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Neutral Swiss poised to freeze Russian assets – president
- jiffygist 5y agoWill that include personal bank accounts of Russians working in Switzerland?
- IYasha 5y agoSo, cooperation with Germany during WW2 was OK, but now "we ain't siding with baddies". okay...
- thriftwy 5y agoThe more sanctions there are, the more stuff Putin has to conquer to use as bargaining chips to lift those sanctions. I just wonder how this is supposed to work in any other way. They ensure that the war won't stop because Putin has already faced some consequences on the domestic front and how he has to show some black ink.
- _ph_ 5y agoThere is only one thing he needs to do to lift the sanctions, and that is independant from his conquests. That is: leave the Ukraine. Actually, it is the other way around. The less damage is done, the more likely is a quick lift of sanctions.
- thriftwy 5y agoThere's no legal mechanism which will automatically terminate these sanctions (which, I believe, are placed by different entities in ad hoc basis, as opposed as centralized control) over Putin leaving Ukraine. If Putin leaves Ukraine, the asset freezing and all the other stuff stays, and may be discussed later. That's why he won't leave Ukraine even under heavy discomfort of maintaining that presence.
- newaccount74 5y agoI'm pretty sure most countries would be eager to lift the sanctions rather quickly, since they are losing a lot of business due to the sanctions. If Putin really stopped the invasion, then the sanctions would probably be undone rather quickly.
- Mountain_Skies 5y agoIf it becomes apparent that Russia is going to stay in Ukraine, business interests will immediately start prodding their governments for special exceptions. There will start off on humanitarian grounds, like medicines and medical devices but we've seen with sanctions on other countries that over time these exceptions grow, often due to financial interests of the well connected. You'll probably never be able to export cheese to Russia but lots of things with dual uses will get approved for export and then used for both uses even though only approved for one use.
- NoPie 5y agoI think that Putin has crossed the line and the EU will not give up sanctions easily. The EU just announced that will provide financing for fighter jets that will be given to Ukraine. The EU president also said that will accept Ukraine in the EU (with due improvements of course). They are really big announcements. Everything has changed during these days.
- dboreham 5y agoPutin's huge mistake was that he pissed off regular people in the west. Through snapchat and tiktok etc young people have become aware in a new way how much of a dick he is. These people then put pressure on their governments to act.
- User23 5y agoThat’s a laugh. It’s already been proven that regular people in the west have literally no political say[1]. What we can infer is that western oligarchs are committed to Ukraine or at least are firmly anti-Russian. [1] https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/perspectives-on-politics/article/testing-theories-of-american-politics-elites-interest-groups-and-average-citizens/62327F513959D0A304D4893B382B992B https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/perspectives-on-poli...
- gerikson 5y agoWhat? The sanctions can be lifted when Russia withdraws from Ukraine, pays reparations, and is bound by international agreements not to do something like this again.
- wereHamster 5y agoAt this point, would anyone trust Putin?
- andy_ppp 5y agoThis is the issue; where is the end game here for Putin, I can't see a way out for him and the people who surround him. My psychological analysis of him basically says Putin is the king of the gangsters and he knows as such he needs to keep everyone scared and also demonstrate his power. The way you get to be Putin is to behave in the most extreme way possible when crossed, this pattern is likely to continue one way or another. We should seriously think about something we can do to give the gangster a way out (appease his ego while he in return withdraws). I know this sounds weak but the other options are really very bad, a disconnected Russia with loads of nukes with a leader with an increasingly extreme disposition that blames the West for all his problems (because Putin has stopped being able to be wrong). Tell me this situation I've outlined is fine because to me it certainly means sabotaging of the West at the least and nuclear war at worst? That he will be replaced by people in the Kremlin is extremely unlikely in my opinion and who is to say his replacement will be anything less than consistent with the Cold War mentality Putin seems to be spouting.
- teaearlgraycold 5y agoI think one way out is for Putin to get scapegoated by his inner circle. He's only the dictator of Russia as long as they're happy.
