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Android 12 forces you to choose a default browser unless you disable Chrome

239 points by notRobot 5y ago

washadjeffmad 5y ago
Another unwelcome change is that disabling the YouTube app no longer allows opening YouTube links in an external application, forcing them to open in Chrome instead. I use just a handful of services that require Chrome, so it's unreasonable to have to disable it entirely to restore default historical behaviors. Really feels like throwing their toys out of the crib over not having total dominance on people's devices.
- throwra620 5y ago
  Try opening a Google maps link on iOS without Google maps installed. Annoying.
- Ourgon 5y ago
  The solution to the Youtube-problem is to use a Youtube-frontend like Invidious [1] in combination with an extension like Privacy Redirect [2] of libredirect [3] so you don't need to touch the Youtube site at all. The same works for things like Twitter and Reddit (which can be redirected to front-ends offering the same content) or Google Maps, Google Search and Google Translate (which get redirected to alternative services). Some of these alternatives - Invidious for Youtube, Nitter for Twitter, libreddit for Reddit - can (but don't have to) be run on your own server, others use established services. This way you get the benefits of accessing content from adversarial services like Twitter and Youtube without having to interface with them directly on any device you use, not just that phone you happened to install some alternative front end like Newpipe on. You can "subscribe" to Youtube channels without telling Google you did so, you can access those subscriptions from anywhere, etc. Ditch that Youtube app and while you're at it ditch the rest of those Google apps as well. Freedom is just one click away: Are you sure you want to uninstall this app? [OK]. [1] https://github.com/iv-org/invidious https://github.com/iv-org/invidious [2] https://github.com/SimonBrazell/privacy-redirect https://github.com/SimonBrazell/privacy-redirect [3] https://github.com/libredirect/libredirect https://github.com/libredirect/libredirect
  - sneak 5y ago
    How do I use Privacy Redirect on a mobile browser? I can't seem to install arbitrary browser extensions in Firefox on Graphene, just a little allowlist of a halfdozen "blessed" ones.
    - novok 5y ago
      In iOS, certain apps can register for certain URL domains and protocols to open the app instead. Maybe Android has something similar and you could leverage that in an app that implements something similar.
  - Liquix 5y ago
    This works flawlessly at the moment (currently using the same setup). However it's more of a workaround than a solution - Google could break/throttle all of Invidious at any point if it drives ad revenue down another couple points, just like they recently did to Vanced. The real solution is the hard one - moving away from YT entirely
    - 14 5y ago
      YouTube is getting shittier by the year also. Forcing me to watch an ad that takes 5 seconds to even start then after said ad the video freezes and doesn’t even play requiring a page refresh just to watch something. I’m ready for the alternative to arrive.
      - jvolkman 5y ago
        There are no video ads if you pay for YouTube Premium (outside of embedded paid sponsor stuff added by the video producers themselves).
        mcagl 5y ago
        Or even better: youtube in the browser, with ublock origin + sponsorblock, and Youtube becomes at least less annoying.
- zagrebian 5y ago
  Are there any instances of this link hijacking crap on iOS as well?
  - beart 5y ago
    My experience on iOS was that many application specific links were forcing the use of apple's apps, even if you have a third party app installed.
    - dijit 5y ago
      That only applied to the browser, calendar (and maybe the mail app, but I think that was always overridable), but this has changed now so you can choose default apps for all Apple built-ins. Most Apps seem to implement their own in-app browser (LinkedIn, Apollo) too.
      - Steltek 5y ago
        So is the browser stuff fixed then? IIRC, "default browser" was left to individual apps and it was implemented as the app requesting a URI of https:// https:// or chromeHttps:// (or something like that. It was total Apple bullshit.
        zagrebian 5y ago
        From my experience, it works well. I’ve set my default browser to Firefox, and links do open in Firefox indeed. Even when I’m in an in-app browser, and there’s a little Safari icon in the lower right corner, when I tap that icon, the link opens in Firefox. So the Safari button does not mean Safari but default browser. Pretty good.
        toyg 5y ago
        Usual reminder that Firefox in iOS still means "Safari with a Firefox skin". But yes, it's an improvement, after "only" a decade of complaints about a clearly anticompetitive restriction.
- maxhille 5y ago
  Can you clarify what you want to do exactly? 3rd party apps can still register on Youtube URLs, the process just changed a bit. And being affected in my app[1] by this change myself I have to say that this permission-style model is an improvement IMO. [1] https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.lambdasoup.watchlater https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.lambdasoup...
  - xenomachina 5y ago
    Two things the new system has broken for me: 1. Previously, installing a reddit app meant that it would become the default handler of reddit links. Worst case, I'd be prompted when I opened a reddit link, and I could choose the app I wanted, and say to use it every time or continue prompting. In Android 12, I have to go to settings and preemptively check a checkbox for every kind of url my reddit app can handle. Worse, every time my reddit app updates, these settings seem to get reset, and I have to go back and fix them. 2. It used to be possible to register an app with a file type. For example, MX Player registers itself with video file types. Firefox even has some special support for this, so if you're on a page with an embedded video, you can long press on the video and select "Open in external app". Prior to Android 12 this would give you a chooser, and you could select an installed video player. In Android 12, it just takes you straight to the default browser. It is no longer possible to register a default handler by file type. > I have to say that this permission-style model is an improvement IMO. What does the new system make better? All it does is remove user choice. If I wanted a walled garden I'd use iOS.
