8 ms·
The origin story of our new ortholinear keyboard
- yodon 5y agoHow is this better than the Kinesis Advantage2 which has been the gold standard in ergo keyboards for a very long time? https://kinesis-ergo.com/shop/advantage2/ https://kinesis-ergo.com/shop/advantage2/
- dbmikus 5y agoDifferences: - it's a split keyboard where you can move the splits separately - it uses standard keycaps so you can customize the keycaps - Kinesis Advantage2 is a bit unwieldy for gaming. - Firmware is open source, I believe The Advantage2 might still be the best bet for ergo typing
- thebean11 5y agoThose thumb cluster keys look pretty nonstandard
- fleaaa 5y agoIt isn't except it's premade one. Given the part they listed on the website, it's even pretty expensive for what it is..
- politician 5y agoI bought the KA2, a Logitech ERGO K860, and the ZSA Moonlander. I returned the KA2, use the K860 daily, and am keeping the moonlander for a VR side project. KA2 was a pain. I don't understand how people can use a keyboard that's got a 3" lip. Maybe it is supposed to be used from a keyboard tray, but definitely not on top of a lap or a desk.
- drozycki 5y agoI adjust my desk and chair so the level is just right for good posture. The 1.5" of keyboard height is necessary for the curved key wells, which make this keyboard more comfortable than any other I've tried.
- kadoban 5y agoI'd think this is more comparable to something in their Freestyle line, since it's split and with optional tenting.
- sesm 5y agoIt’s more similar to Ergodox, but thumb cluster positioning is different (IMO less ergonomic)
- pcmoney 5y ago1. Its a split keyboard 2. Its a bluetooth keyboard 3. It is much much smaller 4. It is has tenting features 5. It has an aluminum body not plastic 6. It does not use the hand scoops and does support aftermarket keys 7. It looks nice, no bulky black slabs of 90s computer plastic Did you read the article?
- mtalantikite 5y agoDoes anyone have a recommendation for a simplistic split keyboard? I've been curious about them as a better orientation for my shoulders, but I really have no need for all these glowing color leds and whatnot that gamers seem to like. The ZSA moonlander looks maybe the closest, but I'd really love to be able to disable the leds (or just not have them at all). Edit: Well that was fast, I'll check out the ergodox-ez for sure -- thanks!
- fleaaa 5y agoIf you go custom ones, all kind of of combination is there but premade is not so much, plain ergodox ez would be the closed of what you want. You can turn off the led btw. I assembled some out of curiosity but usually don't be bothered to turn it up on my own.
- mypalmike 5y agoI don't have the Moonlander, but on their Ergodox EZ the LEDs can easily be disabled.
- politician 5y agoZSA Moonlander is great, but don't go crazy on reprogramming all of the keys like I did because it'll be too hard to get real work done. My current plan is to use the Moonlander only for VR where I can't see the keys and will have to relearn how to type anyway.
- mattbaker 5y agoIt doesn’t get mentioned much but the kinesis “freestyle pro” was the one that finally fit my needs and it’s been a joy to use. Definitely worth consideration!
- goosedragons 5y agoJust a split or an ortholinear split? If you're just looking for a split keyboard there's options like the Kinesis Freestyle 2, the Matias Ergo Pro, the Mistel Barocco and other random little brands. If you want Ortholinear, thumb clusters, etc. then you pretty much are left with the Moonlander, Ergodox Ez, the upcoming Kinesis Advantage360 and building your own. Also if you don't care about fully split keyboards then you get options like the Kinesis Advantage 2, MS ergo boards etc.
- ahelwer 5y agoI have a renewed interest in fully-split keyboards because of the idea of using a VR headset instead of monitors for my day job - I currently just use a goldtouch partially-split/tilt keyboard which is inexpensive and works incredibly well at a desk. This opens up the possibility of moving away from a chair/desk combo to all sorts of varied positions - standing, sitting cross-legged on a cushion, various floor stretch positions as in [0], lying down, lounging on the couch, etc. I bought a quest 2 off craigslist for cheap to test this. I'm imagining that a split keyboard with some kind of integrated pointing device (tiny joystick? or just get very good at keyboard-only navigation) that mounts to your wrists or something would be ideal. Anyone have experience with trying different setups of this type? A quick youtube search brings up a custom-built leg-attached keyboard [1] but nothing commercial yet. [0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UPZa8yMLfWw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UPZa8yMLfWw [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iOupyi-lQZM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iOupyi-lQZM
- joshspankit 5y agoYou may also want to look at “chord” keyboards. Main reason is that they are designed to be held in the hand without visual cues
- surfsvammel 5y agoThis looks interesting. But will that design for tenting really work? It looks like it would buckle as soon as you lay your hand on them.
- warp 5y agoI assume it's similar to the tenting kit for their previous keyboard, which seems fine, there is a video on the bottom of this page: https://dygma.com/products/tenting-kit https://dygma.com/products/tenting-kit Seems a bit expensive though, so I wonder if they're going to make it an add-on kit for this new ortho keyboard as well, or if they're designing this one to have the tenting "built-in".
