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Russia turning more and more into North Korea.

by cbg0 5y ago

nickpp 5y ago
The dictator's playbook is always the same...
dade_ 5y ago
I think the Soviets wrote the handbook NK uses.
- hsavit1 5y ago
  Extremely lacking in historical analysis. Putin is not a socialist or a Soviet - in fact Putin is reportedly very anti-socialist - and Russia's aggression has little in common with the tendencies of the Soviet Union.
  - dade_ 5y ago
    Putin was a member of the Soviet KGB. I am saying the Soviet Union methods are at the root of both, also the PRC.
    - nickpp 5y ago
      Also he lived his first 38 years under the Soviets, working in one of their most emblematic institutions, the KGB. He is not only a product of the inhumane ideology that drove the USSR, he embodies it. You can see it in his disregard of human life, in his placing of the crushing powers of the state over individual freedoms. It's also the ideology of the PRC, and NK indeed. It's simple: communism needs dictatorship to survive and it attracts and enables the most powerful dictators: madmen and psychopaths.
  - throwaway48292 5y ago
    The comment you replied to said North Korea not Putin though
    - hsavit1 5y ago
      It was clear to me that the original comment's purpose was to associate North Korea's interest's with that of the Soviet's. It wouldn't be much of a stretch to say that the original commenter was trying to associate Putin's actions with those of North Korea and therefore the Soviet Union.
      - nickpp 5y ago
        Both the PRC and NK are the (ideological) children of USSR.
jacquesm 5y ago
With the caveat that North Korea's leader appears to be the more sane one at the moment, which is something that I can still hardly believe is true.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- paganel 5y ago
  I used to believe the same thing, or I had started to in the last 24-48 hours, i.e. that Putin is “crazy” and such. Until, by chance, I stumbled on the Wikipedia page [1] of his main ideology from the last 10-15 years, Vladislav Surkov, and noticed a few quotes from an interview he gave in February 2020, just as the pandemic was beginning: > He claimed that "There is no Ukraine", adding that "coercion to fraternal relations by force is the only method that has historically proven its effectiveness in the Ukrainian direction. I do not think that some other will be invented The “there is no Ukraine” quote is exactly what Putin said in the speech he made at the start of the week, the one where he discussed history and the general situation on those lands. Also, mentioning “brotherly violence” as the only solution to the Ukraine situation, two years before this week’s invasion, is highly revelatory. It made me more at ease, to be honest, I realized that Putin is not “crazy”, he’s just following through a system and a doctrine that had been put in place years before. It might be a bad system, a bad doctrine, but we’re not at the mercy of a single person whose mind was negatively affected by the pandemic (as the Western press is sometimes alluding), the invasion doctrine had already been in there for some time, and is not a creation of only Putin the man himself. [1] https://wikipedia.org/wiki/Vladislav_Surkov https://wikipedia.org/wiki/Vladislav_Surkov
  - sillysaurusx 5y ago
    The thing is, the only difference between a crazy ideology and one that works is whether it works. The Ukrainians have been independent long enough that "crazy" seems to be a reasonable adjective to apply, for the following reason: Putin seems to think that Ukraine will join Russia, rather than launch a years-long insurgency in the best case (let alone win the war in the worst case, apparently). Ideology only works if you can pull it off. Otherwise, is the world really mistaken for attaching labels like "unhinged"? Almost every fanatic believes they're acting for good reasons. They pretty much have to believe it by definition.
agumonkey 5y ago
It's like binge watching 3rd Reich in 10x. False pretense, flash expansionism, bs political communication, cutting information streams.
- iszomer 5y ago
  I'm inclined to believe that people would opt for condensed versions of history as brief generalities than being aware of the overall context as well as nuances that may have potentially or conveniently ignored for expedience. I know Rep. Dan Crenshaw is unpopular on HN but he recently interviewed [1] Jon Huntsman Jr, the former ambassador to both China and Russia. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X1cPSFxW0Xs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X1cPSFxW0Xs