- Iolaum 5y ago
  Can't you install Newpipe and select that as the default way to open youtube links? (Assuming you don't object to doing that of course.)
  - AdmiralAsshat 5y ago
    IIRC you can't install Newpipe without enabling side-loaded apps, though. It's not available on the Play Store for obvious reasons.
    - GekkePrutser 5y ago
      That's not a bad thing though? F-Droid has some really great apps. Very fast too compared to their data harvesting Google play alternatives. I mostly use FOSS apps now, their quality has improved a lot in recent years.
      - LordDragonfang 5y ago
        Which apps would you specifically recommend as faster compared to their counterparts?
        deleted 5y ago
        [deleted]
        GekkePrutser 5y ago
        Geometric Weather, Newpipe ( instead of YouTube), AndOTP (instead of Google or Microsoft authenticator, the latter being 77MB!), RCX (instead of OneDrive or Dropbox etc). Gadgetbridge to interface with my Xiaomi band and Amazfit watch (also not leaking any personal data unlike the official app!) All apps that don't do any tracking nor ads and as such save a ton of cpu speed and storage. Especially Microsoft apps are really bad lately. Like OneDrive and Outlook. I have to use them for work. After a month or two outlook uses several gigabytes of storage and gets super slow to refresh. I don't use an open source app instead of it, as I couldn't find a great one, sadly. But I use Nine from 9folders which is great and fast. Though I really want to try out FairEmail soon. Oh and Organic maps Vs Google maps, or OsmAnd. The latter is not faster but its maps are a lot better and the app has a lot more features.
- Larrikin 5y ago
  This isn't true? I discovered Vanced a few weeks ago, and YouTube links are opening just fine after disabling the links on the official app and enabling them in the Vanced.
  - moogly 5y ago
    I have some bad news for you regarding Vanced...
- lopis 5y ago
  If you need a chrome browser, would using another chrome based browser work?
qwerty456127 5y ago
Good for me, it's been over 5 years since I last had Chrome installed on mobile.
eldaisfish 5y ago
I would pay for a mobile operating system that was not from Google or Apple and that i could install with one click. Before someone recommends Android ROMs, that's too complicated for most people and i don't have the patience or time to dig through forum posts for the solutions to bugs. I avoid google where i can and this includes their mobile operating system. I despise apple because of their design choices that prevent you from doing even the simplest tasks. An easily installed alternative would be great.
- selectodude 5y ago
  You’re in luck! https://sailfishos.org/ https://sailfishos.org/
  - elcomet 5y ago
    > that i could install with one click Come on, there isn't even a button "install" on the sailfish website. You certainly have to go through the "developers" menu, but even there, it's not clear where to go to install it. It does not fit att all the requirements
    - smoldesu 5y ago
      I think you're the one with unrealistic expectations here. There's quite literally no way for you to install another OS with one click; even if you do have a device that allows you to flash other OSes to it, you have to unlock the bootloader and -- oops! That's your one click. OP means it figuratively. Amazon's "one click" checkout isn't actually just one click, it's a metaphor for how simple they're going to make it for you to buy the item. Similarly, a "one click" install of another OS should be taken to mean "dead simple to install" instead. You're welcome to debate how easy it is to install Sailfish OS on those grounds, but if we're being pedantic then there's quite literally no solutions that actually fit the parent's description.
      - readams 5y ago
        One click really was one click. They had all the payment and address info shared. You just clicked one button. They did have an undo.
tgv 5y ago
Did they provide a rationale for this change? Or is this more of a "middle manager's bonus depends on engagement KPI" kind of thing?
- AdmiralAsshat 5y ago
  Does Google ever provide a rationale for why they continue to twist Android internals to use More Google?
  - AniseAbyss 5y ago
    I always felt Google regards Android as a mistake. It is too open. Just look at how iOS is printing money for Apple with its walled garden. And Google's Pixel line smartphones are not selling. If they could do it all over again things would be very different.
    - hef19898 5y ago
      I'm happy with the Pixel line, so I hope they don't try to redo them. Google tried to turn the Pixel phones into Google's iPhones ever since they dropped the Nexus branding.
      - AdmiralAsshat 5y ago
        It certainly helped when they bought half of HTC's engineers in 2017.
        hef19898 5y ago
        I loved the LG made Nexus phones a lot back the day. But yes HTC did build nice, solid phones as well.
    - lotsofpulp 5y ago
      Alphabet simply does not want to invest enough in R&D to develop devices as solid as Apple’s, nor do they want the expenses of in person support. Nothing has stopped them for the past 15 years from spending money to develop a similar locked down device and building out a network of retail stores. They would rather leave the expensive hardware business to other companies since it does not scale as cheaply as slinging ads via software. Microsoft is guilty of the same. They are happy with the high margin rent from Azure/Windows/Office licensing, so why bother rolling the dice on expensive hardware development and support.
naoqj 5y ago
- throwmeariver1 5y ago
  https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
oauea 5y ago
Anyone know how they do this? Is this one of those APIs that exist but you're not allowed to use (unless you're Google) if you want to get published on the play store?
- xg15 5y ago
  What do you mean specifically? The "use this app as the 'default' default browser" behaviour? My guess is that Chrome's app ID is simply hardcoded somewhere inside the OS.
  - oauea 5y ago
    > The "use this app as the 'default' default browser" behaviour? Yes, this. If the app id is actually baked into the OS that seems shadier than usual.
lizardactivist 5y ago
The entirety of Google itself is like a dark pattern.
mdellavo 5y ago
