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Ask HN: Why is there no small Android phone?

• akvadrako 5y ago
  There are small phones: https://www.unihertz.com/collections/all-products https://www.unihertz.com/collections/all-products They just aren't popular because they have a lot of tradeoffs.
• dheera 5y ago
  There's this? https://palm.com/pages/product https://palm.com/pages/product
• cybarDOTlive 5y ago
  i deleted my acc cause i got rated limited
  • fxtentacle 5y ago
    I need a working web browser and support for mandatory apps like online banking two factor.
  • deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
• Ekaros 5y ago
  I'm personally much more worried about width not height... And it seems only Sony has some to offer.
  • fxtentacle 5y ago
    I like that I can use an iPhone SE with just one hand because it's short enough to reach the top with my thumb. That comes in very handy when you're carrying a sleeping baby.
    • ldjb 5y ago
      On my Samsung Galaxy phone, I can double-tap the Home button and it downscales the screen into the corner so I can reach the entire screen with my thumb. So there is a solution to that problem. The main problem I have with large phones is that they won't fit into my pocket. Sure, I could get out the needle-and-thread and sew myself some larger pockets, but I shouldn't have to do that. I'd much rather just have a smaller phone.
    • adhesive_wombat 5y ago
      At least Huawei and Samsung have one-handed mode that shrinks the screen. The Huawei gesture is a sideways swipe on the navigation bar (it shrinks to the side you swipe towards).
      • sofixa 5y ago
        I think it's an Android thing, I've also seen it on Xiaomi/Redmi and OnePlus phones.
  • password4321 5y ago
    The Moto G Power is narrow. No NFC / wireless charging. $50 after Google Fi rebates, often out of stock.
• robin_reala 5y ago
  ASUS Zenfone 8 is probably the closest mainstream Android phone you’ll get. It’s 144mm tall. https://www.asus.com/Mobile/Phones/ZenFone/Zenfone-8/ https://www.asus.com/Mobile/Phones/ZenFone/Zenfone-8/
  • Snuupy 5y ago
    Careful, lots of reports about bricked/being stuck in EDL. Have to send it back to ASUS under warranty to get the motherboard replaced.
    • kirenida 5y ago
      Reports of this have stopped on the official forum, but now we (Zenfone8 users) are stuck waiting for both a bugfix Android 12 release (still lots of problems with latest official release) or a new A11 update (latest security update is from November 2021). All in all, it's a good phone, I'm happy with it (coming from a Huawei P10), but I'm dissapointed with the lack of official response to the ramdump/bricking issue and the lack of software updates, after getting regular monthly updates basically up to nov/dec. It feels like Asus basically gave up on the product.
      • Snuupy 5y ago
        Hey - I had a P10 too! :) Ended up giving it away after custom roms refused to work on it and all the devs gave up on the phone because Huawei stopped allowing bootloader unlocks. I specifically bought the P10 because I didn't think that would happen, but what a turn of events. I have crossed Huawei off my list of phones to ever recommend/buy myself because of the bait/switch. Additionally (and you'll never see this in the reviews), the GPU on the Huawei phones were always terribly inefficient and ate through the battery like crazy. Unsure if newer models are like this as well, but it's not worth getting them anyway cus gapps aren't officially supported anyway. > stopped on the official forum phew, that's good to hear. Imagine being someone that bought a used Zenfone 8 and not having the receipts to send it back for warranty. Would've been a nightmare for a 700usd phone. > still lots of problems with latest official release I'm not happy about the poor software experience especially when you've paid so much for it. I tended to steer people away from asus - they tend to build great hardware and then flounder in the software department (not just for phones, for routers, laptops, etc. too). I'm definitely willing to lower the hardware value slightly to get proper software support for the next few years which is why I jumped on the Pixel 4a when it was released. Would I like to have a SD888 in my pixel? yeah - but proper software support is more important.
• kstenerud 5y ago
  Ulefone X series have 5 to 5.5 inch screens: https://www.ulefone.com/c/armor-x-series-0430 https://www.ulefone.com/c/armor-x-series-0430 Unihertz makes even smaller phones: https://www.unihertz.com/en-de/collections/all-products https://www.unihertz.com/en-de/collections/all-products There are also some other small-time companies, but the major players are stuck in bigger-is-better mode, unfortunately :/
  • Snuupy 5y ago
    These brands have terrible software support and often don't release proper updates. Outdated/unsupported software -> terrible user experience.
• baybal2 5y ago
  > Ask HN: Why is there no small Android phone? Because big brands are marketing driven. Most of marketing people are followers. They see Samsung Note being a blockbuster, and all copy. Very few marketing people can play their own line, because they don't know how. If look who puts innovation into the space, you see most successful new things, and especially lifestyle products being introduced by outsiders: Samsung Note — an enthusiast product launched for SK domestic market largely on engineering's own initiative, Asus EEE — Asus's business higher-ups were very sceptical, but were overruled by Chairman Shih, Apple Iphone - no comments needed
• hirundo 5y ago
  I walked into a Verizon shop last week, held up my old (large) Samsung S9+, and said I was looking for a smaller phone. They said nope, we don't have anything smaller. The S9+ was one of the larger options when I bought it. Now they're almost all huge. So I bought a 6" tall Pixel 5 elsewhere, not quite as small as you're looking for, but a great phone, and it feels tiny compared to the S9+.
