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But it does not - or, to the extent that it does, it only does as a yet-unclosed loophole. If crypto is not currency, it needs to be converted to currency befo

But it does not - or, to the extent that it does, it only does as a yet-unclosed loophole. If crypto is not currency, it needs to be converted to currency before use and as such can trivially be blocked with KYC rules at conversion. If crypto desires to be a serious currency, it needs to greatly improve efficiency and stop being deflationary. (Funnily enough, Tesla accepts dogecoin but not USDT, so maybe I am wrong with the second requirement; but maybe not - it's likely just a gimmick in this case)

anovikov 5y ago
Thing is, there are, and will probably always be, enough purely criminal uses for money, where KYC is not a thing, that use of crypto for non-criminal purposes will be able to work too: criminals will function as "entry and exit nodes" between cash and fiat, and between them, legit users will just operate with crypto. Fiat is based on people's trust with governments. Crypto is based on people's distrust with governments...
- virgilp 5y ago
  If you're relying on criminals you already have excluded widespread/mainstream use. The question is not if "crypto is a novelty that enables some people to go around some laws" - everybody can readily agree to that. The question is whether it is a systemic force/ agent of change, that can e.g. prevent enforcement of some kind of laws forever and thus have long-lasting societal impact. I think the jury is very much out on that. (and no, you can't rely on criminals as exit nodes if you claim to be an unstoppable agent of change)
CyanBird 5y ago
Crypto is infinitely divisible, and because of lack of physicality it does not really suffer from lack of liquidity on the same sense that you can't cut a 20usd bill in half to pay a 10usd item, you just swipe with your phone or wherever e-wallet you use The deflationary bit, is sort of a problem on the centralization of wealth yeah, but that's a macro problem, not a barrier of entry to individuals I think that your comment tries to take digs at Crypto in an overly contrarian way, Crypto is digital gold which can be easily hidden, I guess that you could buy a bunch of paper Swiss bonds hide them on a bag or whatever and take a flight with these, but that already has a higher barrier of entry than buying wherever amount you want on ether and put it on a thumb drive, I guess both methods could work, certainly both are easier and sneakier than carrying a brick of gold around on your flight luggage
- imtringued 5y ago
  I don't get divisibility argumebt. Why woukd anyonce care if their Bitcoin can be divided if they owe 0.0001 Bitcoin and Bitcoin suddenly doubled in value which doubled the amount of money they owe without giving consent to owe more money. It is kinda like someone used a technological defect to justify a non negotiated contract change. The person who promised a certain amount of debt obviously promised the earnings of a fragment of their talents. The volatility of the currency does not affect their talents.
  - rswail 5y ago
    How does 0.0001 BTC "suddenly double in value" to be 0.0002 BTC? What you're actually saying it suddenly doubles in value when converted to another currency. Just the same as if I owe someone $10, in the same currency, then it doesn't matter if the ratio of the dollar to the ruble doubles or triples at the same time. It's still $10 to both of the parties.
- lottin 5y ago
  Liquidity has nothing to do with divisibility. Liquidity is the ease with which an asset can be turned into money. By definition, money is the most liquid asset. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Market_liquidity https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Market_liquidity
netheril96 5y ago
> If crypto desires to be a serious currency, it needs to greatly improve efficiency and stop being deflationary. Deflation is not an inherent attribute of crypto currency. Only some of them are deflationary, most notably Bitcoin. Dogecoin for example is inflationary. Exactly five billion new Dogecoin will be created and enter circulation every year.

anovikov 5y ago

Thing is, there are, and will probably always be, enough purely criminal uses for money, where KYC is not a thing, that use of crypto for non-criminal purposes will be able to work too: criminals will function as "entry and exit nodes" between cash and fiat, and between them, legit users will just operate with crypto. Fiat is based on people's trust with governments. Crypto is based on people's distrust with governments...

virgilp 5y ago
If you're relying on criminals you already have excluded widespread/mainstream use. The question is not if "crypto is a novelty that enables some people to go around some laws" - everybody can readily agree to that. The question is whether it is a systemic force/ agent of change, that can e.g. prevent enforcement of some kind of laws forever and thus have long-lasting societal impact. I think the jury is very much out on that. (and no, you can't rely on criminals as exit nodes if you claim to be an unstoppable agent of change)

CyanBird 5y ago

Crypto is infinitely divisible, and because of lack of physicality it does not really suffer from lack of liquidity on the same sense that you can't cut a 20usd bill in half to pay a 10usd item, you just swipe with your phone or wherever e-wallet you use The deflationary bit, is sort of a problem on the centralization of wealth yeah, but that's a macro problem, not a barrier of entry to individuals I think that your comment tries to take digs at Crypto in an overly contrarian way, Crypto is digital gold which can be easily hidden, I guess that you could buy a bunch of paper Swiss bonds hide them on a bag or whatever and take a flight with these, but that already has a higher barrier of entry than buying wherever amount you want on ether and put it on a thumb drive, I guess both methods could work, certainly both are easier and sneakier than carrying a brick of gold around on your flight luggage

imtringued 5y ago
I don't get divisibility argumebt. Why woukd anyonce care if their Bitcoin can be divided if they owe 0.0001 Bitcoin and Bitcoin suddenly doubled in value which doubled the amount of money they owe without giving consent to owe more money. It is kinda like someone used a technological defect to justify a non negotiated contract change. The person who promised a certain amount of debt obviously promised the earnings of a fragment of their talents. The volatility of the currency does not affect their talents.
- rswail 5y ago
  How does 0.0001 BTC "suddenly double in value" to be 0.0002 BTC? What you're actually saying it suddenly doubles in value when converted to another currency. Just the same as if I owe someone $10, in the same currency, then it doesn't matter if the ratio of the dollar to the ruble doubles or triples at the same time. It's still $10 to both of the parties.
lottin 5y ago
Liquidity has nothing to do with divisibility. Liquidity is the ease with which an asset can be turned into money. By definition, money is the most liquid asset. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Market_liquidity https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Market_liquidity

netheril96 5y ago

> If crypto desires to be a serious currency, it needs to greatly improve efficiency and stop being deflationary. Deflation is not an inherent attribute of crypto currency. Only some of them are deflationary, most notably Bitcoin. Dogecoin for example is inflationary. Exactly five billion new Dogecoin will be created and enter circulation every year.