It's pretty much BS like that that had me switch to IOS after years on Android.
- morganvachon 5y ago
  I use an iPhone too, but aren't all iOS browsers using the Safari engine in the background, even if the front end is branded as Firefox/Edge/whatever?
  - bluGill 5y ago
    Only for javascript - you can have your own html engine, but you have to use the sarari javascript engine. Technically you can have your own javascript engine, but your performance will be bad enough that we can ignore this.
    - judge2020 5y ago
      The performance would be bad because of no JIT, but the main issue it is that Apple requires WebKit usage: > 2.5.6 Apps that browse the web must use the appropriate WebKit framework and WebKit Javascript. > 4.7 HTML5 Games, Bots, etc. -> only use capabilities available in a standard WebKit view (e.g. it must open and run natively in Safari without modifications or additional software); and use WebKit and JavaScript Core to run third-party software and should not attempt to extend or expose native platform APIs to third-party software; Now, I get their reasoning - if you did parse regular javascript and JIT was allowed (which would be required to prevent any anticompetitive remarks in terms of performance for these other engines), random pages could exploit those 3p browsers and extract information from the APIs they have access to. But computers are complicated enough to where you probably couldn't explain to a layperson/congressperson the difference between iOS forcing developers to use their Window management APIs and iOS forcing developers to use their javascript APIs, so this is unlikely to change with regulatory force or anything of the sort.
      - mywittyname 5y ago
svnpenn 5y ago
I am all for hating on Google, but is this really a problem? How many people are consistently opening different links in different browsers? Whats wrong with just setting the default to some non-Chrome browser?
- HWR_14 5y ago
  Well, it's a great way to try to force web developers (who must make it work on Android Chrome) to either buy extra devices or be unable to use the default of their choice. And if you can get the developers to default to Chrome, that's good for reinforcing "chrome first" development. Edit: Apparently I misunderstood the imposition (see the response chain below). Seems benign but annoying for power users.
  - unholiness 5y ago
    Developers have no trouble changing this setting though, right?
  - k1t 5y ago
    You can use the default of your choice. Previously, if you didn't choose a default, Android would ask you every time you opened a url - which browser? Now, if there's no default set, it just uses Chrome instead. Workarounds are disabling Chrome, or setting a third party browser selector as the default browser.
    - HWR_14 5y ago
      Ah, I misunderstood. Thanks for the correction. Seems fairly harmless then, as the most common reason for nondefault is an error. I would like to see an explicit way to set it to "none" by including a first party browser selector.
    - curt15 5y ago
      Does Android 12 now hard-code references to Google Chrome?
- ProAm 5y ago
shoeWill 5y ago
Well you just forced me into old Reddit. Why do people like that clunky interface?
- hackmiester 5y ago
  It’s a losing battle with this crowd. I finally just wrote a user script that deletes the “old” from the URL for me.
- elric 5y ago
  IMO the "new" interface is a serious downgrade. Especially on mobile: it keeps nagging you to switch to the mobile app and is rife with dark patterns, including pretending some subreddits are only accessible through the app.
- Miner49er 5y ago
  I think you're the first person I've ever seen who prefers the new interface. It's extremely unpopular, at least on HN.
  - Jcowell 5y ago
    Add +2 thought it’s mainly for dark mode (and no I will not install an extension)
- Semaphor 5y ago
  > Why do people like that clunky interface? Why do people like the super slow new reddit? Is a slightly shinier site really worth several 100ms delay for actions taken? FWIW, I’d switch to new in a heartbeat. Better Markdown, more customization, looks cleaner (and I’m always logged in, so the account thing is not an issue). But not with the crappy speed it currently has.
  - judge2020 5y ago
    At least with adblock it actually loads pretty fast, the issues are the annoyances, and man I didn't know how bad it was. It dimmed the entire page to try to ask me for notification access: https://i.judge.sh/EUnAO/2_koa6cB9q.png https://i.judge.sh/EUnAO/2_koa6cB9q.png Then it wants to ask me about topics i'm interested in: https://i.judge.sh/RF58W/N_17B22eMD.png https://i.judge.sh/RF58W/N_17B22eMD.png Then, without ublock, below the fold, almost all of the content on the page is an advertisement https://i.judge.sh/bfACD/6_Kl9IneDr.png https://i.judge.sh/bfACD/6_Kl9IneDr.png
DoingIsLearning 5y ago
Slightly OT but I heard complaints about bluetooth on android 12. I am holding back at Android 11, anybody knows if this has been adressed yet?
uhtred 5y ago
There are google free versions of Android. https://e.foundation/ https://e.foundation/
- loufe 5y ago
  For sure, but have you tried an even partially de-googled phone? It's not as simple as not using gmail and google maps. Lots of apps don't like MicroG, and MicroG free Android results in a small percentage of apps working. Google has done an amazing job of owning yet "not owning" Android.
  - bennettnate5 5y ago
    I've been using a de-googled phone for about a year now (CalyxOS, uses MicroG) and I have yet to run into an app that behaves differently than when I used the stock OS for my Pixel. I've even tried downloading Google's apps and they work the same, no hiccups (Maps, Camera and Translate for me). CalyxOS includes a firewall that can disable network connectivity on a per-app basis, so one could even just use downloaded maps/translation sets with Google apps if they wanted. Again, this is just my personal experience--I'm sure there are apps out there that deliberately throw a fit when they detect a custom-signed OS running on your phone. I just have yet to see that in any of the banking, social media or productivity apps I've used.
    - loufe 5y ago
      I've been on CalyxOS with MicroG for a couple months now and unfortunately have had several apps which did not get along with MicroG. It's too bad but it's a decent compromise so far.
  - uhtred 5y ago
    I use a completely de-googled phone OS - /e/. MicroG works great.
  - Schroedingersat 5y ago
