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On the one hand, the kids had developed a system that excluded other kids from playing. Past generations would use this as an opportunity to teach sharing and t
by slowmovintarget 5y ago
On the one hand, the kids had developed a system that excluded other kids from playing. Past generations would use this as an opportunity to teach sharing and taking turns.
These teachers, on the other hand, took it as an opportunity to teach socialism and collectivism.
- a_shovel 5y agoI really want to know what you see the difference to be.
- slowmovintarget 5y agoSharing and taking turns is interpersonal generosity which works very well in the real world. Socialism and collectivism is enforced resource allocation typically requiring authoritarian rule which typically becomes oppressive when manifest in the real world.
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- ertjaet 5y agoexcept... it isn't? that's literally not what socialism or collectivism is. socialism is just the idea that "wealth" (or any substitute, like lego) should be owned by the community, and rules that bind that community should be made by a consensus of the members.
- WalterBright 5y agoIt's a fine idea. Too bad it always results in collapse or starvation and then collapse.
- ertjaet 5y agooh no we taught the kids to share and now they're starving and the classroom has collapsed
- WalterBright 5y agoGood thing they weren't teaching the kids to grow food. Watch what happens when the kids have to work to acquire the goodies, instead of it just being handed to them.
- a_shovel 5y agoThis is how that argument usually goes. "This policy proposal might be helpful. Is it? Let's see: The policy is socialist in nature + socialism killed millions in authoritarian communist regimes = this policy will kill millions. Therefore we must not allow the policy to succeed." I can't imagine how they ignore the flaws. People do this, without exaggeration, unconditionally for every socialist policy.
- WalterBright 5y agoTeaching kids a failed philosophy just sets them up for failure as adults. There's an infinite universe of things to teach - why not teach them something useful, something that works? > Therefore we must not allow the policy to succeed Oh, but we do allow it to succeed. There are no laws against communes and worker collectives in the US. Any group can form one. And many have - thousands of them. They all failed on their own. You and your like-minded colleagues are welcome to give it a try. Nobody is going to try to stop you. You can ask Bernie to supply the funds (he's rich) and be your leader. I only ask that you come back in a year and tell us how it went.
- a_shovel 5y ago> Oh, but we do allow it to succeed. You allowed the minimum wage to be increased? You allowed us to require companies to give maternity leave? You allowed us to expand SNAP benefits? If so, it's news to me.
- trs8080 5y agoSays you. Some of us believe that sharing and taking turns is a social obligation -- not a generosity -- necessary to living in a functioning society. Even more of us believe that a small minority should not be allowed to hoard all resources for themselves while others have nothing.
- slowmovintarget 5y agoI believe that sharing and taking turns is a social obligation, and why we should teach our children to share and take turns. I believe sharing and taking turns is necessary to a healthy, functioning society. I also believe that a small minority shouldn't hoard resources in general, but especially not when others have nothing. I don't believe that socialism and collectivism are suitable fixes to poverty or income disparity. Put another way, I suspect we share values but disagree on policy.
- dmonitor 5y agoSocial obligation enforced by what? The sword?
- trs8080 5y agoCooperation, empathy, and a sense of duty.
- bee_rider 5y agoThey are children. While they are still figuring out what good behavior look like, inevitably some of the behavior that we expect normal adults to exhibit will have to be imposed top-down.
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- cracrecry 5y agoWhen I was in Cuba, the official maximum salary you could earn(e.g as a doctor or teacher or baseball player) was something like $20. People from the party earned more than $3000 through outside deals. I had also been in Norway that people call socialist but is actually quite capitalistic. Most socialists have an idealization of what collectivism "should be". They compare "real capitalism"(an implementation of capitalism in reality) against an ideal socialism that have never existed and never will on the real world. It is only in their minds. Don't tell them about Venezuela or Cuba, China or URSS because they were not the real thing of course. But they don't admit that Capitalism could also be ideal and perfect.
