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my dog exhibits insecurity (as discussed in the article) mostly in relation to me, as well as some strangers who she deems to be sketchy in some way. the first

my dog exhibits insecurity (as discussed in the article) mostly in relation to me, as well as some strangers who she deems to be sketchy in some way. the first months were spent working through severe anxiety (and cleaning up overnight fear diarrhea) while slowly building trust at home. she was hyper-sensitive to my moods and movements, and would hyperventilate if she thought i was even slightly upset with her. this is why i think she was probably abused by her previous caretaker(s). thankfully, she's gotten much better, and now enjoys a mostly carefree and social dog life, though she's still vigilant and standoffish at times with both humans and other dogs. i can definitely see parallels to human behaviors, and even use techniques you might use with people to build up her confidence (as well as curb unwanted behavior). she's been great overall, and i wouldn't trade her for the world.

teakettle42 5y ago
Overnight nervous diarrhea? In your home? Tons of effort to keep that from happening, and to have a pet that doesn’t destroy your home? I really don’t understand dog ownership.
- maccard 5y ago
  > Tons of effort to keep that from happening, and to have a pet that doesn’t destroy your home? It's their home too. OP's situation was a rescue dog from a likely abusive previous home. There are often pets available for people who are not able to handle that situation; My dog peed on the rug occasionally for about 3 weeks, and pooped indoors twice, and it's not happened again in 3 years. To pull the "children" card, children make huge messes, cannot be unattended or unsupervised for years, destroy homes, and yet that's not seen as "burdensome"
  - ako 5y ago
    Children are seen as burdensome, but as most parents will say: "It's all worth it, you get so much in return"... I think what parent was really asking is "why bother having a dog at all"?
    - jthrowsitaway 5y ago
      Companionship and undying loyalty. They are fun to have around.
      - teakettle42 5y ago
        It’s undying physical and emotional dependence, not loyalty. That said, maybe that’s fun for you; everyone has their own preferences.
        thih9 5y ago
        This comment seems needlessly condescending. It looks like the concept of dog ownership is making you worried or puzzled? In the past I also didn’t get dog ownership and now it makes sense to me, if that helps. I’m not saying that it should make sense to you (see also my earlier comment [1]). [1]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30741072 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30741072
        teakettle42 5y ago
        I think the relationship is itself pathological, and it’s burdensome to the rest of us that have to deal with modern codependent dog owners bringing their ill-behaved pet everywhere.
        srean 5y ago
        As opposed to a cohort of self-centered, relationship handicapped, intolerant jerks prone to narrow mindedness and rude rants on discussion forums and elsewhere, I know which one I would prefer to have for a harmonious society and whom I find more offensive.
        teakettle42 5y ago
        > self-centered, relationship handicapped, intolerant jerks prone to narrow mindedness and rude rants on discussion forums and elsewhere You could easily be describing the dog owners here who were just confronted with the fact that their emotional codependency with a dirty animal — and tendency to replace healthy human relationships, foisting their pet onto others in public, at restaurants, on trails, et al — is not, in fact, a behavior subject to universal acclaim.
  - teakettle42 5y ago
    > It's their home too. It’s not. You’re choosing to allow a very dirty animal to inhabit your home. There’s a difference. > To pull the "children" card … Children are seen as burdensome, but they are also seen as human, and eventually, will be human adults. They also tend to not do things like eat your furniture, can be more regularly bathed, and smell a lot better, too. Oh, and they’re humans. Did I mention that already? If a non-human animal is slotting itself into our biological drive to parent, that’s a parasite.
    - caleb-allen 5y ago
      Jeez, what's with the hate? Why do you have such a problem with somebody else caring about an animal as if it were family?
    - rawTruthHurts 5y ago
      > It’s not. It is. > Children are seen as burdensome Children are burdensome full stop. They eat my money, which hurts me more than if they chewed on the furniture. > Oh, and they’re humans. Yes, they are. The waste of resources and pollution they imply is massive compared to dogs. But why caring about the environment, there's a lot of everything for everyone laying around, isn't it. > non-human animal is slotting itself He hasn't. He roams around freely. > You’re choosing to allow a very dirty animal Yes it's my choice and it gets as dirty as my kid does. Guess what, they're animals. Did you notice already? They're animals like you.
