5 ms·

I think a lot of people's views have been influenced by their use of languages where the type system or overall language framework is either too weak (eg: Pytho

by zmmmmm 5y ago

I think a lot of people's views have been influenced by their use of languages where the type system or overall language framework is either too weak (eg: Python, Javascript) or in some cases too complex (eg: C++) for more than a thin layer IDE experience to be possible. If you use those kind of languages then it's true, IDEs buy you a limited set of functionality and you don't need much more than a basic language server because that's about the limit of what you can get anyway.

winrid 5y ago
Actually, modern IDEs are super helpful with JS and Python, especially with type hints. I can export a function or class in a big JS project, go to any file, start typing the method name, and Webstorm will suggest the import. With JavaScript! Not as great as the Java integration but still pretty nice.
- kitd 5y ago
  Completely agree. I recently had to work on an unfamiliar JS codebase. After initially pulling my hair out trying to understand what objects were being passed where, I decided to define some types and parameters using JSDoc . VsCode picked them up instantly and it was like coding with a language server after that.
  - winrid 5y ago
    Also recommend this to learn a new code base which will log every function call: https://www.npmjs.com/package/@phenomnomnominal/debug https://www.npmjs.com/package/@phenomnomnominal/debug
    - fuzzythinker 5y ago
      The repo has zero documentation. Do you use it on client, node, or both? Does it renders the calls in a tree?
      - winrid 5y ago
        Oh you're right, sorry. Here's the blog post the dev wrote: https://dev.to/phenomnominal/lazy-debug-logging-for-node-js-1221 https://dev.to/phenomnominal/lazy-debug-logging-for-node-js-... The idea is it logs every function call. Nice for picking up a new code base.
user3939382 5y ago
I use PhpStorm by JetBrains and am totally blown away by how powerful it is. It does all of the GP’s list and way more.
- Aeolun 5y ago
  Powerfull, but sloooow. I really want a faster Jetbrains IDE.
  - twothamendment 5y ago
    Yes, if the next release didn't have a single new feature and was just a bunch of "x is faster, y is faster" - I'd call that a great release!
  - user3939382 5y ago
    They're working on a new, faster underlying architecture with an IDE called Fleet. It looks like it may be a long-term foundational replacement for their other IDEs including PhpStorm. https://www.jetbrains.com/fleet/ https://www.jetbrains.com/fleet/
  - native_samples 5y ago
    Usually when people have speed problems with Jetbrains IDEs it's one of two things: 1. Heap size is too small and it's GCing a lot without the user realizing. Open IDE VM options and double the -Xmx setting. 2. Using a 4k display on macOS. Try the new JBR17+Metal builds. They aren't shipped yet but switch it to using Metal to render. Makes it a lot faster.
    - Aeolun 5y ago
      Huh. Nr 2 is applicable to me. Will give it a try. Can’t see how it’ll fix my permanent indexing, but maybe it’ll at least feel faster. My heap size is already at 3GB, which I feel should be enough for opening a bunch of 5kb text files :/
      - 5y ago
stickfigure 5y ago
I cut my teeth with IDEs from the 90s that did a great job with C++. The article author is just ignorant.
wwalexander 5y ago
I agree; before I starting writing Swift, my only IDE experience was using Eclipse in college, and I really looked down on IDEs. I thought of them as a crutch required by poorly-designed and overly-verbose languages like Java. But the IDE experience with a language that has decent type system like Swift is really great. It truly just feels like a more efficient way to consume documentation and write code. The analogy I would make is to texting on a numpad by repeatedly tapping a key vs. using T9 (assuming you’re in the right age range to have memories of texting on numpads). Sure, T9 might have guessed the wrong word a fraction of the time, but you never felt like it was dictating the direction of your thoughts or getting in your way. This all depends on the programming language, the package/project scaffolding, and the IDE being tightly integrated and very thoughtfully designed, but when it works it’s a real pleasure. While I still believe that all languages should be ergonomical to write without IDEs, I definitely underrated the experience.
- viceroyalbean 5y ago
  Even if an IDE is only a crutch for poorly designed languages, people still use those languages and an IDE is a useful tool in that scenario.

