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U.S. Treasury Announces Unprecedented and Expansive Sanctions Against Russia

59 points by madars 5y ago

megamike 5y ago
“I don’t know what’s gonna happen, but I wanna have my kicks before the whole shithouse goes up in flames” - Jim Morrison
tinalumfoil 5y ago
> Imposing Swift and Severe Economic Costs It's funny seeing "swift" in so many of these headlines, I think it's a subconscious reference to what people are really thinking about. Some context, one of the stiffest penalties on the table for Russia is remove them from the SWIFT [0]. As I understand things this is up to western Europe is still being decided. [0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SWIFT https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SWIFT
- BrentOzar 5y ago
  I don't think it's subconscious - I think it's an SEO technique. People are checking whether Russia has been removed from SWIFT yet or not, and if your title has that unusual word, bonus points for you.
  - electroly 5y ago
    "Swift and severe" is taken from a quote from the Secretary of the Treasury. I mean, anything is possible, but I don't think the U.S. Treasury is employing SEO tactics in the headlines of their press releases.
- rurban 5y ago
  Germany vetoed it. So Russia has Germany at its balls, gas I assume. The official secret partyline is that they have massive debt in Russia. As if they cannot confiscate all the European assets, which would be roughly 1000x more. And without SWIFT the sanctions are useless. Now only mass strikes in the Ukraine can bring down the new soon to be selected leaders. Or giving every Ukrainian a gun. Which would eventually lead to an American-style society. Ukranians didn't opt for that.
  - inter_netuser 5y ago
    Handing out guns doesn't quite work. Czechs have a 500 year old gun culture, and were quite well armed. It is a shall-issue country, and every gun permit is automatically a concealed carry permit. Today, close to 20-25% of the country own guns, probably more undeclared owners. Nevertheless, it got occupied by Germany and by Russia on two separate occasions, and at some point "elected" Hapsburgs. The days of "God made Men. Smith&Wesson made them equal" are long past, and we are now well into the age of neo-feudalism. Choose your suzerain carefully.
  - chalcolithic 5y ago
    >And without SWIFT the sanctions are useless. Dunno, Soviet Union was just fine without SWIFT, but crumbled due to low oil prices. I'm surprised it's not being worked on right now.
- weare138 5y ago
  They know their Russian counterparts are going to see the announcement so I'm thinking it's a subtle dig and veiled threat to remind them it can get way worse.
megamike 5y ago
HA this is mostly blustering Russia has gas and oil which we (and ESPECIALLY Europe) want
- mywittyname 5y ago
  One of the benefits of propping up evil regimes in the middle east is that they can step in should one of their competitors attempt cause supply disruptions. So if you've ever wonder why we let SA get away with <terrible deed>. This right here is the reason. Politics is a dirty business.
- celticninja 5y ago
  A reliance on a fuel type we are already trying to get rid of, this will hasten that.
- chemeng 5y ago
  By “we” I assume you mean the USA. Which is a net exporter of oil and the largest oil producer as of 2021. It also receives almost no imports from Russia, and will increase exports to EU at current high prices. Russian oil restriction plays to US energy strengths but the US won’t move unilaterally without EU support due to their dependence.
  - willcipriano 5y ago
    The US is no longer a net exporter: https://www.foxbusiness.com/energy/us-energy-independence-on-way-out https://www.foxbusiness.com/energy/us-energy-independence-on...
    - chemeng 5y ago
      Looks like they were predicting that in the beginning of 2021, though for 1H2021, US was still a net exporter. Don’t think they will be for 2022. https://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.php?id=49596 https://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.php?id=49596
  - netsharc 5y ago
robert_foss 5y ago
I'm not sure this qualifies as expansive exactly.
- rosndo 5y ago
  Then you have no idea what you are talking about. I own a lot of property in Moscow, have lived there for years. These sanctions will devastate the Russian economy, they are truly hitting key pieces. Sberbank and VTB are enough to have severe impact on the average citizen.
  - nine_zeros 5y ago
