5 ms·

I noticed this in China too. Older male expats with local wives or sex partners. Some of them were on their second or third local wife. There's a whole culture

I noticed this in China too. Older male expats with local wives or sex partners. Some of them were on their second or third local wife. There's a whole culture that develops around it of young women who make it a goal to try find a western husband, either for the money, or for the convenient foreign citizenship. Unfortunately this creates some resentment of expats amongst the local men, and gives expats in general a bit of a poor reputation.

seanmcdirmid 5y ago
Maybe a few decades ago? Today it is more like a rich old balding Shanghainese guy with a young Ukrainian model wife.
notch656a 5y ago
Maybe I'm jus non-traditional but I don't understand the poor reputation. Consensual relationship marriage, who cares why the parties consented so long as it wasn't done under force? It's hilarious going to a certain 3rd world country with my wife (where she was born). My wife is dual citizen (gained citizenship and good career before I met her) and makes more than I do. In this country impoverished women often marry rich westerners. When we go people assume I'm her sugar-daddy/visa-husband. The odd thing to me is I don't see our relationship as any more or less valid, who the fuck cares that we married for a different reason than someone else? Also in many nations marriage is as much about connections as it is anything else.
- alisonatwork 5y ago
  In China there is already a gender imbalance in the favor of men thanks to the one child policy, which means straight young men can struggle to find a romantic partner. When older, richer foreigners come along and snap up local women - who are already in short supply - it definitely breeds resentment. Tangled up with that is the existing problem of human trafficking, where brides are shipped in from Cambodia, Vietnam, Myanmar etc. It's easy for an increasingly nationalistic culture to blame foreigners for exacerbating these issues.
  - 908B64B197 5y ago
    > It's easy for an increasingly nationalistic culture to blame foreigners for exacerbating these issues. But they are the ones who created the gender imbalance. It's completely self-imposed.
    - DangitBobby 5y ago
      Really? The 30-something Chinese guy who's delivered packages his whole life and has no impact on policy created this scenario?
  - notch656a 5y ago
    I can see how that is the case in China. My wife is from a country where there is no shortage of women. Probably 90% of the people speak passable English, so there is no language barrier. I don't see a lot of hostile resentment to be honest. The presumption is more of a practical and amusing one. Many of the villages are funded in part by remittance from US and this country was saved by US from literal mass rape by Japanese in WWII and unlike other countries we never seriously fucked them afterwards so the people overall are very cheery in dealing with Americans in my experience.
    - ciguy 5y ago
      You can just say the Philippines, not sure why you are obscuring the country name.
      - notch656a 5y ago
        Trying not to prejudice the audience, I know that anyone familiar with the country will know what it is. Not really trying to obscure it.
      - sangnoir 5y ago
        The Philipines is has a long and notorious history of mail-order brides[1]. Parent's incredulity on peoples attitudes rings a little hollow when that's explicitly spelled out. 1. The term predates the world-wide web to a time when women in developing counties would be in a literal catalog, and correspondence was done via mail.
- deltaonefour 5y ago
  It's a valid assumption because it's rare for a woman to make more than the man, and it's especially common for women in those countries to seek foreign sugar daddies, I don't understand why you think it's mysterious. It would be mysterious if nobody assumed that. >The odd thing to me is I don't see our relationship as any more or less valid, who the fuck cares that we married for a different reason than someone else? It's only odd to you because you're not affected by it. Men in local populations have a MUCH HARDER time finding wives that are local. When a foreigner jumps in and snatches up one while barely speaking the language it's a little "wtf." Let's put things into reality. The fact of the matter is women marry up. They are attracted to men with higher status. Globally, white men occupy this status. Not officially mind you, no white man or person of any race would say this, but subconsciously that's the hierarchy. That's why white men, if they date women of other races often have a much easier time. Women everywhere tend to just put white men on that pedestal. In terms of status, a white man can get better results if they date another woman of a different class and race then they would if they dated some women of the same race and status. That's reality. The statistics on dating sites verify this racial phenomenon. So of course if the tables were turned and rich asian and black men came stateside and started taking away white women the resentment would exist in the other direction. And such resentment does sort of exist (not in the dating scene) in terms of employment and jobs. It's normal there's nothing wrong or right about the situation, but it is what it is.
  - notch656a 5y ago
    >In terms of status, a white man can get better results if they date another woman of a different class and race then they would if they dated some women of the same race and status. Asians are indisputably higher earners in US than white, on average. If anything it would make more sense that people view it that someone from an Asian country such as my wife married down and not up, if we're viewing through the race lenses you are viewing things through.
    - deltaonefour 5y ago
      >Asians are indisputably higher earners in US than white, on average. This is true but it is not the factored into the subconscious hierarchy. Globally and locally White people are viewed as the top. Additionally, you should realize that the average income for asians here is highly skewed by a few top earners.
- maerF0x0 5y ago
  > who cares why the parties consented This is a very new cultural assumption (something like the 1960s ?) Prior to that marriage was a lot less about contemporary concepts like "emotional love", "my forever best friend" etc. Vietnam still has a very old religious under pinning (idk the exact definitions, but something like daoist - bhuddist - ancestor worship). Marriage and family means something very different there than in the US meaning (nearly formless these days)
  - notch656a 5y ago
    In some sense I think they have it right. The chemical induced feeling of love lasts a couple years at best. The rest is about relationship, bonding, family, duty and responsibility - IMO. I would wager those who don't marry for love but make a pact to form a working relationship still get most the upsides of marriage.
- vecinu 5y ago
  I'm surprised nobody posted this very famous video of a British man and his Asian girlfriend getting harassed by a local in Taipei, Taiwan 7 years ago. [1] The aggressor ended up getting in trouble and appeared on the local news but I'm sure a lot of people shared his toxic views. [1] https://youtu.be/zagZ_ys76SA https://youtu.be/zagZ_ys76SA

seanmcdirmid 5y ago

Maybe a few decades ago? Today it is more like a rich old balding Shanghainese guy with a young Ukrainian model wife.