• iqanq 5y ago
  "Why doesn't X exist?" Because people generally don't want it.
  • gbear605 5y ago
    Then why do people want iPhones in that size but not Androids?
    • KptMarchewa 5y ago
      Apparently it does not sell as well there. Apple keeps trying and yet discontinuing it.
    • bluedino 5y ago
      The Mini is their worst selling phone and the 13 is rumored to be the last one
      • gbear605 5y ago
        The SE is still decently popular and they’re rumored to be releasing a new one next month.
  • mihaaly 5y ago
    or buy based on hype - controlled by manufacturers - not real needs.
  • pinephoneguy 5y ago
    Or maybe the same kind of person who prefers a smaller phone tends to wait longer before replacing it.
• Leherenn 5y ago
  Apple is supposedly discontinuing the iPhone mini though, so presumably the demand isn't really there. I think the big issue with small Android phones is battery life. Apple was already getting some flak for it, and between the SoC and OS, it's a much more power efficient system.
  • gbear605 5y ago
    They’re still keeping the SE line though - a new release is expected in the next couple of months.
    • Leherenn 5y ago
      It's the budget line though. Is it small because they want it to be small, or because they're re-using the iPhone 8 tooling, which happened to be small(er)? I still think the fact they're discontinuing their non-budget small offering is pretty significant. If there was a significant market, they would have kept it. Also, presumably, they have better margins on the mini than on the SE so you would expect them to keep the former if possible.
    • randallsquared 5y ago
      The SE line has Touch ID, does it not? That's a huge differentiator, and one of the main reasons I switched to Samsung a few years ago. Actually, assuming they keep Touch ID in the SE 3, I might now switch back...
      • iso1210 5y ago
        I'd certainly prefer touchID to faceID on my 12 mini, I'd prefer a headphone socket too, sadly these options aren't available
  • isoprophlex 5y ago
    The mini is said to be superseded by a new SE release coming April..!
    • 5y ago
• Jemm 5y ago
  Because it is less effective to show ads on a small phone.
  • benbristow 5y ago
    Don't know why you're being downvoted here. Maybe Mark Zuckerberg is lurking around here. It's a valid point. Less screen real estate = less space for ads.
    • Nextgrid 5y ago
      It's a reasonable point when you consider that the vast majority of consumer-grade software industry is "growth and engagement" garbage whose primary business model is advertising.
  • fomine3 5y ago
    This is important. It's not comfortable to use short height device without ad blocker because ads uses near the half of height.
• smitty1e 5y ago
  I always figure that the market is like a normal distribution, and companies are staking out segments thereof. Apple may have had a product in that form factor, but is that segment stagnant? Do they have it sewn up? Can a profit be turned by competing there? If there is better margin with an S22 large enough to land a drone, then that direction is where efforts will tend.
• Snuupy 5y ago
  The closest (proper) android equivalent to me is the Pixel 4a (at 144mm height). Unfortunately the 5a and (leaked specs) of the 6a are both gigantic and is unfortunate to me. It does a lot of things right: is a (relatively) smol phone, has proper software updates/support, has a headphone jack, allows for bootloader unlocking, support eSIM, has usb3, has a large development community for custom roms/after-market support, and has proper noise cancellation for calls (many other OEMs don't have proper noise cancellation leading to echos all the time) The other contenders are all either larger (but better hardware value), had worse software support, or had a combination of the previous. I will however give a nod to OnePlus for allowing QFIL flashing and having those files available for when devices are soft-bricked/stuck in EDL mode so you can always rescue them. However, their software leaves a lot to be desired in both long term software updates (older models are often not given timely updates), and in refinement (ex. my OnePlus 6T constantly echos on phone calls). A note if you're going to go Pixel line: if you ever decide to root, MAKE SURE you flash the correct model's files. I've seen several times online and had a friend flash the wrong model and end up perma-bricking their phones. Google does /not/ release the QFIL/firehose files for their phones (unlike OnePlus, Xiaomi) so if you make this mistake you WILL have to send it back for a motherboard replacement. If you don't have warranty coverage, that phone is permanently bricked. Make sure you flash the right files.
  • BadOakOx 5y ago
    Just fyi, Pixel 5 is nearly identical in size to Pixel 4a. (144.7 x 70.4 x 8 mm vs 144 x 69.4 x 8.2 mm ) ...it has better hardware, but no headphone jack and nearly twice the price.
    • Snuupy 5y ago
      Haha, I saw that. Terrible value proposition compared to the 4a. Lose headphone jack, gain IP68, wireless charging, but pay a bunch more for it.
      • BadOakOx 5y ago
        + better display (higher refresh rate), + better battery (it lasts me 3 days on average), + better CPU/more RAM, + one more camera I wouldn't agree that it is a terrible value (but I might be biased, because I have it). I think the 4a has a great value, but you wouldn't get the extras you get cheaper anywhere else. And I don't mind the missing headphone jack. Also, I just have my one and only USB port covered, so I am on full wireless mode with it.
