9 ms·

this is only for those who have opted to not be fully remote. those folks have a reserved physical desk / office space at which they will be required to go 3 d

this is only for those who have opted to not be fully remote. those folks have a reserved physical desk / office space at which they will be required to go 3 days per week starting apr 4th. They may switch to fully remote but cannot keep a dedicated physical spot if they do so. source: googler

bpodgursky 5y ago
Honestly that seems like a totally reasonable ask, assuming there are a reasonable number of flex desks for people who are nominally remote.
itsangaris 5y ago
does going remote impact one's salary?
- ASinclair 5y ago
  Yes, it's based on where you work. Though you can work remote from the same city as your current office and have no pay difference.
  - Johnny555 5y ago
    Can you go remote within commute distance of the office and keep your salary? What's the limit? Living in Pleasanton is cheaper than living in Mountain View, but still commutable. Living in Tracy is cheaper still and people still commute to the Bay Area from there. Living in Fresno or Sacramento is even cheaper and farther but still some people will do that commute daily.
    - brandonhorst 5y ago
      It's all based off the CoL in county of your primary residence. Has nothing to do with the proximity to an office.
      - jaredsohn 5y ago
        Curious if companies pay differently based on county of primary residence if you commute to the office.
        iancmceachern 5y ago
        Exactly. If someone who lives in say, Tracy, who has always commuted into the office, and continues to do so. Would they get their pay cut?
      - cgdub 5y ago
        Does that mean you would get paid less for living in Queens County instead of New York County?
      - hinkley 5y ago
        But if there is anywhere in the county that has escaped full IT gentrification because of poor commuter access, those prices are going to explode if they haven't already. Since median house price is a huge fraction of CoL calculations (and a frequent complaint among some economists), staying in county gets you a raise, if your friends do it too.
        csa 5y ago
        > those prices are going to explode if they haven't already That ship has sailed, and it’s got a nice tail wind as well.
        Talanes 5y ago
        Yeah, last time I looked at rents in my hometown, the cheapest options there were comparable to the cheapest options in San Francisco. They're probably a bit ahead of the curve; most the empty land around is either federal or LADWP, so there's limited room for new development, but it's a major shot up from pre-pandemic prices where renting a full house was cheaper than an SF bedroom.
      - hhmc 5y ago
    - deleted 5y ago
      [deleted]
    - kccqzy 5y ago
      There was an internal tool that simulated your pay change when you move. For example, if your office is in Santa Clara county but you move to Santa Cruz county the pay will drop by a lot. But if you move from Santa Clara county to San Mateo county there's no change at all.
      - dekhn 5y ago
        That's terrible (specifically, for the people driving to the office over 17 with their reduced paychecks). What a slap in the face.
        iancmceachern 5y ago
        Yeah. Someone could have lived there long term, had a Job, and now are suddenly getting a pay cut?
        shagie 5y ago
        ... if they are charging from being in the office from 5 days a week (before times) to 0 days a week (now) rather than 3 days a week in office and 2 from home. 5 -> 0 is a pay cut based on where you live. 5 -> 3 is not a pay cut as you're still working out of the same office.
        dekhn 5y ago
        Ah, OK I thought anybody who lived in Santa Cruz and reported to the office 5 days a week would take a pay cut. This is just if you're fully remote, I guess. Still seems like a slap, Santa Cruz ain't cheap even if it's slightly better than San Mateo or Mountain View.
        saalweachter 5y ago
        So I'm a "super commuter"; I can take the Metro North from the end of the line to NYC, although I usually go for Amtrak for several reasons. If I were to go fully remote, I would take a pay cut ... but it would be almost identical to my commuting costs, once you account for rail fair, parking, vehicle mileage, taxes, snacks, etc. I don't know how representative my case is, but the pay cut ends up being a non-factor in my decision whether or not to apply for full remote.
    - vitus 5y ago
      The limit is based on what the Census bureau dictates the metropolitan statistical area to be. Certain MSAs with Google offices correspond to a special rate; otherwise it's based on the state you're in. If you're in Sacramento, you're definitely not in the same MSA as either San Jose or SF. Pleasanton on the other hand is part of Alameda County, which is part of SF's MSA. Meanwhile, if you opted to be in Santa Cruz, "just" 32 miles south of San Jose, you'd be SOL.
      - gtk40 5y ago
        Interesting. I live in a big MSA (Atlanta, which includes a lot of mostly rural counties). I've considered a role at Google, but currently work in a suburb and live further out from there. 1 hour to Atlanta proper without traffic, but still in the MSA according to the census. And I could move further out and still be in the MSA (like Heard County or Jasper County if you want to look at some examples).
        CydeWeys 5y ago
