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Occupy Wall Street was a protest and an "occupation". CHAZ was literally people "occupying" a part of Seattle. Both of those protests were a good thing, but the

Occupy Wall Street was a protest and an "occupation". CHAZ was literally people "occupying" a part of Seattle. Both of those protests were a good thing, but they were still protests. You don't get to decide what is and what isn't a protest just because you disagree with the message or the methods and the government's rhetoric in the past few weeks (calling it terrorism, occupation, foreign backed agitation) is very dangerous and should not be encouraged. It's literally straight out of a third world country's dictator textbook on how to discredit any opposition, especially the cold War Era style insanity around "foreign backing!!" by... Americans. I guess at least they didn't blame the Russians this time

tekstar 5y ago
I think it's necessary to draw the distinction between this occupation, and other protests, because other protests do not greatly impact the ongoing lives of random unrelated citizens in the city who just happen to live in the area for weeks on end. So sure, we can call both protests, but the important thing is that this was also a foreign-funded occupation. So there is no value in comparing this with the protests for both left- and right- wing causes that Ottawa sees on a weekly basis. Protests that get a permit, last an afternoon, and then go home and lets people live their lives without being harassed.
- totony 5y ago
  >because other protests do not greatly impact the ongoing lives of random unrelated citizens in the city who just happen to live in the area for weeks on end. From my experience this is not true. Protests mostly involve discomfort to normal people.Be it BLM, occupy wall street, students manifestations, railroads blocking, etc Maybe the scales of some are different, but calling this a "foreign-founded occupation" is disingenuous.
  - tekstar 5y ago
    > Maybe the scales of some are different, but calling this a "foreign-founded occupation" is disingenuous. Weird since it was definitely foreign-funded and definitely an occupation, but okay
  - ryandrake 5y ago
    I think the trucker protest was unique (and different from OWS, BLM) due to it deliberately targeting ordinary, unrelated citizens instead of the government. It would have been more like other protests if they blockaded and blew their horns at Trudeau's front lawn or Parliament or Big Business or something, but instead the protesters specifically went after the wellbeing of ordinary Canadians. All protests "involve discomfort" to normal people, but this one uniquely targeted them. EDIT: This is not letting individual BLM protestors (who did deliberately target private businesses) off the hook, but the movement itself did not specifically call for belligerence against unrelated citizens.
  - seemack 5y ago
    I just want to address the comment about most protests involving discomfort to normal people. I live and work in the downtown core of Ottawa. I'm sure you will not be surprised to hear that the city is a focal point for protests and has had many of them, large and small, over the years. I completely agree that protests often include some measure of discomfort for random, unrelated citizens. However, I can tell you that there has never been a protest even remotely close to the number of torments this protest inflicted upon the residents of the city. I personally know numerous people who were harassed verbally and physically while walking in the streets simply for wearing a mask. A downtown mall was forced to close for multiple weeks due to protesters refusing to follow masking rules. Think of the retail staff who lost out on multiple weeks of pay. There was an attempt to set fire to a residential building with the main lobby