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I disagree that writing software is comparable to literacy. I think it's more similar to any other profession, with a skillset you can learn if you're interest

I disagree that writing software is comparable to literacy. I think it's more similar to any other profession, with a skillset you can learn if you're interested, or learn to get paid. Not everyone is interested in writing software, and that's fine. It has also never been easier to tinker with things, as root VMs are cheaply available, in comparison to 20 years ago, when you really were just given a cpanel interface, if you were on a budget.

verve_rat 5y ago
Not writing software, using it requires software literacy. How many people do you know that refuse to learn the software they use everyday? How many times have you helped a friend or colleague with some problem just by googling it even when you don't really understand what they do for a living? It's not that we need everyone to create software, but it would unlock huge productivity gains if everyone stopped pasting screen shots into word. Excel might be the most important knowledge tool of our time, and almost no one knows how to use it.
- andi999 5y ago
  Somehown I think the literature on excel is lacking. Do you know any reference which shows 'how to use it' in your sense?
  - sokoloff 5y ago
    I think learning has changed as well. It’s no longer a (traditional canonical) reference that’s most useful (though Microsoft surely has one on each version of excel) but rather “how do I formulate a search to help myself here?” Programmers have been doing GDD* for a while. Other knowledge workers will catch up or be left behind their peers. I use Excel weekly, but not daily. The last thing I remember googling in it was last week and it was (for the fiftieth time) “excel format as millions”. * Google Driven Development
  - criddell 5y ago
    Software used to come with big beautiful manuals. I remember getting Borland Quattro and the box was a cube because the manuals were so thick. I think there are a lot of benefits to printed references but for me the biggest was accidentally finding something cool while looking for something else.
- heurisko 5y ago
  > How many times have you helped a friend or colleague with some problem just by googling it even when you don't really understand what they do for a living? I think sometimes it is also the case of knowingly what to Google for, and being able to pick out the correct answer. For example, recently I was involved in a cache issue for an android phone. One of the answers on Google was to download some sort of cache cleaning program. Of course, I knew that this was likely to be a security risk, but others would have downloaded it. People are naturally wary about this thing, so sometimes I don't mind if they'd prefer not to Google and implement a solution themselves.
  - enraged_camel 5y ago
    >> I think sometimes it is also the case of knowingly what to Google for, and being able to pick out the correct answer. To me this is a part of literacy: how to know what to search for, and how to know which results are relevant.
- nicbou 5y ago
  This literacy is particularly important because people operate in a field fraught with coercive, user-hostile design and scammers.
flohofwoe 5y ago
IMHO software development is closest to research work. E.g. a software development company is much closer to a research institute or design center than an assembly line in a factory. Unfortunately in reality it's more often treated like a late-medieval manufactory, or at best a scriptorium in a monastery.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
AussieWog93 5y ago
>I think it's more similar to any other profession Could not disagree more. I run a small business selling used video games online, and come from a SWE/EEE background. The fact that we've got processes in place that are built from the ground up to be scalable and automatable, as well as the simple Python scripts to perform this automation has basically tripled or quadrupled our productivity. I could see much the same happening for a lot of workers who handle data, and as more people who have learned to code enter the workforce I'm not sure employers will continue to tolerate (for example) accountants who can't write their own report generators.
- lifeisstillgood 5y ago
  >>> accountants who can't write their own report generators. what a great way to put it
- gonzo41 5y ago
  I honestly think what you're describing will take about 25-50 more years to happen, if ever. Whilst people are getting smarter and more capable, HN is a bubble of people who'll put in the effort to do the stuff you're describing. Systems like SAP/Salesforce and other mega ERP and management systems are filling that space. I expect people will just be learning to live in ecosystems. Similar to whats happening with the cloud in the present day for developers.
- nradov 5y ago
  In large companies, accountants already spend much of their time building custom reports for management. A lot are in Excel, but other specialized tools are also common.
lordnacho 5y ago
Literacy is known at the top for things like the Iliad or the works of Shakespeare, but the major benefits are actually much more mundane, like allowing doctors to write prescriptions or being able to have instructions in a manual. Similarly, you may never write an OS or a AAA game, but being able to just automate a teeny tiny bit of your Excel spreadsheet, that's where software literacy will benefit the most people.
- lifeisstillgood 5y ago
  Exactly :-)
- datavirtue 5y ago
  And what you describe is what leads to innovation.
- xyzzy123 5y ago
  The first uses of literacy seem to be enabling beauracracy. Taxes, business records, laws, standardising things. The art stuff seems to have come later.
datavirtue 5y ago
Not everyone is interested in writing books...so no reason for them to learn to read or write.

