7 ms·

I’m sure it’s fine with your developer salary. Go tell the old lady with a meager pension or the family with three kids.

369548684892826 5y ago
Developer salary in France is probably lower than a French pension.
- jrimbault 5y ago
  FYI : wrong, so you can remove that "probably" from your mind. In France, developers are amongst the most well off salaried people. A junior developper would already be well above the median income and amongst the top 30% earners.
- masklinn 5y ago
  It really is not. The minimum pension in france is 916,78 euros as of 2022. The minimum wages are 1269 after taxes. And while developer income is far from what it is in “hot” locations (berlin, london) to say nothing of the US, it’s generally way over min wages, by integer multiples.
- Bayart 5y ago
  That's hyperbolic and false. Dev salaries are much better than the rest at equivalent education levels, just like they are everywhere. And pensions are quite low, although they usually assume that pensionneers own their home and have lower expenses than the working population.
  - ChuckNorris89 5y ago
    >they usually assume that pensionneers own their home Then good luck to the millennials out there will will have lower pensions than the boomers while also not being able to afford to own any properties.
    - Bayart 5y ago
      I don't plan on ever having a state pension. Most people my age just live with the idea that we're canon fodder for the economy.
      - ChuckNorris89 5y ago
        Same. I'm gonna enjoy whatever is left of my life where I'm healthy and can do the activities I like without saving for retirement, and the moment I'm too sick to be able to work and enjoy life, I'm probably just gonna off myself.
- Arkanosis 5y ago
  Developer in France here. No, it's not, not by a long shot.
1ris 5y ago
I'm so very sick of this kind of comment. "Sure we could prepare for the seemingly imminent WW3 and literally save the world in the process. But are we sure we want to? cAn We aFfoRd iT?" If you want social redistribution, implement redistribution. Do cash handouts. But don't fuck up other field of politics. These special interests corrupt everything. If you want to solve a problem, tackle it. Don't play "over gang" so some body can fill their pockets in the process.
- yourusername 5y ago
  I don't think anyone disagrees that moving away from hydrocarbons is a good thing. The contention is that this shock to move away more quickly is good. The lower half of incomes are really hurting. Our government (NL) is doing some quick fixes but it won't nearly compensate everything and according to the planning agencies we are looking at the biggest drop in spending power in over 40 years. That hurts if you were just barely getting by in 2020. E: This is not about gas for our SUVs being 30% more expensive, this is about your heating bill quadrupling since Q1 2021 if you have to do a new contract now.
  - dtech 5y ago
    > I don't think anyone disagrees that moving away from hydrocarbons is a good thing. You'd be surprised. Mostly these arguments come from people who think the whole thing is bullshit (or have financial incentives to say so) and we should take no action at all, or even actively move back to more fossil fuels.
  - paganel 5y ago
    Most of the solar cells are produced in China. China is not a democracy.
- saiya-jin 5y ago
  Especially in such a situation that status quo is directly financing army of dictator who openly states that all Europe all the way to the Atlantic ocean should be demilitarized, denuked and 'neutral', ie free for grab to anybody, but absolutely definitely maybe not by him. And as we saw in past few weeks he properly walks his talks, so its either acting or being weak and stupid.
vladvasiliu 5y ago
There are going to be a bunch of subsidies. Note that the article is actually about subsidies ending, not forbidding people from using gas heaters altogether, at least not yet. And this had already been announced since before the whole Ukraine situation. I don't remember the specifics, but there are some aids for improving insulation in the form of direct cash contributions and also low (or no) interest loans, guaranteed by the state.
rosndo 5y ago
Old lady with a meager pension can still wear more clothes and ensure that her home is properly insulated. Same goes for the family with three kids. Indoor temperatures going down by a degree or two really is not a big deal.
- egao1980 5y ago
  Unfortunately lower indoor temperature leads to excess mortality as stated in UK report - https://www.ons.gov.uk/releases/excesswintermortalityinenglandandwales2020to2021provisionaland2019to2020final https://www.ons.gov.uk/releases/excesswintermortalityinengla...
  - leoedin 5y ago
    There's literally no mention of indoor temperature in that report. All it says is that more people die in winter than summer - that could be due to all sorts of reasons. We know that viruses spread more in winter because people are indoors - that appears to be the main cause of excess winter death. It's good practice to use sources which back up your claim, rather than just vaguely talk about the same topic.
  - rosndo 5y ago
    I don’t see indoor temperatures discussed anywhere in this report, but yeah, excess mortality during the winter is to be expected. Some people suffering from debilitating conditions may freeze to death in their homes, but those people weren’t capable of safely living by themselves in the first place. I’ve lived through the winter in an old building that would barely heat above 17C, it wasn’t great, but I certainly wasn’t freezing all day long.
- bkor 5y ago
  > and ensure that her home is properly insulated. Netherlands is planning to get rid off gas for a while. I've attended a presentation by the city. They planned to spend 12.500 EUR per house to switch to an local heating plan. Basically a source of hot water will enter the home. This pipe is way bigger than a gas pipe, this is why 12.500 EUR is needed per home. They mentioned that likely you'll pay the same for heating as before. I find it bonkers. With 12.500, why not insulate and maybe prepare it for a air/water heat pump. The radiators on really old homes will need to be replaced with ones that work with a low temperature. Walls need to be insulated, windows and window frames likely need replacing. Still, it's way better to be more energy efficient than to spend 12.500 EUR per house (of which 11.500 will be "subsidized") than asking people to change things without actually improving their homes. The problem doesn't seem to be the money. The problem is that idiotic solutions are suggested. Plus that whatever is subsidized goes up in price. E.g. a air/water heat pump costs way too much.
CalRobert 5y ago
This is why my developer salary is very heavily taxed and energy upgrades (insulation, airtightness, heat pump, etc) for the aforementioned people are subsidized.
- brtkdotse 5y ago
  But how will the people lift themselves up by the bootstraps if you spoil them with subsidies??? /s
  - CalRobert 5y ago
    Given that the goal here is "don't cause basically an ecological apocalypse" and I benefit from other people emitting less I'd hope all can agree!

