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Purposely causing nuclear disasters is one way to ensure a country can never join NATO or the EU Putin doesn't have to occupy the country to "win", all he has
by ck2 5y ago
Purposely causing nuclear disasters is one way to ensure a country can never join NATO or the EU
Putin doesn't have to occupy the country to "win", all he has to do is set them back to the dark ages and make everyone (who can) flee.
He can't be allowed to get away with this. Ukraine needs a "no fly zone" ASAP
- eru 5y ago> Purposely causing nuclear disasters is one way to ensure a country can never join NATO or the EU Why? Nuclear disaster is bad, but how would it ensure that a country can _never_ join NATO or the EU? Ukraine already had the Chernobyl disaster on their soil, and I don't see that one as keeping them out of either organisation _forever_.
- adgjlsfhk1 5y agogp was saying that if you blow up the country enough, there's no country left to join NATO.
- eru 5y agoThat's a fair point in general. Exploding all nuclear reactors in Ukraine isn't going to do that though. And, of course, Russia could do much blowing up with conventional weapons, too.
- oddmiral 5y agoJust one nuclear reactor can be used to create continent wide Red forest. Chornobyl disaster was just an incident without evil intent. Small fraction of nuclear fuel was released into atmosphere. With evil intent, much larger percent of nuclear fuel can be turned into thin dust and released into atmosphere. Larger reactors contain much more nuclear fuel. With evil intent, much more radioactive elements, such as radioactive iodine or radioactive noble gases, can be breed in reactor before blow up. With evil intent, safety systems can be disabled to produce maximal amount of dangerous elements. Depending on time given for preparation and technique used, it can be from 1 Fukushima to 10k Chornobyls. If NATO will give initiative to Russians, they can blow up reactor in good weather, so RF will not be affected, but EU will gone.
- eru 5y agoMaybe. I am sure you can do more damage, if you optimize for that, than an accident would do. However: for a nuclear power like Russia, blowing up nuclear reactors only makes sense if they can make it look like an accident. Otherwise: just use your nukes.
- VyperCard 5y agoIf they ride up to aspirant stairs with the EU, soon there would be a country again rising of the ashes.
- ignoramous 5y agoEU is no elixir, though.
- tablespoon 5y ago>> Purposely causing nuclear disasters is one way to ensure a country can never join NATO or the EU > Why? Nuclear disaster is bad, but how would it ensure that a country can _never_ join NATO or the EU? > Ukraine already had the Chernobyl disaster on their soil, and I don't see that one as keeping them out of either organisation _forever_. And didn't the EU pay a lot of money to help them build a new containment building for it? It's a bizarre leap to say a nuclear disaster would disqualify a country from joining NATO or the EU.
- kulikalov 5y agoEven though it was on Ukrainian soil, still: USSR had Chernobyl disaster, not Ukraine. It’s one of the reasons Ukraine separated from USSR.
- oddmiral 5y agoSo, USA used nukes 2 times, while USSR blow up 1 nuclear reactor. 2:1
- eru 5y agoIf you want to count it like that: Both USA and USSR nuked themselves a whole lot more when testing nuclear weapons. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_nuclear_weapons_tests https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_nuclear_weapons_tests
- eru 5y agoI suspect that legally speaking Ukraine is one of the successor states of the USSR? Doesn't matter too much for the point I made in any case: If a nuclear disaster were to happen in Ukraine now, NATO and EU would also not blame it on Ukraine.
- fabrika 5y agoPutin might nuke Warsaw an hour after the no-fly zone is imposed. He's that crazy.
- labster 5y agoThe only rational response to that would be a nuclear attack on Moscow. Likely, though, he just wants to make you think he’s that crazy. Madness is a major component of MAD.
- ethbr0 5y agoIndeed. A responsive deterrent is only a deterrent if you believe the other person will absolutely, 100%-of-the-time, without-blinking-an-eye execute the strike. If you think they might not, because ethics and morals, then the deterrent's value is discounted by your percentage of doubt.
- waffleiron 5y agoNo he isn’t, then he’d be at war with at least 3 other nuclear powers. You know Poland is both EU and NATO right? He has a difficult time winning the war already, he’d never be able to win if he pulls in more countries.
- hans_castorp 5y agoIn the meantime I fear he is indeed that crazy. He repeatedly stated that his goal is to wipe out Ukraine at any costs. He is a like a little child that doesn't get his way and then blindly hits at everything in his reach.
- ericd 5y agoYou realize that instituting a no fly zone means the US shooting down Russian aircraft, right? Which means a hot war between US/NATO and Russia. That is something that the US should absolutely not engage in, because the stakes at that point are the survival of the species, rather than just Ukraine. We need to not normalize the idea of a no fly zone, no matter how gut wrenching watching this war gets.
- oddmiral 5y agoIf RF will blow up nuclear reactor, Ukraine and EU will be uninhabitable, but USA will be safe.
- bluecalm 5y agoYou're operating under an assumption that Putin will only use nuclear power if we cross some imaginary line. We analyze agreements, fine print, war conventions. Those things don't matter to him. If he feels he is losing this war he will threaten nuclear weapons anyway. He may threaten it if he doesn't get exactly what he wants. We need to stop normalizing the idea that there is some holy line which is we just stay away from bad things won't happen. Putin just moves the line wherever he wants and you will keep dancing around it. This naive thinking really needs to die already.
- ignoramous 5y agoAs abhorrent as it sounds, if the Russian government authorizes use of nuclear weapons, it might only be exclusively to get Ukraine to surrender and end the war on Russian terms. I don't think their designs will be to go nuclear on rest of Europe.
- lordnacho 5y agoThat's just the nuclear salami method. Declare you're only using nukes locally and everyone else better not piss you off. Take that slice. Repeat.
- 5y ago