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Putin orders Russian peacekeepers to eastern Ukraine's two breakaway regions
- InsomniacL 5y agoFor me, I've watched Russian Foreign office officials on UK news programs adamantly deny any possibility of Russian troops entering Ukraine and even accuse western governments of orchestrating the notion to discredit the Russian Government... I can certainly see who has no credibility now..
- tim333 5y agoThe Russian disinformation is an interesting thing to behold. A lot of blatantly claiming black is white. And if you point this out the attitude is more - how can you be so naive as to worry about that - than embarrassment. They have a different sort of credibility in that they do send in the troops and kill/poison/imprison people maybe more than the west. It seems more like dealing with a mafia protection racket - they may say they are nice people who just want to protect your business but their credibility comes from violence rather than being honest in what they say.
- thejackgoode 5y ago- father, where does Russia end? - there, where they start hitting you, my son
- voidsnax 5y agoThat the Russian government is characterizing these personnel as “peacekeepers” would be a fair statement, but to regurgitate that characterization in reporting on the matter seems rather less credible.
- EugeneOZ 5y agoseparatists are “fair” peacekeepers?
- barry-cotter 5y agoParroting obvious government horseshit with a straight face is part of the job of news organizations. They don’t call the US/UN puppet government in Somalia or Libya puppets either. They call them UN approved transitional governments.
- _djo_ 5y agoIf a transitional government is UN-approved, meaning it even survived UNSC rounds without any of the five veto powers objecting, then it’s ridiculous to call it a ‘puppet’ government. The US does not control the UN.
- hackerbeat 5y agoOf course they do. Where was the UN when Iraq was attacked?
- _djo_ 5y agoThe same place it’ll be now: Unable to substantively act because by design the five veto powers effectively neutered the ability of the UN to act against them. The US is just one of the five, the UK, France, Russia, and China are the others. Why do you think no UN action was taken against Russia for annexing Crimea and invading parts of Ukraine in 2014? Or against China for its treatment of the Uyghurs? None of this means the US ‘controls’ the UN though, any more than the other four veto powers do.
- hackerbeat 5y agoIt’s all just show. Forget the rules. America runs the world, does whatever it wants and ignores the UN as it pleases. When other countries do it, they get sanctioned or bombed. And Russia and China are out to change that unipolar world, cause America is out of control. And has been for a long time already. See also: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Security_Council_and_the_Iraq_War https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Security_Coun... On September 16, 2004 Secretary-General of the United Nations Kofi Annan, speaking on the invasion, said, "I have indicated it was not in conformity with the UN Charter. From our point of view, from the charter point of view, it was illegal."
- Youden 5y agoEdit: Removed everything else because I can't delete. I should know better than to comment on a political thread on HN.
- bruceb 5y agoIt might be less biased than some, but it does have bias.
- akvadrako 5y agoIf only that were true. But if you read Reuters enough you see they have a bent. Journalists always have a choice on at least which quotes and aspects to include Though I admit they are rather good at pretending to be professional, except their ads.
- chakhs 5y agoYeah they should've called them democracy promoters
- thomond 5y agoThe return of the "little green men"?
- edrxty 5y agoIn all seriousness, it worked last time. What's stopping him from trying again?
- choeger 5y agoIt didn't work last time. Last time everyone knew the were Russian soldiers or mercenaries. Ukraine didn't oppose them because a) they held a key road (a bottleneck, really) into Crimea and b) significant parts of the Ukrainian military on the peninsula defected to the Russian side. This time, there's no bottleneck and there will probably be no or only few defectors. This time, it's going to be a shooting war, sadly.
- chitowneats 5y agoIt worked in the sense that Russia secured Crimea without serious consequences. When an authoritarian lies with impunity, that is a triumph for the regime, not a defeat.
- edrxty 5y agoThat sounds a lot like it worked last time.... Not saying it'll work this time, just pointing out the pikachu factor is high here
- aaaaaaaaata 5y ago> pikachu factor Oh, please explain
- edrxty 5y agohttps://knowyourmeme.com/memes/surprised-pikachu https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/surprised-pikachu Common internet meme about being surprised when the totally predictable happens.
- mullingitover 5y agoAt least now Russia is dispensing with the fiction that there aren't Russian troops in these regions that Russia has been annexing for the past seven years.
- thriftwy 5y agoThat's because the Novorossia republics are now recognized as sovereign states by Russia.
- mullingitover 5y ago> now recognized as sovereign states. By one country: the one invading Ukraine and annexing them.