- a_shovel 5y agoThis is article about teaching children to share Lego toys. If you want to compare it to communist autocracies, you'll need to at least tell us how they're at all related to each other.
- Breazy 5y ago> This is article about teaching children to share Lego toys. No, it's about using lego to teach teaching kids about capitalism and power structures. > Exploring power, ownership, and equity in an early childhood classroom > These children seemed to squirm at the implications of privilege, wealth, and power that “giving” holds. The children denied their power, framing it as benign and neutral, not something actively sought out and maintained. This early conversation helped us see more clearly the children’s contradictory thinking about power and authority, laying the groundwork for later exploration. Seriously, count how many times the article mentions "power", and count how many times it mentions "share".
- shkkmo 5y ago> No, it's about using lego to teach teaching kids about capitalism and power structures. There was nothing in there about teaching kids about capitalism. It was about exploring the kid's understanding of ownership and power, which are far more fundental concepts that predate capitalism by thousands of years.
- _dain_ 5y ago>On the one hand, the kids had developed a system that excluded other kids from playing. according to the teachers. they are not a reliable unbiased source here. they are seeing everything through a marxist lens of exploitation. but we don't have the kulak-kids' side of the story.
- notriddle 5y agoI've been in a foster home with a wide age span. Big kids hogging all the good pieces so that little kids don't get any checks out.
- cwkoss 5y agoWhat is the resolution you would have preferred? The rules that resulted after returning the legos seem pretty mild and unobjectionable to me. Classroom legos are a shared collective resource. Do you think there should have been some sort of meritocracy instead? --- For those that didn't read the article, here are the resulting rules: - All structures are public structures. Everyone can use all the Lego structures. But only the builder or people who have her or his permission are allowed to change a structure. - Lego people can be saved only by a “team” of kids, not by individuals. - All structures will be standard sizes.
- geoduck14 5y ago>For those that didn't read the article, here are the resulting rules: I didn't read the whole thing. I read through the kids being jerks, then the the town was destroyed, then the teachers started running experiments on the kids. That was the part that really got me. Teachers running unsanctioned experiments to emotionally provoke my children. That is unacceptable
- cwkoss 5y agoThe "experiment" you're referring to is playing a game designed to be unfair, to start a conversation about fairness? The vitriol people are projecting on such a benign game really makes me think society would be served well if many of the commenters here had participated in similar games as children themselves.
- Aeolun 5y ago> teach socialism and collectivism You mean (ridiculously simplified) taking turns and sharing? There’s nothing inherently different between these things.
- WalterBright 5y agoTaking turns and sharing is reasonable when there is a fixed pie, such as you're in a lifeboat with 3 others and a gallon of water, or you're in a classroom with a fixed supply of Legos. However, fixed pies almost never happen in a free market, and are not a valid model for a free market. I've seen socialists before using fixed pie economics in classrooms to extol the evils of free markets. The Monopoly game was invented by a socialist to show how bad free markets are. Of course, it's a fixed pie game.
- mwcampbell 5y agoIsn't the whole world a fixed pie? Sure, technological advances let us make more efficient use of our resources, but they're still finite.
- WalterBright 5y ago> Isn't the whole world a fixed pie? Nope. We use energy to transform valueless things into ever more valuable things.
- mwcampbell 5y agoSomeday our current cheap energy will run out, and we'll just have to divide up what we have left. At least, that's what I hear. People have been predicting this for a while, and it hasn't happened yet (at least where I live in the US), but that doesn't mean it won't.
- WalterBright 5y agoThe Earth is just a dot in the sphere around the Sun through which all the Sun's energy passes.
- 988747 5y ago[flagged]
- munk-a 5y agoIf only we could all get together and do something about that. It might take a monumental effort but if we all work together we can eliminate Socialism in our lifetimes! And, if for whatever reason, we fail - we can always teach our children how evil Socialism is so that they can carry on the fight to oppose indoctrination.
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]