4 ms·

>"If our systems are unable to establish that a viewer is above the age of 18, we will request that they provide a valid ID or credit card to verify their age.”

>"If our systems are unable to establish that a viewer is above the age of 18, we will request that they provide a valid ID or credit card to verify their age.” I don't think Google is complaining too much. Especially if it gives them an excuse to collect credit card data (reducing a significant amount of friction when they sell YouTube premium / google drive subscriptions).

whimsicalism 5y ago
Not sure how you concluded that from this quote
- RobertMiller 5y ago
  A simple "the law requires us to" somewhere in that quote would have gone a long way to convey displeasure at their arm being twisted. But nothing in that quote suggests any arm twisting, and why should google of all corporations be given the benefit of the doubt? They look like eager and willing collaborators.
  - emteycz 5y ago
    So why they didn't try to require ID for all the previous years until laws required it?
    - syshum 5y ago
      Large Corporations will often have government enact laws they know would be unpopular policies for a variety of reasons... Many times companies will even publicly opposes the very laws they actually support behind the scenes. Not saying that is the case here, but it pretty common for corporations to use government as their tool
    - RobertMiller 5y ago
      If they want us to believe they're displeased at this requirement, why don't they say so? Google has certainly complained and protested about other laws before. > In response to multiple complaints we received under the US Digital Millennium Copyright Act, we have removed 15 results from this page. If you wish, you may read the DMCA complaints that caused the removals at LumenDatabase.org:
      - MiroF 5y ago
        You're comparing a quote from an article clearly being written in the context of this Australian law to the actual quote from Google's implementation of DMCa law. There is nothing in your quote indicating they are "protesting" DMCA law. Here is the full quote. > Over the coming month, we will also be introducing a new age assurance step on YouTube and Google Play. This added step is informed by the Australian Online Safety (Restricted Access Systems) Declaration, which requires platforms to take reasonable steps to confirm users are adults in order to access content that is potentially inappropriate for viewers under 18. > This is in line with the actions we took in the European Union in response to the Audiovisual Media Services Directive (AVMSD). > As part of this process some Australian users may be asked to provide additional proof of age when attempting to watch mature content on YouTube or downloading content on Google Play. If our systems are unable to establish that a viewer is above the age of 18, we will request that they provide a valid ID or credit card to verify their age. We’ve built our age-verification process in keeping with Google’s Privacy and Security Principles. Pulling out a quote and then saying "they don't mention the law", when they actually do mention the law a few lines above is frankly... a bad objection.
        RobertMiller 5y ago
        They aren't required to disclose any DMCA removals, but choose to anyway, citing the law by name. Pointing out that a law is requiring them to do something is the least anybody can do if they object to that law's requirements. The omission of such a statement is sufficient evidence to conclude they are willing collaborators. A tech corporation like Google does not deserve the benefit of the doubt anyway.
        MiroF 5y ago
        Are you still not following that this "omission" is something you've entirely made up in your own mind by selectively copying one quote from an entire article?
        RobertMiller 5y ago
lern_too_spel 5y ago
Google could have required people to enter credit card details to download apps at all on their phones, following the precedent Apple had already set. That hasn't happened.
- reaperducer 5y ago
  following the precedent Apple had already set This is false. You don't need to give Apple a credit card to download apps. You do need an iTunes account, which can be created without a credit card (I have two with no cards attached). If you only download free apps, you're good. You can fund the account with PayPal or gift cards if you choose to download paid apps. Try to refrain from making stuff up in your defense of Google.
  - umbauk 5y ago
    I set up my 9 year old's apple watch yesterday. I had to enter my credit card details to add it to my Family. I didn't have to do this when linking my child's fitbit.
  - lern_too_spel 5y ago
    https://discussions.apple.com/thread/251793338 https://discussions.apple.com/thread/251793338 no longer requires a credit card after iOS 6 but is still heavy on dark patterns. A credit card isn't even asked for when creating a Google account at all. My point is that Apple either requires or tricks you into giving a credit card to use Apple services, and the only reason this is a big issue for Google is that many Google accounts don't have a credit card already.
- citizenpaul 5y ago
  They don't do that out of benevolence. The reality is they know a huge portion of their customer base are already on the lower income side. If required that info upfront they would lose millions of customers. Never underestimate how many people live on the fringes of society. No bank account, no credit cards, no offical address. Also worth remembering that selling you stuff is not how google makes most of their money. The sell you as a product. The more people they have on their system the more money they make even if they are not buying anything. I've had an android phone for many years without ever putting in a CC to the play store. I've bought apps though through Fdroid though.
cmckn 5y ago
Does google actually save this payment information for use in subsequent transactions? Or is it just used as part of the age verification process?
- cute_boi 5y ago
  Should we even guess? Google is already trying hard to store payment information filled in form.
  - seanmcdirmid 5y ago
    Chrome will save credit card data on request, it’s incredibly convenient if you do a lot of online food ordering.
    - Drdrdrq 5y ago
      Convenience is often the biggest enemy of privacy.
      - seanmcdirmid 5y ago
        The current system where we can choose between security and convenience is good enough for me. I loath those who would take that choice away from me.
        Drdrdrq 5y ago
        First of all, I said privacy, not security. Huge difference. That aside, I am not advocating for less choice, merely observing that in many cases users willingly give up their privacy (or other rights) for convenience. Your reaction to my observation actually proves my point.
    - cute_boi 5y ago
      Yes "Google seems to have signed me up for Google Pay without asking" https://twitter.com/paulg/status/1504079288051589120 https://twitter.com/paulg/status/1504079288051589120 This was on hacker news.
bushbaba 5y ago
Also lets them easily join in credit card purchases to user info.
jimmaswell 5y ago
I had no idea you could actually use a credit card to verify age. I thought that was nothing but a scam employed by fraudulent cam/hookup sites and catfishers. Google probably shouldn't train people that this is a normal thing to do.
- idiotsecant 5y ago
  Does a credit card in fact verify age? Anyone at all can go buy a prepaid card at the grocery store, right?
  - adventured 5y ago
    > Does a credit card in fact verify age? Anyone at all can go buy a prepaid card at the grocery store, right? A prepaid card isn't a credit card. Payment processors can tell the difference between card types. You have to be 18 or older to get a credit card issued in your name (although you can add an underage authorized user to your card). And there are now other requirements needed if you're under 21 in the US, such as proof of income or a cosigner. A prepaid card is also not a debit card (debit cards are attached to a bank account). To get a debit card you must be either 18 or have a legal guardian who is at least 18 on the account.
    - notRobot 5y ago
      > To get a debit card you must be either 18 or have a legal guardian who is at least 18 on the account. I don't about the US or Australia, but this is definitely not true everywhere. I know for a fact that in some countries children as young as 13 can have bank accounts and debit cards that are not linked to a guardian.
    - Symbiote 5y ago
      > To get a debit card you must be either 18 or have a legal guardian who is at least 18 on the account. Not necessarily. You can be issued a debit card from age 11 in the UK, although it will only do online transactions to prevent the account going overdrawn. Allowing a parent/guardian control of the account is optional. https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/banking/cards-for-under-18s/#kidsaccounts https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/banking/cards-for-under-18...
MomoXenosaga 5y ago
The credit-card as a viable ID is hilarious. I don't have a CC nor do I want one. So I just used someone else's so that Google doesn't bitch when I want to watch an 18 plus video. I do have a passport that everyone is legally required to have in this country but trying to upload a picture of that was a fucking nightmare so I said fuck it take these numbers you clowns. Now if I can do this I'm sure every kid on the planet can just take their mom's CC so what is the point of this law anyway?
BiteCode_dev 5y ago
Which is not a good proof. You can use one from somebody else, it doesn't prove that it's yours. Only that you have access to it. As long as you don't make any paiement, I suppose you will be fine.

