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Tesla’s software is dangerous. I own one and I have to be a lot more alert than when I am actually driving. Just yesterday when I was driving rural town, it was

Tesla’s software is dangerous. I own one and I have to be a lot more alert than when I am actually driving. Just yesterday when I was driving rural town, it was stopping every time it sees a truck in the incoming lane. I suspect if something like that happened in this case as well.

rr808 5y ago
As a non-owner it seems kinda scary with the regular updates that the behavior would change. One day it stops for trucks in small towns, the next day it doesnt.
- alistairSH 5y ago
  Does Tesla force OTA updates, or can the owner turn they off and accept them manually?
  - rootusrootus 5y ago
    There are a couple controls. You can opt-in to get releases earlier, or wait until they're a bit more fully baked. And you can refuse the update when it pops up. I don't recall it ever being forced, but I could be mistaken.
HarryHirsch 5y ago
I can't imagine having a Tesla with the drive-assist software in its current state. It's like having a mentally ill spouse at home, you always wonder what irrational thing is going to come next, you have no peace any second of the day. Now try that during something safety-critical, like driving. The constant hypervigilance is exhausting, and when you aren't looking, the Tesla drives itself into a traffic bollard. Why is such crap road-legal?
- heliodor 5y ago
  Because our current form of government can't keep pace with the rate of new things.
  - HarryHirsch 5y ago
- Ygg2 5y ago
  Maybe the lawmakers, are asleep at the wheel?
- FinalBriefing 5y ago
  and paying $10k for it, too. I imagine a number of customers paid for it, so they want to use it, no matter the state it is in.
  - misiti3780 5y ago
    that is the only way it will ever get better.
- tmountain 5y ago
  I have a Model Y, and I don't feel comfortable with autopilot or lane assist. Both of them do "dumb stuff" regularly. The day I got the car, lane assist attempted to steer me into the center median of a highway when the car was going around 50 miles per hour. After that, I realized I'm not interested in "beta" features that put my life in danger. Autopilot drives like a paranoid grandma. It brakes constantly when it shouldn't. All that said, the car is a lot of fun, and I really enjoy it, but I choose to maintain full control at all times.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- rootusrootus 5y ago
  > The constant hypervigilance is exhausting This is exactly it, IMO. Whether you like AP or not largely comes down to how your driving style compares to the computer's. If you are a defensive driver, you won't really care for the kinds of obviously dumb situations AP will happily drive you into. Eventually it reacts, but it takes a lot longer for the sensors to notice what a human brain can easily predict is about to occur. I found AP to be an interesting toy, but it never made driving more relaxing for me, because I had to be more aware, not less, of everything around me.
- whiplash451 5y ago
  I agree. Plus it is a lot more stressful to imagine that the car could stop randomly rather that hitting an object in front of you (which is already quite bad). The former is literally mentally exhausting.
- antattack 5y ago