369548684892826 5y ago

Developer salary in France is probably lower than a French pension.

jrimbault 5y ago
FYI : wrong, so you can remove that "probably" from your mind. In France, developers are amongst the most well off salaried people. A junior developper would already be well above the median income and amongst the top 30% earners.
masklinn 5y ago
It really is not. The minimum pension in france is 916,78 euros as of 2022. The minimum wages are 1269 after taxes. And while developer income is far from what it is in “hot” locations (berlin, london) to say nothing of the US, it’s generally way over min wages, by integer multiples.
Bayart 5y ago
That's hyperbolic and false. Dev salaries are much better than the rest at equivalent education levels, just like they are everywhere. And pensions are quite low, although they usually assume that pensionneers own their home and have lower expenses than the working population.
- ChuckNorris89 5y ago
  >they usually assume that pensionneers own their home Then good luck to the millennials out there will will have lower pensions than the boomers while also not being able to afford to own any properties.
  - Bayart 5y ago
    I don't plan on ever having a state pension. Most people my age just live with the idea that we're canon fodder for the economy.
    - ChuckNorris89 5y ago
      Same. I'm gonna enjoy whatever is left of my life where I'm healthy and can do the activities I like without saving for retirement, and the moment I'm too sick to be able to work and enjoy life, I'm probably just gonna off myself.
Arkanosis 5y ago
Developer in France here. No, it's not, not by a long shot.