    Australia's covid app required googles services or apple Sign over your privacy or sit in the hole, peasant.
martin_a 5y ago
Well, I'm probably developing more and more into a grumpy mid-30s guy, but I'm just annoyed by all of this. Just let me use the browser I want and don't fuck around like this. Just let me have things the way I want, I will even accept that I have to fiddle with obscure settings and whatnot, but at least give me the option to have things the way I like them and give me the feeling that I have control over at least _something_. I have the feeling with every tech news, there's immediately something like "but you can only do it in that way because the developer/producer does not want you to do it another way". Don't know if I can keep up with all of this. Has anybody experience with switching from e-commerce & software to lumberjack?
- judge2020 5y ago
  This is only if you really want to be able to open different browsers depending on which link you click. You can still set the default to some other browser and forget it.
  - martin_a 5y ago
    For how long, though? At some point Google just decides that Android only works with Chrome and users don't want anythign else (look at the data from A12 user base!) and removes that option, just like Apple did.
    - djrogers 5y ago
      > and removes that option, just like Apple did. Umm, no - Apple started without that option, but recently introduced it.
      - martin_a 5y ago
        Learned something new here thanks! edit: But is it "native" Firefox or just a different theme for Safari? I think I read somewhere in this thread, that you are bound to use Apples JS engine?!
nyanpasu64 5y ago
I've worked around this issue by installing "Open Link With" (https://f-droid.org/en/packages/com.tasomaniac.openwith.floss/ https://f-droid.org/en/packages/com.tasomaniac.openwith.flos..., https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.tasomaniac.openwith https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.tasomaniac...) and setting it as the default browser. Unfortunately its mechanism for setting browsers as default on a per-domain level has issues (can't open Reddit images and threads in separate apps). And a few years back, this app got slower and randomly spends a few seconds preparing a list of browsers, though I never debugged why it started happening.
- antifa 5y ago
  Interesting bug in fdroid's search, "Open Link With" returned no relevant results but "Open With" returned the expected app first.
astrea 5y ago
What is the rationale for opening different links in different browsers? Do some pages render better in other browsers?
- slig 5y ago
  There's no way to open links directly into an incognito tab, so I like to keep two browsers: one logged in in everything and another that I use to open random links from IM.
  - cuteboy19 5y ago
    Firefox has that option, to open links directly in private mode
    - slig 5y ago
      Thanks, did not know that!
notjustanymike 5y ago
This is a nice time to point out Firefox for Android allows you to install uBlock Origin.
- discardedrefuse 5y ago
  The browser situation on Android sucks. I test every browser I try like this: Can it scroll through Imgur properly? Sadly, only Chrome and Brave pass this test (its been a while since I tried Edge, but it used to fail at this too). Luckily Brave has decent ad blocking built in.
  - Sunspark 5y ago
    The best browser on Android is usually Samsung Internet Browser. It will work on non-Samsung devices. It has dark mode, it has adguard block addon, it's chromium, etc.
    - fartcannon 5y ago
      That doesn't sound good at all. I don't want a Samsung, adguard or chromium..
  - jonnycomputer 5y ago
    Firefox for Android leaves much to be desired. But I still use it over Chrome.
  - distances 5y ago
    I don't know why you would blame the browser and not Imgur for this.
    - discardedrefuse 5y ago
      Oh, I'm certain Imgur could fix this issue if they wanted to. But they would rather push users into their app, so that's never going to happen. I still think this is as good test because A) I use Imgur's website on mobile, and B) expecting all web sites to be correctly optimized is unrealistic. I prefer to use Brave and uninstall Chrome, than use Firefox with Chrome as a backup.
yosef123 5y ago
This has been happening for a while, my solution was to disable google chrome, and install chrome beta instead just to have a "chrome"
h3mb3 5y ago
I needed to read this a couple of times before understanding what's the issue. Interesting how differently people use their devices. For me instead, the #1 annoyance with Android 12 is that it doesn't support changing the default camera app anymore. I'm on Pixel 3, where Google Camera is artificially made shitty as the 60 fps option for the video is hidden. As a workaround, I've been running the Camera PX version of the app (from XDA Developers) which let's you change the fps and has other cool customization (while still keeping the best parts of Google Camera). Now this doesn't help as the "double tap the power button" shortcut always opens the subpar stock camera app.
akagusu 5y ago
A big corp being hostile to users and treating users like cattle? Nothing new here. People have been warned for years about this kind of s#it, but they were more interested in the free stuff offered by the big corp.
- qiskit 5y ago
  Seems to be the M.O. of these companies. Get a comfortable and safe/monopolistic position and then screw the users over. It's so funny how everything seems open and promising until they reach a certain size and then it suddenly starts to be restrictive and closed.
voz_ 5y ago
Yet another major reason to never use Android, the weaker, worse, less secure, less private OS.
- ProAm 5y ago
  Weaker and worse is arguable. There is so much more functionality available on Android than iOS, I can install whatever I'd like on my device, I can write any kind of app I choose to and install it on my device. I can organize my media files in any manner I wish to..... But yes less secure, and much less private. Android is essentially spyware for google.
LinAGKar 5y ago
YouTube does the same thing. If you have it set to ask when opening YouTube links, and the YouTube app is available for opening them, it will change the setting so the links always open in the YouTube app without asking.
mrtweetyhack 5y ago
juanci_to 5y ago
Didn't Microsoft had trouble in Russia for pushing Internet Explorer so much?