• nmstoker 5y ago
  In many respects I much prefer my prior Android (Pixel 4) over the Pixel 6 XL I have now, I just didn't want to have a phone with an inferior camera (mobile photography is a big interest of mine) and the 4 was losing support. I keep the 4 going for certain things and every time I pick it up it's a joy because it's so compact. No risk of dropping it, unlike the new one which I've stuck tennis racquet grip on the case to help! (it doesn't look as stupid as it sounds!)
• TrianguloY 5y ago
  Almost-same question 3 months ago: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29287158 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29287158 (I'm still happy with my xperia 10 III. Tall phone, but only 68mm width)
• WithinReason 5y ago
  How about: https://www.gsmarena.com/oppo_find_n-11267.php https://www.gsmarena.com/oppo_find_n-11267.php Dimensions: Unfolded: 132.6 x 140.2 x 8.0 mm Folded: 132.6 x 73 x 15.9 mm Internal: 256GB 8GB RAM, 512GB 12GB RAM A bit on the expensive side though...
• martin_henk 5y ago
  rakuten hand. japan domestic
• MereInterest 5y ago
  I'd love to see research to back up or refute this, but I think it's driven by cost and later justified through marketing. The larger a phone is, the larger components can be used, and the less design work needs to be done to ensure that everything fits without causing thermal issues or cross-talk. After that, you get a lot of marketing to establish that a bigger screen is inherently better, rather than being a design flaw. In my opinion, a phone should be small enough that it can fit in the palm of one hand, with every part of the screen reachable with the thumb of that hand. Unfortunately, screen sizes have been creeping up with each generation, and it's impossible to find reasonably sized phones anymore.
  • b112 5y ago
    I don't think so. Otherwise, 15+ years ago, Android phones wouldn't have started out as small as they did. And they're so much smaller (components) now. If you open a modern phone, there's actually loads of space. And the smaller the screen, the less battery you need too.
    • Rzor 5y ago
      Screen panels were more expensive.
    • mimentum 5y ago
      Component cost was a barrier to larger size. Just like DSLRs started out with APS-C sized sensors, handsets started out with smaller screens.
    • dahfizz 5y ago
      > And the smaller the screen, the less battery you need too. Sure, but the larger the screen the larger the battery that can fit. Apple themselves report that the iPhone 13 pro max will last longer than the pro, and the regular 13 will last longer than the mini. Third party testing confirms for Samsung as well, with the s21 ultra lasting much longer than its smaller brothers.
    • Someone 5y ago
      > If you open a modern phone, there's actually loads of space. Can you give an example? I thought that at least the high-end ones are designed to fill up every corner.
• aftergibson 5y ago
  There's terrific small Android Phones. The Jelly 2: https://www.unihertz.com/products/jelly-2 https://www.unihertz.com/products/jelly-2 Dimensions: 95*49.4*16.5mm Weight: 110g (with battery) CPU: Helio P60 Octa-Core, 2.0GHz Operating System: Android 10 Memory: 6GB+128GB UFS 2.1
  • skykooler 5y ago
    The Jelly really highlights some aspects of Android that are no longer designed to work on small screens - some apps, such as Lyft, are unusable because they position an important button offscreen.
    • Wildgoose 5y ago
      That happens with Apple as well. I have a 2016 iPhone SE, and one of my apps (for the ZiiLock bicycle lock) is unusable on my phone, I have to use my iPad mini instead. Great lock, worthless (to me) software: https://ziilock.com/ https://ziilock.com/
      • vanilla_nut 5y ago
        Spotify frequently commits this sin, too. At one point I literally couldn’t play any albums because a popup obscured my screen whenever I loaded the app. The app quality for a still supported Apple phone certainly made my decision to leave easier.
• haunter 5y ago
  Samsung Galaxy S10e, 142 mm high, 6 or 8 gigs of RAM. https://www.samsung.com/global/galaxy/galaxy-s10/specs/ https://www.samsung.com/global/galaxy/galaxy-s10/specs/ And LineageOS is offically supported https://wiki.lineageos.org/devices/beyond0lte/ https://wiki.lineageos.org/devices/beyond0lte/
  • grujicd 5y ago
    S10e is great, except for battery life. But it’s not sold any more. New S22 is just slightly larger but it lacks audio out and memory expansion slot, which could be a problem since only 128GB model is available for preorder in my country.
  • ihateolives 5y ago
    It's okay-ish phone, but battery life is not stellar by any means. If I had to choose between a bigger phone with better battery that gets me through the day and a smaller one which needs power bank in the afternoon I'd opt for the former.
  • avtolik 5y ago
    I have 10e, and is a good size for me. Why would you put a LineageOS on it, what are the benefits? Samsung has updated the phone to the latest Android version. Also are the banking apps working after you replace the OS?
    • f1refly 5y ago
      > what are the benefits? No google and no samsung spyware integration into the system is a major upside. Lots of people also prefer the normal android distribution instead of the version Samsung designers agreed on.
  • Jiejeing 5y ago
    S10e is great (my current phone), but not manufactured anymore, but the firmware is buggy (needs a hard reboot once a month at least otherwise at some points it will refuse charging), and the battery life is not ideal, to say the least.
• AlchemistCamp 5y ago
  There are. Xiaomi makes smaller phones of high quality. Check out the Mi 9 SE or the upcoming small Redmi for examples.