- andy_ppp 5y agoI think you misunderstand how scared everyone around Putin is of him and the KGB. Especially the oligarchs - you think they give him 50% of their money because they really appreciate how nice and kind Putin is?
- gloriana 5y agoI truly hope the same measures will be taken against US or other nation's acts of aggression in the future. e.g. Yemen, Afghanistan,Iraq. This is a great precedent to set.
- happytoexplain 5y agoHow can they distinguish good from bad justifications for aggression? Russia's current actions seem to be at one extreme, while, say, responding to an attack from another government would be on the other extreme (barring extenuating circumstances), while the US usually has an (ostensible) justification somewhere in the middle. Afghanistan after 9/11 is a good of example of something that was hard for another western nation to argue against the justification for starting (how it went is another story).
- shadowgovt 5y ago> How can they distinguish good from bad justifications for aggression? On a case-by-case basis. As you note, the international community probably wouldn't have reacted against the US regarding Afghanistan (and probably should have regarding Iraq).
- nsonha 5y ago"good aggression" Be aware that most people cannot read Chinese or Russian, and as such their whole world perspective is fed by an one sided narrative. I suggest you listen to these[1][2] talks, and Putin's speech[3] on NATO expansion in Munich in 2007. Pozner[1] pointed out that up to 2007, Putin really tried to be friend with the West, including asking to join NATO. Of course they were "the enemy". [1]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8X7Ng75e5gQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8X7Ng75e5gQ [2]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JrMiSQAGOS4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JrMiSQAGOS4 [3]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hQ58Yv6kP44 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hQ58Yv6kP44
- happytoexplain 5y agoPlease try not to misquote me. I made no reference to good aggression, only justifiable aggression. Even then, while it would be fine to form an argument that no such thing exists, it's unrealistic to despise the man who returns a punch. As for Russia's reasonable concerns about the West and the nigh-impossibility of objectively or thoroughly observing foreign points of view - both are true and important, yet neither serve in the least to justify attacking Ukraine's capital.
- 55555 5y agoIs this unprecedented for Switzerland? Does anyone know? I know Switzerland as a bank that accepted Nazi depositors during WWII.
- smoe 5y agoFreezing accounts is definitly not unprecedented. For example accounts of Gaddafi and his circles. But what I think is a bit unprecedented is the speed. Usually Swiss politics moves in months and years, not days.
- blunte 5y agoSwitzerland risks backlash from the rest of the wealthy countries if they do not quickly come on board with the generally accepted response to Russia's actions. With the many financial laws and agreements that exist now between countries, Switzerland has less financial value (secrecy) than it once had. So it cannot afford to lose ground now.
- smoe 5y agoNot just externally. If they don’t move faster, they all, maybe except the right wing party, are committing political suicide from their constituencies.
- aemreunal 5y agohttps://archive.fo/baj7M https://archive.fo/baj7M
- monkeybutton 5y agoWhat I find interesting is that the sanctions of Russia and support of Ukraine is accelerating faster and faster every day. Had the initial plan of decapitating the government and installing a puppet who signs a peace agreement with Russia worked, I doubt we'd be seeing the same level of support as now. Apparently the EU is now giving them jets in addition to all the small arms, fuel and anti-tank weapons. With all the economic sanctions it seems like they want to collapse the Russian economy and instigate regime change from the inside. Putin made a risky bet by attacking Ukraine, but the EU collapsing Russia with all their nukes still hanging around and hoping the next government in charge is more stable is a way more risky bet.
- liuliu 5y agoIt is a risky bet (and unlikely the next one after Putin would be any better). But it is also a deterrance. Anyone who would want to initiate a war in EU needs to think twice (if EU is successful this time) after this.
- pixl97 5y agoYou mean Putin threatening the west with his nukes a few times a day is not a risk?