- Grustaf 5y agoIt does say "recognized as sovereign states by Russia"
- danuker 5y agoI guess you have to start somewhere. No UN members recognize Liberland, and one is greater than zero.
- hindsightbias 5y agoZero to One
- sudosysgen 5y agoProbably Syria soon enough, too.
- me_me_me 5y agoI am not punching you, I am just killing an invisible deadly spider sitting on your face... multiple times, so be grateful.
- baal80spam 5y agoI despise this timeline.
- codevark 5y ago
- encryptluks2 5y agoWhat is the endgame here for Putin? It seems like for the most part that no one is going to do anything to stop him.
- Y-bar 5y agoHe said it himself in his speech: He does not consider Ukraine (the whole country) a separate nation, but rather a lost piece of Russia which he intends to "reunite" into his nation.
- qqtt 5y agoRussia wants to permanently block Ukraine's entry into NATO. By holding on to disputed territories indefinitely, they can make that happen. See also: Russia support of Georgia's breakaway territories after Georgia was inching closer to NATO membership. This is the exact same thing with the exact same playbook.
- csee 5y agoI don't get how capturing these two territories can prevent Ukraine from getting NATO membership. Won't this make them want it even more?
- qqtt 5y agoIt would certainly increase pressure on the rest of the country (and other areas in Europe) to join NATO, but the immediate effect is an abandonment of NATO aspirations due to the territory conflict. Georgia was essentially on the cusp of receiving an invitation to join NATO when Russia invaded and now holds what amounts to a 'veto' card to hold off their membership. https://www.atlanticcouncil.org/content-series/nato20-2020/end-the-russian-veto-on-georgian-accession/ https://www.atlanticcouncil.org/content-series/nato20-2020/e... There are still voices calling for Georgia to maneuver into NATO, but in 2022 it seems much more unrealistic compared to before the 2008 invasion.
- lamp987 5y agono one is insane enough to accept a half occupied country into a defense pact. that would automatically mean nato has to either declare war on russia or break the pact.
- hawk_ 5y agoWhat's disappointing is the response of european leaders so far. They have prepared a sanctions package against Russia which won't include anything in the energy sector! If not energy then what, Matryoshka dolls? and we are supposed to take them seriously :-(
- silvercove 5y ago
- nikanj 5y agoObviously not, as very successful anti-nuclear campaigning means all of EU is dependant on russian fossil fuels
- KennyBlanken 5y agoNuclear power plants have been shutting down because the companies that run them can make power more cheaply with wind and solar, not because of "anti-nuclear campaigning." Wind is the cheapest way to make power, with solar being a close second.
- Swenrekcah 5y agoThere has definitely been extensive anti nuclear campaigning. Wind and solar are great but they’re not dependable.
- Aperocky 5y ago> Nuclear power plants have been shutting down because the companies Except that is demonstrably false: https://www.cleanenergywire.org/factsheets/history-behind-germanys-nuclear-phase-out https://www.cleanenergywire.org/factsheets/history-behind-ge...
- xienze 5y agoBut what happens if say, the wind doesn’t blow as much as expected [0]? Renewables are great but since you can’t easily bank massive amounts of power for later, you need some sort of reliable, consistent energy source that continues working when the sun isn’t shining or the wind isn’t blowing. Like gas or nuclear. But with nuclear plants falling out of fashion, guess what that leaves you with. Renewables are great but you can’t just ignore their downsides. 0: https://fortune.com/2021/09/16/the-u-k-went-all-in-on-wind-power-never-imaging-it-would-one-day-stop-blowing/amp/ https://fortune.com/2021/09/16/the-u-k-went-all-in-on-wind-p...
- mrtksn 5y agoOkay, so what happens if the world gets into pre 1990's state? Will the internet function as normal? Can US be a refuge for banned Russian content and Russia be a refuge for banned Western content? For Android it's a bit straightforward but Apparently Apple commands ~30% of the Russian smartphone market[0], what happens to Russian iPhone users if American companies are prohibited from doing business in Russia? [0] : https://www.statista.com/statistics/262174/market-share-held-by-mobile-operating-systems-in-russia/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/262174/market-share-held...
- akmarinov 5y agoWill Russia even be able to get chips needed for pretty much everything?
- mrtksn 5y agoYeah, why not? Do you expect China, Korea and Taiwan to join NATO anytime soon? Also, during the Soviet times they used to have flourishing copycat IC industry.