notch656a 5y ago

Maybe I'm jus non-traditional but I don't understand the poor reputation. Consensual relationship marriage, who cares why the parties consented so long as it wasn't done under force? It's hilarious going to a certain 3rd world country with my wife (where she was born). My wife is dual citizen (gained citizenship and good career before I met her) and makes more than I do. In this country impoverished women often marry rich westerners. When we go people assume I'm her sugar-daddy/visa-husband. The odd thing to me is I don't see our relationship as any more or less valid, who the fuck cares that we married for a different reason than someone else? Also in many nations marriage is as much about connections as it is anything else.

alisonatwork 5y ago
In China there is already a gender imbalance in the favor of men thanks to the one child policy, which means straight young men can struggle to find a romantic partner. When older, richer foreigners come along and snap up local women - who are already in short supply - it definitely breeds resentment. Tangled up with that is the existing problem of human trafficking, where brides are shipped in from Cambodia, Vietnam, Myanmar etc. It's easy for an increasingly nationalistic culture to blame foreigners for exacerbating these issues.
- 908B64B197 5y ago
  > It's easy for an increasingly nationalistic culture to blame foreigners for exacerbating these issues. But they are the ones who created the gender imbalance. It's completely self-imposed.
  - DangitBobby 5y ago
    Really? The 30-something Chinese guy who's delivered packages his whole life and has no impact on policy created this scenario?
- notch656a 5y ago
  I can see how that is the case in China. My wife is from a country where there is no shortage of women. Probably 90% of the people speak passable English, so there is no language barrier. I don't see a lot of hostile resentment to be honest. The presumption is more of a practical and amusing one. Many of the villages are funded in part by remittance from US and this country was saved by US from literal mass rape by Japanese in WWII and unlike other countries we never seriously fucked them afterwards so the people overall are very cheery in dealing with Americans in my experience.
  - ciguy 5y ago
    You can just say the Philippines, not sure why you are obscuring the country name.
    - notch656a 5y ago
      Trying not to prejudice the audience, I know that anyone familiar with the country will know what it is. Not really trying to obscure it.
    - sangnoir 5y ago
      The Philipines is has a long and notorious history of mail-order brides[1]. Parent's incredulity on peoples attitudes rings a little hollow when that's explicitly spelled out. 1. The term predates the world-wide web to a time when women in developing counties would be in a literal catalog, and correspondence was done via mail.
deltaonefour 5y ago
It's a valid assumption because it's rare for a woman to make more than the man, and it's especially common for women in those countries to seek foreign sugar daddies, I don't understand why you think it's mysterious. It would be mysterious if nobody assumed that. >The odd thing to me is I don't see our relationship as any more or less valid, who the fuck cares that we married for a different reason than someone else? It's only odd to you because you're not affected by it. Men in local populations have a MUCH HARDER time finding wives that are local. When a foreigner jumps in and snatches up one while barely speaking the language it's a little "wtf." Let's put things into reality. The fact of the matter is women marry up. They are attracted to men with higher status. Globally, white men occupy this status. Not officially mind you, no white man or person of any race would say this, but subconsciously that's the hierarchy. That's why white men, if they date women of other races often have a much easier time. Women everywhere tend to just put white men on that pedestal. In terms of status, a white man can get better results if they date another woman of a different class and race then they would if they dated some women of the same race and status. That's reality. The statistics on dating sites verify this racial phenomenon. So of course if the tables were turned and rich asian and black men came stateside and started taking away white women the resentment would exist in the other direction. And such resentment does sort of exist (not in the dating scene) in terms of employment and jobs. It's normal there's nothing wrong or right about the situation, but it is what it is.
- notch656a 5y ago
  >In terms of status, a white man can get better results if they date another woman of a different class and race then they would if they dated some women of the same race and status. Asians are indisputably higher earners in US than white, on average. If anything it would make more sense that people view it that someone from an Asian country such as my wife married down and not up, if we're viewing through the race lenses you are viewing things through.
  - deltaonefour 5y ago
    >Asians are indisputably higher earners in US than white, on average. This is true but it is not the factored into the subconscious hierarchy. Globally and locally White people are viewed as the top. Additionally, you should realize that the average income for asians here is highly skewed by a few top earners.
maerF0x0 5y ago
> who cares why the parties consented This is a very new cultural assumption (something like the 1960s ?) Prior to that marriage was a lot less about contemporary concepts like "emotional love", "my forever best friend" etc. Vietnam still has a very old religious under pinning (idk the exact definitions, but something like daoist - bhuddist - ancestor worship). Marriage and family means something very different there than in the US meaning (nearly formless these days)
- notch656a 5y ago
  In some sense I think they have it right. The chemical induced feeling of love lasts a couple years at best. The rest is about relationship, bonding, family, duty and responsibility - IMO. I would wager those who don't marry for love but make a pact to form a working relationship still get most the upsides of marriage.
vecinu 5y ago
I'm surprised nobody posted this very famous video of a British man and his Asian girlfriend getting harassed by a local in Taipei, Taiwan 7 years ago. [1] The aggressor ended up getting in trouble and appeared on the local news but I'm sure a lot of people shared his toxic views. [1] https://youtu.be/zagZ_ys76SA https://youtu.be/zagZ_ys76SA