        Atlanta is still going to be a significantly lower pay band than premium plus (Bay Area/NYC), though. Tech salaries there aren't as high. The ideal play is to be far out in the boonies of a premium plus MSA, e.g. something like Dutchess County in upstate New York. The cost of living there is quite low but you'll still make the highest salary possible. Interestingly, Seattle is only in the premium price tier, not the premium price tier. This is because there's no state income tax in Washington, so a lower salary goes a longer way. So it ends up being a wash even factoring in NY/CA state taxes. Because CA taxes are higher than NY (but not NYC taxes), your best bet is living in upstate NY (Long Island is outside of NYC too but it's eliminated because CoL is higher there).
    - UncleMeat 5y ago
      > Can you go remote within commute distance of the office and keep your salary? Yes. I know somebody working remotely about 10m driving from the office. To keep your salary you'd need to stay in the SF bay area, which is defined according to country lines.
      - the_svd_doctor 5y ago
        _county_ lines? How far does it go?
        UncleMeat 5y ago
        I don't know the boundary of the SF Bay Area region. It is based on some US designation. Once you leave the region around an office you become a part of some general state-wide designation. This has some failure cases, with some weird places being included in regions like NYC while some other places where people really do commute to NYC (though it is extremely far) are excluded. I don't actually know anybody who has been impacted by this, but clever Googlers made a pretty compete map of all of counties in the US and their pay region once the tool for getting salary information for proposed moves was available.
  - electriclizard 5y ago
    It is a bit ridiculous to base these things off location when the location would reduce the taxes the company pays for you. I'd like to understand how these market values are calculated. It can't be supply and demand, because if you move to a place with 0 supply you do not maximize your value. I should be able to say to them "hey, I create $x for you now and I cost $y, but if I move I will make the same $x for you for $(y-z), and it will make no impact on means or ends since I'm entirely remote."
    - colinmhayes 5y ago
      You are not paid the value you create. The value you create has nothing to do with your salary(other than whether you get fired if value < salary). Your salary is the least your employer thinks they can pay to get an acceptable candidate. As they expand the pool of applicants they figure they can find people willing to work for less.
- googlerx 5y ago
  Depends. Pay is based on location and is the same for in-office at location X or fully remote at location X. Relocating could impact pay up or down. https://www.vox.com/recode/22691275/googles-remote-work-home-pay-cut-location-real-estate https://www.vox.com/recode/22691275/googles-remote-work-home...
  - WheatM 5y ago
- 908B64B197 5y ago
  From what I’ve been told it’s been pretty easy for some to negotiate no salary adjustment when going remote. It’s against HR “policy” but I know deals happened when someone was deemed a crucial contributor.
  - mzvkxlcvd 5y ago
    im planning on moving out of state in a few months from high cost area. what i've been told is that my salary wont change but I will be at "top of band" in the new area.
    - electriclizard 5y ago
      Complete manipulative nonsense if they ever use "top of the band" as reason to change their relationship with you imo. A Ferrari doesn't stop being Ferrari just because it's parked amongst Priuses. If you're worth paying $x for $y, you're worth paying $x for $y minus the reduction in taxes they'll pay; your moving to an area with less taxes is them getting you on sale.
- Rebelgecko 5y ago
  Depends. If you live near the office and still live near the office, no. If you've moved to a different area, potentially.
asd88 5y ago
Microsoft is doing something similar where you can choose hybrid work or fully remote. Personally, I think, with hybrid work, fully remote workers will go back to being second class citizens at those companies if most people choose to go back to the office (even part time).
- randomsilence 5y ago
  Which will lead to the remote workers changing companies. If there is no substantial advantage, those companies will become second class companies.
  - paulryanrogers 5y ago
    That's one way to evaluate things. Another way is to consider diversity in working methods a goal in and of itself, even if it doesn't further capitalist positive outcomes.
    - deleted 5y ago
      [deleted]
    - jmeister 5y ago
      Capitalism is ok with diversity in working methods as long as the pay is diverse too.
  - julienb_sea 5y ago
    This is totally unproven. We have no idea how the market as a whole is going to react. Most companies are going to follow the leaders on this one, and Microsoft and Google taking a clear stance will heavily influence the rest of the market.
  - amusedcyclist 5y ago
    Highly unlikely, the best and most ambitious will move to get better jobs, as they always have
  - oblio 5y ago
Cd00d 5y ago
That's interesting because an outsourced recruiter contacted me recently about a Google role and very clearly needed to confirm that I would be able to return to an office one day a week. I was confused why 1/5 was so much more powerful than 0/5. I sorta get 3/5 if you have a commitment to in-person culture. Anyway, the 1 per week doesn't at all line up with your more credible 3 per week.

bpodgursky 5y ago

Honestly that seems like a totally reasonable ask, assuming there are a reasonable number of flex desks for people who are nominally remote.

itsangaris 5y ago

does going remote impact one's salary?