by zmmmmm 5y ago

winrid 5y ago

Actually, modern IDEs are super helpful with JS and Python, especially with type hints. I can export a function or class in a big JS project, go to any file, start typing the method name, and Webstorm will suggest the import. With JavaScript! Not as great as the Java integration but still pretty nice.

kitd 5y ago
Completely agree. I recently had to work on an unfamiliar JS codebase. After initially pulling my hair out trying to understand what objects were being passed where, I decided to define some types and parameters using JSDoc . VsCode picked them up instantly and it was like coding with a language server after that.
- winrid 5y ago
  Also recommend this to learn a new code base which will log every function call: https://www.npmjs.com/package/@phenomnomnominal/debug https://www.npmjs.com/package/@phenomnomnominal/debug
  - fuzzythinker 5y ago
    The repo has zero documentation. Do you use it on client, node, or both? Does it renders the calls in a tree?
    - winrid 5y ago
      Oh you're right, sorry. Here's the blog post the dev wrote: https://dev.to/phenomnominal/lazy-debug-logging-for-node-js-1221 https://dev.to/phenomnominal/lazy-debug-logging-for-node-js-... The idea is it logs every function call. Nice for picking up a new code base.

user3939382 5y ago

I use PhpStorm by JetBrains and am totally blown away by how powerful it is. It does all of the GP’s list and way more.

Aeolun 5y ago
Powerfull, but sloooow. I really want a faster Jetbrains IDE.
- twothamendment 5y ago
  Yes, if the next release didn't have a single new feature and was just a bunch of "x is faster, y is faster" - I'd call that a great release!
- user3939382 5y ago
  They're working on a new, faster underlying architecture with an IDE called Fleet. It looks like it may be a long-term foundational replacement for their other IDEs including PhpStorm. https://www.jetbrains.com/fleet/ https://www.jetbrains.com/fleet/
- native_samples 5y ago
  Usually when people have speed problems with Jetbrains IDEs it's one of two things: 1. Heap size is too small and it's GCing a lot without the user realizing. Open IDE VM options and double the -Xmx setting. 2. Using a 4k display on macOS. Try the new JBR17+Metal builds. They aren't shipped yet but switch it to using Metal to render. Makes it a lot faster.
  - Aeolun 5y ago
    Huh. Nr 2 is applicable to me. Will give it a try. Can’t see how it’ll fix my permanent indexing, but maybe it’ll at least feel faster. My heap size is already at 3GB, which I feel should be enough for opening a bunch of 5kb text files :/
    - 5y ago

stickfigure 5y ago

I cut my teeth with IDEs from the 90s that did a great job with C++. The article author is just ignorant.

wwalexander 5y ago

I agree; before I starting writing Swift, my only IDE experience was using Eclipse in college, and I really looked down on IDEs. I thought of them as a crutch required by poorly-designed and overly-verbose languages like Java. But the IDE experience with a language that has decent type system like Swift is really great. It truly just feels like a more efficient way to consume documentation and write code. The analogy I would make is to texting on a numpad by repeatedly tapping a key vs. using T9 (assuming you’re in the right age range to have memories of texting on numpads). Sure, T9 might have guessed the wrong word a fraction of the time, but you never felt like it was dictating the direction of your thoughts or getting in your way. This all depends on the programming language, the package/project scaffolding, and the IDE being tightly integrated and very thoughtfully designed, but when it works it’s a real pleasure. While I still believe that all languages should be ergonomical to write without IDEs, I definitely underrated the experience.

viceroyalbean 5y ago
Even if an IDE is only a crutch for poorly designed languages, people still use those languages and an IDE is a useful tool in that scenario.