7 ms·

It was a story because people, for some stupid reason, started buying the horse version of the drug and horse owners couldn't get Ivermectin for their horses an

It was a story because people, for some stupid reason, started buying the horse version of the drug and horse owners couldn't get Ivermectin for their horses anymore: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/sep/20/ivermectin-shortage-horse-owners-covid https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/sep/20/ivermectin-sho... I haven't read any story that said: "It's a horsey drug for horses! If you take it, that means you're a horse!"

imgabe 5y ago
Yeah that didn’t really happen. The article you linked is a 404 Obviously they didn’t use those exact words, but any time it was mentioned they were sure to include something like “…which is used to treat livestock…”, when that is not really relevant since it’s also widely used for people.
- acdha 5y ago
  You might find it politically inconvenient to reconcile this with the stance you’ve chosen but there were plenty of people buying it from veterinary suppliers and reselling it online. Denying that is not a good way to establish credibility.
  - LanceH 5y ago
    Then you say, "Ivermectin is also used in a veterinarian capacity at concentration levels dangerous to humans." But the media chose the sensational way of saying it. It was also frequently dismissed entirely as being for horses without reference to concentration levels or what it actually does. > You might find it politically inconvenient to reconcile this with the stance you’ve chosen You might find it politically inconvenient to reconcile this with the stance you’ve chosen but the media and your side isn't right just because the other side is wrong.
    - brokensegue 5y ago
      People were literally taking formulations of the drug meant for horses.
    - acdha 5y ago
      > You might find it politically inconvenient to reconcile this with the stance you’ve chosen but the media and your side isn't right just because the other side is wrong. Oh, a strawman argument with bonus points for trying to look clever by pretending this is a “both-sides” situation so you can avoid intellectual engagement. If you re-read the thread you might notice that this was specifically in response to someone who was incorrectly claiming that people misusing animal medication didn't really happen. Nobody was saying that it's never used for humans — the big questions were whether it was useful for treating COVID (no) and whether it was a good idea to take non-human formulations and/or doses well outside of the safe ranges without involving a doctor (even more strongly no). If you want to rant about “the media” or sides, it would probably be a good first step to be specific about what you're talking about so anyone else can evaluate whatever claims you're making. “the media” covers a very wide range of voices and it's not like there's anywhere close to 100% fidelity between different parts of the media or, for that matter, the scientific and governmental voices they're reporting on.
- _fizz_buzz_ 5y ago
  fixed the link
- infinityio 5y ago
  To be fair, this is not entirely the case in the linked article: > Ivermectin is a deworming agent most commonly used on horses, livestock and occasionally dogs and cats. It is used in smaller doses in humans as an anti-parasitic, to treat conditions including skin problems and headlice.
- themacguffinman 5y ago
  Yes, it did happen. > FDA Center for Veterinary Medicine officials said in a letter to veterinarians and animal product retailers that people have become seriously ill from consuming highly concentrated ivermectin formulations, such as pour-on products, injectable products, pastes, and drenches meant for horses, cattle, and sheep. > Poison control officials said in August they were receiving substantial numbers of calls from people experiencing side effects—mostly mild illnesses—from consuming veterinary-use ivermectin. Some poison control centers across the U.S. were receiving five times as many calls about human exposures to ivermectin in July 2021 as compared with a pre-pandemic baseline. The reports of ivermectin misuse coincided with rising numbers of SARS-CoV-2 infections. https://www.avma.org/javma-news/2021-10-01/people-ingesting-veterinary-use-ivermectin-attempts-prevent-cure-covid-19 https://www.avma.org/javma-news/2021-10-01/people-ingesting-...
thepangolino 5y ago
StreamBright 5y ago
> started buying the horse version of the drug FYI there is no horse version of drugs. It would be a logistics and production nightmare to produce two kind of medicine like that. If a medicine has a chemical compound (like for example Amoxicillin) then it is good for both your fish and for you generally speaking.
- themacguffinman 5y ago
  That's not exactly true, it's not necessarily horse-specific but there are variations between human and animal versions: > Animal drugs, on the other hand, are often highly concentrated—especially those used in large animals such as horses and cows—and high doses of those drugs could be highly toxic in humans. > In addition, animal drugs often have inactive ingredients not evaluated for use in human medicine, and FDA officials don’t know how those ingredients affect drug absorption in a human body, FDA information states. https://www.avma.org/javma-news/2021-10-01/people-ingesting-veterinary-use-ivermectin-attempts-prevent-cure-covid-19 https://www.avma.org/javma-news/2021-10-01/people-ingesting-...
- odonnellryan 5y ago
  That's definitely not true about antibiotics.
- acdha 5y ago
  It looks like the source of your mistake is missing that while the active ingredient is the same, the formulations differ both due to size and variation in how the body handles the drug. For example, differences in bioavailability or the liver’s effectiveness breaking it down affect the choices about dosage and what other compounds are used to encourage uptake, make absorption faster or slower, etc. This is why you’ll often see species-specific warnings on veterinary medication since they don’t want you assuming that you can give one of your pets the same thing you got for a different one without checking.
- pavlov 5y ago
  Veterinary drugs are separate products with a different FDA approval pipeline.
- 5y ago
jesusofnazarath 5y ago
bleuchase 5y ago
> I haven't read any story that said: "It's a horsey drug for horses! If you take it, that means you're a horse!" That’s been said multiple times. By government agencies and media conglomerates. Amazing what you can find when you look for it. Literal talking point from the FDA https://twitter.com/US_FDA/status/1429050070243192839?s=20 https://twitter.com/US_FDA/status/1429050070243192839?s=20 Debacle with CNN and Joe Rogan https://news.yahoo.com/lie-joe-rogan-accuses-cnn-151300650.html https://news.yahoo.com/lie-joe-rogan-accuses-cnn-151300650.h...
- _fizz_buzz_ 5y ago
  ha, that's pretty funny actually
  - dekhn 5y ago
    it's almost as if joe rogan took prescribed ivermectin on purpose to show CNN how dumb they were calling it horse medicine (i dont' think what rogan did was Smart, but what CNN did was DUMB).
- ceejayoz 5y ago
  "Literal talking point from the FDA" Oh, come on. The tweet links to a page that gives information that doesn't fit in 280 characters; making a sly reference to what people are talking about is hardly outrageous, and likely intended to increase distribution of the useful info in the link. https://www.fda.gov/consumers/consumer-updates/why-you-should-not-use-ivermectin-treat-or-prevent-covid-19 https://www.fda.gov/consumers/consumer-updates/why-you-shoul... The next tweet has a FAQ, too (https://twitter.com/US_FDA/status/1429050498515144708 https://twitter.com/US_FDA/status/1429050498515144708) that's quite clear that ivermectin has some uses in humans, but isn't approved or shown to be useful for COVID. If you base your reality off single jokey tweets, that's on you.