- turbinerneiter 5y agoThat's because of Zelenskyy and what he represents. Usually, you'd expect a state like Ukraine (ex Sowjet) to be corrupt and run by oligarchs with no support by the populace. In that situation, Russia would waltz in, the old depot would flee the country, Russia would isntall a puppet and the populace would be indefferent to it, since it's just more of the same shit. But Zelenskyy was serious in cleaning up the Ukraine, he is not fleeing and he is uniting the nation. This was Putin's big mistake. He believed he could scare away a greedy despot to replace him with another one. Instead, the Ukraine has a true leader and developed a real national identity. For Putin, this is a nightmare. For the west, we finally have someone worth supporting (often we have the issue that we don't know how is the bad and the good guy, see Syria, Mali). I have nothing to prove it, this is just speculation, taken from some tweets I saw. It makes sense to me, but I have no social insights. This whole thing could have looked very different under any of the former leaders of the Ukraine.
- kaycebasques 5y agoRegardless of politics I think it's objective to say we're seeing a major increase in the weaponization of the global financial system. Perhaps the most important second order effect (assuming/praying that the war ends very soon) is a faster de-dollarization in China. A question: does Switzerland have any prior precedent of actions like this? I thought they were neutral?
- cjbgkagh 5y agoIt’s like society has progressed very quickly from financially canceling people to financially cancelling countries
- lm28469 5y agoWe also progressed from annihilating countries to financially "cancelling" countries. Financial war is still better than total war You can also ask Cuba what they think about the "new" aspect of financial cancellation, or 1920s Germany
- cjbgkagh 5y agoIt seems that this is a result of populist pressure, hence the qualifier 'society' and that part seems new. I think the politicians were hesitant to do this for good reasons, I assume that they didn't want to back Russia into a corner. Back Cuba or 1920s Germany into a corner fine... but Russia that is a whole different beast. There is a very Twitter mob feel about it.
- threeseed 5y agoYou must be utterly delusional to think that the EU, US, Japan etc. are implementing these sanctions because of popular pressure and not because Russia's behaviour is an existential threat to the world order. If it was purely populist Germany would be using the $100b they have committed for NATO defence and spent it on universally popular policies e.g. tax cuts or handouts.
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- sto_hristo 5y ago
- cameronh90 5y agoWe can't use stick against someone pointing thousands of nukes at you.
- staticautomatic 5y agoIt’s a stick the Russian people will have to wield so long as the Russian government has nukes.
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- monkeybutton 5y agoThis is a terrible take on the good people living there. It is the type of thing I expect French aristocrats were saying to each other about peasants in the weeks / months leading up to them getting their heads chopped off: >born in misery, live in misery, die in misery; don't look up their pensions - it's depressing. This has been their life since forever now. They are more cattle
- dang 5y agoSlurs like this will get you banned on HN, regardless of how strongly you feel. No more of this, please. Yes, there's a war going on, and that means we should all be more careful, not less, not to degenerate like this. If you'd please review https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and stick to the rules when posting here, we'd appreciate it. Note this one: "Comments should get more thoughtful and substantive, not less, as a topic gets more divisive." Edit: you've been breaking the site guidelines a lot lately. We've also had to ask you more than once not to do this: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30015930 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30015930 (Jan 2022) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28544412 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28544412 (Sept 2021) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26613402 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26613402 (March 2021) If you keep this up, we will have to ban you.
- FinanceAnon 5y agoI wonder what was the impact of Credit Suisse leaks on this.
- dougSF70 5y agoI have read that Putin's rumored $150bn wealth stash is in a Swiss Bank.
- chinathrow 5y agoSources for his wealth and sources for where it's stored?
- dougSF70 5y agoRumors and hearsay regarding his wealth, he does a good job of concealing it.
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- jaimex2 5y agoThis would be great news for Crypto if true.
- jaimex2 5y agoOh please. Ya'll know its mostly backed by cartel cocaine money.
- ulkram 5y agoCurrency Wars → Trade Wars → Shooting Wars
- Proven 5y ago