Russia turning more and more into North Korea.

by cbg0 5y ago

Russia turning more and more into North Korea.

nickpp 5y ago

The dictator's playbook is always the same...

dade_ 5y ago

I think the Soviets wrote the handbook NK uses.

hsavit1 5y ago
Extremely lacking in historical analysis. Putin is not a socialist or a Soviet - in fact Putin is reportedly very anti-socialist - and Russia's aggression has little in common with the tendencies of the Soviet Union.
- dade_ 5y ago
  Putin was a member of the Soviet KGB. I am saying the Soviet Union methods are at the root of both, also the PRC.
  - nickpp 5y ago
    Also he lived his first 38 years under the Soviets, working in one of their most emblematic institutions, the KGB. He is not only a product of the inhumane ideology that drove the USSR, he embodies it. You can see it in his disregard of human life, in his placing of the crushing powers of the state over individual freedoms. It's also the ideology of the PRC, and NK indeed. It's simple: communism needs dictatorship to survive and it attracts and enables the most powerful dictators: madmen and psychopaths.
- throwaway48292 5y ago
  The comment you replied to said North Korea not Putin though
  - hsavit1 5y ago
    It was clear to me that the original comment's purpose was to associate North Korea's interest's with that of the Soviet's. It wouldn't be much of a stretch to say that the original commenter was trying to associate Putin's actions with those of North Korea and therefore the Soviet Union.
    - nickpp 5y ago
      Both the PRC and NK are the (ideological) children of USSR.

jacquesm 5y ago

With the caveat that North Korea's leader appears to be the more sane one at the moment, which is something that I can still hardly believe is true.

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
paganel 5y ago
I used to believe the same thing, or I had started to in the last 24-48 hours, i.e. that Putin is “crazy” and such. Until, by chance, I stumbled on the Wikipedia page [1] of his main ideology from the last 10-15 years, Vladislav Surkov, and noticed a few quotes from an interview he gave in February 2020, just as the pandemic was beginning: > He claimed that "There is no Ukraine", adding that "coercion to fraternal relations by force is the only method that has historically proven its effectiveness in the Ukrainian direction. I do not think that some other will be invented The “there is no Ukraine” quote is exactly what Putin said in the speech he made at the start of the week, the one where he discussed history and the general situation on those lands. Also, mentioning “brotherly violence” as the only solution to the Ukraine situation, two years before this week’s invasion, is highly revelatory. It made me more at ease, to be honest, I realized that Putin is not “crazy”, he’s just following through a system and a doctrine that had been put in place years before. It might be a bad system, a bad doctrine, but we’re not at the mercy of a single person whose mind was negatively affected by the pandemic (as the Western press is sometimes alluding), the invasion doctrine had already been in there for some time, and is not a creation of only Putin the man himself. [1] https://wikipedia.org/wiki/Vladislav_Surkov https://wikipedia.org/wiki/Vladislav_Surkov
- sillysaurusx 5y ago
  The thing is, the only difference between a crazy ideology and one that works is whether it works. The Ukrainians have been independent long enough that "crazy" seems to be a reasonable adjective to apply, for the following reason: Putin seems to think that Ukraine will join Russia, rather than launch a years-long insurgency in the best case (let alone win the war in the worst case, apparently). Ideology only works if you can pull it off. Otherwise, is the world really mistaken for attaching labels like "unhinged"? Almost every fanatic believes they're acting for good reasons. They pretty much have to believe it by definition.

agumonkey 5y ago

It's like binge watching 3rd Reich in 10x. False pretense, flash expansionism, bs political communication, cutting information streams.

iszomer 5y ago
I'm inclined to believe that people would opt for condensed versions of history as brief generalities than being aware of the overall context as well as nuances that may have potentially or conveniently ignored for expedience. I know Rep. Dan Crenshaw is unpopular on HN but he recently interviewed [1] Jon Huntsman Jr, the former ambassador to both China and Russia. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X1cPSFxW0Xs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X1cPSFxW0Xs