• dvh 5y ago
  Smallest I could find is this: https://www.alza.sk/cubot-king-kong-mini-2-cerveny-d6482813.htm#parametry https://www.alza.sk/cubot-king-kong-mini-2-cerveny-d6482813.... Cubot King Kong Mini 2 - 1080x540 IPS, 3GB, 120GB flash, dual sim, 119mm x 58mm x 12mm, 123g, Mediatek MT6761, 3000 mAh, USB-C, Android 10, 100€
  • jaclaz 5y ago
    I bought one of these a few months ago (nearly, the "old" mini, not the mini2) and though it isn't one of the 8th wonders of the world, it does the little things I bought it for. It is actually very (possibly even too) small, and using the virtual keyboard is an issue due to the minimal size of keys, but otherwise it's not too bad.
• vijaybritto 5y ago
  It simply doesn't sell. While I like smaller phones, I'm forced to buy a larger phone because the specs in a smaller phone are quite low and doesn't perform well and so larger phones outsell smaller ones by a factor of 20.
• Pedrit0 5y ago
  Personnaly I love small phones and I am stuck with a Samsung Galaxy A3... released in 2017. It is 135.4 x 66.2 x 7.9 mm and has a super-AMOLED screen, 3GB RAM and Knox layer for secure corporate enrollment. You cannot find smaller or as small devices with such specs since 2017. The downsides ? It has a 16GB Rom (it has a SD card but less and less apps can be moved on the SD card) and the battery will not last forever (even if until now it resists very well). The smallest and modern device I have spotted since then is the Asus Zenfone 8 but it is bigger than the Galaxy A3 2017: 148 x 68.5 x 8.9 mm
• mg 5y ago
  I maintain this chart of small Android phones, maybe it helps: https://www.productchart.com/smartphones/small_android_phones https://www.productchart.com/smartphones/small_android_phone... You can move the "RAM" slider to 3GB which will show the phones that have 3GB or more. And the screen slider to your desired size. A height of 140mm means the phone would have a display size of roughly 5 or 6 inches. For the USA, it gives me 90 phones with 3GB and up to 6 inches.
  • JamesAdir 5y ago
    you've got several discontinued models there and it's a problem cause you cant' get an updated android version and sometime it's hard to get them an alternative. Also in 2020-2021 the only phones launched were the Pixel 4a and the Asus Zenphone 8.
  • montroser 5y ago
    Cool. On what counts as "small" it's really not so much about screen size -- I don't want a small screen, I want a small phone. So it would be great to be able to filter by outright product dimensions. Also would love to be able to filter to usb-c, headphone jack, and Android version.
    • BadOakOx 5y ago
      + this, that Unihertz Titan in the list is a chunky one, because of the qwerty keyboard but small screen with 153.6x 92.5x 16.65 mm dimensions...
    • mg 5y ago
      I could implement the filtering by Android version. I already research that info. You can see it when you click on the phone. I did not add a filter for it as it might be somewhat misleading. Because it might be possible to upgrade the phone to a newer version. As for phyiscal size, usb-c and headphone jack - I would have to research that data. All data on Product Chart is reasearched manually. So it takes quite some work to add another parameter.
      • 5y ago
• BadOakOx 5y ago
  I asked this question so many times. For a long a time I was a big fan of the Xperia Z Compact line... Now, Sony also stopped making these smaller phones... I switched to Pixel 5 recently. I am happy with it, the main reason I wanted/liked the smaller phones so I could reach everything with my thumb and I could use the phone with one hand. The advantage of Pixel 5 (and other newer phones) is that they are very thin, so it is easier to hold in one hand. The other thing that just got introduced with Android 12 is the one-handed mode, that I use a lot. With these two things in mind I have to say, I don't mind the size of the phone.
  • littlecranky67 5y ago
    In fall 2019 I had the same issue, needing a new, small phone. On Android, there was only the Pixel 3a which fit the criteria, and two Samsungs. Since I despise Samsung mostly for their buggy firmware/bad integration of non-google Bloatware, I only considered the Pixel and the iPhone 8. At that point of time, the iPhone 10 series was just introduces and the iPhone 8 almost a year on the market. I went with the iPhone (even though I never had iOS before) and do not regret it. Fast forward 2022, the Pixel 3 has fallen out of support, while my iPhone 8 still is supported, and I don't see any upgrade happening to a new phone unless Apple stops support or I lose/break it.
• barbacoa 5y ago
  Smallest android smart phone I found, 83x40mm. https://www.amazon.com/Sudroid-Unlocked-Smartphone-Smallest-Network/dp/B08JPYZHGF/ https://www.amazon.com/Sudroid-Unlocked-Smartphone-Smallest-...
  • mjrpes 5y ago
    3G only, which carriers are shutting down this year.
• JackMorgan 5y ago
  I have a Palm Phone that's pretty darn small. https://palm.com/pages/product https://palm.com/pages/product
  • ChrisMarshallNY 5y ago
    That’s the one I immediately thought of.
  • eatonphil 5y ago
    Sold out! I guess that's a good sign.
  • windowsrookie 5y ago
    I have on too! It's too slow for me now to use daily, but I do bring it with me while traveling as an emergency backup. I really wish they would release an updated model.
  • mbarbar 5y ago
    How are you finding the battery? It seems this is the most common complaint. Edit: and also, what's the software support story here?
