on the Max, ie nose down trim. Actually come to think of it, look into the similarities with the Fly Dubai crash! They said the pilot held the trim forwards... yeah right!
- aaron695 5y ago
- Overtonwindow 5y agoDoes China generally release information on aviation crashes? I've wondered how many accidents, crashes, and incursions they've really had.
- Arubis 5y agoMetacommentary: I’m seeing _a lot_ more attacks on the so-called average HN user, on the HN system, etc. here than I’ve noticed in any other thread recently. What’s up with that?
- jacquesm 5y agoSign of the times, unfortunately.
- Arubis 5y agoI hope you’re right, and that it’s not coordinated.
- jacquesm 5y agoInteresting, yes, this is something I'm fairly convinced of. I posted an Ask HN on this theme which - funny enough - got flagged: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30670690 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30670690
- Arubis 5y agoHeh, go figure. And my original question here is downvoted enough here to be sufficiently invisible. I don’t have sufficient karma to unflag your post, but I appreciate the pointer; it at least makes for good reading.
- lizardactivist 5y ago
- thedudeabides5 5y agoOk, did anyone find out what happened here?