whimsicalism 5y ago

Not sure how you concluded that from this quote

RobertMiller 5y ago
A simple "the law requires us to" somewhere in that quote would have gone a long way to convey displeasure at their arm being twisted. But nothing in that quote suggests any arm twisting, and why should google of all corporations be given the benefit of the doubt? They look like eager and willing collaborators.
- emteycz 5y ago
  So why they didn't try to require ID for all the previous years until laws required it?
  - syshum 5y ago
    Large Corporations will often have government enact laws they know would be unpopular policies for a variety of reasons... Many times companies will even publicly opposes the very laws they actually support behind the scenes. Not saying that is the case here, but it pretty common for corporations to use government as their tool
  - RobertMiller 5y ago
    If they want us to believe they're displeased at this requirement, why don't they say so? Google has certainly complained and protested about other laws before. > In response to multiple complaints we received under the US Digital Millennium Copyright Act, we have removed 15 results from this page. If you wish, you may read the DMCA complaints that caused the removals at LumenDatabase.org:
    - MiroF 5y ago
      You're comparing a quote from an article clearly being written in the context of this Australian law to the actual quote from Google's implementation of DMCa law. There is nothing in your quote indicating they are "protesting" DMCA law. Here is the full quote. > Over the coming month, we will also be introducing a new age assurance step on YouTube and Google Play. This added step is informed by the Australian Online Safety (Restricted Access Systems) Declaration, which requires platforms to take reasonable steps to confirm users are adults in order to access content that is potentially inappropriate for viewers under 18. > This is in line with the actions we took in the European Union in response to the Audiovisual Media Services Directive (AVMSD). > As part of this process some Australian users may be asked to provide additional proof of age when attempting to watch mature content on YouTube or downloading content on Google Play. If our systems are unable to establish that a viewer is above the age of 18, we will request that they provide a valid ID or credit card to verify their age. We’ve built our age-verification process in keeping with Google’s Privacy and Security Principles. Pulling out a quote and then saying "they don't mention the law", when they actually do mention the law a few lines above is frankly... a bad objection.
      - RobertMiller 5y ago
        They aren't required to disclose any DMCA removals, but choose to anyway, citing the law by name. Pointing out that a law is requiring them to do something is the least anybody can do if they object to that law's requirements. The omission of such a statement is sufficient evidence to conclude they are willing collaborators. A tech corporation like Google does not deserve the benefit of the doubt anyway.
        MiroF 5y ago
        Are you still not following that this "omission" is something you've entirely made up in your own mind by selectively copying one quote from an entire article?
        RobertMiller 5y ago

lern_too_spel 5y ago

Google could have required people to enter credit card details to download apps at all on their phones, following the precedent Apple had already set. That hasn't happened.