    Serious question - How do sanctions impact Russian bank working with Russian Rubles within the Russian economy?
    - rosndo 5y ago
      People in these countries don’t really trust their currencies, many have their salaries paid in USD or Euro. Most Russian consumer goods are foreign imports that were paid for in USD. Today all banks in Moscow have been full of people trying to get their money out in not-rubles, Friday might get even worse.
  - kilroy123 5y ago
    Interesting. What is your take on the entire situation? Why do you think Putin is doing this?
    - rosndo 5y ago
      > What is your take on the entire situation? Terrifying, I’ve been working around the clock to evacuate my friends and their families from Ukraine. Even now many are very reluctant to leave, trying to convince themselves that the war will end as fast as it started. At least the western borders are mostly open now, I have multiple friends with kids who don’t have passports. In Russia? Fuck knows, nobody I know well would be there this time of the year. Russian friends in London and Europe have little faith in Putin being able to keep this up, even if most of these people were in favour of the annexation of Crimea. My telegram is getting spammed with lots of pictures of increasingly large protests in big cities, hopefully they will continue growing. > Why do you think Putin is doing this? Nobody knows. My wife is the daughter of a Russian oligarch likely to be sanctioned soon, nobody in our circles has any idea why this is happening. Nobody believed there would be a war until the moment it started, most have purchased other passports and many are planning to get rid of their russian citizenships. I emptied my Kiev apartment wednesday and had everything transferred to Romania, most of my friends were laughing about me being paranoid. They’re not laughing anymore.
webwielder2 5y ago
Have economic sanctions ever succeeded in altering the behavior of authoritarians? It pretty much always just ends up impoverishing the normal people of a country, which authoritarians do not care about.
- datavirtue 5y ago
  The sanctions cause economic depression which lead to the citizens revolting because they can't obtain food or other necessities. And sever job loss. That's the reason for sanctions--to cause internal pressure. It can work. The state-run media can't put a spin on your child's empty belly.
  - gruez 5y ago
    >The state-run media can't put a spin on your child's empty belly. It can, however convince that your child's empty belly is caused by evil westerners, and the country needs to stand behind Dear Leader to fight against them.
  - kumarvvr 5y ago
    It can. It has and it will. When the childs belly is empty, it is easier to fall to propaganda that sanctions have deprived them of food.
    - aaomidi 5y ago
      > it is easier to fall to propaganda that sanctions have deprived them of food. It's not propaganda that the sanctions have deprived them of food. It's the real actuality.
- donw 5y ago
  Ultimately, this is going to backfire. Hard. China and Russia are already working on a SWIFT replacement. All they need to do is not try and use their banks as weapons -- which they don't need to for obvious reasons -- and they're immediately in-line to replace US-centric banking. "Debanking" in any form is a short-term play with long-term consequences. Were I running a government, I'd be wondering when the US is going to decide that we need a more "democratic" regime, and taking steps to enhance my country's fiscal autonomy as much as possible. Belt-and-road is going strong in both Africa and South America. Nobody really trusts China as a partner at this time, but the Party[1] in the US has done a great job of convincing the world that Washington is less reliable than Beijing. [1] The GOP and the Democrats function as a single-party state. Obama beat the war drums just as hard as Bush.
datavirtue 5y ago
Given these sanctions, I'm curious as to what impact sanctioning Putin would bring? I heard the press shouting about this several times today, but I don't know the impact of putting Putin on the list personally. Anyone know?
ada1981 5y ago
I kept having visions of this distopian future where Trump and Putin collude to take care of each other’s enemies. Putin launches a few nukes at highly democratic cities like LA and NYC; Trump retaliates and takes out whatever area of Russia has the highest population of opposition for Putin; Trump brokers a “deal” and is a hero, and both guys have less trouble moving forward.
- IiydAbITMvJkqKf 5y ago
  Least deranged partisan
frmerycfnder 5y ago

