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Belarus referendum approves proposal to renounce non-nuclear status
- antpls 5y agohttps://www.nhc.no/en/five-facts-about-the-referendum-in-belarus/ https://www.nhc.no/en/five-facts-about-the-referendum-in-bel... : "The amendments to this article will make it sound as follows: The Republic of Belarus excludes military aggression from its territory against other states." Either Lukashenko will tell Putin to remove Russian troops from Belarus, or Lukashenko is breaking the new constitution of his own country.
- ChemSpider 5y agoBelarus is de-facto a part of Russia now. I don't think that Alexander Lukashenko can make any independent decision anymore, except maybe the color of his underpants. He needs Putin for his survival. And he sacrificed his country's independence for it.
- endoskeleton 5y ago
- numlock86 5y agoCare to elaborate before I start giving you double as many counter examples?
- fsflover 5y agoOne example could be not giving asylum to Snowden, but it's not enough for such a strong claim.
- hef19898 5y agoOh, sure. That's why Nord Stream 2 wasn't built, French Fries were never named Freedom Fries, the German army invaded Iraq along side the US and the Boeing vs Airbus trade dispute was settled by the EU accepting all of the US demands.
- easymodex 5y agoIs that the narrative being spread in Russia?
- endoskeleton 5y agoDon't know. I live in Germany.
- zerr 5y agoComrade from GDR?
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- 88840-8855 5y ago
- ngc248 5y agoReminds me of this --> https://twitter.com/reckless/status/1495430376042422273 https://twitter.com/reckless/status/1495430376042422273
- simonh 5y agoI have a friend in the UK Military Police, he has soldiers claim their "right to remain silent" and "first amendment rights" all the time. He has to patiently explain to them that they have neither.
- dane-pgp 5y ago> their "right to remain silent" There are limits to this right (as to all rights), but it would be wrong to suggest that a "right to remain silent" does not exist in English law. As Wikipedia states (admittedly without citation): > In England and Wales, the right of suspects to refuse to answer questions during their actual trial (the "right to silence", or the right to remain silent as it is now known) was well established at common law from the 17th century.[0] More helpfully, the article also quotes a ruling of the European Court of Human Rights, which held that: > the right to remain silent under police questioning and the privilege against self-incrimination are generally recognised international standards which lie at the heart of the notion of a fair procedure under Article 6. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right_to_silence_in_England_and_Wales https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right_to_silence_in_England_an...
- hef19898 5y agoSince OP mentioned military police, I'm not sure soldiers on active duty actually have that right, generally speaking.
- 5y ago
- Borrible 5y agoYes, you could see that clearly when Germany, among others refused to join the 'Coalition of the willing' in 2003. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coalition_of_the_willing https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coalition_of_the_willing Ah, and welcome to HN, bot.
- hericium 5y agoI like "Vlad the Underpants Poisoner" title given Putin by Navalny after he confirmed[1] responsibility for novichok nerve agent in his underpants. Lukashenko's underpants may interest Putin. [1] https://www.cnn.com/2020/12/21/europe/russia-navalny-poisoning-underpants-ward/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2020/12/21/europe/russia-navalny-poisoni...
- dane-pgp 5y agoThe linked article doesn't use that title, and I've heard that "Vlad" is not a culturally accurate shortening of "Vladimir" anyway: > Vlad is short for Vladislav. The affectionate form of Vladimir would be Vova or Volodya. https://twitter.com/alexey__kovalev/status/890321448077856768 https://twitter.com/alexey__kovalev/status/89032144807785676...
- standardUser 5y agoBelarus is part of an official Union State with Russia, which is a framework designed to expand to eventually include other nations. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Union_State https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Union_State
- hef19898 5y agoDidn't know that! I'm learning a lot anout politics the region lately.
- guelo 5y agoThis organization was essentially dormant as Lukashenko tried to maintain some independence from Russia. But after he was almost toppled by a popular uprising two years ago he had to bend the knee to Putin to keep a hold on power. Belarus is now basically a puppet government with Russian troops permanently occupying.
- pjc50 5y agoThere's an explicit plan to reassemble "Greater Russia" around the historical borders of Kievan Rus. Which includes Belarus and Ukraine.
- dstick 5y agoIt seems that the only option left for Putin is the "nuclear" one (no pun intended) now that the whole world is seeing that the Russian army lost its morale, and its teeth. Old equipment, young soldiers that are harder to brainwash than in the old days. It is fascinating to see for the first time in the modern age what effect modern media consumption and the internet has on a local war. While it is undeniably true that open communication and the internet has corrupted the value of information, it seems that for the first time in 20 years we're witnessing the flip side of this coin as well. It's harder to mobilise people behind a corrupt cause once blood starts flowing. Curious to see how this plays out! And yes - there have been wars for the last 20 years, I know. But if we're honest, from a purely geographical perspective, this is the first war on the European continent in the 2000's.