reaperducer 5y ago
following the precedent Apple had already set This is false. You don't need to give Apple a credit card to download apps. You do need an iTunes account, which can be created without a credit card (I have two with no cards attached). If you only download free apps, you're good. You can fund the account with PayPal or gift cards if you choose to download paid apps. Try to refrain from making stuff up in your defense of Google.
- umbauk 5y ago
  I set up my 9 year old's apple watch yesterday. I had to enter my credit card details to add it to my Family. I didn't have to do this when linking my child's fitbit.
- lern_too_spel 5y ago
  https://discussions.apple.com/thread/251793338 https://discussions.apple.com/thread/251793338 no longer requires a credit card after iOS 6 but is still heavy on dark patterns. A credit card isn't even asked for when creating a Google account at all. My point is that Apple either requires or tricks you into giving a credit card to use Apple services, and the only reason this is a big issue for Google is that many Google accounts don't have a credit card already.
citizenpaul 5y ago
They don't do that out of benevolence. The reality is they know a huge portion of their customer base are already on the lower income side. If required that info upfront they would lose millions of customers. Never underestimate how many people live on the fringes of society. No bank account, no credit cards, no offical address. Also worth remembering that selling you stuff is not how google makes most of their money. The sell you as a product. The more people they have on their system the more money they make even if they are not buying anything. I've had an android phone for many years without ever putting in a CC to the play store. I've bought apps though through Fdroid though.

cmckn 5y ago

Does google actually save this payment information for use in subsequent transactions? Or is it just used as part of the age verification process?

cute_boi 5y ago
Should we even guess? Google is already trying hard to store payment information filled in form.
- seanmcdirmid 5y ago
  Chrome will save credit card data on request, it’s incredibly convenient if you do a lot of online food ordering.
  - Drdrdrq 5y ago
    Convenience is often the biggest enemy of privacy.
    - seanmcdirmid 5y ago
      The current system where we can choose between security and convenience is good enough for me. I loath those who would take that choice away from me.
      - Drdrdrq 5y ago
        First of all, I said privacy, not security. Huge difference. That aside, I am not advocating for less choice, merely observing that in many cases users willingly give up their privacy (or other rights) for convenience. Your reaction to my observation actually proves my point.
  - cute_boi 5y ago
    Yes "Google seems to have signed me up for Google Pay without asking" https://twitter.com/paulg/status/1504079288051589120 https://twitter.com/paulg/status/1504079288051589120 This was on hacker news.

bushbaba 5y ago

Also lets them easily join in credit card purchases to user info.

jimmaswell 5y ago

I had no idea you could actually use a credit card to verify age. I thought that was nothing but a scam employed by fraudulent cam/hookup sites and catfishers. Google probably shouldn't train people that this is a normal thing to do.

idiotsecant 5y ago
Does a credit card in fact verify age? Anyone at all can go buy a prepaid card at the grocery store, right?
- adventured 5y ago
  > Does a credit card in fact verify age? Anyone at all can go buy a prepaid card at the grocery store, right? A prepaid card isn't a credit card. Payment processors can tell the difference between card types. You have to be 18 or older to get a credit card issued in your name (although you can add an underage authorized user to your card). And there are now other requirements needed if you're under 21 in the US, such as proof of income or a cosigner. A prepaid card is also not a debit card (debit cards are attached to a bank account). To get a debit card you must be either 18 or have a legal guardian who is at least 18 on the account.
  - notRobot 5y ago
    > To get a debit card you must be either 18 or have a legal guardian who is at least 18 on the account. I don't about the US or Australia, but this is definitely not true everywhere. I know for a fact that in some countries children as young as 13 can have bank accounts and debit cards that are not linked to a guardian.
  - Symbiote 5y ago
    > To get a debit card you must be either 18 or have a legal guardian who is at least 18 on the account. Not necessarily. You can be issued a debit card from age 11 in the UK, although it will only do online transactions to prevent the account going overdrawn. Allowing a parent/guardian control of the account is optional. https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/banking/cards-for-under-18s/#kidsaccounts https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/banking/cards-for-under-18...

MomoXenosaga 5y ago

The credit-card as a viable ID is hilarious. I don't have a CC nor do I want one. So I just used someone else's so that Google doesn't bitch when I want to watch an 18 plus video. I do have a passport that everyone is legally required to have in this country but trying to upload a picture of that was a fucking nightmare so I said fuck it take these numbers you clowns. Now if I can do this I'm sure every kid on the planet can just take their mom's CC so what is the point of this law anyway?

BiteCode_dev 5y ago

Which is not a good proof. You can use one from somebody else, it doesn't prove that it's yours. Only that you have access to it. As long as you don't make any paiement, I suppose you will be fine.