    • Beltalowda 5y ago
      No more updates it seems: https://old.reddit.com/r/PalmPalm/comments/si8q1s/is_the_palm_phone_still_being_supported_will/ https://old.reddit.com/r/PalmPalm/comments/si8q1s/is_the_pal...
  • pinephoneguy 5y ago
    It's a shame it runs Android and not PalmOS.
  • stgnet 5y ago
    Same here. It's my daily driver. It does everything that a larger phone does (except NFC and WIFI hotspot) and it fits in the coin pocket of my jeans. I can sit on this phone and it does not break (granted I have the mophie extra battery case around it). Oh, and I seldom need the extra battery since I'm running a verizon sim and the battery even without life mode lasts all day if I'm not on it constantly. This is the answer to OP's question, although it's a shame that it's slightly sim limited (can't change the APN so can't use visible) and there apparently won't be any updates or newer models. The only other viable small option is the mini iphone, which while it fits in my coin pocket is not as small as I'd like and will be much too easy to break.
• makosdv 5y ago
  That's why I stuck with an S4 for so long; there just wasn't a good replacement that met my requirements. I finally got an S10e a couple years ago, which has been pretty good. It's still a little bigger than I would like, but... Many people want the larger phones for various reasons and many others don't seem to care. Those of us who want smaller phones seem to be a minority, so we don't get many options. It's a similar story with headphone jacks...
• albert_e 5y ago
  I wanted HP Veer placed an order during the fire sale season of HP TouchPad but order got cancelled that was a cute one (WebOS)
• muzani 5y ago
  Fat fingers? It's hard enough to type on a touchscreen. I'm on what used to be called a "phablet" sized phone and I still make mistakes all the time.
  • lproven 5y ago
    This. I understand and appreciate some people want smaller phones. I have the other problem. I am a 1m88 (6'2") man with hands big enough to cover notes 11 keys apart on a piano. I can carry 2 pints of beer in each hand, or 5 pints without the glasses touching. My 6.5" phablet is almost of usable size, but more would be good. A phone should reach from ear to mouth: that is the defining ergonomic factor of something one holds to one's ear and talks into.
    • asimops 5y ago
      I love the measurement in beer. Always good ;) Which keyboard do you use? I think I have bigger hands and I can accurately type on a Pixel 4a (144x69.4x8.2mm) with a trained SwiftKey keyboard. (Just don't connect it to the cloud)
      • lproven 5y ago
        Swype. Accept no subtitute. Best touchscreen text entry system I know.
      • muzani 5y ago
        This thread reminds me of this meme: https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/buff-guys-help-out-nerdy-kid https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/buff-guys-help-out-nerdy-kid
• pge 5y ago
  The issue is battery life. Apple has figured that out for small phones, but no one has figured out how to make a small android phone with similar battery life to an iphone se.
• sunflowerdeath 5y ago
  Same reason there is almost no phones with clean android - manufacturers focus on marketing and follow easiest path, instead of really caring about users needs.
• odiroot 5y ago
  Thanks OP, I'm asking this myself for last 3 years. I think I'm gonna stick with my Xperia XZ2 Compact until it literally breaks apart. It's been quite good last 3 years. I couldn't find any Android phone under 140mm since then.
  • fxtentacle 5y ago
    Funny coincidence, I'm also stuck with a slowly breaking XZ2 waiting for new phones to be released.
    • odiroot 5y ago
      I'm very careful not to break mine, for the same reason :)
  • Ekaros 5y ago
    And that is why I bought a second one... 199€ wasted, maybe I can root it, doubt I can sell it for that price.
• onenukecourse 5y ago
  A few years ago I read something that opened my eyes about smartphones - the larger they got the better battery life they got. It makes sense: - Screens use energy as the square of their diagonal dimension. - Batteries store energy as the square of their diagonal dimension. So it's a wash? No! Since there are other things inside the phone whose dimensions are essentially fixed (the phone itself), the proportion of battery area to the screen area tends to one as the phone gets larger. My 2016 iPhone SE (daily driver) has a battery about a third the size of the phone. I can imagine that an iPhone 13 Pro has a battery at least 2/3s the total size. So you have to choose two of three: Battery life, fast phone (uses more power), or small phone. I chose: none of the above. My next phone will be a Pinephone no matter what it's dimensions, battery life or performance is. We have to break the power of Big Tech.
  • leodriesch 5y ago
    From personal experience I can say that this is true. I had the iPhone 12 mini and the iPhone 13 Pro afterwards, and the difference is night and day. I’d say the battery life on the 13 Pro is at least twice as good as on the 12 mini, and I wouldn’t attribute it to the 1 generation jump in technology.
• seba_dos1 5y ago
  It's probably off-topic as the question is about Android phones, but I want to vent: I'm using a Librem 5 and I'd love it to be smaller (not necessarily thinner, thickness doesn't bother me at all). I think slightly larger than N900 would be perfect. That said, larger size makes it much easier to pack the electronics, have reasonable thermals and large enough battery for these kind of phones, so it's not like it's just a design choice that could have been easily changed.