1ris 5y ago

I'm so very sick of this kind of comment. "Sure we could prepare for the seemingly imminent WW3 and literally save the world in the process. But are we sure we want to? cAn We aFfoRd iT?" If you want social redistribution, implement redistribution. Do cash handouts. But don't fuck up other field of politics. These special interests corrupt everything. If you want to solve a problem, tackle it. Don't play "over gang" so some body can fill their pockets in the process.

yourusername 5y ago
I don't think anyone disagrees that moving away from hydrocarbons is a good thing. The contention is that this shock to move away more quickly is good. The lower half of incomes are really hurting. Our government (NL) is doing some quick fixes but it won't nearly compensate everything and according to the planning agencies we are looking at the biggest drop in spending power in over 40 years. That hurts if you were just barely getting by in 2020. E: This is not about gas for our SUVs being 30% more expensive, this is about your heating bill quadrupling since Q1 2021 if you have to do a new contract now.
- dtech 5y ago
  > I don't think anyone disagrees that moving away from hydrocarbons is a good thing. You'd be surprised. Mostly these arguments come from people who think the whole thing is bullshit (or have financial incentives to say so) and we should take no action at all, or even actively move back to more fossil fuels.
- paganel 5y ago
  Most of the solar cells are produced in China. China is not a democracy.
saiya-jin 5y ago
Especially in such a situation that status quo is directly financing army of dictator who openly states that all Europe all the way to the Atlantic ocean should be demilitarized, denuked and 'neutral', ie free for grab to anybody, but absolutely definitely maybe not by him. And as we saw in past few weeks he properly walks his talks, so its either acting or being weak and stupid.

vladvasiliu 5y ago

There are going to be a bunch of subsidies. Note that the article is actually about subsidies ending, not forbidding people from using gas heaters altogether, at least not yet. And this had already been announced since before the whole Ukraine situation. I don't remember the specifics, but there are some aids for improving insulation in the form of direct cash contributions and also low (or no) interest loans, guaranteed by the state.

rosndo 5y ago

Old lady with a meager pension can still wear more clothes and ensure that her home is properly insulated. Same goes for the family with three kids. Indoor temperatures going down by a degree or two really is not a big deal.

egao1980 5y ago
Unfortunately lower indoor temperature leads to excess mortality as stated in UK report - https://www.ons.gov.uk/releases/excesswintermortalityinenglandandwales2020to2021provisionaland2019to2020final https://www.ons.gov.uk/releases/excesswintermortalityinengla...
- leoedin 5y ago
  There's literally no mention of indoor temperature in that report. All it says is that more people die in winter than summer - that could be due to all sorts of reasons. We know that viruses spread more in winter because people are indoors - that appears to be the main cause of excess winter death. It's good practice to use sources which back up your claim, rather than just vaguely talk about the same topic.
- rosndo 5y ago
  I don’t see indoor temperatures discussed anywhere in this report, but yeah, excess mortality during the winter is to be expected. Some people suffering from debilitating conditions may freeze to death in their homes, but those people weren’t capable of safely living by themselves in the first place. I’ve lived through the winter in an old building that would barely heat above 17C, it wasn’t great, but I certainly wasn’t freezing all day long.
bkor 5y ago
> and ensure that her home is properly insulated. Netherlands is planning to get rid off gas for a while. I've attended a presentation by the city. They planned to spend 12.500 EUR per house to switch to an local heating plan. Basically a source of hot water will enter the home. This pipe is way bigger than a gas pipe, this is why 12.500 EUR is needed per home. They mentioned that likely you'll pay the same for heating as before. I find it bonkers. With 12.500, why not insulate and maybe prepare it for a air/water heat pump. The radiators on really old homes will need to be replaced with ones that work with a low temperature. Walls need to be insulated, windows and window frames likely need replacing. Still, it's way better to be more energy efficient than to spend 12.500 EUR per house (of which 11.500 will be "subsidized") than asking people to change things without actually improving their homes. The problem doesn't seem to be the money. The problem is that idiotic solutions are suggested. Plus that whatever is subsidized goes up in price. E.g. a air/water heat pump costs way too much.

CalRobert 5y ago

This is why my developer salary is very heavily taxed and energy upgrades (insulation, airtightness, heat pump, etc) for the aforementioned people are subsidized.

brtkdotse 5y ago
But how will the people lift themselves up by the bootstraps if you spoil them with subsidies??? /s
- CalRobert 5y ago
  Given that the goal here is "don't cause basically an ecological apocalypse" and I benefit from other people emitting less I'd hope all can agree!