door being taped shut. Fireworks were being set off on city streets downtown. Extremely loud horns were being sounded throughout all hours of the day and night, including train and boat horns that could be heard throughout the downtown core. People were prevented from buying groceries within a reasonable distance due to the grocery store having to close; the workers having been harassed while working by protesters. Numerous small retail shops in the downtown were forced to close their doors due to protester harassment and reduced traffic as people largely felt unsafe in the downtown core. There was an instance of protesters harassing a homeless shelter into providing them food. This was not discomfort. This was a complete prevention of the ability to feel safe in their homes and neighbourhood for a large swath of Ottawa residents who had nothing to do with the mandates. Many people were materially affected by this and had no way of escaping beyond leaving the city.
    - raxxorrax 5y ago
      They protested against vaccination mandates and the store closure was due to government policy. To be honest, this sound very peaceful for a protest all in all. Feeling unsafe is often invoked lately to restrict the rights of others. I don't believe this is sufficient in a larger context.
      - seemack 5y ago
        Please show me your source for saying that the mall was closed due to government policy.
deleted 5y ago
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joe_the_user 5y ago
Occupy Wall Street was a protest and an "occupation". CHAZ was literally people "occupying" a part of Seattle. Both of those protests were a good thing, but they were still protests. Occupy Wall Street and the Occupy Movement basically just took over city parks and fed people. Occupy was basically a good. CHAZ is a kind of rolling disaster that involved over-anxious security killing a guy who'd stolen someone's car. As a leftist who knows people who were involved with it, I would say CHAZ was a very bad thing. Of course, a democratic society has to decide what sorts of disruptions are acceptable and which have to be stopped. Of course such a society is going to do that. Otherwise, the first extremist cult to field enough armed people to seize the state will win. ...just because you disagree with the message or the METHODS(emphasis added)... If the trucker convoy was basically thugs who were breaking the law because they thought they could and because they thought doing this would force the rest of the nation to bow to their demands, I don't think anyone has an obligation to have the least respect for their efforts.
- raxxorrax 5y ago
  The truckers seems vastly more peaceful than the people involved in CHAZ, but government should still not be able to freeze their accounts. That is just insane.
- xdennis 5y ago
  CHAZ was literally an armed insurrection. They didn't "occupy", they tried to secede before changing their minds and relabeling to CHOP.
sofixa 5y ago
You're aware that Canada and the USA are different countries, right?
- mardifoufs 5y ago
  Yes, what's your point? That gotcha is really annoying, there's no reason to pretend canada and the USA aren't extremely interlinked. Canadians have never been shy of comparing canada to the USA whenever it suits us, so it's funny to see how we are now pretending canada is completely unique and not comparable. Also, I'm sure the CBC never talked about whats happening in the US but if they did they surely described CHAZ as terroristic occupation, not protests? Like do you think some canadians condemned those like they are condemning the current protests? My point was about public opinion and hyperbolic media narratives, because it's abundantly clear that the reaction to this protest is hypocritical at best and unhinged at worse. Hence why I brought up CHAZ and OCCUPY (two movements that I fully supported )

