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Loans (interest bearing ones) have been a known parasitic and immoral practice for thousands of years as they're prohibited in the three major religions (Islam

by azth 5y ago

Loans (interest bearing ones) have been a known parasitic and immoral practice for thousands of years as they're prohibited in the three major religions (Islam Judaism, and Christianity). The sooner we get rid of for profit loans the better.

chii 5y ago
Not all loans are parasitic - and i dont care for morality arguments since different cultures and belief systems produces different moral systems, and hence not a very objective method of measurement. Loans that produce higher profit than the interest payment is a good (aka, non-parasitic) loan. The student loans _could_ be good, or could be parasitic - it depends on the degree. Unfortunately, because of gov't guarantees and backing, the risk of the loans is offloaded to the taxpayers, but the profits taken by the private institutes. This is what makes it parasitic in most cases. If a private entity is not willing to make the loan, then the gov't shouldn't either. Then naturally, only the non-parasitic loans would be given.
- azth 5y ago
  The only non-parasitic loans are those given at 0% interest, which is inline with the three religions. Of course the follow up question is how would you run a bank or business that profits from loans? The answer is: you don't. Society is strictly better off without such parasites. There are other ways for true risk sharing such as paying someone with a business idea cash in exchange for a portion of his business. If it succeeds, both parties benefit, if it doesn't, both parties lose. > and hence not a very objective method of measurement. It is very possible to measure the outcome of such system. Look at our current financial system today how corrupt it is, and compare it to the financial laws that Islam defines and the financial health of the resulting societies in each. Wall St would have to be shut down because of the immoral and parasitic practices it engages in (shorting, selling what you don't own, options, selling debt for debt, loans and mortgages, money printing (we know who's in bed with the fed) etc. etc.). The problem is that people keep believing they can patch the system to make it work out, but in actuality, the system only benefits a select few at the top, while everyone else suffers. The end is not going to be pretty when it all comes crashing down.
  - imtringued 5y ago
    Ancient egypt had grain banks. Grains tend to spoil at a rate of 2-4%. A loan with 0% interest is actually profitable because you get fresh grain with no loss at the end. You don't have to worry how to store your physical wealth. Money lets us pretend that society must pay the cost of spoiled grains by replacing them with fresh grains free of charge. So people must constantly raise prices or stop working.
- imtringued 5y ago
  In principle there is nothing wrong with loans. The problem is that people can simply hold cash for free. They demand +x% (liquidity preference) on top of the guaranteed 0% so the market interest rate never actually falls to zero. Central banks have to simulate negative interest rates via quantitative easing it is completely backwards.
  - azth 5y ago
    > In principle there is nothing wrong with loans. Interest free loans, yes. Interest bearing loans? They're immoral and parasitic. > The problem is that people can simply hold cash for free. Islam solved this with Zakat.
imtringued 5y ago
That would require a demurrage currency to eliminate liquidity preference.

by azth 5y ago

chii 5y ago

Not all loans are parasitic - and i dont care for morality arguments since different cultures and belief systems produces different moral systems, and hence not a very objective method of measurement. Loans that produce higher profit than the interest payment is a good (aka, non-parasitic) loan. The student loans _could_ be good, or could be parasitic - it depends on the degree. Unfortunately, because of gov't guarantees and backing, the risk of the loans is offloaded to the taxpayers, but the profits taken by the private institutes. This is what makes it parasitic in most cases. If a private entity is not willing to make the loan, then the gov't shouldn't either. Then naturally, only the non-parasitic loans would be given.

azth 5y ago
The only non-parasitic loans are those given at 0% interest, which is inline with the three religions. Of course the follow up question is how would you run a bank or business that profits from loans? The answer is: you don't. Society is strictly better off without such parasites. There are other ways for true risk sharing such as paying someone with a business idea cash in exchange for a portion of his business. If it succeeds, both parties benefit, if it doesn't, both parties lose. > and hence not a very objective method of measurement. It is very possible to measure the outcome of such system. Look at our current financial system today how corrupt it is, and compare it to the financial laws that Islam defines and the financial health of the resulting societies in each. Wall St would have to be shut down because of the immoral and parasitic practices it engages in (shorting, selling what you don't own, options, selling debt for debt, loans and mortgages, money printing (we know who's in bed with the fed) etc. etc.). The problem is that people keep believing they can patch the system to make it work out, but in actuality, the system only benefits a select few at the top, while everyone else suffers. The end is not going to be pretty when it all comes crashing down.
- imtringued 5y ago
  Ancient egypt had grain banks. Grains tend to spoil at a rate of 2-4%. A loan with 0% interest is actually profitable because you get fresh grain with no loss at the end. You don't have to worry how to store your physical wealth. Money lets us pretend that society must pay the cost of spoiled grains by replacing them with fresh grains free of charge. So people must constantly raise prices or stop working.
imtringued 5y ago
In principle there is nothing wrong with loans. The problem is that people can simply hold cash for free. They demand +x% (liquidity preference) on top of the guaranteed 0% so the market interest rate never actually falls to zero. Central banks have to simulate negative interest rates via quantitative easing it is completely backwards.
- azth 5y ago
  > In principle there is nothing wrong with loans. Interest free loans, yes. Interest bearing loans? They're immoral and parasitic. > The problem is that people can simply hold cash for free. Islam solved this with Zakat.

imtringued 5y ago

That would require a demurrage currency to eliminate liquidity preference.