verve_rat 5y ago

Not writing software, using it requires software literacy. How many people do you know that refuse to learn the software they use everyday? How many times have you helped a friend or colleague with some problem just by googling it even when you don't really understand what they do for a living? It's not that we need everyone to create software, but it would unlock huge productivity gains if everyone stopped pasting screen shots into word. Excel might be the most important knowledge tool of our time, and almost no one knows how to use it.

andi999 5y ago
Somehown I think the literature on excel is lacking. Do you know any reference which shows 'how to use it' in your sense?
- sokoloff 5y ago
  I think learning has changed as well. It’s no longer a (traditional canonical) reference that’s most useful (though Microsoft surely has one on each version of excel) but rather “how do I formulate a search to help myself here?” Programmers have been doing GDD* for a while. Other knowledge workers will catch up or be left behind their peers. I use Excel weekly, but not daily. The last thing I remember googling in it was last week and it was (for the fiftieth time) “excel format as millions”. * Google Driven Development
- criddell 5y ago
  Software used to come with big beautiful manuals. I remember getting Borland Quattro and the box was a cube because the manuals were so thick. I think there are a lot of benefits to printed references but for me the biggest was accidentally finding something cool while looking for something else.
heurisko 5y ago
> How many times have you helped a friend or colleague with some problem just by googling it even when you don't really understand what they do for a living? I think sometimes it is also the case of knowingly what to Google for, and being able to pick out the correct answer. For example, recently I was involved in a cache issue for an android phone. One of the answers on Google was to download some sort of cache cleaning program. Of course, I knew that this was likely to be a security risk, but others would have downloaded it. People are naturally wary about this thing, so sometimes I don't mind if they'd prefer not to Google and implement a solution themselves.
- enraged_camel 5y ago
  >> I think sometimes it is also the case of knowingly what to Google for, and being able to pick out the correct answer. To me this is a part of literacy: how to know what to search for, and how to know which results are relevant.
nicbou 5y ago
This literacy is particularly important because people operate in a field fraught with coercive, user-hostile design and scammers.

flohofwoe 5y ago

IMHO software development is closest to research work. E.g. a software development company is much closer to a research institute or design center than an assembly line in a factory. Unfortunately in reality it's more often treated like a late-medieval manufactory, or at best a scriptorium in a monastery.

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]

AussieWog93 5y ago

>I think it's more similar to any other profession Could not disagree more. I run a small business selling used video games online, and come from a SWE/EEE background. The fact that we've got processes in place that are built from the ground up to be scalable and automatable, as well as the simple Python scripts to perform this automation has basically tripled or quadrupled our productivity. I could see much the same happening for a lot of workers who handle data, and as more people who have learned to code enter the workforce I'm not sure employers will continue to tolerate (for example) accountants who can't write their own report generators.

lifeisstillgood 5y ago
>>> accountants who can't write their own report generators. what a great way to put it
gonzo41 5y ago
I honestly think what you're describing will take about 25-50 more years to happen, if ever. Whilst people are getting smarter and more capable, HN is a bubble of people who'll put in the effort to do the stuff you're describing. Systems like SAP/Salesforce and other mega ERP and management systems are filling that space. I expect people will just be learning to live in ecosystems. Similar to whats happening with the cloud in the present day for developers.
nradov 5y ago
In large companies, accountants already spend much of their time building custom reports for management. A lot are in Excel, but other specialized tools are also common.

lordnacho 5y ago

Literacy is known at the top for things like the Iliad or the works of Shakespeare, but the major benefits are actually much more mundane, like allowing doctors to write prescriptions or being able to have instructions in a manual. Similarly, you may never write an OS or a AAA game, but being able to just automate a teeny tiny bit of your Excel spreadsheet, that's where software literacy will benefit the most people.

lifeisstillgood 5y ago
Exactly :-)
datavirtue 5y ago
And what you describe is what leads to innovation.
xyzzy123 5y ago
The first uses of literacy seem to be enabling beauracracy. Taxes, business records, laws, standardising things. The art stuff seems to have come later.

datavirtue 5y ago

Not everyone is interested in writing books...so no reason for them to learn to read or write.