- goykasi 5y agoI cant tell which keyboard they are actually selling. Most of the pictures show a sleek split keyboard with buttons that look programmable -- especially around the thumbs, but on the buy button and store -- its a square, generic looking split keyboard. Am I missing something? edit: I suppose this is just mostly marketing. The new one looks pretty interesting.
- arnado 5y agoIf you click through to the previous article, it says they'll be launching a kickstarter campaign in spring.
- broptimist 5y agoFrom another one of their posts: "We are launching a crowdfunding campaign in spring, and we will start production right afterward. Our plan is to begin shipping in late summer or early fall."
- sulam 5y agoAs compared to the Moonlander, which is what I use as my daily driver this is an improvement in some ways: wireless connectivity, possibly tenting (assuming the base plate is rigid enough), but not as good in others: the thumb cluster seems strangely wide, and in the videos it seems like it operates as a combination thumb cluster / 5th row which is a nice segue to -- it's missing the fifth row. That means it's going to require layers to do most coding. Not great for me. It also seems very large, due to the way the wrist rest works. In the Moonlander that part is removable, but it seems to be part of the tenting system here. Maybe you can still remove it. Anyway, I like to try out these kinds of keyboards, but I might give this one a pass due to it not having the full complement of keys I need in one layer.
- getcrunk 5y agoWhat's the missing fifth tow you are referring to? The f keys
- sulam 5y agoNah, F keys would be a 6th row. It shows up most acutely on the right hand, where in keyboards in this dimension you would expect to see keys underneath the series "nm,./" which might (in my configuration) look like arrow up, down, [ and ]. This is also where you would expect {} to live. Not having an easy place to put these likely means you will have to put them in a layer. Swapping to layers to do [{}] as well as moving the insertion point in text up/down is a non-starter for me.
- samatman 5y agoI agree with this, I keep eyeing this keyboard (long-term ergodox user) and wanting to like it. Provisionally, I would say that adding three more keys on each side, under ./- on the right one, would make this a keyboard I would try and use. I fear even then that the ergonomics aren't really there, the one downside of the ergodox (which is why the Moonlander thumb cluster looks as it does) is that small buttons are hard to hit with the thumb, which is articulated sideways to a keyboard. Easy to sweep but difficult to select between two small targets, I'd expect to tap two keys often without a lot of practice.
- bamazizi 5y agoI don't know how keyboards and switches became an obsession for me. I was a happy with my CODE keyboard + Cherry MX Whites until about 2 years when I decided to try Ergodox Ez. I feel forced to use it because I've spent $$$ extra money on switches and keycaps on top of the already expensive keyboard. I didn't want to bother with Moonlander because of the negative experience of EZ version. I'm still waiting for Keyboardio Model 100 to arrive. After I had backed the kickstarter, Kinesis announced the Advantage360... I was really pissed because that's the one I "feel" I really want. I decided to skip 360 until end of the year where the custom switch option becomes available. I really hope Model 100 does it so I can finally stop spending money!!! (I doubt it) Ps. This keyboard is now on the list too, but not sure about the thumb cluster.
- tashoecraft 5y agoI have the model 1 and I really like it, the palm strike to trigger the other layers is really easy to use.
- tnorthcutt 5y agoAnother user of the model 1; I think the palm button is one of the best things about it. Makes using layers extremely low effort.
- getcrunk 5y agoI've been considering getting an ez? What don't you like about it?
- bamazizi 5y agoI don't recommend the EZ due to: - Thumb cluster, 4 of the 6 buttons (smaller ones) are hardly reachable organically. - Miss typing and frustrating first few months because of key layouts - You'll try 100s of layout changes in the config software, only to forget a lot of things and constantly going back to recall where what went! - The tilt kit. After a lot of tries, it now lays flat without any lifts. I tried a lot of setups and nothing really helped the comfort - Each keyboard piece constantly moving, it's really hard to build muscle memory when positions are mostly different - Build quality is plasticy and doesn't feel confident under the hands - Cables and connection
- bjelkeman-again 5y agoI used to have the Microsoft Ergonomic Natural Elite. Is there something modern, maybe programmable, that is like it. I particularly liked that it tilted up at the wrists to give a more natural wrist position.
- jabroni_salad 5y agoIt is not programmable, but the logitech k860 is nearly a drop-in replacement. I say 'nearly' because it's using scissor switches instead of membrane. The form factor is otherwise the same including the optional footrests being in the correct spot.
- bjelkeman-again 5y agoThanks. That looks good. I wish it had a wired option too.
- drozycki 5y agoI think the Advantage2 is still more ergonomic for most users since the keys are shaped in two curved wells which help keep all rows comfortably in reach without forearm or wrist movement. I have long fingers but someone with shorter fingers should still benefit in relative terms. My understanding is that the two curved circuit boards are expensive to produce, which may justify some of the $370 (wtf) cost. I bought mine used from Amazon Warehouse (used, good return policy) for $220 when I started experiencing RSI and have never looked back.
- grumpyprole 5y agoAnd the Advantage 360 is coming soon!
- tnorthcutt 5y agoLooks neat! So, we made a huge list, cracked the whip, and ensured our engineers checked every box. Eww.