• lewisjoe 5y ago
  Sadly, there are rumours that Apple is ditching the mini series i.e iphone 14 variants will have a iphone 14 max and iphone 14 max pro separately instead of the mini version. I use a iphone 12 mini because of the lack of android alternative and I'm sad to see my last resort go :(
• asimops 5y ago
  A family member of mine put it that way: I need a big screen, how else am I going to do gaming and netflix on there? I still can not reason with why you would want that but apparently this is what the mayority wants... Personally, I want a small phone too. I have pretty large hands, so I am comfortable with up to 150mm height, but I have other requirements that somehow limit me to two phones right now. [0] Especially I want a recent model because there are so many flaws in processors that you always have to have a recent one to be kind of secure -.- Sadly the Asus seems to have crap support and the pixel is quite old already. I currently just hope that the Pixel 6a is smaller then the leaks suggest. In the mean time I bought a Pixel 4a as a stop-gap solution. [0] https://geizhals.eu/?cat=umtsover&xf=10063_11.0%7E157_131072%7E162_Dual-SIM%7E18414_3.5mm-Klinke%7E18414_USB-C%7E2900_150%7E3229_2020%7E3285_3000 https://geizhals.eu/?cat=umtsover&xf=10063_11.0%7E157_131072...
• _448 5y ago
  Here are some well known brands: https://palm.com https://palm.com https://www.emporia.eu/en/home https://www.emporia.eu/en/home
• awiesenhofer 5y ago
  It will be interesting to see how foldables will fit into this (pun intended). Devices like the Motorola Razr Fold and Samsungs Z Flip for example. Of course once opened they are still pretty large phones but at least compactness while carrying and width seem promising. Plus reasonable battery life and cameras, both features that small phones too often have to do without unfortunately.
  • abruzzi 5y ago
    I can't speak for other people, but for me the size issue isn't about how big the phone is in my pocket, but the size in use, specifically whether my thumb can reach any point on the screen. So a compact phone that unfolds to a large screen defeats the entire purpose for me.
    • AdrianB1 5y ago
      For some people size in the pocket also matters, maybe not for most. My 2 use cases are both for size in the pocket - cycling with Strava running in the background or riding the motorcycle with phone, wallet and everything else in the motorcycle jacket's pockets. I recognize this is not what most people do, but there is a fair amount that does.
• pajko 5y ago
  But there is. The Xcover 5 is 147.5mm tall and 5.3 inches diagonally: https://m.gsmarena.com/samsung_galaxy_xcover_5-10718.php https://m.gsmarena.com/samsung_galaxy_xcover_5-10718.php
  • mrspuratic 5y ago
    Bonus is the XCover is semi-rugged. I went for the slightly smaller Xcover 4s (146.2 x 73.3 x 9.7 mm³ / 5" screen) even though it was older (think trailing edge bargain!). Partner has the 5 (higher capacity battery, but no hard buttons). I tend to keep my phone until it gets full and "becomes" obsolete, rather than breaks. Size, gorilla glass, followed by storage are my main criteria. Previous phone was a Moto E2 (lasted 5y before software updates made it untenable). Each upgrade gains about 10-15mm in height, sadly. Still miss my Moto Defy (107x 59 x 13 mm / 3.7" ), sizewise anyway. One-handed I only comfortably have about 2/3rds screen coverage on the Xcover.
• kevincox 5y ago
  > The fact that Apple released 3 phones in 3 years with this form factor shows me that it is a profitable market segment and that there is demand. I don't think this is necessarily a good conclusion. Typically planning and design of a phone happens at least 2 years in advance. This means that they may have been lining up manufacturing contracts for the iPhone 13 mini before they had decisive evidence on the profitability of the iPhone SE. Also note that the profitability of the SE may well have been based on price more than size. I think if they release another one then it is likely that they do find it profitable and one next year would be pretty strong evidence.
• Radeo 5y ago
  Try Samsung A40
• captainmuon 5y ago
  I used to work in the touchscreen space, and from what I've anecdotally heard is that screen makers take little or no input from their customers, unless you are Apple or Samsung. They are doing fine with the big sizes, maybe they have determined that releasing smaller phones will cannibalize their sales or they don't want to adjust their software for two screen sizes. And smaller vendors can't get customized screens for a competitive price, so they have to take what is on the market. You see the same phenomenon in the laptop market. Device size is designed around screen size, and you can only get certain sizes like 13.3", 15.6". Apple is one of the few companies that controls their own screen manufacturing.
• umvi 5y ago
  I have a Unihertz Jelly 2, and I love it
  • hifikuno 5y ago
    I came to say this same thing. I have used my Jelly 2 everyday since I got it. At first it was kind of a novelty to me, but now it's just normal. People still comment on it when I use it for Google Pay. I would love to see more small phones like this, though I have a feeling the next one we'll see will most likely come from Unihertz again.
• DaveSapien 5y ago
  From a manufacturers point of view its a really hard sale, a smaller device will alway have 'poor' battery life or use a less powerful cpu to keep the battery life on par with bigger phones. Either way reviewers will tank it for either of these reasons. As well as not enough room for a flagship camera array, again reviewers will pan it for this reason also. Couple that with a niche audience and the cost of ordering a batch of different sized screens (in smaller quantities), it's just not that attractive a market to get into. In short, they would be trying to sell a device with smaller profits that they KNOW will get panned by reviewers to a niche audience.