- raxxorrax 5y agoNobody gets any chips currently anyway. It already spawned a recycling industry where cheap .10$ chips get removed from boards to be reused. That wasn't economically viable before...
- encryptluks2 5y agoWhat happens to Microsoft if American companies are prohibited from doing business in Russia? Maybe Russia will end up with their own mobile and desktop OS?
- trasz 5y agoThis would present an interesting problem to Open Source. Major projects would probably get forked, but the patches would probably keep flowing (being merged) between them somehow?
- qq66 5y agoLOL at "peacekeepers." He is essentially saying that this is Russia now, so that he's only deploying internal security personnel.
- loceng 5y ago
- billsmithwicks 5y agoDing ding, round 1.
- hprotagonist 5y agoThe habit-forming pain, Mismanagement and grief: We must suffer them all again.
- loceng 5y ago
- trasz 5y agoSo, what do the citizens say about it? People who actually live there, are there any reliable polls regarding their preferences as to which country they prefer? Edit: No idea about Lugansk, but for Donetsk Wikipedia quotes some polls from a couple of years ago, and they seem to noticeably favor Ukraine (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donetsk_People%27s_Republic#Regional_public_opinion_on_separatism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donetsk_People%27s_Republic#Re...).
- stfods 5y agoBeing pro-Ukrainian is super dangerous in separatist-controlled regions. Some people has died or has been tortured because of this. I think that most of the people from this region that openly supported Ukraine are now either in Ukraine or jailed/dead.
- EugeneOZ 5y agoOnly polls with the smoking barrels. Lol, it's so ridiculous how actually far western people are from the wild reality of Russia. So naive.
- myth_drannon 5y agoYou can see live streams from the cities... They have a lot of fireworks going on right now.
- risyachka 5y ago
- skolos 5y agoI bet the polls will show overwhelming support - after 8 years of wall to wall Russian propaganda and extermination of opposition most think Putin is their savior from Fascist Ukrainians. (Source: I have relatives who still live there)
- anticristi 5y agoimport Russia from Ukraine import * regions = [ Crimea, Donetsk, Luhansk ] while Russia.gas_flows(): region = regions.pop() russia.annex(region)
- TrapLord_Rhodo 5y agoMight be a premature optimization at this time, but you might as well add all former soviet + former yugoslavia to that list.
- keewee7 5y agoAs an EU citizen I want an immediate ban on fossil fuel imports from Russia.
- whitepaint 5y agoAs an EU citizen - I am very glad that you hold no power of making those kind of decisions.
- sam_lowry_ 5y agoAs an EU citizen, I can reduce my natural gaz and electric consumption, install solar panels and live through minor inconveniences to make the world a safer place without Putin.
- aaaaaaaaata 5y ago
- mardifoufs 5y agoIt's also "gaz" in french ;)
- sam_lowry_ 5y agoSoviet, not Russian. French speaker, so mardifoufs got it right as well ;-)
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- rad_gruchalski 5y agoDo it, do more, talk less.
- anticristi 5y agoGreat idea! Too bad we have this country called Germany that depends on it.
- stfods 5y agoI've listened to the discussion in Russia's Federation Safety Council where Putin, heads of government, parliament, security services, army has been discussing recognition of Donetsk & Luhansk There's one important point that has been explicitly mentioned (if I'm not mistaken, by Medvedev) "We got sanctions after operation in Georgia in 2008, but some time has passed and they started talking to us and working with us again" Their expectation: an offence against a neighbouring country generates not more than some sanctions that would be removed soon. It has worked like this in 2008. Why wouldn't it work now?
- axiosgunnar 5y agolink?
- stfods 5y agoI've listened to this live stream: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h7jQLFhfJr8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h7jQLFhfJr8 01:24:50
- junon 5y agoDisappointed in Europe at the moment. Putin knew sanctions would be endlessly pushed off as "still trying to achieve diplomacy". He called the bluff. Putin made it 100% clear he does not want Diplomacy. He wants a victory by conquest. He wants war. He doesn't care how far he has to take things to get it. Anyone who listened to his bizarre rant on Ukrainian "history" can see this. What the hell is NATO waiting for? "Okay, but if you kill another thousand civilians, we're REALLY going to start thinking about those sanctions!" seems like the defacto mode of thinking right now. 2022 shaping up to be a disaster.