- megous 5y agoOther options for Russia are always negotiation and withdrawal. It's not like there would be an counter-attack.
- tasubotadas 5y agoFor Russia? Yes. For Putin? No.
- trompetenaccoun 5y agoThat depends entirely - what was the goal of this attack in the first place? Did he think he could quickly take Ukraine and the West wouldn't interfere? It's possible. His soldiers look unmotivated, even unprepared though. Maybe it's part of a larger strategy. We might see more crisis popping up soon.
- jnsaff2 5y agoIn soviet times (and possibly any other tyrant dictator era) the dictator was told what he wanted to hear or be (literally or figuratively) dead. So perfectly valid assumption is that command chain inflated the capabilities and morale of the army wildly. Also, I think it would be naive to think that the army is the one place were kleptocracy is not stealing from. So who knows, maybe the tyrant is playing 5D chess and shit is going to go really bad or he could be playing 1D chess because ...
- nine_k 5y agoBelarus regime being what it is, I'd not think that the referendum actually reflects people's opinion, and the result was not predetermined. OTOH I suspect that after the events of 2014 and 2022, Ukraine will remain the last country in history to willingly give up nuclear weapons. Many more countries will think about developing an deploying their own nukes, or at least staying one step away from actually producing them.
- hef19898 5y agoThat's one of the lessons, isn't it? First the West reneged on the Nuclear deal with Iran, now Russia invaded Ukraine. All the while North Korea is just simply left alone.
- gonzo41 5y agoNK is not really left alone. They face very tough sanctions daily. But I agree, broadly I think there will be an arms race for nuclear weapons amongst the smaller asian countries.
- hef19898 5y agoSanctions, sure. But no real military conflict, or attempted regime change by anyone, since the end of the Korean War. NK is at peace with its neighbors (meaning direct military conflict) almost as long as Europe is (ignoring the non-EU countries for now). On top of that, the nuclear arsenal allowed NK to get away with a ton of human rights abuses and all the other shit, like shooting missiles over Japan, for decades.
- dtech 5y agoI think it's simplistic to just put that on "NK have nukes". They also have support from China, who want them as a buffer and don't want to deal with the refugees from the state collapsing.
- einpoklum 5y ago> But no real military conflict NK and the US are still in a state of war, I believe. US vessels and other kinds of armaments are semi-surrounding it, and again IIRC there are occasional joint military exercises of the US and SK.
- altmind 5y agotheres no doubt this was referendum where the votes were not counted. in the prev online-elections the newly elected president got like 3% approval rating.
- concerned_user 5y ago3% comes from internet poll done by one of the newspapers, after the elections, during first weeks of the protests, while somewhat independent newspapers were still publishing. The independent papers were closed few months later, those that weren't turned off their comment sections and started filtering what they publish.
- 07d046 5y agoIronically, one of Putin's stated reasons for invading Ukraine was that Ukraine might get nuclear weapons.
- ausudhz 5y agoSource?
- rad_gruchalski 5y agoVladimir Putin: https://www.nytimes.com/2022/02/23/us/politics/putin-ukraine-nuclear-weapons.html https://www.nytimes.com/2022/02/23/us/politics/putin-ukraine... > Mr. Putin’s arguments occupied a third of his speech to the Russian people on Monday, when he made a series of bizarre charges that “Ukraine intends to create its own nuclear weapons, and this is not just bragging.” And if you don't trust NYT, just listen to his speech...
- dncornholio 5y agoAnything Putin says is worthless
- zihotki 5y agoIn slavic countries there is a saying, how do you know if Putin is lying? If he opens his mouth he is lying.
- rad_gruchalski 5y agoDuh, really… The person asked for a source…
- 07d046 5y agoTrue, but that's why I said "stated reason". Here's the full speech: https://theprint.in/world/modern-ukraine-entirely-created-by-russia-read-full-text-of-vladimir-putins-speech/843801/ https://theprint.in/world/modern-ukraine-entirely-created-by...
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- aemreunal 5y agohttps://archive.fo/hfI7b https://archive.fo/hfI7b
- piokoch 5y agoThis is empty gesture, just a symbol of Belarus serfdom. Russian army was already free to enter Belarus using any convenient reason like military exercises so status quo hasn't really changed. Russia might keep nukes in Kaliningrad Oblast so from the security perspective nothing major had changed.
- vilius 5y agoI would not be so quick to dismiss it. Belarus claims that it still is an independent country. If it uses a nuclear weapon then it cannot be treated as if Russians used it directly. At least in Russia it would be easier for propaganda to push the story that Lukashenko did it.