  • unfocussed_mike 5y ago
    > a smaller device will alway have 'poor' battery life or use a less powerful cpu to keep the battery life on par with bigger phones. I am not convinced by this -- not least because it will also have a smaller and lower-resolution screen, which brings with it power savings. Before I switched to iOS, I had a Sony Xperia Mini Pro -- the second version. Slide out keyboard, absolutely tiny. And it was _very_ powerful indeed for its price and size in its day, with surprisingly good battery life (from a really tiny battery) and an incredible display. A contemporaneous review was here: https://www.gsmarena.com/sony_ericsson_xperia_mini_pro-review-633.php https://www.gsmarena.com/sony_ericsson_xperia_mini_pro-revie... Can't tell you how many admiring looks it got even from iPhone owners. Decent camera for the time (and a hardware shutter button), and a fantastic little thumbs keyboard. I then had an iPhone 5S and SE. The 5S was an older device by the time I got it, but the SE was/is very capable and it has excellent battery life (especially by Android standards), again because it's driving a smaller, lower-resolution display. It might be a tough sell in the Android market, but I think it could be done again well technically. There just isn't enough interest to persuade app developers to support a smaller screen format, and web developers won't do it either.
    • kitsunesoba 5y ago
      > There just isn't enough interest to persuade app developers to support a smaller screen format, and web developers won't do it either. On iOS supporting smaller screen sizes is fairly trivial as long as you’re using the apple-blessed layout APIs and not doing silly things like using static widths. It’s a bit more hairy on Android (simply due to the overwhelming mediocrity of Android Framework) but not anything too terrible. It might be more annoying with cross platform frameworks though.
• brnaftr361 5y ago
  I think it's got a lot to do with tech journalists reaming Sony for their design language on the Xperia line. Every article I read on the XZ1C was whinging about it, too blocky, too bezel... Not an exact replica of Samsung/Apple... And then they started with their new line, and it no longer satisfies the niche, but it satisfied the journalists that weren't ever in the target demo anyways.
• JamesAdir 5y ago
  Previous discussion from 3 months ago: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29287158 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29287158
• bncy 5y ago
  Often I see the argument that smaller phones have smaller batteries. But still phones these days are very thin, I wouldn't mind if it'd a bit thicker but provided me with more battery life.
• threatofrain 5y ago
  The Apple rumor mill suggests that this is the year that the iPhone Mini ends.
  • _0w8t 5y ago
    They are going to upgrade SE which will be the same size as the current SE 2020 as rumors suggest. And while Mini is smaller, SE still counts as a small phone.
• xanaxagoras 5y ago
  I would kill for an iPhone mini sized pixel. I use a Pixel 4a and even that's bigger than I'd like. When it dies, if there's still only giant pixels, I'm just going to buy another one used.
• a4isms 5y ago
  Interesting to read all the supposed systemic reasons that manufacturers do not want to serve the market for a compact phone. Is it the lack of a flagship camera array? Battery life? Screen size? Less powerful but battery-thrifty CPUs? The fear of a hostile review from the press? These all sound plausible, except for one thing: Why does Apple sell the SE (which is rumoured to be due for a refresh in March), the iPhone 12 mini, and now the iPhone 13 mini? Are Apple unaware of all the reasons why they can't make money selling a compact phone? Apple have literally no reason to sell these phones except to make money. It's not like the market is flooded with compact Android phones and they have to sell a compact phone or lose out. With a dearth of good competitive options, Apple could decline to sell a compact phone and still make out like bandits. I conclude that there is a market for selling compact phones, and Apple is doing just fine in it. If there's a systemic reason compact phones won't sell on Android, there must be an android-specific factor in play, because clearly there is a demand for these phones and a willingness to pay a premium to buy one from Apple.
  • fomine3 5y ago
    Apple iPhone is far efficient compared to Android devices, so they can make smaller high end devices. From some news, iPhone mini series sales are bad. So it is expected that 14 mini won't happen.
  • JimBlackwood 5y ago
    I work at a company that mainly deals with phones, Apple Mini/SE sales are not great. It’s a niche market and it mainly caters to older customers. I think this is an important market for Apple to keep, so we might see the continued existence of an SE/Mini line-up but the phones itself are not what’s making them money.
• haolez 5y ago
  Slightly related, but I was surprised while browsing AliExpress about the existence of really tiny Android phones, as in slightly bigger than a key chain. Later on I've learned through a news piece that these devices are used to bypass prisons' security checks (they probably fit in our orifices). Crazy world out there!
• vidyesh 5y ago
  > The fact that Apple released 3 phones in 3 years with this form factor shows me that it is a profitable market segment and that there is demand. Correlation does not imply causation. Apple might also be releasing them to use their old manufactured parts, Apple has a very healthy recycle plan for users who trade in their phones, not all Android OEMs have that. And Apple likes to boast about how environmentally friendly they are. 2 of 3 phones you mentioned are using some older parts. So the releasing could purely be reuse some old parts thus reducing the manufacturing costs, and gain a little higher profit on these despite having low sale numbers from these.
  • pcdoodle 5y ago
    Apple does not recycle any components into new phones.
    • aembleton 5y ago
      What do they do with them?
      • Sprite_tm 5y ago
        Likely take it apart, recycle the metals and where possible plastics, dump the rest.
    • vidyesh 5y ago
      I should have been more specific, they make new phones with recycled materials. They use recycled gold, tungsten, aluminum and other metals. Some of the materials are not used in new phones but older/smaller models and some iPads do use it.