239 points by notRobot 5y ago

Another unwelcome change is that disabling the YouTube app no longer allows opening YouTube links in an external application, forcing them to open in Chrome instead. I use just a handful of services that require Chrome, so it's unreasonable to have to disable it entirely to restore default historical behaviors. Really feels like throwing their toys out of the crib over not having total dominance on people's devices.

throwra620 5y ago
Try opening a Google maps link on iOS without Google maps installed. Annoying.
Ourgon 5y ago
The solution to the Youtube-problem is to use a Youtube-frontend like Invidious [1] in combination with an extension like Privacy Redirect [2] of libredirect [3] so you don't need to touch the Youtube site at all. The same works for things like Twitter and Reddit (which can be redirected to front-ends offering the same content) or Google Maps, Google Search and Google Translate (which get redirected to alternative services). Some of these alternatives - Invidious for Youtube, Nitter for Twitter, libreddit for Reddit - can (but don't have to) be run on your own server, others use established services. This way you get the benefits of accessing content from adversarial services like Twitter and Youtube without having to interface with them directly on any device you use, not just that phone you happened to install some alternative front end like Newpipe on. You can "subscribe" to Youtube channels without telling Google you did so, you can access those subscriptions from anywhere, etc. Ditch that Youtube app and while you're at it ditch the rest of those Google apps as well. Freedom is just one click away: Are you sure you want to uninstall this app? [OK]. [1] https://github.com/iv-org/invidious https://github.com/iv-org/invidious [2] https://github.com/SimonBrazell/privacy-redirect https://github.com/SimonBrazell/privacy-redirect [3] https://github.com/libredirect/libredirect https://github.com/libredirect/libredirect
- sneak 5y ago
  How do I use Privacy Redirect on a mobile browser? I can't seem to install arbitrary browser extensions in Firefox on Graphene, just a little allowlist of a halfdozen "blessed" ones.
  - novok 5y ago
    In iOS, certain apps can register for certain URL domains and protocols to open the app instead. Maybe Android has something similar and you could leverage that in an app that implements something similar.
- Liquix 5y ago
  This works flawlessly at the moment (currently using the same setup). However it's more of a workaround than a solution - Google could break/throttle all of Invidious at any point if it drives ad revenue down another couple points, just like they recently did to Vanced. The real solution is the hard one - moving away from YT entirely
  - 14 5y ago
    YouTube is getting shittier by the year also. Forcing me to watch an ad that takes 5 seconds to even start then after said ad the video freezes and doesn’t even play requiring a page refresh just to watch something. I’m ready for the alternative to arrive.
    - jvolkman 5y ago
      There are no video ads if you pay for YouTube Premium (outside of embedded paid sponsor stuff added by the video producers themselves).
      - mcagl 5y ago
        Or even better: youtube in the browser, with ublock origin + sponsorblock, and Youtube becomes at least less annoying.
zagrebian 5y ago
Are there any instances of this link hijacking crap on iOS as well?
- beart 5y ago
  My experience on iOS was that many application specific links were forcing the use of apple's apps, even if you have a third party app installed.
  - dijit 5y ago
    That only applied to the browser, calendar (and maybe the mail app, but I think that was always overridable), but this has changed now so you can choose default apps for all Apple built-ins. Most Apps seem to implement their own in-app browser (LinkedIn, Apollo) too.
    - Steltek 5y ago
      So is the browser stuff fixed then? IIRC, "default browser" was left to individual apps and it was implemented as the app requesting a URI of https:// https:// or chromeHttps:// (or something like that. It was total Apple bullshit.
      - zagrebian 5y ago
        From my experience, it works well. I’ve set my default browser to Firefox, and links do open in Firefox indeed. Even when I’m in an in-app browser, and there’s a little Safari icon in the lower right corner, when I tap that icon, the link opens in Firefox. So the Safari button does not mean Safari but default browser. Pretty good.
        toyg 5y ago
        Usual reminder that Firefox in iOS still means "Safari with a Firefox skin". But yes, it's an improvement, after "only" a decade of complaints about a clearly anticompetitive restriction.
maxhille 5y ago
Can you clarify what you want to do exactly? 3rd party apps can still register on Youtube URLs, the process just changed a bit. And being affected in my app[1] by this change myself I have to say that this permission-style model is an improvement IMO. [1] https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.lambdasoup.watchlater https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.lambdasoup...
- xenomachina 5y ago
  Two things the new system has broken for me: 1. Previously, installing a reddit app meant that it would become the default handler of reddit links. Worst case, I'd be prompted when I opened a reddit link, and I could choose the app I wanted, and say to use it every time or continue prompting. In Android 12, I have to go to settings and preemptively check a checkbox for every kind of url my reddit app can handle. Worse, every time my reddit app updates, these settings seem to get reset, and I have to go back and fix them. 2. It used to be possible to register an app with a file type. For example, MX Player registers itself with video file types. Firefox even has some special support for this, so if you're on a page with an embedded video, you can long press on the video and select "Open in external app". Prior to Android 12 this would give you a chooser, and you could select an installed video player. In Android 12, it just takes you straight to the default browser. It is no longer possible to register a default handler by file type. > I have to say that this permission-style model is an improvement IMO. What does the new system make better? All it does is remove user choice. If I wanted a walled garden I'd use iOS.
Iolaum 5y ago
Can't you install Newpipe and select that as the default way to open youtube links? (Assuming you don't object to doing that of course.)
- AdmiralAsshat 5y ago
  IIRC you can't install Newpipe without enabling side-loaded apps, though. It's not available on the Play Store for obvious reasons.
  - GekkePrutser 5y ago
    That's not a bad thing though? F-Droid has some really great apps. Very fast too compared to their data harvesting Google play alternatives. I mostly use FOSS apps now, their quality has improved a lot in recent years.
    - LordDragonfang 5y ago
      Which apps would you specifically recommend as faster compared to their counterparts?
      - deleted 5y ago
        [deleted]
      - GekkePrutser 5y ago
        Geometric Weather, Newpipe ( instead of YouTube), AndOTP (instead of Google or Microsoft authenticator, the latter being 77MB!), RCX (instead of OneDrive or Dropbox etc). Gadgetbridge to interface with my Xiaomi band and Amazfit watch (also not leaking any personal data unlike the official app!) All apps that don't do any tracking nor ads and as such save a ton of cpu speed and storage. Especially Microsoft apps are really bad lately. Like OneDrive and Outlook. I have to use them for work. After a month or two outlook uses several gigabytes of storage and gets super slow to refresh. I don't use an open source app instead of it, as I couldn't find a great one, sadly. But I use Nine from 9folders which is great and fast. Though I really want to try out FairEmail soon. Oh and Organic maps Vs Google maps, or OsmAnd. The latter is not faster but its maps are a lot better and the app has a lot more features.
Larrikin 5y ago
This isn't true? I discovered Vanced a few weeks ago, and YouTube links are opening just fine after disabling the links on the official app and enabling them in the Vanced.
- moogly 5y ago
  I have some bad news for you regarding Vanced...
lopis 5y ago
If you need a chrome browser, would using another chrome based browser work?