  Autopilot is not as bad as you think it is, for one it does not stop abruptly. Thousands of drivers are using it regularly. Drivers report less fatigue and paying better attention to things that matter rather than keeping the car in line. Of course, there are some drivers that are not comfortable with it yet. EU seem to have more stringent regulations - for example, to ensure that AI maneuvers will be less unexpected EU regulations put a hard rate limit on steering angle. Trouble with regulating at such level is that in some cases (curved roads, hazard avoidance) it makes the car less safe. Overall, Level 2 systems, like Autopilot, are not autonomous and their performance depends in large part on drivers judgement. I think regulations need to focus on human - AI interface requirements a bit more.
staktrace 5y ago
Your experience is not universal. In my case the combination of me+software is certainly safer than me alone, and also less taxing for me.
- mathieubordere 5y ago
  Can you explain how you come to the conclusion that it is safer?
  - staktrace 5y ago
    There's been a number of occasions where I would have been in an accident had it not been for the software saving me. Obviously it is possible that one day the software will result in an accident that would not have happened had I been driving alone, but thus far that has not happened, and so, thus far, I can conclude that the combination is better than me alone.
    - sokoloff 5y ago
      It’s fairly rare for a driver to be involved in “a number of accidents” in just a few years. Most drivers go decades with zero collisions, so if you’re experiencing multiple per year, saved only by Tesla software, you might try to see if there are other avenues that you could explore to reduce your risk to be more like the population average.
      - halfmatthalfcat 5y ago
        I would say close calls are fairly common, especially in urban areas with lots of traffic. It’s not just your driving but the people around you. It takes two to get into an accident.
        deleted 5y ago
        [deleted]
        sokoloff 5y ago
ajnin 5y ago
Tesla/Elon Musk have this weird irrational obsession with using only cameras for their autopilot. Yes, humans can drive using only two eyes (and also actually ears, touch feedback and acceleration sensors), but they also have a lot of accidents. It's not obvious that you can do better with software only, and in any case you're crippling yourself by not using additional inputs for no good reason.
- jazzyjackson 5y ago
  > irrational obsession with using only cameras for their autopilot it's so they can upsell FSD with the highest margin using the cheapest hardware (they're not even good cameras, 1280×960 resolution because they want to push pixels directly into their neural net, and dynamic range is poor, I will never understand how they didn't spring for infrared night vision, cadillacs had it 20 years ago)
- kbos87 5y ago
  I think you could also say that people seem to have an irrational obsession with Tesla’s decision to only use cameras. Camera only systems aren’t uncommon among other automakers (Subaru Eyesight, for example.)
  - infecto 5y ago
    Your comparison does not apply. I do not believe Subaru is selling Eyesight as a hands-off driving system. AFAIK its purely marketed as a safety system for emergency braking, lane keep assist and the like. On Tesla's side they market it as a the holy grail "autopilot".
    - falcolas 5y ago
      And it’s lane assist isn’t “keep the car centered”… it’s the steering equivalent to emergency braking, a sudden jerk away from the line it thinks you’re about to cross.
      - kbos87 5y ago
rootusrootus 5y ago
My wife forbade me from using AP [with her in the car] after a few phantom braking occurrences. I got sorta used to it and could jab the go pedal pretty fast, but it scared the daylights out of her. Can't really blame her. I get nervous enough as a passenger when there's a human driving, much less when a computer is driving that mistakes shadows for obstacles.
thecleaner 5y ago
Exactly correcting software errors is a whole lot more effort than just sticking to your own way of driving.