imgabe 5y ago

Yeah that didn’t really happen. The article you linked is a 404 Obviously they didn’t use those exact words, but any time it was mentioned they were sure to include something like “…which is used to treat livestock…”, when that is not really relevant since it’s also widely used for people.

acdha 5y ago
You might find it politically inconvenient to reconcile this with the stance you’ve chosen but there were plenty of people buying it from veterinary suppliers and reselling it online. Denying that is not a good way to establish credibility.
- LanceH 5y ago
  Then you say, "Ivermectin is also used in a veterinarian capacity at concentration levels dangerous to humans." But the media chose the sensational way of saying it. It was also frequently dismissed entirely as being for horses without reference to concentration levels or what it actually does. > You might find it politically inconvenient to reconcile this with the stance you’ve chosen You might find it politically inconvenient to reconcile this with the stance you’ve chosen but the media and your side isn't right just because the other side is wrong.
  - brokensegue 5y ago
    People were literally taking formulations of the drug meant for horses.
  - acdha 5y ago
    > You might find it politically inconvenient to reconcile this with the stance you’ve chosen but the media and your side isn't right just because the other side is wrong. Oh, a strawman argument with bonus points for trying to look clever by pretending this is a “both-sides” situation so you can avoid intellectual engagement. If you re-read the thread you might notice that this was specifically in response to someone who was incorrectly claiming that people misusing animal medication didn't really happen. Nobody was saying that it's never used for humans — the big questions were whether it was useful for treating COVID (no) and whether it was a good idea to take non-human formulations and/or doses well outside of the safe ranges without involving a doctor (even more strongly no). If you want to rant about “the media” or sides, it would probably be a good first step to be specific about what you're talking about so anyone else can evaluate whatever claims you're making. “the media” covers a very wide range of voices and it's not like there's anywhere close to 100% fidelity between different parts of the media or, for that matter, the scientific and governmental voices they're reporting on.
_fizz_buzz_ 5y ago
fixed the link
infinityio 5y ago
To be fair, this is not entirely the case in the linked article: > Ivermectin is a deworming agent most commonly used on horses, livestock and occasionally dogs and cats. It is used in smaller doses in humans as an anti-parasitic, to treat conditions including skin problems and headlice.
themacguffinman 5y ago
Yes, it did happen. > FDA Center for Veterinary Medicine officials said in a letter to veterinarians and animal product retailers that people have become seriously ill from consuming highly concentrated ivermectin formulations, such as pour-on products, injectable products, pastes, and drenches meant for horses, cattle, and sheep. > Poison control officials said in August they were receiving substantial numbers of calls from people experiencing side effects—mostly mild illnesses—from consuming veterinary-use ivermectin. Some poison control centers across the U.S. were receiving five times as many calls about human exposures to ivermectin in July 2021 as compared with a pre-pandemic baseline. The reports of ivermectin misuse coincided with rising numbers of SARS-CoV-2 infections. https://www.avma.org/javma-news/2021-10-01/people-ingesting-veterinary-use-ivermectin-attempts-prevent-cure-covid-19 https://www.avma.org/javma-news/2021-10-01/people-ingesting-...