ASinclair 5y ago
Yes, it's based on where you work. Though you can work remote from the same city as your current office and have no pay difference.
- Johnny555 5y ago
  Can you go remote within commute distance of the office and keep your salary? What's the limit? Living in Pleasanton is cheaper than living in Mountain View, but still commutable. Living in Tracy is cheaper still and people still commute to the Bay Area from there. Living in Fresno or Sacramento is even cheaper and farther but still some people will do that commute daily.
  - brandonhorst 5y ago
    It's all based off the CoL in county of your primary residence. Has nothing to do with the proximity to an office.
    - jaredsohn 5y ago
      Curious if companies pay differently based on county of primary residence if you commute to the office.
      - iancmceachern 5y ago
        Exactly. If someone who lives in say, Tracy, who has always commuted into the office, and continues to do so. Would they get their pay cut?
    - cgdub 5y ago
      Does that mean you would get paid less for living in Queens County instead of New York County?
    - hinkley 5y ago
      But if there is anywhere in the county that has escaped full IT gentrification because of poor commuter access, those prices are going to explode if they haven't already. Since median house price is a huge fraction of CoL calculations (and a frequent complaint among some economists), staying in county gets you a raise, if your friends do it too.
      - csa 5y ago
        > those prices are going to explode if they haven't already That ship has sailed, and it’s got a nice tail wind as well.
        Talanes 5y ago
        Yeah, last time I looked at rents in my hometown, the cheapest options there were comparable to the cheapest options in San Francisco. They're probably a bit ahead of the curve; most the empty land around is either federal or LADWP, so there's limited room for new development, but it's a major shot up from pre-pandemic prices where renting a full house was cheaper than an SF bedroom.
    - hhmc 5y ago
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  - kccqzy 5y ago
    There was an internal tool that simulated your pay change when you move. For example, if your office is in Santa Clara county but you move to Santa Cruz county the pay will drop by a lot. But if you move from Santa Clara county to San Mateo county there's no change at all.
    - dekhn 5y ago
      That's terrible (specifically, for the people driving to the office over 17 with their reduced paychecks). What a slap in the face.
      - iancmceachern 5y ago
        Yeah. Someone could have lived there long term, had a Job, and now are suddenly getting a pay cut?
        shagie 5y ago
        ... if they are charging from being in the office from 5 days a week (before times) to 0 days a week (now) rather than 3 days a week in office and 2 from home. 5 -> 0 is a pay cut based on where you live. 5 -> 3 is not a pay cut as you're still working out of the same office.
        dekhn 5y ago
        Ah, OK I thought anybody who lived in Santa Cruz and reported to the office 5 days a week would take a pay cut. This is just if you're fully remote, I guess. Still seems like a slap, Santa Cruz ain't cheap even if it's slightly better than San Mateo or Mountain View.
        saalweachter 5y ago
        So I'm a "super commuter"; I can take the Metro North from the end of the line to NYC, although I usually go for Amtrak for several reasons. If I were to go fully remote, I would take a pay cut ... but it would be almost identical to my commuting costs, once you account for rail fair, parking, vehicle mileage, taxes, snacks, etc. I don't know how representative my case is, but the pay cut ends up being a non-factor in my decision whether or not to apply for full remote.
  - vitus 5y ago
    The limit is based on what the Census bureau dictates the metropolitan statistical area to be. Certain MSAs with Google offices correspond to a special rate; otherwise it's based on the state you're in. If you're in Sacramento, you're definitely not in the same MSA as either San Jose or SF. Pleasanton on the other hand is part of Alameda County, which is part of SF's MSA. Meanwhile, if you opted to be in Santa Cruz, "just" 32 miles south of San Jose, you'd be SOL.
    - gtk40 5y ago
      Interesting. I live in a big MSA (Atlanta, which includes a lot of mostly rural counties). I've considered a role at Google, but currently work in a suburb and live further out from there. 1 hour to Atlanta proper without traffic, but still in the MSA according to the census. And I could move further out and still be in the MSA (like Heard County or Jasper County if you want to look at some examples).
      - CydeWeys 5y ago
        Atlanta is still going to be a significantly lower pay band than premium plus (Bay Area/NYC), though. Tech salaries there aren't as high. The ideal play is to be far out in the boonies of a premium plus MSA, e.g. something like Dutchess County in upstate New York. The cost of living there is quite low but you'll still make the highest salary possible. Interestingly, Seattle is only in the premium price tier, not the premium price tier. This is because there's no state income tax in Washington, so a lower salary goes a longer way. So it ends up being a wash even factoring in NY/CA state taxes. Because CA taxes are higher than NY (but not NYC taxes), your best bet is living in upstate NY (Long Island is outside of NYC too but it's eliminated because CoL is higher there).
  - UncleMeat 5y ago
    > Can you go remote within commute distance of the office and keep your salary? Yes. I know somebody working remotely about 10m driving from the office. To keep your salary you'd need to stay in the SF bay area, which is defined according to country lines.
    - the_svd_doctor 5y ago
      _county_ lines? How far does it go?
      - UncleMeat 5y ago
        I don't know the boundary of the SF Bay Area region. It is based on some US designation. Once you leave the region around an office you become a part of some general state-wide designation. This has some failure cases, with some weird places being included in regions like NYC while some other places where people really do commute to NYC (though it is extremely far) are excluded. I don't actually know anybody who has been impacted by this, but clever Googlers made a pretty compete map of all of counties in the US and their pay region once the tool for getting salary information for proposed moves was available.
- electriclizard 5y ago
  It is a bit ridiculous to base these things off location when the location would reduce the taxes the company pays for you. I'd like to understand how these market values are calculated. It can't be supply and demand, because if you move to a place with 0 supply you do not maximize your value. I should be able to say to them "hey, I create $x for you now and I cost $y, but if I move I will make the same $x for you for $(y-z), and it will make no impact on means or ends since I'm entirely remote."
  - colinmhayes 5y ago
    You are not paid the value you create. The value you create has nothing to do with your salary(other than whether you get fired if value < salary). Your salary is the least your employer thinks they can pay to get an acceptable candidate. As they expand the pool of applicants they figure they can find people willing to work for less.
googlerx 5y ago
Depends. Pay is based on location and is the same for in-office at location X or fully remote at location X. Relocating could impact pay up or down. https://www.vox.com/recode/22691275/googles-remote-work-home-pay-cut-location-real-estate https://www.vox.com/recode/22691275/googles-remote-work-home...
- WheatM 5y ago
908B64B197 5y ago
From what I’ve been told it’s been pretty easy for some to negotiate no salary adjustment when going remote. It’s against HR “policy” but I know deals happened when someone was deemed a crucial contributor.
- mzvkxlcvd 5y ago
  im planning on moving out of state in a few months from high cost area. what i've been told is that my salary wont change but I will be at "top of band" in the new area.
  - electriclizard 5y ago
    Complete manipulative nonsense if they ever use "top of the band" as reason to change their relationship with you imo. A Ferrari doesn't stop being Ferrari just because it's parked amongst Priuses. If you're worth paying $x for $y, you're worth paying $x for $y minus the reduction in taxes they'll pay; your moving to an area with less taxes is them getting you on sale.
Rebelgecko 5y ago
Depends. If you live near the office and still live near the office, no. If you've moved to a different area, potentially.

