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SpaceX reprioritized to cyber defense and overcoming signal jamming
- GoOnThenDoTell 5y agoDoes this imply that they’re currently being jammed in Ukraine?
- octoberfranklin 5y agoThis probably refers to GPS jamming.
- chinathrow 5y agoNo, that would not make any sense. This is about Starlink signal jamming.
- mlindner 5y agoApparently yes: https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1500026380704178178 https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1500026380704178178
- extheat 5y agoIt always amazes me how seemingly complex hardware problems can be fixed in software with the right amount of work. It's a bit similar to where we are in AI I think, with very advanced and capable hardware but just needs the correct software to be able to fully exploit all the hardware capabilities.
- mlindner 5y agoI'd assume in this case it's more reprogramming of something like a DSP or an FPGA so in effect the hardware is getting modified more so than the software.
- ChuckMcM 5y agoI wouldn't be surprised if someone developed a jammer for starlink. Given the signal levels and the relative receptivity their antenna has to signals coming from the sides (a common problem I'm told of phased arrays where the array edges are not benefiting from antennas on one side) one could presumably just barrage jam at the downlink frequencies. Of course you would either need to be really 'loud' or pretty close to do that. I also felt it kind of a dick move to "brag" about giving Ukraine Starlink terminals on social media as it informs your adversaries that you have another channel they have to go out and shut down. Much better (in my opinion of course) to keep it as discreet as possible so that opponents are guessing.
- JoshTriplett 5y agoThey were requested publicly on social media. If they were requested privately, it would indeed have been terrible opsec to respond publicly.
- genuine_smiles 5y agoGiving companies the green light to brag about help provided might also encourage others to help for PR reasons. More help, even a little, might be more important than being covert.
- antihero 5y agoInterested in the idea of Elon Musk and discretion.
- 37ef_ced3 5y agoThe goal is publicity. The brag is the most important thing. Just like with the Thai cave rescue.
- extheat 5y agoUkraine gov't specifically asked for it, publically. And of course, Russia government responded with anger. "Publicity" is naive. Unquestionably what Elon is doing now is provocative to Russia (and the handful of pro-Russia countries), but at a time when most places don't want to be friends with Russia, it's great PR but more importantly, it has real effects for people on the ground. It sends materialistic support and and condemnation which encourages others to follow suit.
- jdrc 5y agomusk also twitted that he won't block russian media as requested. Starlink is probably a great intelligence tool and obviously will never be turned off, on or anything . He s basically utilizing the importance of starlink to US army to promote his absolutist free speech view. not bad
- extheat 5y agoISPs absolutely should not be in the business of filtering content. At least, not in any country that respects even basic free speech.
- londons_explore 5y agoIf starlink is to be successful, I see it pivoting to being a service provider for ISP's. Then the ISP's can apply whatever filtering or prioritization they require to meet local laws or their business requirements. But the customer would be free to move to another ISP which has different rules.
- andrewinardeer 5y agoCall me old fashioned yet known CSAM sites in my opinion should be blocked at the ISP level.
- mschuster91 5y agoTo the best of my knowledge, dedicated CSAM sites in the clearnet have all but gone - every hoster in the world will cut you off for that, even the "bulletproof" hosters that claim to ignore piracy and dealing in stolen credentials all ban CSAM and legal-but-close content like "lolita" etc. simply because of the attention it draws from law enforcement. They're all on TOR now, and even there they get regularly busted due to shoddy opsec.
- mlindner 5y agoThere's plenty of drawn lolita imagery easily publicly available on the clear net. Primarily because it's legal in many countries. Often times it's only filtered behind going into a settings menu and hitting a checkbox, but usually not even that. Example: Almost any of the various image booru sites have it, usually behind a checkbox.
- modeless 5y agoThe satellite part of the Starlink system is practically invulnerable to physical attack because there are so many satellites in different orbits. Hitting them all would require a prohibitively large number of rocket launches. Not to mention that attacking US satellites would probably be an act of war. The best way to attack the system might be to hack the user terminals, which Russia apparently already did to Viasat terminals located in Ukraine at the start of the invasion. SpaceX is now in direct opposition to the Russian military and is going to be attacked just as Viasat was. They need to especially make sure that the command and control systems for the satellites are bulletproof. I wonder if existing anti radiation missiles would be able to lock onto Starlink user terminals. If not, I expect that feature will be developed soon. It's well known that the US military has been investigating using Starlink so I'm sure other militaries have been thinking about countermeasures.
- noitpmeder 5y agoI'd imagine it's trivial for a motivated nation state to locate the ground stations -- they definitely seem easier targets for physical attacks.
- modeless 5y agoI believe the ground stations are located in NATO countries so Russia better not try attacking them... Attacking ground stations could degrade or deny service to nearby areas with the current Starlink system. But V2 will be able to route signals between satellites in space in areas where ground stations are missing, so that won't work in the future.
- mitchs 5y agoIMO the motivated state wouldn't go through the trouble to attack sites physically when they could just DDOS spacex's public IPs. It isn't like their IP address blocks are a secret, and it wouldn't be that hard to narrow it down to the ones that route to Europe.