- fennecfoxy 5y agoWith the advent of nuclear weapons, sanctions are all anyone can do anymore. Nuclear weapons mean the bad guys automatically win. Everyone is absolutely terrified that any modern conflict would start with "let's keep this clean boys, no nukes" and end in "we can't lose the war so let's use our WoMD". Think right now, if Russia nuked Ukraine, what could the rest of the world do? Nothing. :/
- icare_1er 5y agoNATO has settled military bases in all of Eastern Europe, despite promises from the early 90s that no country from the USSR-block would join NATO. By gradually pushing its pawns all around Russia, NATO (meaning the US) is as much responsible in that crap as Putin is. How many Russian bases in the Carribean, in Canada, and in the Pacific ?
- junon 5y agoNATO is a defensive treaty pact. Putin alone could end this. Russia is not being actively threatened. How much did Russia pay you to spread this garbage take?
- icare_1er 5y agoYes, setting army bases all around a country is defensive when it's the US, but it's an aggression if it is any other country. o)
- entropyneur 5y agoUnless I'm missing something, this seems to match the definition of invasion given by Biden the other week and should trigger the hyped up draconian sanctions.
- newrotik 5y agoA bit off putting how nonchalantly people are asking for economic sanctions on a population of 144 million people that are already quite poor. Not defending Russia here - but let's be more mindful of the fact that there are other human beings at the other end of the stick.
- skolos 5y agoInteresting point. How would you resolve this chalantly? 144 million people who probably will struggle to purchase their next iPhone vs 44 million people many of whom might die, loose all property and homes. What is a good way to resolve this in your opinion?
- nickpp 5y agoSanctions are mostly targeted at Putin's companies and camarilla.
- anm89 5y agoLove the use of "peacekeepers" here. It seems so aggressively bullshit here but on the other hand myself and most people wouldn't blink if the US did the same thing.
- favorited 5y agoNations love pretending these kinds of things. It's like how, when the US sent 500 Special Forces troops to South Vietnam in 1961, we were only sending "military advisors!" Somehow, the number of "advisors" was 11,000 a year later. That's a lot of advice.
- datadata 5y agoWe called one of our ICBMs a peacekeeper: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGM-118_Peacekeeper https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGM-118_Peacekeeper
- darkhorn 5y agoI think all of this started when Ukraine started to use Baykar Bayraktar TB2.
- mikaeluman 5y agoThese regions have unilaterally declared their independence since the 2014 revolution/coup. In that sense the only thing that is new is the official Russian recognition. It's a messy situation. According to the census on wiki only 1/3 are of Russian ethnic background. Does that mean only 1/3 supported the breakaway from Ukraine? You can't help but to make comparisons to the Sudeten Germans and the like. "Peacekeeping missions".
- risyachka 5y agoThose regions didn't declare anything in 2014. Just like Crimea. They were taken. Literally the whole world knows that.
- babelfish 5y agoSource?
- trhway 5y agohistory tends to repeat itself. When Moldavian nationalists tried in 1990-1992 to clean the west bank of Dnestr (future Transnistria ) from Russians and Ukrainians, the Russian and Ukrainian volunteers were fighting there together. The Ukrainian forces were mostly from Ukrainian nationalist organizations OUN-UPA. These organizations were core to the Ukrainian volunteer battalions which tried to pacify the Donbass in 2014, and naturally a lot of Russian volunteers opposed them (some people who fought each other in 2014 were even fighting together back in 1992).
- sam_lowry_ 5y agopeacekeepers? troops!
- dandanua 5y agoA little bit of context of Putin's rule: 1999 - Chechen war started. 2008 - Abkhazia and Ossetia in Georgia. 2014 - Crimea and eastern Ukraine. 2022 - Eastern Ukraine finalization. Also add supporting corrupt and destructive politicians in US and EU. Also add murders of his opponents around the world. And I'm not even talking about the destruction of civilized human laws and relationships in his home country.
- albertnewton 5y ago
- ghostwriter 5y ago> Also add supporting corrupt and destructive politicians in US and EU. Have the western leaders begun properly investigating the Bidens and their ties to Ukraine's Burisma? What about their extended family members dealing with the CCP?
- greatgib 5y agoWe should invade Belarus in retribution for Russian acts...
- risyachka 5y agoI hope there is more than mentioned ban on investments in those territories, because no one has been investing there anyway for decades.
- danuker 5y agoBelieve it or not, there were McDonalds branches in Crimea. https://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/ukraine-crisis/mcdonalds-closes-crimea-branches-due-reasons-beyond-our-control-n71561 https://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/ukraine-crisis/mcdonalds-c...
- csomar 5y agoMcDonals are franchises. They could be local capital paying a fee to the Americans. So kinda of a reverse capital investment.