Occupy Wall Street was a protest and an "occupation". CHAZ was literally people "occupying" a part of Seattle. Both of those protests were a good thing, but they were still protests. You don't get to decide what is and what isn't a protest just because you disagree with the message or the methods and the government's rhetoric in the past few weeks (calling it terrorism, occupation, foreign backed agitation) is very dangerous and should not be encouraged. It's literally straight out of a third world country's dictator textbook on how to discredit any opposition, especially the cold War Era style insanity around "foreign backing!!" by... Americans. I guess at least they didn't blame the Russians this time

tekstar 5y ago

I think it's necessary to draw the distinction between this occupation, and other protests, because other protests do not greatly impact the ongoing lives of random unrelated citizens in the city who just happen to live in the area for weeks on end. So sure, we can call both protests, but the important thing is that this was also a foreign-funded occupation. So there is no value in comparing this with the protests for both left- and right- wing causes that Ottawa sees on a weekly basis. Protests that get a permit, last an afternoon, and then go home and lets people live their lives without being harassed.

totony 5y ago
>because other protests do not greatly impact the ongoing lives of random unrelated citizens in the city who just happen to live in the area for weeks on end. From my experience this is not true. Protests mostly involve discomfort to normal people.Be it BLM, occupy wall street, students manifestations, railroads blocking, etc Maybe the scales of some are different, but calling this a "foreign-founded occupation" is disingenuous.
- tekstar 5y ago
  > Maybe the scales of some are different, but calling this a "foreign-founded occupation" is disingenuous. Weird since it was definitely foreign-funded and definitely an occupation, but okay
- ryandrake 5y ago
  I think the trucker protest was unique (and different from OWS, BLM) due to it deliberately targeting ordinary, unrelated citizens instead of the government. It would have been more like other protests if they blockaded and blew their horns at Trudeau's front lawn or Parliament or Big Business or something, but instead the protesters specifically went after the wellbeing of ordinary Canadians. All protests "involve discomfort" to normal people, but this one uniquely targeted them. EDIT: This is not letting individual BLM protestors (who did deliberately target private businesses) off the hook, but the movement itself did not specifically call for belligerence against unrelated citizens.
- seemack 5y ago
  I just want to address the comment about most protests involving discomfort to normal people. I live and work in the downtown core of Ottawa. I'm sure you will not be surprised to hear that the city is a focal point for protests and has had many of them, large and small, over the years. I completely agree that protests often include some measure of discomfort for random, unrelated citizens. However, I can tell you that there has never been a protest even remotely close to the number of torments this protest inflicted upon the residents of the city. I personally know numerous people who were harassed verbally and physically while walking in the streets simply for wearing a mask. A downtown mall was forced to close for multiple weeks due to protesters refusing to follow masking rules. Think of the retail staff who lost out on multiple weeks of pay. There was an attempt to set fire to a residential building with the main lobby door being taped shut. Fireworks were being set off on city streets downtown. Extremely loud horns were being sounded throughout all hours of the day and night, including train and boat horns that could be heard throughout the downtown core. People were prevented from buying groceries within a reasonable distance due to the grocery store having to close; the workers having been harassed while working by protesters. Numerous small retail shops in the downtown were forced to close their doors due to protester harassment and reduced traffic as people largely felt unsafe in the downtown core. There was an instance of protesters harassing a homeless shelter into providing them food. This was not discomfort. This was a complete prevention of the ability to feel safe in their homes and neighbourhood for a large swath of Ottawa residents who had nothing to do with the mandates. Many people were materially affected by this and had no way of escaping beyond leaving the city.
  - raxxorrax 5y ago
    They protested against vaccination mandates and the store closure was due to government policy. To be honest, this sound very peaceful for a protest all in all. Feeling unsafe is often invoked lately to restrict the rights of others. I don't believe this is sufficient in a larger context.
    - seemack 5y ago
      Please show me your source for saying that the mall was closed due to government policy.

deleted 5y ago

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joe_the_user 5y ago

Occupy Wall Street was a protest and an "occupation". CHAZ was literally people "occupying" a part of Seattle. Both of those protests were a good thing, but they were still protests. Occupy Wall Street and the Occupy Movement basically just took over city parks and fed people. Occupy was basically a good. CHAZ is a kind of rolling disaster that involved over-anxious security killing a guy who'd stolen someone's car. As a leftist who knows people who were involved with it, I would say CHAZ was a very bad thing. Of course, a democratic society has to decide what sorts of disruptions are acceptable and which have to be stopped. Of course such a society is going to do that. Otherwise, the first extremist cult to field enough armed people to seize the state will win. ...just because you disagree with the message or the METHODS(emphasis added)... If the trucker convoy was basically thugs who were breaking the law because they thought they could and because they thought doing this would force the rest of the nation to bow to their demands, I don't think anyone has an obligation to have the least respect for their efforts.

raxxorrax 5y ago
The truckers seems vastly more peaceful than the people involved in CHAZ, but government should still not be able to freeze their accounts. That is just insane.
xdennis 5y ago
CHAZ was literally an armed insurrection. They didn't "occupy", they tried to secede before changing their minds and relabeling to CHOP.

sofixa 5y ago

You're aware that Canada and the USA are different countries, right?

mardifoufs 5y ago
Yes, what's your point? That gotcha is really annoying, there's no reason to pretend canada and the USA aren't extremely interlinked. Canadians have never been shy of comparing canada to the USA whenever it suits us, so it's funny to see how we are now pretending canada is completely unique and not comparable. Also, I'm sure the CBC never talked about whats happening in the US but if they did they surely described CHAZ as terroristic occupation, not protests? Like do you think some canadians condemned those like they are condemning the current protests? My point was about public opinion and hyperbolic media narratives, because it's abundantly clear that the reaction to this protest is hypocritical at best and unhinged at worse. Hence why I brought up CHAZ and OCCUPY (two movements that I fully supported )