- r_hoods_ghost 5y ago
- skybrian 5y agoAnother episode in “Musk tweets stuff and other people try to figure out what he meant.” I don’t think it’s worth republishing unless he clarifies.
- noindiecred 5y agoAbso freaking lutely. These statements (so common for him) are way too cryptic and open to so many different interpretations. I guess firing all his PR/comms staff is going well?
- panick21_ 5y agoSpaceX didn't fire its comms staff ...
- hackerfromthefu 5y agoIdk it seems pretty clear if you have a bit of context of what is being discussed - he's pointing out that there are techniques to locate the dishes, that Russia could use to physically locate/attack Starlink users in Ukraine.
- mlindner 5y agoUpdate: https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1500026380704178178 https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1500026380704178178 They were being jammed.
- andy_ppp 5y agoI wish Elon would learn to be more tactful with his tweets. We need to make sure we work as covertly as possible with this tech and announcing Starlink for Ukraine like it’s some PR exercise starts the Russians hacking your system immediately. Edited to be less of an ahole while still making the same point.
- nickysielicki 5y agoWhat do you mean, “we”? He founded and owns the company. He also single-handedly prioritized sending them units for free. There is no we. There’s him. He calls the shots. He tweets what he wants. He deals with the hacking.
- iam-TJ 5y agoYou're projecting a problem that doesn't have the implications you imagine. As others have said, originally Fedorov Mykhailo, a Ukraine vice prime minister, publicly tweeted a request for Starlink service and terminals [0] and later thanked SpaceX after they arrived in-country [1] and today, in Ukraine media, the mayor of Kyiv is pictured with terminals about to be deployed [2]: "“Friends! StarLink global satellite Internet stations are already in Kyiv. Two stations were provided by the Ministry of Digital Transformation. I and Volodymyr [Klitschko] agreed on provision of ten stations with international partners and friends," Kyiv Mayor Vitaliy Klitschko posted on Telegram. According to him, StarLink will help ensure the critical infrastructure of the city and the defense of the capital." [0] https://twitter.com/FedorovMykhailo/status/1497543633293266944 https://twitter.com/FedorovMykhailo/status/14975436332932669... [1] https://twitter.com/fedorovmykhailo/status/1498392515262746630 https://twitter.com/fedorovmykhailo/status/14983925152627466... [2] https://www.ukrinform.net/rubric-ato/3421352-starlink-stations-arrive-in-kyiv.html https://www.ukrinform.net/rubric-ato/3421352-starlink-statio...
- calin2k 5y agoI am surprised by the number o creative pro russian comments in this article, and the apparent lack of empathy towards Ukraine!
- gameswithgo 5y agothere is no article
- sschueller 5y agoStupid question but could starlink be used as a weapon? Like a global signal jammer? This would be a huge problem.
- ChuckNorris89 5y agoIn theory, every modern programable radio transmitting device could become a jammer in their operational frequency band with the appropriate firmware (like SDR dongles or even some WiFi routers and Bluetooth dongles, for example). That's why we require FCC certifications, to make sure that these kinds of devices cannot act like jammers out of the box. However, like I said, with the right custom FW, they could be turned into jammers illegally by bad actors. A common easy trick used in some home WiFI routers to boost the range for free, was to select a specific country from the device configuration menu, outside of Europe/North America, which had lower restrictions on TX signal strength than what the FCC/EU allowed, and presto, extra (illegal) WiFi range for free.
- rainworld 5y agoIt is a weapon. Tor doesn’t exist because the DoD loves anonymity and freedom of speech so much.
- pmayrgundter 5y agoLooking ahead, might be nice to have an open-source ground station that could be made from available circuitry, a downloadable instructable (think pdf) and hobbyist level electric skills. This experience might encourage Starlink engineers to build in some public-safety/emergency service protocols. Some folks are looking at the receiving end with software radio: https://hackaday.com/2021/11/26/analyzing-starlink-satellite-downlink-communications-with-software-defined-radio/ https://hackaday.com/2021/11/26/analyzing-starlink-satellite... Could help in lots of places!
- BenjiWiebe 5y agoThat's going to be pretty complex, and either it'll need to be a very very advanced hobbyist, or else it will have to feature prebuilt stuff that you just plug together. A high-bandwidth low-latency ground station that can talk to multiple satellites at once is not going to be easy.
- pmayrgundter 5y agoCame across this reading back comments: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30515418 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30515418
- wedn3sday 5y agoPlease tell me we're not at the point where Elon tweets make it to the front page of HN.
- throwaway5486nv 5y agoDude. His product single handedly helping a *country* in the time of war. How is this not HN worthy.
- consumer451 5y agoAgreed. I am highly critical of how he chooses to conduct himself publicly, aka Elon can be a donkey hat but his product history is nuts! Has any other human successfully revolutionized automotive, orbital, and telecom products as CEO? I realize he builds amazing teams, and they do the work as well, but lighting striking three times in the same spot? Truly awesome. It’s easy to forget this stuff if you read his twitter, but it’s true.
- uf00lme 5y agoI wonder how hard it would be for starlink system to run an alternative internet on earth aka starlink bbs. As great as the internet currently is, as a long time user it has been rather disappointing to see what it has become. I get the feeling it could have been so much more if it was so heavily funded by ad technologies.