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Rossiya – Special Flight Squadron Flight RSD88 from St Petersburg to Washington
- jaynetics 5y agoAre they coming to pick up expelled diplomats?
- vbezhenar 5y agoYes.
- sandstrom 5y agoYes, though they were spies under diplomat cover. The US has the same setup in Moscow too though. Among "non-friendly countries" it's common that close to half of embassy staff are actually spies or at least 'intelligence analysts'.
- lawlorino 5y agoDo you have a source for that? Edit: seems people misread my intention, I am challenging the parent response because it reads like something out of a spy novel with nothing to back it up.
- vagrantJin 5y agoWhere do you get a complete list of spies and their activities if you do not work for covert operations government agency ala Edward Snowden?
- toomanyrichies 5y agoYour comment is valid- it’s likely unreasonable to expect evidence for this claim in particular to be furnishable. That said, if OP can’t provide evidence for the percentages they mention, perhaps the bigger problem is that they shouldn’t have made the claim in the first place.
- epgui 5y agoIt’s true even of friendly countries.
- robin_reala 5y agoYep. See Harry Dunn’s manslaughter for an example of a US spy in the UK under the pretense of diplomatic cover. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Harry_Dunn https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Harry_Dunn
- mike-the-mikado 5y agoA CIA employee working at listening station based at an RAF base in the UK (presumably listening into transmissions from e.g. Russia) is rather different from spies based at the Russian embassy in Washington.
- rjsw 5y agoAnne Sacoolas, who killed Harry Dunn, was not working at the RAF base. She had also not been declared as a CIA employee to the UK government.
- nradov 5y agoYou've got to be kidding? There are no reliable sources on numbers of spies, by definition.
- aceazzameen 5y agoNot OP, but I read about this in a book by an ex-CIA guy a long time ago. I think even friendly nations do it to each other too. It's like an unwritten rule to have spies in embassies. Of course, I don't know how much was sensationalized, but it somewhat makes sense to keep tabs on everyone else if everyone is doing it. Also, this is why counter-intelligence exists in every nation. Watching embassies is part of what they do.
- progre 5y ago‘... spies?' I thought we were chums with the Low King!’ 'Of course we are,’ said Vetinari. ‘And the more we know about each other, the friendlier we shall remain. We’d hardly bother to spy on our enemies. What would be the point?’
- AniseAbyss 5y agoNothing wrong with spying, it keeps the world safe in a way if your intelligence agency can tell you the enemy isn't planning a sneak attack.
- rurban 5y agoNot really. If they would not act criminally they would not need diplomatic cover. Most of the "spies" there are actually agent handlers, i.e. handling native agents, infiltrating unions, press, police, army, government. Spying is mostly not passively writing reports of intelligence matters, it's mostly actively pursuing criminal acts. Writing wrong press articles, social media posts, paying natives to do something illegal, killing union folks, torturing students. The passive agents writing the innocent intelligence reports are usually not under diplomatic cover. They are under some commercial cover mostly. As with Israel also arts and students. There are tons of CIA books.
- NelsonMinar 5y agoThis discussion has gone poorly but I think it's a totally fair question to ask for a source. I can't find anything to corroborate the "close to half" number but here's a couple of articles about diplomatic staff being spies. https://www.bbc.com/news/newsbeat-43556816 https://www.bbc.com/news/newsbeat-43556816 https://apnews.com/article/north-america-ap-top-news-wa-state-wire-politics-united-states-985f444da7dd42c5b3b8abc422a977b8 https://apnews.com/article/north-america-ap-top-news-wa-stat...
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- engineer_22 5y agoWhy have an embassy staffed full of people in a foreign country if not gather information? "Spy" is used sort of loosely here, I think.
- kingcharles 5y agoYes, the words they always use are embassy personnel conducting "non-diplomatic activities" https://twitter.com/AFP/status/1498392471851741202 https://twitter.com/AFP/status/1498392471851741202 The spy world isn't opaque. Each country knows who most of the spies are. They generally operate out of special sections of the primary embassy in each country. Almost all spies act under diplomatic cover so that they have immunity when they get caught. Operating without that cover is a risky mission which normally means your host country can't save you and will deny you. Each country just allows the spies to pretty much go about their business, follows them from the embassy when they can, and then uses them as pawns when necessary, like this.
- cutemonster 5y agoWhen the other country knows already that they are spies, doesn't that make their job harder? What can they actually get done, I wonder
- amaranth 5y agoYou either feed them junk so they waste time filtering out the good intel from the bad, use them as a communications backchannel, or both.
- toyg 5y ago> though they were spies under diplomat cover Pretty much all diplomats are spies, whether officially or unofficially. Their work involves learning and understanding things about the counterpart, openly or otherwise, and reporting their findings. The main difference is that the official spooks take more risks and carry out more direct action. > Among "non-friendly countries" Among all countries. Any embassy of note (say, US in Germany, or French in Algeria, etc) hosts at least a few actual spooks at any given time.