- LargoLasskhyfv 5y agoNot all of them, at least not everywhere. There are so called 'Company Stores' directly operated from the 'Golden M', or its international subsidiaries, which are not franchised.
- verdverm 5y agoThis was posted recently on HN, but I'll repost it here. My main take away is that these two regions are really more Russian and want to be a part of Russia. They were given to Ukraine as part of an old agreement internal to the USSR https://www.gregpalast.com/7-facts-about-ukraine/ https://www.gregpalast.com/7-facts-about-ukraine/
- trasz 5y agoNo idea about Lugansk, but in Donetsk they certainly don't: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donetsk_People%27s_Republic#Regional_public_opinion_on_separatism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donetsk_People%27s_Republic#Re....
- verdverm 5y agoI don't really trust Wikipedia much. It has been manipulated for a long time and often chooses only sources for the narrative of the page author. Polls at this point have demonstrated themselves as unreliable and inaccurate. The link was to offer a different perspective than the one prevailing this topic. I don't think it's so simple as Russia bad. There are a lot of information wars going on, not mention the posturing for constituents with shallow talking points.
- trasz 5y agoIt's never as simple as "<whoever> bad". But in the end it's (or perhaps should be) down to numbers: Wikipedia cites several sources which show that whatever citizen's preference between Ukraine or Russia might be, there was definitely no majority support for separation - not before and not after. Do you know sources that show opposite results?
- artem247 5y agoWell, first of all, these two regions (Donetsk, Luhansk) were part of Ukraine since at least 1922, when the borders of republics of Soviet Union were drawn. They were 'part of Russia', only when whole Ukraine was part of Russia. And no, Crimean Tatars are not indigenous people of East of Ukraine, Crimea and Donbass are very different regions with different history. You base your opinion from an article by guy who knows some Russian nationalists, who do not believe in Ukraine sovereignty. Somehow you extrapolate their opinion on the whole region. There are plenty of people, more than 1 million, who left separatist controlled regions for 'mainland' Ukraine (that also meant that they lost their property, most of people in Ukraine own their apartment/house, so that is a big deal). There are plenty of people from Donbass region who volunteered into Ukrainian army to fight separatists. Ukraine is a big country, with long, varied history, and multi-ethnic regions. That doesn't mean that invading this country is justified. There is Hungarian community in the west of Ukraine, would it be ok for Hungary to invade?
- guilhas 5y agoQuite interesting chess, Russia playing the USA/UK game. Curious to how it works, just recently USA wanted to split Syria but it didn't quite work out Still I don't like countries getting split, seems quite unacceptable unless most of the whole population agrees NATO should just agree to back-off, leave Ukraine neutral as a peace buffer. What interest for security there is for NATO to still keep expanding? That is what started the tensions in the first place
- Caligatio 5y agoWhose "interest of security" are you referring to? If it's the security of Eastern European countries like Georgia and Ukraine, it's self-evident that counties would want to join NATO. If it's existing NATO members, there may be a general interest in expanding to countries who are under threat by the country that caused NATO to be formed in the first place. Blaming this situation on NATO is like shooting someone with a gun and then blaming them because they bought a bullet proof vest because they were concerned that you would shoot them with a gun.
- guilhas 5y agoThe Georgia invasion happened for the same reason. NATO invited Ukraine and Georgia in 2008, they were never under threat before. NATO should just leave countries on Russian border as neutral https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_Bucharest_summit https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_Bucharest_summit https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russo-Georgian_War https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russo-Georgian_War But I am sure after invading the entire Middle East NATO members are running out of countries to feel threatened in
- csee 5y agoI had hoped it was chess because if so then we aren't dealing with an unhinged maniac with his hands on a thousand nukes. But this action seems so dislocated from what's in Russia's interests that my hopes are looking dashed. Putin can invade Ukraine and turn Russia into North Korea. Or he can settle for the two regions and further push Ukraine into the hands of NATO. Either way, Russia has lost. These are looking like the actions of an ideologue, which is a really not good sign.