59 points by madars 5y ago

“I don’t know what’s gonna happen, but I wanna have my kicks before the whole shithouse goes up in flames” - Jim Morrison

tinalumfoil 5y ago

> Imposing Swift and Severe Economic Costs It's funny seeing "swift" in so many of these headlines, I think it's a subconscious reference to what people are really thinking about. Some context, one of the stiffest penalties on the table for Russia is remove them from the SWIFT [0]. As I understand things this is up to western Europe is still being decided. [0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SWIFT https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SWIFT

BrentOzar 5y ago
I don't think it's subconscious - I think it's an SEO technique. People are checking whether Russia has been removed from SWIFT yet or not, and if your title has that unusual word, bonus points for you.
- electroly 5y ago
  "Swift and severe" is taken from a quote from the Secretary of the Treasury. I mean, anything is possible, but I don't think the U.S. Treasury is employing SEO tactics in the headlines of their press releases.
rurban 5y ago
Germany vetoed it. So Russia has Germany at its balls, gas I assume. The official secret partyline is that they have massive debt in Russia. As if they cannot confiscate all the European assets, which would be roughly 1000x more. And without SWIFT the sanctions are useless. Now only mass strikes in the Ukraine can bring down the new soon to be selected leaders. Or giving every Ukrainian a gun. Which would eventually lead to an American-style society. Ukranians didn't opt for that.
- inter_netuser 5y ago
  Handing out guns doesn't quite work. Czechs have a 500 year old gun culture, and were quite well armed. It is a shall-issue country, and every gun permit is automatically a concealed carry permit. Today, close to 20-25% of the country own guns, probably more undeclared owners. Nevertheless, it got occupied by Germany and by Russia on two separate occasions, and at some point "elected" Hapsburgs. The days of "God made Men. Smith&Wesson made them equal" are long past, and we are now well into the age of neo-feudalism. Choose your suzerain carefully.
- chalcolithic 5y ago
  >And without SWIFT the sanctions are useless. Dunno, Soviet Union was just fine without SWIFT, but crumbled due to low oil prices. I'm surprised it's not being worked on right now.
weare138 5y ago
They know their Russian counterparts are going to see the announcement so I'm thinking it's a subtle dig and veiled threat to remind them it can get way worse.

megamike 5y ago

HA this is mostly blustering Russia has gas and oil which we (and ESPECIALLY Europe) want

mywittyname 5y ago
One of the benefits of propping up evil regimes in the middle east is that they can step in should one of their competitors attempt cause supply disruptions. So if you've ever wonder why we let SA get away with <terrible deed>. This right here is the reason. Politics is a dirty business.
celticninja 5y ago
A reliance on a fuel type we are already trying to get rid of, this will hasten that.
chemeng 5y ago
By “we” I assume you mean the USA. Which is a net exporter of oil and the largest oil producer as of 2021. It also receives almost no imports from Russia, and will increase exports to EU at current high prices. Russian oil restriction plays to US energy strengths but the US won’t move unilaterally without EU support due to their dependence.
- willcipriano 5y ago
  The US is no longer a net exporter: https://www.foxbusiness.com/energy/us-energy-independence-on-way-out https://www.foxbusiness.com/energy/us-energy-independence-on...
  - chemeng 5y ago
    Looks like they were predicting that in the beginning of 2021, though for 1H2021, US was still a net exporter. Don’t think they will be for 2022. https://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.php?id=49596 https://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.php?id=49596
- netsharc 5y ago

robert_foss 5y ago

I'm not sure this qualifies as expansive exactly.