• j45 5y ago
  Palm had a small option recently.
• ruffrey 5y ago
  https://www.unihertz.com/collections/smartphones/products/jelly-2 https://www.unihertz.com/collections/smartphones/products/je... Jelly 2 is small and quite usable for its tiny nature.
• bjt2n3904 5y ago
  I asked a similar question in the Razr smartphone era: why isn't there a phone I can easily plug into my computer and move around pictures and music like a thumb drive? I suspect the answer is this: a market restricted by NDAs and closed source software that stifles innovation, and a marketing department that caters towards the YouTube front page / influencers. (Or at least, their perception of that.) But I suspect in another way, things that made Android awesome initially, like replaceable batteries, became an undesired feature as battery technology progressed. My screen will break, or I'll want a new phone before the battery gives out.
• Animats 5y ago
  Tiny smartphones are available in the more advanced countries.[1] You can find similar products by searching for "tiny smartphone" on Amazon. [1] https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/Free-Shipping-2-5-Inch-Touch_60793121900.html https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/Free-Shipping-2-5-Inc...
  • damidekronik 5y ago
• fidrelity 5y ago
  I had the torture to look for a new phone recently and one of my requirements was also a small size coming from a Pixel 3a (about 150mm iirc). If you're looking for a small but flagship Android then there's currently only the Asus ZenFone (expensive) or the Galaxy phones (s21, a52) which are reasonable in size. But at least the Samsung are full of bloatware. I think the main reason not more are being built because it's hard to fit in a decent battery and the latest hardware needs more power so phones get bigger.
  • aembleton 5y ago
    They could try making the phones a bit bigger. A lot of flagships have a camera bump; the case could be made thicker to eliminate the camera bump and have a larger battery.
  • fomine3 5y ago
    Samsung is heavily customized (some say bloated, fair enough), so I think this is good for Android 12 because plain 12 is somewhat crap.
• yodelshady 5y ago
  I don't know. I hate iOS with a burning passion, but the SEs/minis are the only devices that fit in my hand and have software support. Android needs a way for OEMs to get some worthwhile profit in more than one market segment, and loading their own proprietary OSes isn't it. It's honestly been 7 years since a had a smartphone I was excited about.
• dandanua 5y ago
  I'm using 4.7" Samsung A3 (2017) and I was quite happy with it. But it's becoming outdated with no new alternatives, unfortunately.
• obarthelemy 5y ago
  It's a lot in the eye of the beholder. Small phone ? Iphone SE 2020: 4.7" screen. Niiiice ! Large Phone ? Asus Zenphone 8, 5.9" screen. Too huuuuge :-( except... with bezels, Iphone's body is 5.45" (138.4mm), Zenfone is 5.83" (148mm). a very small difference in height (less than 0.5"/1cm), for a screen that's... 38% bigger.
• littlecranky67 5y ago
  As a big small-phone advocate (I switched from Android to an iPhone 8 specifically for its size), I am interested in that question and - especially how everybody else is dealing with their large phones. I am in the top 1% of body height (6'4) and totally puzzled how everybody is carrying their phones. I mean I get woman who mostly carry a purse and can fit a large phone. But I myself often leave the house without any bags and use just my pant-pockets to store my wallet, keys and phone. At my height, any Phone larger than 5" is defintely uncomfortable when taking the stairs, let alone cycling etc. How do you all solve this?
  • steanne 5y ago
    i'm kinda hoping the foldable form factor will solve that, though i have not tried one myself. (women like to leave the house with just their pockets for storage too, only we have smaller pockets.)
• silisili 5y ago
  The S22 is actually really close, only 6mm off. Many consider it a small form factor. Balmuda Phone is tiny, and meets your criteria, but I think it's Japan only.
• SergeAx 5y ago
  Minis are just a poor man's iPhones. Apple should offer something for lower market segment, but it should be visibly inferior to their other models. Thus, the size. Android ecosystem has models cheap enough for quarter of minis price, and it still would be a decent phone with decent screen and other specs.
• fomine3 5y ago
  Rakuten Hand 5G (released in 2022) is 138x63x9.5mm, RAM4GB, and Snapdragon 480G. But it's only available only in Japan and only support eSIM. There are other local weird tiny phones: Balmuda Phone, mode1 GRIP.
• JimBlackwood 5y ago
  I work in this field. I think a major factor is that there just isn’t enough demand for phones of this size. When one releases, it’s always a bit of a flop. However, depending on your interests I feel like there are some decent products on the market: - Galaxy Z Flip3; it’s actually quite nice. I don’t think the technology is quite there yet, so you’d be an early adapter. Depending on how much you want a small phone, might be worth it. - Galaxy S22 (It’s 146mm, so a bit over) - Alcatel 1 (2021), very budget but compact (138mm) Then there are phones from some brands I barely know: Doro, Emporia come to mind. iirc CrossCall also has a compact phone. And other brands mentioned in this thread. Lastly, there’s a niche market of old style phones with whatsapp/browser support. No nice keyboards on those though, check the Nokia 6300 if you want to see what I’m on about. If you want decent screen and specs though, the S22 is the best bet.
• dt123 5y ago
  My guess would be that at least one reason is that they figured out that bigger screens are more addictive?
• deleted 5y ago
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