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The vintage beauty of Soviet control rooms (2018)
- bigfudge 5y agoIs it just me or is romanticising soviet era tech in weird if not actually bad taste just now?
- dillondoyle 5y agoI'm guessing this was posted because of the video of the Ukrainians asking the Russians to stop shelling the plant... ;( It looked exactly like this.
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- warning26 5y agoHonestly it's too bad that Putin's obsession with the Soviet era isn't at all focused on the things that were good about the Soviet Union. Things like this, or its space program. Instead, it's all the bad parts (territorial conquest) with none of the good.
- the-dude 5y agoThe program which supplies the ISS and ferries US astronauts, uhh cosmonauts, you mean? What about it? Or did you mean Afghanistan?
- warning26 5y agoRoscosmos, the space program that's still flying the exact same equipment that it did in the 60s and has made no efforts to improve since then? Yes, that one. Buran+Energia was a generational leap forward, and it all fell apart when the Soviet Union collapsed. Considering that I described territorial conquest as "bad", I think we can safely say I did not mean Afghanistan.
- lnsru 5y agoCould you please elaborate more on what was good about Soviet Union? Especially from local citizen’s perspective without having dollars in the pocked. Space program made them proud once in a while, but half empty shelves in grocery store were way more common.
- int_19h 5y agoFree college for everyone who can pass the entry exam, even in the most prestigious institutions like MSU or MIPT.
- p_l 5y agoTo be honest, Putin isn't much obsessed about Soviet era...
- kadoban 5y agoI'm going to go out on a limb and say that it's not the control rooms' fault that Putin is a warmonger.
- bigfudge 5y agoI agree. I don’t want to overstate it. But I guess im also squeamish about people into Ww2 merch too(it’s a thing in the uk… people dress up in 40s dresses and pretend the war is on). It seems a weird period to be rosy tinted about.
- dr_dshiv 5y agoHmm, I just saw “Red Dawn” last night, so this just balances things out.
- freetime2 5y agoI think it’s a fair question. Russia has put much of the world on edge right now, and has turned life into a waking nightmare for millions of Ukrainians. I could see how this romanticization of Soviet tech could be upsetting to some people. On the other hand, I think it’s healthy to take a step back and remember that even in dark times and people that you may hate, there are positive qualities. And even things like this that can be strangely beautiful.
- dr_dshiv 5y agoMaybe it’s actually a good idea for intelligent people to be curious about Russian ideas, design and history. Especially now. Seems like a treating the curiosity as “bad taste” could lead to unhealthy deliberate ignorance.
- scaramanga 5y agoI dunno, I come from an era where at the moment we were destroying Afghanistan, or Iraq, the BBC would be publishing articles about the various missiles we were using, marvelling at their technological sophistication. In one article it was said that "we mustn't forget that, above all, this is a JDAM war." Which is strange, cos I felt that, above all, it was a criminal and savage war of aggression with a tremendous human cost. I guess we don't all have the same sort of humanitarian feelings. Or a lot of us can quite easily put them aside. Which is fair enough, it is stressful to think about that after all. In the middle of all that is going on in bad taste right now (eg. Condoleeza Rice doing an overnight 180 and deciding wars of aggression are bad), this seems to hardly even register.
- p_l 5y agoCurrent events are, arguably, a refutation of soviet ideals (for all that they were often broken) and even practice - Putin explicitly talks in points related to Tsarist Imperial Russia, and a core argument of his invasion is that Ukrainians aren't a separate nation with separate language, and Ukraine "isn't a real country". Things that, for all the oppression, were accepted and obvious part of USSR - there was Ukrainian SSR, not Ukraine as region of Greater Russia. Even with effective forcing of Russian language for all technical uses, even Stalin at his worst dealt with USSR as union of many nations, even if some artificially created from displaced people (in order to create single-nation autonomous regions).
- warning26 5y agoCached version: http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:https://designyoutrust.com/2018/01/vintage-beauty-soviet-control-rooms/ http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:https:/...
- dr_dshiv 5y agoThanks, their site isn’t otherwise working.
- freetime2 5y agoWhen I was a kid, my parents took me on a tour of the Seabrook nuclear power plant. The thing that impressed me the most was the control room. I just couldn’t fathom how anybody could know what all the different buttons and dials did. Growing up and watching Homer in his role of safety inspector on the Simpsons only further reinforced that feeling. Now I’m a computer programmer and I feel like some of the projects I have worked on could make a nuclear reactor feel simple by comparison. I also have had many an occasion where I have felt like Homer Simpson.