qwerty456127 5y ago

Good for me, it's been over 5 years since I last had Chrome installed on mobile.

eldaisfish 5y ago

I would pay for a mobile operating system that was not from Google or Apple and that i could install with one click. Before someone recommends Android ROMs, that's too complicated for most people and i don't have the patience or time to dig through forum posts for the solutions to bugs. I avoid google where i can and this includes their mobile operating system. I despise apple because of their design choices that prevent you from doing even the simplest tasks. An easily installed alternative would be great.

selectodude 5y ago
You’re in luck! https://sailfishos.org/ https://sailfishos.org/
- elcomet 5y ago
  > that i could install with one click Come on, there isn't even a button "install" on the sailfish website. You certainly have to go through the "developers" menu, but even there, it's not clear where to go to install it. It does not fit att all the requirements
  - smoldesu 5y ago
    I think you're the one with unrealistic expectations here. There's quite literally no way for you to install another OS with one click; even if you do have a device that allows you to flash other OSes to it, you have to unlock the bootloader and -- oops! That's your one click. OP means it figuratively. Amazon's "one click" checkout isn't actually just one click, it's a metaphor for how simple they're going to make it for you to buy the item. Similarly, a "one click" install of another OS should be taken to mean "dead simple to install" instead. You're welcome to debate how easy it is to install Sailfish OS on those grounds, but if we're being pedantic then there's quite literally no solutions that actually fit the parent's description.
    - readams 5y ago
      One click really was one click. They had all the payment and address info shared. You just clicked one button. They did have an undo.

tgv 5y ago

Did they provide a rationale for this change? Or is this more of a "middle manager's bonus depends on engagement KPI" kind of thing?

AdmiralAsshat 5y ago
Does Google ever provide a rationale for why they continue to twist Android internals to use More Google?
- AniseAbyss 5y ago
  I always felt Google regards Android as a mistake. It is too open. Just look at how iOS is printing money for Apple with its walled garden. And Google's Pixel line smartphones are not selling. If they could do it all over again things would be very different.
  - hef19898 5y ago
    I'm happy with the Pixel line, so I hope they don't try to redo them. Google tried to turn the Pixel phones into Google's iPhones ever since they dropped the Nexus branding.
    - AdmiralAsshat 5y ago
      It certainly helped when they bought half of HTC's engineers in 2017.
      - hef19898 5y ago
        I loved the LG made Nexus phones a lot back the day. But yes HTC did build nice, solid phones as well.
  - lotsofpulp 5y ago
    Alphabet simply does not want to invest enough in R&D to develop devices as solid as Apple’s, nor do they want the expenses of in person support. Nothing has stopped them for the past 15 years from spending money to develop a similar locked down device and building out a network of retail stores. They would rather leave the expensive hardware business to other companies since it does not scale as cheaply as slinging ads via software. Microsoft is guilty of the same. They are happy with the high margin rent from Azure/Windows/Office licensing, so why bother rolling the dice on expensive hardware development and support.

naoqj 5y ago

throwmeariver1 5y ago
https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

oauea 5y ago

Anyone know how they do this? Is this one of those APIs that exist but you're not allowed to use (unless you're Google) if you want to get published on the play store?

xg15 5y ago
What do you mean specifically? The "use this app as the 'default' default browser" behaviour? My guess is that Chrome's app ID is simply hardcoded somewhere inside the OS.
- oauea 5y ago
  > The "use this app as the 'default' default browser" behaviour? Yes, this. If the app id is actually baked into the OS that seems shadier than usual.

lizardactivist 5y ago

The entirety of Google itself is like a dark pattern.

mdellavo 5y ago

It's pretty much BS like that that had me switch to IOS after years on Android.