    - maccard 5y ago
      > It’s not. You’re choosing to allow a very dirty animal to inhabit your home. There’s a difference. My home with a dog is much cleaner than most of my friends with toddlers. My dog keeps herself _mostly_ clean and groomed, my friends kids do _not_. > They also tend to not do things like eat your furniture, can be more regularly bathed, and smell a lot better, too. Not all dogs chew destructively, and most that do tend to have other behavioural issues. Are you really claiming that children _aren't_ destructive to your home? My parents tell the story of the time I decided that the TV character was thirsty so I poured a soda into the VCR over the CRT TV and destroyed both of them. Dogs don't sweat, so they dont' _need_ to be bathed as regularly. Sure she rolls around in crap in the park every few days and gets hosed down in the bath, but that's about the extent of it really. > Oh, and they’re humans. Did I mention that already? Children being human doesn't mean that dogs don't deserve to coexist with us.
- replomipl 5y ago
  That's like hearing about someone who adopted an incontinent, abused child from foster care and loudly proclaiming how you don't understand child-rearing for the same reasons.
- thih9 5y ago
  Nothing wrong with you not understanding dog ownership; it requires a passion. Note that while you sacrifice something, you also get something in exchange. I guess it’s similar to how some people don’t want to have kids or start a company; nothing wrong with that either.
- amelius 5y ago
  Well, if you anthropomorphize your dog, it's like having a little human in the house.
  - colechristensen 5y ago
    And you shouldn’t. I love dogs, I hate people and their dogs, mostly. They treat dogs like funny looking needy people instead of respecting them for what they are, animals with animal thoughts, animal feelings, and animal behaviors.
    - paraph1n 5y ago
      > animals with animal thoughts, animal feelings, and animal behaviors. If you pay close attention, you'll realize that's exactly what humans are, too.
- gkop 5y ago
  Not the norm
- clairity 5y ago
  it was stressful for the first few weeks, but that's adoption, even with other humans. she's much better, and it was a rewarding experience for me, so win-win in my book. she didn't want to poop uncontrollably, and knew it was 'bad', but she couldn't help it until she could get her own fear and anxiety under control. human babies poop uncontrollably too, for much longer even. eventually i learned to put pee pads everywhere in her (initial) sleeping area, and just threw out the ones that were soiled in the morning. it wasn't that big of a deal, and certainly didn't "destroy" anything.
  - teakettle42 5y ago
    I find the comparisons with human babies odd. They’re not comparable. If an animal evolves to exploit the parenting drive of a host species, that’s called a parasite. There’s a reason why during/post-pregnant women have a strong (but not universal) tendency to reject the family dog(s).
- doublerabbit 5y ago
  Do you have any kids? It's not much of a difference.
- leetrout 5y ago
  I was in a similar situation. My vet saw me on day 3 with my rescue and he warned me it would be months to years to correct. He advised me as a first time owner to return the dog and I did. Glad OP was a better person and had the time, patience and love to share.
  - k8sToGo 5y ago
    Some dogs are easier than others. Don't worry about it. I also returned a dog where it just didn't work. Got a different one later and we bonded very well.
- markdown 5y ago
  > I really don’t understand dog ownership. Dogs are wonderful. What I don't understand is letting them into your home. Disgusting. Some people even let them on their beds, which is truly bonkers. Why anyone would let naked dog butt, complete with poopy fur, onto their bed, is beyond understanding.
  - pdonis 5y ago
    > What I don't understand is letting them into your home. Then of course you wouldn't do it, and nobody is saying you should. But other people who have their dogs in their homes understand it just fine. Live and let live.
    - markdown 5y ago
      Absolutely!
  - Auracle 5y ago
    If your dog, inside or outside dog, has a poopy butt you should do something about it. Some breeds need trims back there from time to time. I personally don’t understand people that get breeds that shed like crazy as indoor dogs, or people that get large dogs and keep them cooped up all day.
  - k8sToGo 5y ago
    Last time I checked the dog butt is covered in fur. Also dogs have a prolapsed anus... Where are you from that dogs are not seen as family members? Also what about children? They are not exactly known to be clean either.
    - markdown 5y ago
      > Where are you from that dogs are not seen as family members? Where did you get that idea? My dogs absolutely are members of the family. They don't get to live in my house though, just like the dozens of other relatives I have who don't share my roof. > Also what about children? They are not exactly known to be clean either. Children don't enter the house with dirty feet. They don't lie in the dirt outside and then come and nap on the couch. They wipe their butts and shower twice a day. Most dogs live free, out in the open. I'd bet only a small proportion of the worlds dogs are kept indoors.
- stbenjam 5y ago
  I guess your problem is seeing it as ownership instead of companionship.
  - pessimizer 5y ago
    It's definitely ownership. They didn't choose to be with you and can't choose to leave, and you have the power of life and death over them.