asd88 5y ago

Microsoft is doing something similar where you can choose hybrid work or fully remote. Personally, I think, with hybrid work, fully remote workers will go back to being second class citizens at those companies if most people choose to go back to the office (even part time).

randomsilence 5y ago
Which will lead to the remote workers changing companies. If there is no substantial advantage, those companies will become second class companies.
- paulryanrogers 5y ago
  That's one way to evaluate things. Another way is to consider diversity in working methods a goal in and of itself, even if it doesn't further capitalist positive outcomes.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  - jmeister 5y ago
    Capitalism is ok with diversity in working methods as long as the pay is diverse too.
- julienb_sea 5y ago
  This is totally unproven. We have no idea how the market as a whole is going to react. Most companies are going to follow the leaders on this one, and Microsoft and Google taking a clear stance will heavily influence the rest of the market.
- amusedcyclist 5y ago
  Highly unlikely, the best and most ambitious will move to get better jobs, as they always have
- oblio 5y ago

Cd00d 5y ago

That's interesting because an outsourced recruiter contacted me recently about a Google role and very clearly needed to confirm that I would be able to return to an office one day a week. I was confused why 1/5 was so much more powerful than 0/5. I sorta get 3/5 if you have a commitment to in-person culture. Anyway, the 1 per week doesn't at all line up with your more credible 3 per week.