- gerdesj 5y ago"Now I’m a computer programmer and I feel like some of the projects I have worked on could make a nuclear reactor feel simple by comparison." So you are faced with a certain amount of complexity. Do you really have any idea just how complicated a nuclear reactor (and associated engineering is)? Let's start off with a simple problem: You need a shit load of concrete in structures like this. At what sort of volumes does concrete curing become dangerous? It's exothermic and there is a danger of fire (yes fire) in a concrete structure that is poured too quickly. This is one small worry in the Civil Engineering bit. Geotechnics - ground stability across a large structure is a whopping set of problems. The sheer size of the thing will move the topsoil, subsoil, strata around. The distribution of water will change too. Now you have the Structural Engineers diving in. Some of the structures involved are huge and involve multiple materials. Nuclear plants are often near the sea for the water cooling benefits but you also get additional corrosion to think about, including concrete cancer and what salts do to steel and other metals. Also you generally get extra weather to worry about. I have not even scratched the surface of the complexities involved in designing, building and operating a nuclear power plant. Those two engineering disciplines I mentioned alone are at least three years at Uni for a degree and a good 5-10 years time served before you do anything close to critical.
- bombcar 5y agoBuilding and running are two different levels - a very complex setup to build can be very simple to actually use. Likely a large amount of complexity in these control setups is the lack of efficient screens for displaying data - compare a modern airliner to a 1960s.
- internet2000 5y agoHow likely is that none of those has been modernized?
- adenner 5y agoThey likely have computers in there now, but why mess with what works?
- FpUser 5y agoSo that some manager can claim an "improvement" and get promoted
- Const-me 5y agoAll components eventually fail. To maintain a system operational, one needs to be able to fix or replace failed components. Replacing a high-tech component made 50+ years ago (like a vacuum tube) can be prohibitively expensive even for military. At some point, it becomes cost efficient to replace the complete system, or at least large components, with modern equivalents.
- FpUser 5y agoYou mean replaced with some WP based site for the fist hacker to play with?
- lodovic 5y agoSome pictures have computer screens on them, one even has relatively modern tft monitors, which looks weird combined with the 50s atomic tech. It would not surprise me if these control rooms have never been updated and are still looking like this.
- pjc50 5y agoThere was purported present-day footage on tiktok of the control room of the Zaporizhzhia nuclear power plant in Ukraine that has just been captured by Russian forces. It looks like this.
- adenner 5y agoTo be fair, US reactors control rooms of that Era don't look too much different. https://mn70s.tumblr.com/post/32703269620/prairie-island-nuclear-power-plant-control-room/amp https://mn70s.tumblr.com/post/32703269620/prairie-island-nuc...
- sam_letter 5y agoDoes anybody know why the color scheme of the Soviet era was so "pale"?
- amelius 5y agoBecause nobody had to sell anything to their superiors.
- DaiPlusPlus 5y agoIn a related note, the Soviet Union had commercials on domestic TV to induce demand, just like everywhere else, but due to the different business-incentives in the Soviet system the end result are downright weird: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i6LAVk1sHW8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i6LAVk1sHW8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zzlzx8D4hYw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zzlzx8D4hYw It's the uncanny-valley of media.
- smegger001 5y agoI am pretty sure the chicken one is meant to induce nightmares
- nimbix 5y agoMany years ago I watched a documentary where it was said that pale mint green was often chosen for control panels because it was deemed it had a calming effect on the operators.
- R0b0t1 5y agoEveryone knows you gotta keep your peepers minty fresh
- lnsru 5y agoThere was no big choice of paint available to get. Soviets had other important spending like military back then. Who needs paint!?
- 5y ago
- pvg 5y agopast: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23334339 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23334339 '20, 268 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15369999 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15369999 '17, 67
- amelius 5y agoFixed buttons are usually a bad UI though. Better to use modern screens that show context, so you know which buttons are relevant at every moment in time.
- TedDoesntTalk 5y agoI disagree. That is precisely how vehicle touch screens became a nightmare.
- amelius 5y agoI didn't say they should be touch-screens. Tactile is not really relevant in most control rooms, where you want people to look at what they are doing anyway. Also, screen-based interfaces have more advantages, such as the ability to show documentation that is 1 hover/click away. And showing warnings with precise information, right where you are looking (rather than have a red light somewhere turning on, and you have to find it).
- yjftsjthsd-h 5y agoI think it's reasonable to at least partially overlap criticism; regardless of whether it's implemented in a touch screen, dynamically moving information, and doubly so controls, means that the user has to figure out where things are every time they use the interface. That's fine in some cases, but it's definitely a downside.
- TedDoesntTalk 5y agoI get then point about context-sensitive help and alarms. But what about the loss of muscle memory?
- hammock 5y agoAnd the Macbook Touch bar...
- WinterMount223 5y agoNot as reliable as physical buttons and you lose some tactile feedback.
- Animats 5y agoThat's pretty standard for the era, including the mimic board of the core.[1] If you like control board designs, probably the most elegant control boards ever built were the ones for the Panama Canal locks.[2] All that chrome and brass! Those towers are water level indicators. The long polished stone slabs represent the two lock lanes. The black diagonals across them represent the lock gates, and those follow the movements of the real gates. The "faucet handles" control the gate valves. The chromed things that look like jukebox stations show the positions of the gate valves. Everything is mechanically interlocked. Water levels have to match before a gate can be opened. There's an elaborate system of constraints, using mechanical railroad interlocking technology. That control system was in active use for almost a century. It was only replaced a few years ago, as part of a modernization that included replacing the valve and gate drive systems. [1] https://images.seattletimes.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/06/a1d1ece6-33f7-11e6-a9f6-8dc17dcc3f94.jpg?d=2040x1218 https://images.seattletimes.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/06/a... [2] https://www.flickr.com/photos/jundai/6525675045 https://www.flickr.com/photos/jundai/6525675045
- Forgeties79 5y agoFrom [2] > For some reason, though, the plant’s owner, Northern States Power, never got around to informing the residents of the neighboring Prairie Island Indian Community that something had gone wrong. Oof. Thank god it turned out ok in the end.