morganvachon 5y ago
I use an iPhone too, but aren't all iOS browsers using the Safari engine in the background, even if the front end is branded as Firefox/Edge/whatever?
- bluGill 5y ago
  Only for javascript - you can have your own html engine, but you have to use the sarari javascript engine. Technically you can have your own javascript engine, but your performance will be bad enough that we can ignore this.
  - judge2020 5y ago
    The performance would be bad because of no JIT, but the main issue it is that Apple requires WebKit usage: > 2.5.6 Apps that browse the web must use the appropriate WebKit framework and WebKit Javascript. > 4.7 HTML5 Games, Bots, etc. -> only use capabilities available in a standard WebKit view (e.g. it must open and run natively in Safari without modifications or additional software); and use WebKit and JavaScript Core to run third-party software and should not attempt to extend or expose native platform APIs to third-party software; Now, I get their reasoning - if you did parse regular javascript and JIT was allowed (which would be required to prevent any anticompetitive remarks in terms of performance for these other engines), random pages could exploit those 3p browsers and extract information from the APIs they have access to. But computers are complicated enough to where you probably couldn't explain to a layperson/congressperson the difference between iOS forcing developers to use their Window management APIs and iOS forcing developers to use their javascript APIs, so this is unlikely to change with regulatory force or anything of the sort.
    - mywittyname 5y ago

svnpenn 5y ago

I am all for hating on Google, but is this really a problem? How many people are consistently opening different links in different browsers? Whats wrong with just setting the default to some non-Chrome browser?

HWR_14 5y ago
Well, it's a great way to try to force web developers (who must make it work on Android Chrome) to either buy extra devices or be unable to use the default of their choice. And if you can get the developers to default to Chrome, that's good for reinforcing "chrome first" development. Edit: Apparently I misunderstood the imposition (see the response chain below). Seems benign but annoying for power users.
- unholiness 5y ago
  Developers have no trouble changing this setting though, right?
- k1t 5y ago
  You can use the default of your choice. Previously, if you didn't choose a default, Android would ask you every time you opened a url - which browser? Now, if there's no default set, it just uses Chrome instead. Workarounds are disabling Chrome, or setting a third party browser selector as the default browser.
  - HWR_14 5y ago
    Ah, I misunderstood. Thanks for the correction. Seems fairly harmless then, as the most common reason for nondefault is an error. I would like to see an explicit way to set it to "none" by including a first party browser selector.
  - curt15 5y ago
    Does Android 12 now hard-code references to Google Chrome?
ProAm 5y ago

shoeWill 5y ago

Well you just forced me into old Reddit. Why do people like that clunky interface?

hackmiester 5y ago
It’s a losing battle with this crowd. I finally just wrote a user script that deletes the “old” from the URL for me.
elric 5y ago
IMO the "new" interface is a serious downgrade. Especially on mobile: it keeps nagging you to switch to the mobile app and is rife with dark patterns, including pretending some subreddits are only accessible through the app.
Miner49er 5y ago
I think you're the first person I've ever seen who prefers the new interface. It's extremely unpopular, at least on HN.
- Jcowell 5y ago
  Add +2 thought it’s mainly for dark mode (and no I will not install an extension)
Semaphor 5y ago
> Why do people like that clunky interface? Why do people like the super slow new reddit? Is a slightly shinier site really worth several 100ms delay for actions taken? FWIW, I’d switch to new in a heartbeat. Better Markdown, more customization, looks cleaner (and I’m always logged in, so the account thing is not an issue). But not with the crappy speed it currently has.
- judge2020 5y ago
  At least with adblock it actually loads pretty fast, the issues are the annoyances, and man I didn't know how bad it was. It dimmed the entire page to try to ask me for notification access: https://i.judge.sh/EUnAO/2_koa6cB9q.png https://i.judge.sh/EUnAO/2_koa6cB9q.png Then it wants to ask me about topics i'm interested in: https://i.judge.sh/RF58W/N_17B22eMD.png https://i.judge.sh/RF58W/N_17B22eMD.png Then, without ublock, below the fold, almost all of the content on the page is an advertisement https://i.judge.sh/bfACD/6_Kl9IneDr.png https://i.judge.sh/bfACD/6_Kl9IneDr.png

DoingIsLearning 5y ago

Slightly OT but I heard complaints about bluetooth on android 12. I am holding back at Android 11, anybody knows if this has been adressed yet?

uhtred 5y ago

There are google free versions of Android. https://e.foundation/ https://e.foundation/

loufe 5y ago
For sure, but have you tried an even partially de-googled phone? It's not as simple as not using gmail and google maps. Lots of apps don't like MicroG, and MicroG free Android results in a small percentage of apps working. Google has done an amazing job of owning yet "not owning" Android.
- bennettnate5 5y ago
  I've been using a de-googled phone for about a year now (CalyxOS, uses MicroG) and I have yet to run into an app that behaves differently than when I used the stock OS for my Pixel. I've even tried downloading Google's apps and they work the same, no hiccups (Maps, Camera and Translate for me). CalyxOS includes a firewall that can disable network connectivity on a per-app basis, so one could even just use downloaded maps/translation sets with Google apps if they wanted. Again, this is just my personal experience--I'm sure there are apps out there that deliberately throw a fit when they detect a custom-signed OS running on your phone. I just have yet to see that in any of the banking, social media or productivity apps I've used.
  - loufe 5y ago
    I've been on CalyxOS with MicroG for a couple months now and unfortunately have had several apps which did not get along with MicroG. It's too bad but it's a decent compromise so far.
- uhtred 5y ago
  I use a completely de-googled phone OS - /e/. MicroG works great.
- Schroedingersat 5y ago
  Australia's covid app required googles services or apple Sign over your privacy or sit in the hole, peasant.

