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I don't think this legislation will happen. As part of the technocratic agenda, it is integral that all energy usage, water usage, etc is managed. For this to
by verisimi 5y ago
I don't think this legislation will happen.
As part of the technocratic agenda, it is integral that all energy usage, water usage, etc is managed. For this to work, there needs to be 'kill switches'. Like the one's Biden has required new cars to have by 2025.
Technocrats want to (micro) manage everyone's usage of everything. The green agenda is the main sales pitch given for this, but also look out for needing to log on to go online because of ... terrorists, Russian internet attacks, child abuse, etc.
We are coding ourselves into dystopia.
- SpicyLemonZest 5y agoDo... they? I follow a lot of people who I think you'd consider supporters of technocracy, and I've never seen anyone argue that it's good or important to have central monitoring of people's oven usage.
- verisimi 5y agoThey want to monitor everything. Smart electricity meters provide this functionality. Smart = spy. Eg, 'spy phones'.
- SpicyLemonZest 5y agoBut you skipped right past the main part of my question. Who are "they"? Do you have a particular person or group in mind who thinks smart ovens are good because it's important to spy on everyone's oven usage? I ask because I'm worried you've fallen into a common rhetorical trap, conflating everything you don't like into a singular conspiracy and presuming that there must be some group somewhere who's dedicated to promoting it.
- verisimi 5y agoYou can read all about 'their' plans in many places. I would start at the WEF's web site. The only thing I would suggest, is that you consider that when they are talking about stakeholders etc, you need to realise that they are not talking about the people - they are talking from the perspective of companies. (You are the steak, they are the steakholders, lol.) The same companies that pay lobbyists to write legislation etc, for the governments that purport to serve the people. These companies are owned by someone - who they are, we can't know. Unfortunately for us, a lot of the ownership details are hidden by offshore tax-exempt vehicles, etc.
- nicoburns 5y agoSmart electricity meters seems very different to smart ovens. The state has a valid reason to be interested in your enter because they run the grid and need to manage load. They have no valid interest in what your running with that electricity.
- Mountain_Skies 5y agoWasn't one of the first things they used this data for was to find people with grow-ops in their basements?
- sobkas 5y ago> Wasn't one of the first things they used this data for was to find people with grow-ops in their basements? And in some cases instead of pot they found crypto mining rigs.
- calumetregion 5y agoPlease read all of Neil Postman's work immediately. It's much bigger than the oven. Thank you.
- verisimi 5y agoAnd did you know that Elon Musk's grandfather was a top technocrat in Canada? https://www.technocracy.news/shock-elon-musks-grandfather-was-head-of-canadas-technocracy-movement/ https://www.technocracy.news/shock-elon-musks-grandfather-wa...
- ConceptJunkie 5y agoEveryone is so gung ho about all the companies that are throwing kill switches to Russia, and I'm just waiting for those same companies to start doing the same thing to anyone they want, for any reason. It's already happening.
- bluefirebrand 5y agoHappened in Canada not even that long ago, and many people cheered about that too.
- hn_version_0023 5y agoI’m curious about the specifics here. Could you provide a link or summarize? Thank you kindly :)
- _dain_ 5y agoThey froze the accounts of people at the protests without due process, and passed legislation to let them to it to anyone who supported them "directly or indirectly". i.e. carte blanche to send anyone into digital/financial exile with no recourse. they repealed it soon after (I think), but the door is open for them or any other government to do it again.
- sangnoir 5y agoSeizing funds suspected to be linked to criminal activity during investigations (before any charges) is nothing new. Those who are being targeted today had no complaints 20 years ago when similar clauses where written into anti-terror/anti-terror-funding laws
- nyanpasu64 5y agoThe problem isn't seizing donations, it's freezing the entire bank accounts of people connected to donations.
- sdoering 5y agoLet me be the one to challenge your claim of the enforced "Kill Switch" [0]. [0]: https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/infrastructure-bill-track-drivers/ https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/infrastructure-bill-track-... Especially stating that this is an eco-agenda is imho either misinformation or willfully partisan.
- verisimi 5y agoIts a control agenda. The eco-agenda is the provided pretext that will mean we willingly accept what is offered, in the name of saving the planet.
- MrYellowP 5y agoSave the planet for the children!
- mistrial9 5y ago"a control agenda" is one (landmine) label meant to represent a set of complex interactions; this kind of drastic oversimplification is daily fodder for politics, but literally destructive to actual fact-based inquiry leading to effective policy. Similar arguments have been made regarding product safety and hygiene requirements by "government" !
