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It would be more fair to create admission quotas based on family economic status, but I can’t imagine that would ever be put into practice because it would hurt

It would be more fair to create admission quotas based on family economic status, but I can’t imagine that would ever be put into practice because it would hurt the wealthy too much. The universities wouldn’t like the financial impact either. But if true equality of opportunity were the goal, then that’s how you’d need to do it I think.

seanmcdirmid 5y ago
> but I can’t imagine that would ever be put into practice because it would hurt the wealthy too much. It definitely would hurt their bottom lines, since most of the private elites also provide non-loan financial aid out of their endowments to people who can’t otherwise afford to go. That only works if only a few poorer people make it over the bar. Public schools should step up more here, as it is their mission.
- MontyCarloHall 5y ago
  > That only works if only a few poorer people make it over the bar. That is not true. The per-capita endowment of Harvard (and other schools of its caliber) is so large that it could afford to entirely eliminate tuition[0]. Currently, approximately 60% of students receive some sort of financial aid, and 20% pay no tuition at all[1]. These figures are similar at other similar schools. [0] https://www.businessinsider.com/harvard-should-stop-charging-tuition-2014-10 https://www.businessinsider.com/harvard-should-stop-charging... [1] https://college.harvard.edu/guides/financial-aid-fact-sheet https://college.harvard.edu/guides/financial-aid-fact-sheet
giveyouareply 5y ago
It can be gamed. A long while back at University, I noticed very wealthy students on student income schemes that were only meant to be accessed by students whose parents qualified as low income status. The bar to qualify was quite difficult, if you had one parent employed in a job then it was unlikely you would qualify. I asked how they could qualify, while almost everyone had to work part time jobs to cover costs. It turns out their parents paid themselves a very low salary in order to qualify.
- sdoering 5y ago
  I remember nearly the same in Germany. When I was at university governmental student loans were a thing (still are). I didn't qualify, as my single dad earned too much (while having to pay the credit on the house and money was always tight). I worked two jobs next to my university. Quite a few economics and law students driving new BMWs, Mercedes and the likes received student loans (they only needed to be paid back in part, so quite a good investment to cover living expenses one could say) as their parents mostly lived from dividends with the family income from salaries (from their parent owned companies) were by design very low to reduce tax burden and had the nice side effect for their daughters and sons to qualify for government subsidized student loans. The system is setup to be gamed by those who have the financial means to do so without actual need to do so. While those with a need but no means need to pay (for those others). It was quite grotesque. Not few of these kids had higher end cars and more spending money than their professors. While still being subsidized by the state.
- TulliusCicero 5y ago
  I was easily able to get federal money for college even though my parents were doing fine and supporting me. I didn't cheat or lie or even bend the rules, I just had a secret power: I was married. Because of that, my parents' financial status wasn't even entered into the picture. It didn't even come up on any form.
- lordnacho 5y ago
  Seriously? So for instance I could just pay myself double this year and nothing next year from my personal corporation, and my kid would somehow pass as having a low income parent? Surely you have to count things like dividends, income in previous years, assets... Failing that just make it clear that you know when you're tricking the system and fingers will be pointed.
  - aiisjustanif 5y ago
    Nope, FASFA doesn’t even look at previous years, you could be poor now and not later as far as they are concerned. We could do a lot more research into each families situation but that’s a lot of time,effort, and probably very expensive. You could also get married young and hide it.

seanmcdirmid 5y ago

> but I can’t imagine that would ever be put into practice because it would hurt the wealthy too much. It definitely would hurt their bottom lines, since most of the private elites also provide non-loan financial aid out of their endowments to people who can’t otherwise afford to go. That only works if only a few poorer people make it over the bar. Public schools should step up more here, as it is their mission.

MontyCarloHall 5y ago
> That only works if only a few poorer people make it over the bar. That is not true. The per-capita endowment of Harvard (and other schools of its caliber) is so large that it could afford to entirely eliminate tuition[0]. Currently, approximately 60% of students receive some sort of financial aid, and 20% pay no tuition at all[1]. These figures are similar at other similar schools. [0] https://www.businessinsider.com/harvard-should-stop-charging-tuition-2014-10 https://www.businessinsider.com/harvard-should-stop-charging... [1] https://college.harvard.edu/guides/financial-aid-fact-sheet https://college.harvard.edu/guides/financial-aid-fact-sheet

giveyouareply 5y ago

It can be gamed. A long while back at University, I noticed very wealthy students on student income schemes that were only meant to be accessed by students whose parents qualified as low income status. The bar to qualify was quite difficult, if you had one parent employed in a job then it was unlikely you would qualify. I asked how they could qualify, while almost everyone had to work part time jobs to cover costs. It turns out their parents paid themselves a very low salary in order to qualify.

sdoering 5y ago
I remember nearly the same in Germany. When I was at university governmental student loans were a thing (still are). I didn't qualify, as my single dad earned too much (while having to pay the credit on the house and money was always tight). I worked two jobs next to my university. Quite a few economics and law students driving new BMWs, Mercedes and the likes received student loans (they only needed to be paid back in part, so quite a good investment to cover living expenses one could say) as their parents mostly lived from dividends with the family income from salaries (from their parent owned companies) were by design very low to reduce tax burden and had the nice side effect for their daughters and sons to qualify for government subsidized student loans. The system is setup to be gamed by those who have the financial means to do so without actual need to do so. While those with a need but no means need to pay (for those others). It was quite grotesque. Not few of these kids had higher end cars and more spending money than their professors. While still being subsidized by the state.
TulliusCicero 5y ago
I was easily able to get federal money for college even though my parents were doing fine and supporting me. I didn't cheat or lie or even bend the rules, I just had a secret power: I was married. Because of that, my parents' financial status wasn't even entered into the picture. It didn't even come up on any form.
lordnacho 5y ago
Seriously? So for instance I could just pay myself double this year and nothing next year from my personal corporation, and my kid would somehow pass as having a low income parent? Surely you have to count things like dividends, income in previous years, assets... Failing that just make it clear that you know when you're tricking the system and fingers will be pointed.
- aiisjustanif 5y ago
  Nope, FASFA doesn’t even look at previous years, you could be poor now and not later as far as they are concerned. We could do a lot more research into each families situation but that’s a lot of time,effort, and probably very expensive. You could also get married young and hide it.