- tus666 5y agoWhy would the US pick return its diplomats in a Russian il96? That website is amazing too, I am surprised so much data is publicly available.
- ncallaway 5y agoThe US doesn't pick a flight. The US says: "You're not welcome, you have XX hours to leave the country". The diplomatic personnel have to figure out their own ride home. Normally that's fine (private charter flight, commercial, whatever), but in this case there are few (no?) flights to Russia, and the Russian's can't fly there due to airspace restrictions. So in this case, Russia asked for a special exemption to the US airspace restriction so it could get its personnel out. The US said "fine", and the Russians are flying the IL-96 in to pick up its personnel
- Symbiote 5y agoThe FAA ban has an exception for diplomatic flights: "EXCEPT ... STATE AIRCRAFT OPERATIONS GRANTED A DIPLOMATIC CLEARANCE BY THE U.S. DEPARTMENT OF STATE" There are commercial options, e.g. flying to Turkey, the Middle East, China, India etc and taking a connecting flight to Moscow. But Russia probably doesn't want a large group of their spies and families travelling together on a commercial flight.
- mike_d 5y agoFlightRadar24, FlightAware, etc. are actually heavily censored. As a recipient of FAA radar data they have to agree to remove planes owned by rich people and corporations that don't want to be publicly visible. https://www.faa.gov/nextgen/equipadsb/privacy/ https://www.faa.gov/nextgen/equipadsb/privacy/ ADSBExchange.com does not accept FAA data or process any removal requests.
- nickphx 5y agoThat's not how ADSB works.. FlightRadar/FlightAware do not have an "FAA Radar feed", they have a network of rtlSDRs listening for ADSB traffic. They offer the removal of the public display of flights, you can still purchase a commercial account to view them.. https://flightaware.com/adsb/flightfeeder/ https://flightaware.com/adsb/flightfeeder/
- jonasenordin 5y agoIt seems that the plane had to go all the way around the closed airspaces of Finland and Norway (well, Scandinavia) to reach the Atlantic. Or maybe it's the projection.
- mjlee 5y agohttps://www.greatcirclemap.com/?routes=LED-IAD https://www.greatcirclemap.com/?routes=LED-IAD - doesn't looks like it was because of the great circle route.
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- nirav72 5y agoMost aircrafts traveling west from Asia or Eurasia on a direct flight take a polar route to get to North America. If not over the north pole, at least as close to artic circle as possible.
- georgecmu 5y agoThe usual route from Moscow and St. Petersburg to the Eastern seaboard is over Norway and Greenland, but since the EU airspace is closed to Russian flights, the routes to e.g Cancun, Punta Cana, Porlamar, etc. have to take a detour over Kola Peninsula and the fly over the Atlantic parallel to the North American coast. The detour adds maybe 30 minutes to the flight time. The reciprocal closure of Russian airspace over Siberia to European and US airlines has a bigger impact on cross-continental flights. The London-Tokyo has been trending in the news, since it's now 3 hours longer and has to go over Alaska, [but I think the bigger impact is on nonstop flights like Washington, DC - New Delhi. These must be completely non-viable now for US carriers.] edit: Chicago - Delhi was not actually routed over Siberia and is only 1.5 hours longer now: https://www.flightradar24.com/data/flights/ua898 https://www.flightradar24.com/data/flights/ua898
- josefrichter 5y agoSiberia?
- belter 5y agoThis is a Russian government Ilyushin currently en route from St. Petersburg to Washington. As the United States has a Russia flight ban, assumptions are that the airplane has special authorization. Last three flights of this airplane: 04 Mar 2022 Moscow (VKO) - St. Petersburg (LED) 03 Mar 2022 Brest (Belarus)(BQT) - Moscow (VKO) 02 Mar 2022 Moscow (VKO) - Brest (Belarus) (BQT)
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- belter 5y agoThey are heading back...after a short flight to JFK. Estimated departure 5:10 PM: 06 Mar 2022 New York (JFK) - Moscow (VKO) IL96
- jacquesm 5y agoThis is what this is all about: https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2022/2/28/us-expelling-russian-diplomats-from-un-mission-in-new-york https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2022/2/28/us-expelling-russia... Interesting that even with the special authorization the plane was not given permission to transit EU airspace.
- throwthere 5y agoIt’s probably simply just easier to fly around then ask for permission.
- anjel 5y agoLost on the news cycle but rich in the subtle language of diplomacy was that notice of the expulsion was delivered while the Russian senior diplomat was conducting a press conference. https://youtu.be/yLaX-035hOo?t=161 https://youtu.be/yLaX-035hOo?t=161
- mechanical_bear 5y agoThey were informed beforehand. He took that call from one of his cronies in order to make a point that the US is the one violating international norms, etc. by PNGing those Russian diplomats. (Which is nonsense, given the context.)