    - erdos4d 5y ago
      > They didn't choose to be with you and can't choose to leave, and you have the power of life and death over them. This is an "interesting" mentality I see a lot. Ever dog I ever had was a stray and could leave if they wanted to. I don't really get people who think this way, but it seems really prevalent.
      - refurb 5y ago
        I mean a raccoon will keep coming to my house if I feed it, does that mean we have companionship?
        smt88 5y ago
        It is bizarre that you think the human/dog relationship is analogous to one with a raccoon. You seem to disagree with the entire concept of domestication, which means you disagree with mountains of scientific facts along with billions of people's personal experiences with pets.
        refurb 5y ago
        You can domesticate raccoons. My point is - an animal that sticks around is not necessarily a companion. It could just see you as a reliable source of food.
        5y ago
djsavvy 5y ago
How did you work through your dog’s anxiety and build trust with her?
- Auracle 5y ago
  I also have a rescue that acted like she might have been abused. She was really afraid of men in particular but not women. It just took time. She’s still a little more shy around men 10 years later but it’s of no consequence. Once she realized how much we cared for her she turned around quickly.
- clairity 5y ago
  lots of love, playful interaction, encouragement... and chicken treats. but it was mostly time, i'd say. she needed to know for herself that her environment, and most importantly i, was safe. even though she was scared, she was a willing participant, which was crucial (she was always very attentive, like she was always trying very hard to understand what was going on). sometimes, it was just ignoring her while i did my usual activities. other times, it was exhibiting positive attention on her, and minimizing opportunities for the negative. i also worked on desensitizing her to certain triggers that would bring out fear aggression (which was rare, but as such, surprising when it happened), like reaching for her head, by doing it over and over at spontaneous moments to show her that it wasn't dangerous to her (and giving her treats for good behavior, and a tiny, gentle scolding for bad). mind you, she was a mild case as far as all this goes, but it still required focused and prolonged attention.
- technothrasher 5y ago
  We had our pup on an SSRI for about eight months when she was a puppy. We got her at three months old and she had been born in rescue. So we knew her history from birth and knew she wasn't abused, she was just a naturally very anxiety prone dog. After a month of being with us and just not getting over her anxiety (she was basically miserable whenever any humans were around) the vet suggested the drugs. They worked wonders, and after she'd grown a bit and come to accept us as "her people", we weened her off the drugs and all went well. At four years old, she's still an anxious dog, and always will be, but she's content in her home life now and likes to be with us. She's still very wary of strangers, and really doesn't like being out in more human dense areas, but it's easy enough to keep her activities to things she likes. And she's decided that my mom and her animals are the best thing on the planet, so she gets lots of visits to "Gramma's farm".

teakettle42 5y ago

Overnight nervous diarrhea? In your home? Tons of effort to keep that from happening, and to have a pet that doesn’t destroy your home? I really don’t understand dog ownership.

maccard 5y ago
> Tons of effort to keep that from happening, and to have a pet that doesn’t destroy your home? It's their home too. OP's situation was a rescue dog from a likely abusive previous home. There are often pets available for people who are not able to handle that situation; My dog peed on the rug occasionally for about 3 weeks, and pooped indoors twice, and it's not happened again in 3 years. To pull the "children" card, children make huge messes, cannot be unattended or unsupervised for years, destroy homes, and yet that's not seen as "burdensome"
- ako 5y ago
  Children are seen as burdensome, but as most parents will say: "It's all worth it, you get so much in return"... I think what parent was really asking is "why bother having a dog at all"?
  - jthrowsitaway 5y ago
    Companionship and undying loyalty. They are fun to have around.
    - teakettle42 5y ago
      It’s undying physical and emotional dependence, not loyalty. That said, maybe that’s fun for you; everyone has their own preferences.
      - thih9 5y ago
        This comment seems needlessly condescending. It looks like the concept of dog ownership is making you worried or puzzled? In the past I also didn’t get dog ownership and now it makes sense to me, if that helps. I’m not saying that it should make sense to you (see also my earlier comment [1]). [1]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30741072 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30741072
        teakettle42 5y ago
        I think the relationship is itself pathological, and it’s burdensome to the rest of us that have to deal with modern codependent dog owners bringing their ill-behaved pet everywhere.
        srean 5y ago
        As opposed to a cohort of self-centered, relationship handicapped, intolerant jerks prone to narrow mindedness and rude rants on discussion forums and elsewhere, I know which one I would prefer to have for a harmonious society and whom I find more offensive.
        teakettle42 5y ago
        > self-centered, relationship handicapped, intolerant jerks prone to narrow mindedness and rude rants on discussion forums and elsewhere You could easily be describing the dog owners here who were just confronted with the fact that their emotional codependency with a dirty animal — and tendency to replace healthy human relationships, foisting their pet onto others in public, at restaurants, on trails, et al — is not, in fact, a behavior subject to universal acclaim.