rr808 5y ago

As a non-owner it seems kinda scary with the regular updates that the behavior would change. One day it stops for trucks in small towns, the next day it doesnt.

alistairSH 5y ago
Does Tesla force OTA updates, or can the owner turn they off and accept them manually?
- rootusrootus 5y ago
  There are a couple controls. You can opt-in to get releases earlier, or wait until they're a bit more fully baked. And you can refuse the update when it pops up. I don't recall it ever being forced, but I could be mistaken.

HarryHirsch 5y ago

I can't imagine having a Tesla with the drive-assist software in its current state. It's like having a mentally ill spouse at home, you always wonder what irrational thing is going to come next, you have no peace any second of the day. Now try that during something safety-critical, like driving. The constant hypervigilance is exhausting, and when you aren't looking, the Tesla drives itself into a traffic bollard. Why is such crap road-legal?

heliodor 5y ago
Because our current form of government can't keep pace with the rate of new things.
- HarryHirsch 5y ago
Ygg2 5y ago
Maybe the lawmakers, are asleep at the wheel?
FinalBriefing 5y ago
and paying $10k for it, too. I imagine a number of customers paid for it, so they want to use it, no matter the state it is in.
- misiti3780 5y ago
  that is the only way it will ever get better.
tmountain 5y ago
I have a Model Y, and I don't feel comfortable with autopilot or lane assist. Both of them do "dumb stuff" regularly. The day I got the car, lane assist attempted to steer me into the center median of a highway when the car was going around 50 miles per hour. After that, I realized I'm not interested in "beta" features that put my life in danger. Autopilot drives like a paranoid grandma. It brakes constantly when it shouldn't. All that said, the car is a lot of fun, and I really enjoy it, but I choose to maintain full control at all times.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
rootusrootus 5y ago
> The constant hypervigilance is exhausting This is exactly it, IMO. Whether you like AP or not largely comes down to how your driving style compares to the computer's. If you are a defensive driver, you won't really care for the kinds of obviously dumb situations AP will happily drive you into. Eventually it reacts, but it takes a lot longer for the sensors to notice what a human brain can easily predict is about to occur. I found AP to be an interesting toy, but it never made driving more relaxing for me, because I had to be more aware, not less, of everything around me.
whiplash451 5y ago
I agree. Plus it is a lot more stressful to imagine that the car could stop randomly rather that hitting an object in front of you (which is already quite bad). The former is literally mentally exhausting.
antattack 5y ago
Autopilot is not as bad as you think it is, for one it does not stop abruptly. Thousands of drivers are using it regularly. Drivers report less fatigue and paying better attention to things that matter rather than keeping the car in line. Of course, there are some drivers that are not comfortable with it yet. EU seem to have more stringent regulations - for example, to ensure that AI maneuvers will be less unexpected EU regulations put a hard rate limit on steering angle. Trouble with regulating at such level is that in some cases (curved roads, hazard avoidance) it makes the car less safe. Overall, Level 2 systems, like Autopilot, are not autonomous and their performance depends in large part on drivers judgement. I think regulations need to focus on human - AI interface requirements a bit more.

staktrace 5y ago

Your experience is not universal. In my case the combination of me+software is certainly safer than me alone, and also less taxing for me.

mathieubordere 5y ago
Can you explain how you come to the conclusion that it is safer?
- staktrace 5y ago
  There's been a number of occasions where I would have been in an accident had it not been for the software saving me. Obviously it is possible that one day the software will result in an accident that would not have happened had I been driving alone, but thus far that has not happened, and so, thus far, I can conclude that the combination is better than me alone.
  - sokoloff 5y ago
    It’s fairly rare for a driver to be involved in “a number of accidents” in just a few years. Most drivers go decades with zero collisions, so if you’re experiencing multiple per year, saved only by Tesla software, you might try to see if there are other avenues that you could explore to reduce your risk to be more like the population average.
    - halfmatthalfcat 5y ago
      I would say close calls are fairly common, especially in urban areas with lots of traffic. It’s not just your driving but the people around you. It takes two to get into an accident.
      - deleted 5y ago
        [deleted]
      - sokoloff 5y ago

ajnin 5y ago

Tesla/Elon Musk have this weird irrational obsession with using only cameras for their autopilot. Yes, humans can drive using only two eyes (and also actually ears, touch feedback and acceleration sensors), but they also have a lot of accidents. It's not obvious that you can do better with software only, and in any case you're crippling yourself by not using additional inputs for no good reason.

jazzyjackson 5y ago
> irrational obsession with using only cameras for their autopilot it's so they can upsell FSD with the highest margin using the cheapest hardware (they're not even good cameras, 1280×960 resolution because they want to push pixels directly into their neural net, and dynamic range is poor, I will never understand how they didn't spring for infrared night vision, cadillacs had it 20 years ago)
kbos87 5y ago
I think you could also say that people seem to have an irrational obsession with Tesla’s decision to only use cameras. Camera only systems aren’t uncommon among other automakers (Subaru Eyesight, for example.)
- infecto 5y ago
  Your comparison does not apply. I do not believe Subaru is selling Eyesight as a hands-off driving system. AFAIK its purely marketed as a safety system for emergency braking, lane keep assist and the like. On Tesla's side they market it as a the holy grail "autopilot".
  - falcolas 5y ago
    And it’s lane assist isn’t “keep the car centered”… it’s the steering equivalent to emergency braking, a sudden jerk away from the line it thinks you’re about to cross.
    - kbos87 5y ago

rootusrootus 5y ago

My wife forbade me from using AP [with her in the car] after a few phantom braking occurrences. I got sorta used to it and could jab the go pedal pretty fast, but it scared the daylights out of her. Can't really blame her. I get nervous enough as a passenger when there's a human driving, much less when a computer is driving that mistakes shadows for obstacles.

thecleaner 5y ago

Exactly correcting software errors is a whole lot more effort than just sticking to your own way of driving.