- mindslight 5y agoExcept that such all-or-nothing logic is completely appropriate when talking about security of computational domains. Taking a device that is supposedly mine and configuring it to work against my interests repudiates the idea that I am the owner of it. Rather than representing my interests, it is now an agent of someone else's top-down policy. And if enough people modify "their" devices to remove such restrictions, then there's a good chance that even more systems of control get deployed to prevent them from doing so.
- gkop 5y agoI was under the impression people are buying Teslas voluntarily, not because it’s mandated by the government.
- causality0 5y agoEven the most reasonable people can't make the argument when the direction is so wildly independent of reality. For example, water usage limits on dishwashers that make people run the cycle twice and end up using more water and more electricity than the old ones.
- recursive 5y agoI find dryers are particularly bad at this. Mine has 5 levels of dry-ness. Even on "ultra dry" the clothes usually come out damp. So I run "ultra dry" twice. Lol.
- dvtrn 5y agoI had a roommate who used to do this (thus sending our utility bill up along with some other power wasting habits), and I once asked them the question I'm about to ask now: other than for moments when you plan on wearing something as soon as it comes out of the dryer, what prevents one from using the normal dry cycle, and then letting whatever garments that don't get completely 100% dried-air dry in the closet or up on hangers on a shower pole or something?
- hollerith 5y agoMold will grow on damp cotton clothes -- not enough to see with the naked eye, but some people are more sensitive.
- wtallis 5y agoAlso important: some people live in areas with higher ambient humidity than other areas. If you live in an area where swamp coolers are a viable option in the summer, then of course you'll have trouble understanding why some people don't see hanging up damp clothes to be a reasonable option.
- recursive 5y agoWhen you put these in a drawer, they don't dry. They get moldy.
- omginternets 5y agoYou're not wrong, but that's still what needs to happen.
- JaimeThompson 5y agoWhere in the bill does it mention kill switches for cars? https://www.govtrack.us/congress/bills/117/hr3684/text https://www.govtrack.us/congress/bills/117/hr3684/text https://www.congress.gov/bill/117th-congress/house-bill/3684/text https://www.congress.gov/bill/117th-congress/house-bill/3684...
- crooked-v 5y agoThat's probably intended to refer to 24220.c, but overlooks that the "advanced drunk and impaired driving prevention technology" prescribed for new cars 2025 and later is described in terms that are functionally identical to the driver awareness monitoring safety systems that already exist in high-end new cars right now.
- JaimeThompson 5y agoThank you.
- MrYellowP 5y ago> Technocrats want to (micro) manage everyone's usage of everything. You've spelt "Totalitarians" wrong. This is totalitarianism. This isn't just micromanagement. This is about total control. There's signs of totalitarianism all over the place, including US-culture itself. How kids are being raised. What they're being taught in school. How people behave towards each other.
- rolandog 5y ago>Technocrats want to (micro) manage everyone's usage of everything. From Collins English dictionary: "A technocrat is a scientist, engineer, or other expert who is one of a group of similar people who have political power as well as technical knowledge." I think you're conflating 'technocrats' with 'greedy people'. I'm not saying people with technical knowledge and political power cannot be evil. What I'm saying is it doesn't require any special skill to be really greedy.
- Mountain_Skies 5y agoTechnocrat has a common usage beyond what that particular dictionary has written. For politicians, it often means one who has a strong belief in the benefit of ruling by data (regardless of the accuracy of that data) and making use of technology to achieve their goals. The politician does not need to be an expert in the data nor the technology used to rule in a technocratic manner. They are often advised by those who do meet the dictionary definition, though it is worth pointing out that technocrats are humans and subject to the same biases and ethical and moral failings as everyone else.
- faeriechangling 5y agoI tend to see technocracy as rule by the scientifically trained, by technologists, by career civil servants, by industry, and by institutions. Technocrats gain their credibility as legitimate leaders from the approval of institutions like academia and industry in contrast to leaders whose legitimacy is directly based off of popular approval. Technocrats are often leading from behind the scenes and driving actual government policy despite being unelected. I don't see technocrats as having the same biases, ethical and moral failings as everybody else, I think they're rather unique on all those points, and this is at the very core of what is good and bad about technocracy. When I think of a classic technocratic decision, I think of Margaret Thatcher closing down coal mines while crushing any union resistance, a technocrat-approved decision, and it significantly aided the economic success of Britain under Thatcher. Yet it exacerbated inequality and divisions within Britain that persist to this day. The severity of this fallout was blindingly obvious to the average northerner but it caught the average technocrat off-guard (decades of political ill-will tends not to be part of models), whom still lack effective solutions to resolve the issue, and the issue will drag down Britain for quite some time.