- teakettle42 5y ago
  > It's their home too. It’s not. You’re choosing to allow a very dirty animal to inhabit your home. There’s a difference. > To pull the "children" card … Children are seen as burdensome, but they are also seen as human, and eventually, will be human adults. They also tend to not do things like eat your furniture, can be more regularly bathed, and smell a lot better, too. Oh, and they’re humans. Did I mention that already? If a non-human animal is slotting itself into our biological drive to parent, that’s a parasite.
  - caleb-allen 5y ago
    Jeez, what's with the hate? Why do you have such a problem with somebody else caring about an animal as if it were family?
  - rawTruthHurts 5y ago
    > It’s not. It is. > Children are seen as burdensome Children are burdensome full stop. They eat my money, which hurts me more than if they chewed on the furniture. > Oh, and they’re humans. Yes, they are. The waste of resources and pollution they imply is massive compared to dogs. But why caring about the environment, there's a lot of everything for everyone laying around, isn't it. > non-human animal is slotting itself He hasn't. He roams around freely. > You’re choosing to allow a very dirty animal Yes it's my choice and it gets as dirty as my kid does. Guess what, they're animals. Did you notice already? They're animals like you.
  - maccard 5y ago
    > It’s not. You’re choosing to allow a very dirty animal to inhabit your home. There’s a difference. My home with a dog is much cleaner than most of my friends with toddlers. My dog keeps herself _mostly_ clean and groomed, my friends kids do _not_. > They also tend to not do things like eat your furniture, can be more regularly bathed, and smell a lot better, too. Not all dogs chew destructively, and most that do tend to have other behavioural issues. Are you really claiming that children _aren't_ destructive to your home? My parents tell the story of the time I decided that the TV character was thirsty so I poured a soda into the VCR over the CRT TV and destroyed both of them. Dogs don't sweat, so they dont' _need_ to be bathed as regularly. Sure she rolls around in crap in the park every few days and gets hosed down in the bath, but that's about the extent of it really. > Oh, and they’re humans. Did I mention that already? Children being human doesn't mean that dogs don't deserve to coexist with us.
replomipl 5y ago
That's like hearing about someone who adopted an incontinent, abused child from foster care and loudly proclaiming how you don't understand child-rearing for the same reasons.
thih9 5y ago
Nothing wrong with you not understanding dog ownership; it requires a passion. Note that while you sacrifice something, you also get something in exchange. I guess it’s similar to how some people don’t want to have kids or start a company; nothing wrong with that either.
amelius 5y ago
Well, if you anthropomorphize your dog, it's like having a little human in the house.
- colechristensen 5y ago
  And you shouldn’t. I love dogs, I hate people and their dogs, mostly. They treat dogs like funny looking needy people instead of respecting them for what they are, animals with animal thoughts, animal feelings, and animal behaviors.
  - paraph1n 5y ago
    > animals with animal thoughts, animal feelings, and animal behaviors. If you pay close attention, you'll realize that's exactly what humans are, too.
gkop 5y ago
Not the norm
clairity 5y ago
it was stressful for the first few weeks, but that's adoption, even with other humans. she's much better, and it was a rewarding experience for me, so win-win in my book. she didn't want to poop uncontrollably, and knew it was 'bad', but she couldn't help it until she could get her own fear and anxiety under control. human babies poop uncontrollably too, for much longer even. eventually i learned to put pee pads everywhere in her (initial) sleeping area, and just threw out the ones that were soiled in the morning. it wasn't that big of a deal, and certainly didn't "destroy" anything.
- teakettle42 5y ago
  I find the comparisons with human babies odd. They’re not comparable. If an animal evolves to exploit the parenting drive of a host species, that’s called a parasite. There’s a reason why during/post-pregnant women have a strong (but not universal) tendency to reject the family dog(s).
doublerabbit 5y ago
Do you have any kids? It's not much of a difference.
leetrout 5y ago
I was in a similar situation. My vet saw me on day 3 with my rescue and he warned me it would be months to years to correct. He advised me as a first time owner to return the dog and I did. Glad OP was a better person and had the time, patience and love to share.