- Jarmsy 5y agoThat is some utterly tone deaf copy writing.
- sakekasi 5y agoThis. Given that a lot of your customers are gonna be engineers, probably better not to make jokes about cracking the whip :)
- sakekasi 5y agoLooks like an interesting product overall though!
- cinntaile 5y agoThey're clearly just trying to insert a bit of humour into their text...
- sakekasi 5y agoyeah, that's true. It just feels a bit in bad taste. But everyone has a right to their own POV on it!
- cinntaile 5y agoThe way I see it is that a real sweatshop would never write they're cracking the whip. They'll use more neutral positive wording. So for me it's a signal that they actually treat their employees well.
- misterbwong 5y agoFor anyone having RSI issues and considering upgrading to a split/ergo/ortho keyboard, I'd encourage you to look into the Advantage360[1], Glove80[2], and ZSA Moonlander[3] in addition to this one. - Advantage360 - Pros: Concave key well, wireless, split, proven "real" company, proven ergonomics Cons: not low profile, not available until late 2022, not hotswap - Glove80 - Pros: Concave key well, wireless, split, low profile switches and caps, ergonomics look excellent Cons: Kickstarter, not available until late 2022, not hotswap, low profile switches & POM caps harder to replace - Moonlander - Pros: Available now from reputable company, hot swappable switches and caps, split Cons: No concave key well, thumb cluster difficult to reach, ergonomics don't seem as "comfortable". This one seems to be the most direct competitor to the one in OP, though the dygma's thumb cluster seems much closer (good for reachability but might get in the way?). After eyeing mech keyboards for ~1yr (analysis paralysis...) I decided to back the Glove80 and hope they ship in a reasonable timeframe. [1] https://kinesis-ergo.com/keyboards/advantage360/ https://kinesis-ergo.com/keyboards/advantage360/ [2] https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/moergo/glove80-the-incredibly-comfortable-ergonomic-keyboard https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/moergo/glove80-the-incr... [3] https://www.zsa.io/moonlander/ https://www.zsa.io/moonlander/
- jjuel 5y agoAs an ergo keyboard idiot, what are the advantages of the concave key well? I've seen more people using it recently, but have no idea what the advantage of that is.
- misterbwong 5y agoConcave key wells make the keys easier to reach and decreases the amount of finger/wrist travel. Key wells combined with the ability to adjust angle/tilt using tenting legs keeps your fingers and wrists in a more neutral position while typing. This helps reduce the amount of repetitive stress on your muscles/nerves/tendons/joints
- DrBoring 5y agoI don't understand the function of LEDs on keyboards. Is it purely aesthetic ? How much cost does the LED add to an already expensive split keyboard? Think of the engineering and coding that could be saved without the LEDs. The sales copy touts: "The LEDs can serve as visual support for your changes. Use different lighting for different layers, or use them to improve your touch-typing." Do people really use it for that? I suppose there is a difference between why people buy something (shiny feature) and how they actually use it. If the manufacturer is competing with other keyboards with the LED feature, I suppose they don't want to risk losing a sale. I just wish I could type comfortably without expensive hardware. </rant>
- coolso 5y agoThe market has spoken, and unfortunately, a lot of people simply won’t buy new computer hardware if it doesn’t have LGBTQ+ lights.
- DrBoring 5y ago> LGBTQ+ lights WTF?
- coolso 5y agoThe rainbow LED lights so common in basically everything from keyboards to RAM modules to computer fans for the past near-decade now.
- DrBoring 5y agoI understood your reference to the rainbow lights. I just thought it was odd/hostile to describe them in the manner which you did. Perhaps you were attempting humor and it missed. I suspect the ubiquitous rainbow LEDs are just there to be pretty and are unrelated to LBGTQ+ . I suspect the human eye naturally likes rainbows. I know I find them visually appealing. But I agree, RAM chips don't need to glow.
- getcrunk 5y ago
- dyingkneepad 5y agoDear Dygma people. Please make your keyboard work under the BIOS and Grub. Thanks, a happy-but-not-fully-happy customer.
- Tepix 5y agoThe upcoming Keyboardio Model 100 is also a contender in this niche. It does have sculpted keycaps.
- clircle 5y ago> It also doesn’t have dedicated F-keys or arrow keys. Why? You might say. Well, reducing finger stretching and hand movement is key to keyboard ergonomics. So, it doesn’t make much sense to have those keys if we want to encourage people to use layers and place them closer to the home row. I have a deep hatred for companies that try to rationalize removing functionality because think they know what's best for me. Using arrow and FN-keys is way better than having to change to a layer or typing key chords
- kkfx 5y agoHonestly anytime I see a post about a "special" keyboard I hope to find something nice for me and I am punctually disappointed by finding damn small/few keys keyboard. I'm an Emacs-er and I see nothing quicker than a damn key - a bind. all modern keyboards do try to sell less at a higher price stating that's small is better (for the OEM I imaging)... Actually I'm on a classic Unicomp PC122 not much loving it's cheap plastic and switches nor the fact that in the USB version many keys are just duplicates, but at least I have a bit of unique single keys. Sorry for the rant, I'm just exploded a bit...