- NicoJuicy 5y agoWhat a coincidence, that's the first time I see a diplomat taking a call during a live press conference. "Sorry, I have to take this"
- secondcoming 5y agoThe live tracker: https://www.flightradar24.com/RSD088/2b07dd1e https://www.flightradar24.com/RSD088/2b07dd1e
- Scoundreller 5y ago> No U.S airlines currently fly into any Russian cities, and those that flew over Russia's vast airspace to Asia had already been rerouting out of an abundance of caution. That adds time and burns a lot more fuel, increasing costs. Yes and no. If you add a refueling stop to a long-haul flight, it can save enough fuel to make up for the rerouting. (Long-haul flying is really inefficient because you have to take-off/carry all the fuel needed to make it to your destination). e.g. a flight from NYC-Paris-Delhi is only 5.5% longer distance than direct, even though it now routes over europe instead of a direct polar route over Russia http://www.gcmap.com/mapui?P=nyc-del,+nyc-cdg-del http://www.gcmap.com/mapui?P=nyc-del,+nyc-cdg-del (This isn't perfect, it still shows a bit of routing over Russia, but you get the idea). And you still have staffing costs, landing costs, etc. Weather related routings, night-time landing restrictions, etc.
- messe 5y ago> Yes and no. If you add a refueling stop to a long-haul flight, it can save enough fuel to make up for the rerouting. (Long-haul flying is really inefficient because you have to take-off/carry all the fuel needed to make it to your destination). It seems obvious, but I always forget that the rocket equation applies in aviation as well. The massive difference in fuel efficiencies when you get your oxidizer for free tends to overshadow it.
- Scoundreller 5y agoAnd using smaller airframes (because you can run smaller/lighter fuel tanks, along with lower drag) can add to those efficiency gains: > the total fuel consumption of a 7,200 NM flight can be reduced by up to 15% by making an intermediate stop half way, while using conventional existing long-haul aircraft. When the aircraft is specifically designed for medium-range operations (such as e.g. the Airbus A300), the total fuel savings could increase to 27%. From: "Evaluation of intermediate stop operations in long-haul flights" NYC to Delhi is at 6400 NM.
- sigmoid10 5y agoThe rocket equation doesn't apply here, because planes don't just get their oxidizer for free, they get the whole reaction mass as well. So they generate forward momentum in a different way. Additionally, once a plane reaches cruising altitude, the only energy losses are due to air resistance, because the lift vector from the wings and the gravitational pull are antiparallel to each other and perpendicular to the direction of motion. The commenter above is still correct though, because the energy needed during ascent is proportional to mass times height. So if you can cut the fuel in half by limiting the total range, you can save a huge amount of energy (i.e. fuel) during ascent.
- heikkilevanto 5y agoMaybe it has a special permission, to evacuate embassy personnel or such. Maybe it also carries a small nuke.
- ncallaway 5y agoIt has special permission to evacuate embassy personal.
- bengalister 5y agoWe can still see: * a private jet flying from Munich(UPEM008) to Moscow * a commercial flight leaving Moscow to Berlin (Bulgarian Air LZBRU) * a private jet flying over Lithuania from Moscow (4XCUZ) and * a RAF aircraft (RRR7240) patrolling over Poland close to the Ukrainian border * An Istanbul to Minsk flight (Belavia 2784) flying east over Georgia, then far east from Volgograd then west to Minsk
- glogla 5y agoI just saw Boeing C-32 (e.g. the Air Force Two) fly from Poland to Moldova. I wonder what that is about.
- pcardoso 5y agoPerhaps this? https://www.reuters.com/world/us/top-us-diplomat-blinken-go-baltics-brussels-poland-this-week-state-dept-2022-03-02/ https://www.reuters.com/world/us/top-us-diplomat-blinken-go-...
- chinathrow 5y agoThere is a shitload of mil aircraft up in the air at any time of the day now but more during european daytime. Just head over to the uncensored flight tracking site ADSBExchange. https://globe.adsbexchange.com/?mil https://globe.adsbexchange.com/?mil
- Mo3 5y agoAh okay. Sounds like we need more „special economic operations“ then
- CodeWriter23 5y agohttps://fair.org/home/calling-russias-attack-unprovoked-lets-us-off-the-hook/ https://fair.org/home/calling-russias-attack-unprovoked-lets...
- swasheck 5y agoodd that this is downvoted. it’s an unpopular, but necessary, perspective to hear presented (mostly) rationally. i disagree with a few of its foundational premises, but then, it disagrees with some of mine (e.g. Nato intransigence on its “open door policy”) and that’s ok. i appreciate the read and is a good corrective to the putin-as-hitler madman narrative.
- josefrichter 5y agoI am wondering if they were accompanied by US fighter jets while over the US soil?