- 542458 5y agohttps://www.nytimes.com/1979/10/03/archives/reactor-spews-radioactive-steam.html https://www.nytimes.com/1979/10/03/archives/reactor-spews-ra... Yeah, max dose at site boundary was 0.1 millirem. Sounds like it was a relatively minor release.
- sandworm101 5y agoOr the weather was just right to spread it out across a wide enough area. Maybe with still air it might have been more concentrated.
- tpmx 5y agoFlagged: the site isn't responding to HTTP requests.
- throwawayboise 5y agoI like how these old control panels often lay out the switches and gauges on a schematic representation of the physical system. Makes it easier to visualize the electrical or fluid flows that are being controlled and monitored, and helps the operators think about which valves or switches need to be opened or closed to change the state of the system.
- hammock 5y agoControl rooms/interfaces still do this, even if the schematics are now digitally represented on a screen. I've seen these at chemical plants
- tiahura 5y agoIf Nazi kitsch is taboo, shouldn’t fawning over Soviet design be as well?
- kabes 5y agoIs Nazi kitsch taboo? I've seen a few documentaries about it on public television throughout the years.
- tiahura 5y agoLet me know when you see a Nazi item on Antiques Roadshow, and its banned on EBay.
- smcl 5y agoThe thing is you might be hard pushed to find some uniquely Nazi design people would consider worth fawning over, I think they were very backwards-looking and I imagine they weren't particularly interested in developing some bold new design or architectural style. Only thing I can think of is their famous Hugo Boss uniforms, but that's inextricably linked to their military and the genocide they committed so thankfully I don't think the public at large are very interested in fawning over that even if neo-Nazis get a kick out of it. I guess if we include the symbols, in Europe the swastika is gonna be taboo for my lifetime at least given that it is effectively THE symbol of genocidal hatred. Hammer and sickle is a little more complex - it is connected to a broader international workers movement so I think it’s less tainted in many places. It doesn't help that Nazism was almost single-mindedly focussed on white supremacy and domination, it was their entire thing during their existence. The Soviet Union had its own atrocities and repression, but these weren't the single guiding principle behind the project overall. That's no comfort for the victims of the USSR (I don't think the Hammer & Sickle will be popular in Czech Republic, for example) but there it is. It also depends what you mean by "kitsch" - if we broaden it a bit to include interest in engineering like guns, tanks and planes then this is not taboo (see Ian McCollum aka "Forgotten Weapons" on YouTube who has covered a few Nazi weapons over the years).
- Biganon 5y agoCommunism was not built, as an ideology, on the hatred and total destruction of an ethnic group. Stop with the false analogies please.
- Borrible 5y agoPeople love that sort of aesthetic sentimentality. Techno Kitsch and former glory. "Anyone who doesn't regret the passing of the Soviet Union has no heart. Anyone who wants it restored has no brains." Vladimir Putin A reason he may have opted for the previous model. --- https://culturemachine.net/vol-16-drone-cultures/the-control-room/ https://culturemachine.net/vol-16-drone-cultures/the-control... Have to study Carl Schmitt again about that unholy communion of sentimentality and inhumanness in the idea of the Reich. Putin is fond of it. https://www.illiberalism.org/interview-with-david-lewis/ https://www.illiberalism.org/interview-with-david-lewis/
- kabes 5y ago> People love that sort of aesthetic sentimentality. Techno Kitsch. If I'm fully honest with myself, this is the main reason I'm spending way too much money on modular synthesizers
- Borrible 5y agoOh, that's fine. "History Doesn't Repeat Itself, but It Often Rhymes" – Mark Twain. “Hegel remarks somewhere that all great, world-historical facts and personages occur, as it were, twice. He has forgotten to add: the first time as tragedy, the second as farce.” Karl Marx, The Eighteenth Brumaire of Louis Bonaparte It maybe the other way round this time. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DMoCM_FgLP8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DMoCM_FgLP8
- song 5y agoBlogspam, here's the original url http://blog.presentandcorrect.com/27986-2 http://blog.presentandcorrect.com/27986-2 With and ad blocker, the new url is better formatted but man, the number of ads if you disable the ad blocker...
- collyw 5y agoThese seem to be a hardware version of what we now have in user interfaces on a screen. Does anyone know of the likelihood of faults with hardware compared to software bugs?
- Daub 5y agoFor a counterpoint, check out this collection of guages and dials and ails from texture.com. My favorite texture and visual reference site. Some of them are wonderfully decayed. https://www.textures.com/browse/gauges/1731 https://www.textures.com/browse/gauges/1731