martin_a 5y ago

Well, I'm probably developing more and more into a grumpy mid-30s guy, but I'm just annoyed by all of this. Just let me use the browser I want and don't fuck around like this. Just let me have things the way I want, I will even accept that I have to fiddle with obscure settings and whatnot, but at least give me the option to have things the way I like them and give me the feeling that I have control over at least _something_. I have the feeling with every tech news, there's immediately something like "but you can only do it in that way because the developer/producer does not want you to do it another way". Don't know if I can keep up with all of this. Has anybody experience with switching from e-commerce & software to lumberjack?

judge2020 5y ago
This is only if you really want to be able to open different browsers depending on which link you click. You can still set the default to some other browser and forget it.
- martin_a 5y ago
  For how long, though? At some point Google just decides that Android only works with Chrome and users don't want anythign else (look at the data from A12 user base!) and removes that option, just like Apple did.
  - djrogers 5y ago
    > and removes that option, just like Apple did. Umm, no - Apple started without that option, but recently introduced it.
    - martin_a 5y ago
      Learned something new here thanks! edit: But is it "native" Firefox or just a different theme for Safari? I think I read somewhere in this thread, that you are bound to use Apples JS engine?!

nyanpasu64 5y ago

I've worked around this issue by installing "Open Link With" (https://f-droid.org/en/packages/com.tasomaniac.openwith.floss/ https://f-droid.org/en/packages/com.tasomaniac.openwith.flos..., https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.tasomaniac.openwith https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.tasomaniac...) and setting it as the default browser. Unfortunately its mechanism for setting browsers as default on a per-domain level has issues (can't open Reddit images and threads in separate apps). And a few years back, this app got slower and randomly spends a few seconds preparing a list of browsers, though I never debugged why it started happening.

antifa 5y ago
Interesting bug in fdroid's search, "Open Link With" returned no relevant results but "Open With" returned the expected app first.

astrea 5y ago

What is the rationale for opening different links in different browsers? Do some pages render better in other browsers?

slig 5y ago
There's no way to open links directly into an incognito tab, so I like to keep two browsers: one logged in in everything and another that I use to open random links from IM.
- cuteboy19 5y ago
  Firefox has that option, to open links directly in private mode
  - slig 5y ago
    Thanks, did not know that!

notjustanymike 5y ago

This is a nice time to point out Firefox for Android allows you to install uBlock Origin.

discardedrefuse 5y ago
The browser situation on Android sucks. I test every browser I try like this: Can it scroll through Imgur properly? Sadly, only Chrome and Brave pass this test (its been a while since I tried Edge, but it used to fail at this too). Luckily Brave has decent ad blocking built in.
- Sunspark 5y ago
  The best browser on Android is usually Samsung Internet Browser. It will work on non-Samsung devices. It has dark mode, it has adguard block addon, it's chromium, etc.
  - fartcannon 5y ago
    That doesn't sound good at all. I don't want a Samsung, adguard or chromium..
- jonnycomputer 5y ago
  Firefox for Android leaves much to be desired. But I still use it over Chrome.
- distances 5y ago
  I don't know why you would blame the browser and not Imgur for this.
  - discardedrefuse 5y ago
    Oh, I'm certain Imgur could fix this issue if they wanted to. But they would rather push users into their app, so that's never going to happen. I still think this is as good test because A) I use Imgur's website on mobile, and B) expecting all web sites to be correctly optimized is unrealistic. I prefer to use Brave and uninstall Chrome, than use Firefox with Chrome as a backup.

yosef123 5y ago

This has been happening for a while, my solution was to disable google chrome, and install chrome beta instead just to have a "chrome"

h3mb3 5y ago

I needed to read this a couple of times before understanding what's the issue. Interesting how differently people use their devices. For me instead, the #1 annoyance with Android 12 is that it doesn't support changing the default camera app anymore. I'm on Pixel 3, where Google Camera is artificially made shitty as the 60 fps option for the video is hidden. As a workaround, I've been running the Camera PX version of the app (from XDA Developers) which let's you change the fps and has other cool customization (while still keeping the best parts of Google Camera). Now this doesn't help as the "double tap the power button" shortcut always opens the subpar stock camera app.

akagusu 5y ago

A big corp being hostile to users and treating users like cattle? Nothing new here. People have been warned for years about this kind of s#it, but they were more interested in the free stuff offered by the big corp.

qiskit 5y ago
Seems to be the M.O. of these companies. Get a comfortable and safe/monopolistic position and then screw the users over. It's so funny how everything seems open and promising until they reach a certain size and then it suddenly starts to be restrictive and closed.

voz_ 5y ago

Yet another major reason to never use Android, the weaker, worse, less secure, less private OS.

ProAm 5y ago
Weaker and worse is arguable. There is so much more functionality available on Android than iOS, I can install whatever I'd like on my device, I can write any kind of app I choose to and install it on my device. I can organize my media files in any manner I wish to..... But yes less secure, and much less private. Android is essentially spyware for google.

LinAGKar 5y ago

YouTube does the same thing. If you have it set to ask when opening YouTube links, and the YouTube app is available for opening them, it will change the setting so the links always open in the YouTube app without asking.

mrtweetyhack 5y ago

juanci_to 5y ago

Didn't Microsoft had trouble in Russia for pushing Internet Explorer so much?