- rlkjlkjer 5y ago
- jmyeet 5y agoPutin is in the wrong here but there are no good guys. US rhetoric on this has predicted a full-scale invasion that hasn't come to fruition multiple times and the media just laps it up. It's reminiscent of the WMD justification for invading Iraq. It's straight up Manufacturing Consent [1]. However, Putin has a point: extending NATO membership to Ukraine is an overtly hostile act by the US and NATO member states. Putin no more wants NATO bases in the Ukraine than the US would want Chinese or Russian military bases in Canada or Mexico. But Russia is not and never was going to launch a full-scale invasion of Ukraine. It would destroy Russia. Trying to do this in Afghanistan, a substantially smaller and less developed country, played a significant factor in the collapse of the Soviet Union. Russia wants a buffer between it and NATO and access to the Black Sea. That's it. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manufacturing_Consent https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manufacturing_Consent
- favorited 5y ago> US rhetoric on this has predicted a full-scale invasion that hasn't come to fruition multiple times and the media just laps it up. The invasion is happening right now. The "peacekeepers" are Russian troops invading Ukraine, after Putin claimed, "Ukraine has never had its own authentic statehood."
- jmyeet 5y agoI don't think you know what a full scale invasion is. They've crossed the border into Eastern Ukraine that have been in conflict for years between Ukrainian nationals and Russian separatists. Like I said, not good. But full-scale invasion? Not even close. Not a single shot has been fired that we know about. Or have I missed the missile strikes? Artillery bombardments of Ukrainian forces? Aerial bombardment? Infantry engagements? Yet US rhetoric on this was basically "Putin is going to glass Kiev and murder everybody". When is that happening exactly?
- mhoad 5y agoYou understand this thing is literally hours old right? Do you have any experience with anything military related or some reason why you are trying to speak with any level of confidence on this?
- mhoad 5y agoWhat an absolute failure of a headline.
- nickpp 5y agoThe invasion has begun. And all countries sitting and watching are accomplice.
- foogazi 5y agoet tu nickpp
- olliej 5y ago“Peacekeepers” An invading force, because the failure to respond appropriately to their earlier invasion embolden them to invade again. This is exactly what happened in WW2.
- lr1970 5y ago> "Peacekeepers" Orwellian language already won: "war is peace"
- villmann 5y agoGermany should never have shut down many of its nuclear plants to become reliant on Russian gas. Buildout of new nuclear and SMR as soon as possible, and declaring nuclear as green energy should be prioritised. Wind and solar is not enough to stabilise the grid without storage technology.
- villmann 5y agoA NATO alliance that is an American puppet and following American interests is dangerous for the stability in Europe. Europe should take more responsibility for it's own safety.
- me_me_me 5y ago> A NATO alliance that is an American puppet and following American interests please explain
- enigma20 5y agoMost sad thing to me is that millions of people around the world were protesting for example when the BLM was started. In countries which are far far away from US, don't even have black community, people were lying on the ground next to the embassies, screaming "can't breathe", but now I don't see the same people supporting Ukraine, by pushing own governments to make more pressure on Russia.
- jfengel 5y agoOne big difference is that something is being done. It's just economic sanctions, so far, and that's not much, but at least it's something. The BLM movement was protesting something that had been ongoing for decades, and had finally become absolutely undeniable with grisly film footage, but there was still nothing being done. That made it ripe for people around the world to demand change. I sure wish the entire would would be doing something similar now, to isolate Russia. There's an unfortunate symmetry that people expect the US government to improve, while they treat more dictatorial governments as "eh, they won't change, so why bother"? The US has absolutely made itself look awful by failing to respond to a long and increasingly well-documented history of police abuses -- as well as invasions -- but people protest because they expect it to do better. Other countries are responding to the Russian invasion, and it seems like people are using that in place of letting their personal views be known.
- enigma20 5y agoWith Russia things are also going for decades. Whole nonsense with Ukraine started 2014 if I'm not mistaken. Since Soviet union failed, they are being bullies all the time. And now apparently something is done? Before 1939, England and France probably also though that they are doing something. What will happen in the coming years between China and Taiwan. To me, nobody does anything. Maybe response is stronger than few years back, but I bet it will end same like with Crimea, and live will go on. Germany will approve Nord Stream 2, and the live will go on, till Russia decides again to bully someone ...
- togs 5y agoI will be editing this on an on-going basis. To my understanding: 1. Russia declared two regions of a whole country--Ukraine--sovereign. 2. Russia is moving its troops into those regions on the premise that the citizens of these Ukraine regions seek sovereignty. 3. Sovereignty is valid only if other countries recognize it. 4. Russia recognizes these regions as sovereign. 5. All countries who are not Russia--or at least members of NATO--recognize Ukraine. Borrowing from regex, let's refer to the latter group as `NATO+`.
- tim333 5y agoWell, maybe if they stick to occupying the new areas that won't be so bad. It could even be more peaceful if the 'rebel forces' stop attacking things.