- k8sToGo 5y ago
  Some dogs are easier than others. Don't worry about it. I also returned a dog where it just didn't work. Got a different one later and we bonded very well.
markdown 5y ago
> I really don’t understand dog ownership. Dogs are wonderful. What I don't understand is letting them into your home. Disgusting. Some people even let them on their beds, which is truly bonkers. Why anyone would let naked dog butt, complete with poopy fur, onto their bed, is beyond understanding.
- pdonis 5y ago
  > What I don't understand is letting them into your home. Then of course you wouldn't do it, and nobody is saying you should. But other people who have their dogs in their homes understand it just fine. Live and let live.
  - markdown 5y ago
    Absolutely!
- Auracle 5y ago
  If your dog, inside or outside dog, has a poopy butt you should do something about it. Some breeds need trims back there from time to time. I personally don’t understand people that get breeds that shed like crazy as indoor dogs, or people that get large dogs and keep them cooped up all day.
- k8sToGo 5y ago
  Last time I checked the dog butt is covered in fur. Also dogs have a prolapsed anus... Where are you from that dogs are not seen as family members? Also what about children? They are not exactly known to be clean either.
  - markdown 5y ago
    > Where are you from that dogs are not seen as family members? Where did you get that idea? My dogs absolutely are members of the family. They don't get to live in my house though, just like the dozens of other relatives I have who don't share my roof. > Also what about children? They are not exactly known to be clean either. Children don't enter the house with dirty feet. They don't lie in the dirt outside and then come and nap on the couch. They wipe their butts and shower twice a day. Most dogs live free, out in the open. I'd bet only a small proportion of the worlds dogs are kept indoors.
stbenjam 5y ago
I guess your problem is seeing it as ownership instead of companionship.
- pessimizer 5y ago
  It's definitely ownership. They didn't choose to be with you and can't choose to leave, and you have the power of life and death over them.
  - erdos4d 5y ago
    > They didn't choose to be with you and can't choose to leave, and you have the power of life and death over them. This is an "interesting" mentality I see a lot. Ever dog I ever had was a stray and could leave if they wanted to. I don't really get people who think this way, but it seems really prevalent.
    - refurb 5y ago
      I mean a raccoon will keep coming to my house if I feed it, does that mean we have companionship?
      - smt88 5y ago
        It is bizarre that you think the human/dog relationship is analogous to one with a raccoon. You seem to disagree with the entire concept of domestication, which means you disagree with mountains of scientific facts along with billions of people's personal experiences with pets.
        refurb 5y ago
        You can domesticate raccoons. My point is - an animal that sticks around is not necessarily a companion. It could just see you as a reliable source of food.
        5y ago

djsavvy 5y ago

How did you work through your dog’s anxiety and build trust with her?

Auracle 5y ago
I also have a rescue that acted like she might have been abused. She was really afraid of men in particular but not women. It just took time. She’s still a little more shy around men 10 years later but it’s of no consequence. Once she realized how much we cared for her she turned around quickly.
clairity 5y ago
lots of love, playful interaction, encouragement... and chicken treats. but it was mostly time, i'd say. she needed to know for herself that her environment, and most importantly i, was safe. even though she was scared, she was a willing participant, which was crucial (she was always very attentive, like she was always trying very hard to understand what was going on). sometimes, it was just ignoring her while i did my usual activities. other times, it was exhibiting positive attention on her, and minimizing opportunities for the negative. i also worked on desensitizing her to certain triggers that would bring out fear aggression (which was rare, but as such, surprising when it happened), like reaching for her head, by doing it over and over at spontaneous moments to show her that it wasn't dangerous to her (and giving her treats for good behavior, and a tiny, gentle scolding for bad). mind you, she was a mild case as far as all this goes, but it still required focused and prolonged attention.
technothrasher 5y ago
We had our pup on an SSRI for about eight months when she was a puppy. We got her at three months old and she had been born in rescue. So we knew her history from birth and knew she wasn't abused, she was just a naturally very anxiety prone dog. After a month of being with us and just not getting over her anxiety (she was basically miserable whenever any humans were around) the vet suggested the drugs. They worked wonders, and after she'd grown a bit and come to accept us as "her people", we weened her off the drugs and all went well. At four years old, she's still an anxious dog, and always will be, but she's content in her home life now and likes to be with us. She's still very wary of strangers, and really doesn't like being out in more human dense areas, but it's easy enough to keep her activities to things she likes. And she's decided that my mom and her animals are the best thing on the planet, so she gets lots of visits to "Gramma's farm".