rosndo 5y ago
Then you have no idea what you are talking about. I own a lot of property in Moscow, have lived there for years. These sanctions will devastate the Russian economy, they are truly hitting key pieces. Sberbank and VTB are enough to have severe impact on the average citizen.
- nine_zeros 5y ago
  Serious question - How do sanctions impact Russian bank working with Russian Rubles within the Russian economy?
  - rosndo 5y ago
    People in these countries don’t really trust their currencies, many have their salaries paid in USD or Euro. Most Russian consumer goods are foreign imports that were paid for in USD. Today all banks in Moscow have been full of people trying to get their money out in not-rubles, Friday might get even worse.
- kilroy123 5y ago
  Interesting. What is your take on the entire situation? Why do you think Putin is doing this?
  - rosndo 5y ago
    > What is your take on the entire situation? Terrifying, I’ve been working around the clock to evacuate my friends and their families from Ukraine. Even now many are very reluctant to leave, trying to convince themselves that the war will end as fast as it started. At least the western borders are mostly open now, I have multiple friends with kids who don’t have passports. In Russia? Fuck knows, nobody I know well would be there this time of the year. Russian friends in London and Europe have little faith in Putin being able to keep this up, even if most of these people were in favour of the annexation of Crimea. My telegram is getting spammed with lots of pictures of increasingly large protests in big cities, hopefully they will continue growing. > Why do you think Putin is doing this? Nobody knows. My wife is the daughter of a Russian oligarch likely to be sanctioned soon, nobody in our circles has any idea why this is happening. Nobody believed there would be a war until the moment it started, most have purchased other passports and many are planning to get rid of their russian citizenships. I emptied my Kiev apartment wednesday and had everything transferred to Romania, most of my friends were laughing about me being paranoid. They’re not laughing anymore.

webwielder2 5y ago

Have economic sanctions ever succeeded in altering the behavior of authoritarians? It pretty much always just ends up impoverishing the normal people of a country, which authoritarians do not care about.

datavirtue 5y ago
The sanctions cause economic depression which lead to the citizens revolting because they can't obtain food or other necessities. And sever job loss. That's the reason for sanctions--to cause internal pressure. It can work. The state-run media can't put a spin on your child's empty belly.
- gruez 5y ago
  >The state-run media can't put a spin on your child's empty belly. It can, however convince that your child's empty belly is caused by evil westerners, and the country needs to stand behind Dear Leader to fight against them.
- kumarvvr 5y ago
  It can. It has and it will. When the childs belly is empty, it is easier to fall to propaganda that sanctions have deprived them of food.
  - aaomidi 5y ago
    > it is easier to fall to propaganda that sanctions have deprived them of food. It's not propaganda that the sanctions have deprived them of food. It's the real actuality.
donw 5y ago
Ultimately, this is going to backfire. Hard. China and Russia are already working on a SWIFT replacement. All they need to do is not try and use their banks as weapons -- which they don't need to for obvious reasons -- and they're immediately in-line to replace US-centric banking. "Debanking" in any form is a short-term play with long-term consequences. Were I running a government, I'd be wondering when the US is going to decide that we need a more "democratic" regime, and taking steps to enhance my country's fiscal autonomy as much as possible. Belt-and-road is going strong in both Africa and South America. Nobody really trusts China as a partner at this time, but the Party[1] in the US has done a great job of convincing the world that Washington is less reliable than Beijing. [1] The GOP and the Democrats function as a single-party state. Obama beat the war drums just as hard as Bush.

datavirtue 5y ago

Given these sanctions, I'm curious as to what impact sanctioning Putin would bring? I heard the press shouting about this several times today, but I don't know the impact of putting Putin on the list personally. Anyone know?

ada1981 5y ago

I kept having visions of this distopian future where Trump and Putin collude to take care of each other’s enemies. Putin launches a few nukes at highly democratic cities like LA and NYC; Trump retaliates and takes out whatever area of Russia has the highest population of opposition for Putin; Trump brokers a “deal” and is a hero, and both guys have less trouble moving forward.

IiydAbITMvJkqKf 5y ago
Least deranged partisan

frmerycfnder 5y ago