- cyberpunk 5y ago.... Well, I didn't think about that side really. Goddamn. Are we really going there? Recon I should get in the car and head for the north already? ;)
- maury91 5y agoFor me is the opposite, time to head south and leave Vilnius, got Minsk at only 100mi from here
- xoa 5y ago>If it uses a nuclear weapon then it cannot be treated as if Russians used it directly. What!? Of course it can, and would be. This isn't a game. Nobody cares about tissue thin fig leaves when it comes to nukes. Belarus has zero ability to make its own. Any nukes it uses that came from Russia would be completely Russian responsibility. If it cooperated that might earn it a few nukes back amongst the thousands aimed at Russia but that's it.
- devpl 5y agoit's getting really serious right now https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yM3SOQQ-7ng https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yM3SOQQ-7ng
- yolo3000 5y agoTime to move to Africa
- glandium 5y agoMore than half of Africa is in some sort of active war, according to https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ongoing_armed_conflicts https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ongoing_armed_confli...
- notapenny 5y agoYou probably wouldn't get downvoted if you added some context, but the description of the video is apt. NATO doesn't want to go into Ukraine because NATO directly getting involved could cause escalation to WWIII. Putin seems crazy enough to want to use the nuclear option.
- the-dude 5y agoMeanwhile in the EU, specifically in The Netherlands, we had a referendum about the Ukraine EU assoc treaty in 2016. 60% of the voters voted against. Guess what happened? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_Dutch_Ukraine%E2%80%93European_Union_Association_Agreement_referendum https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_Dutch_Ukraine%E2%80%93Eur...
- quonn 5y agoSo a single country out of 28 couldn‘t block it. Good. And an addendum was added to address the concerns. And the association treaty is merely a preparation, so that the country that wants to become a member can start to fulfill the requirements.
- the-dude 5y agoYou sound like our Prime Minister. I am just pointing out wether your corrupt regime is associated with NATO or not, a referendum is not worth much if anything at all.
- notapenny 5y agoIt was advisory and non-binding. I for one am happy that we get to express our opinions in this way, but the communication around it could've been better. At the time I recall also not knowing that it was non-binding. Calling it a referendum probably set incorrect expectations.
- raxxorrax 5y agoIt basically spawned a civil war though.
- secondcoming 5y agoWhat happened? Would Ukraine being a member of the EU prevented Russia from attacking, or would it have accelerated it?
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- PedroBatista 5y agoBy “referendum” do they mean he called his aunts and cousins?
- hdivider 5y agoOne positive side effect: this result, in the context of an ongoing land war in Europe will finally help to rattle us Europeans out of our traditional resistance to defense and military investment. (I'm both British and German.) Stronger Europe -> stronger NATO -> more options for the Alliance, and for the US to prevent conflict in and out of Europe, since Europeans will shoulder more of the local deterrence burden. Consider also the R&D spinoffs which typically result from military investment. These are dark times -- but longer term, imagine how much civilian technological advancement we can get out of this. This in turn can relieve so many other social and political problems in the West.
- hef19898 5y agoCan be a net positive, if we also start to really stand by our principles of democracy and equality. The EU and NATO have a less then stelar track record on those for quite a while. And the European disdain for military and defense spending only started after the end of the cold war when huge standing armies weren't needed anymore.
- hdivider 5y ago"Can be a net positive, if we also start to really stand by our principles of democracy and equality. The EU and NATO have a less then stelar track record on those for quite a while." Absolutely. Our values are the engine of this entire thing. I'd say thanks to our insanely wired world, with the daily metric ton of stories coming out of Ukraine, people are realizing how precious Western values are, what they actually mean, and how necessary it is to defend them. We haven't thought in these terms for quite a while, in the context of superpower aggression. "And the European disdain for military and defense spending only started after the end of the cold war when huge standing armies weren't needed anymore." Yep -- we all hoped and worked towards a more advanced world. We didn't quite get it. But with the Kremlin intentions and ruthlessness made clear, for all to see, we now can make a wiser attempt. The aggregate political will that existed in Europe just 1 week ago, will now take a very different shape. That's despite Brexit, the pandemic, and the memory of our many past misdeeds. Great to see Western unity. That's what's holding the world together right now.
- brokenkebab 5y agoDue to journo's lazyness headline became misleading: in Belarus votes are not really counted anymore. Like literally, numbers are taken out of thin air. So it's not like "referendum approves" anything - it's Lukashenka decides
- LatteLazy 5y agoI honestly don't know what Putin hopes to achieve here. Day one, every other country in europe joins NATO and wants nukes too to point at Russia. How does that help him? He's gained the Ukraine and lost the whole rest of the continent...