thepangolino 5y ago

StreamBright 5y ago

> started buying the horse version of the drug FYI there is no horse version of drugs. It would be a logistics and production nightmare to produce two kind of medicine like that. If a medicine has a chemical compound (like for example Amoxicillin) then it is good for both your fish and for you generally speaking.

themacguffinman 5y ago
That's not exactly true, it's not necessarily horse-specific but there are variations between human and animal versions: > Animal drugs, on the other hand, are often highly concentrated—especially those used in large animals such as horses and cows—and high doses of those drugs could be highly toxic in humans. > In addition, animal drugs often have inactive ingredients not evaluated for use in human medicine, and FDA officials don’t know how those ingredients affect drug absorption in a human body, FDA information states. https://www.avma.org/javma-news/2021-10-01/people-ingesting-veterinary-use-ivermectin-attempts-prevent-cure-covid-19 https://www.avma.org/javma-news/2021-10-01/people-ingesting-...
odonnellryan 5y ago
That's definitely not true about antibiotics.
acdha 5y ago
It looks like the source of your mistake is missing that while the active ingredient is the same, the formulations differ both due to size and variation in how the body handles the drug. For example, differences in bioavailability or the liver’s effectiveness breaking it down affect the choices about dosage and what other compounds are used to encourage uptake, make absorption faster or slower, etc. This is why you’ll often see species-specific warnings on veterinary medication since they don’t want you assuming that you can give one of your pets the same thing you got for a different one without checking.
pavlov 5y ago
Veterinary drugs are separate products with a different FDA approval pipeline.
5y ago

jesusofnazarath 5y ago

bleuchase 5y ago

> I haven't read any story that said: "It's a horsey drug for horses! If you take it, that means you're a horse!" That’s been said multiple times. By government agencies and media conglomerates. Amazing what you can find when you look for it. Literal talking point from the FDA https://twitter.com/US_FDA/status/1429050070243192839?s=20 https://twitter.com/US_FDA/status/1429050070243192839?s=20 Debacle with CNN and Joe Rogan https://news.yahoo.com/lie-joe-rogan-accuses-cnn-151300650.html https://news.yahoo.com/lie-joe-rogan-accuses-cnn-151300650.h...

_fizz_buzz_ 5y ago
ha, that's pretty funny actually
- dekhn 5y ago
  it's almost as if joe rogan took prescribed ivermectin on purpose to show CNN how dumb they were calling it horse medicine (i dont' think what rogan did was Smart, but what CNN did was DUMB).
ceejayoz 5y ago
"Literal talking point from the FDA" Oh, come on. The tweet links to a page that gives information that doesn't fit in 280 characters; making a sly reference to what people are talking about is hardly outrageous, and likely intended to increase distribution of the useful info in the link. https://www.fda.gov/consumers/consumer-updates/why-you-should-not-use-ivermectin-treat-or-prevent-covid-19 https://www.fda.gov/consumers/consumer-updates/why-you-shoul... The next tweet has a FAQ, too (https://twitter.com/US_FDA/status/1429050498515144708 https://twitter.com/US_FDA/status/1429050498515144708) that's quite clear that ivermectin has some uses in humans, but isn't approved or shown to be useful for COVID. If you base your reality off single jokey tweets, that's on you.