12 ms·

Airbnb wants to GPS track you also when not using the app

• mguerville 5y ago
  Permissions creep is rampant in the industry, apps all start with a pretty user friendly set of permissions and over time the ToS/ToUs and permissions get increasingly offensive. The other similar pattern to this is decreasing "SLAs" like how Uber and Lyft are now often misrepresenting the wait time to get a ride (driver is 3 minutes out = at least 7 minutes), and if they had started that way they'd never have gained such widepread adoption in the first place.
  • babyshake 5y ago
    The worst part is how within the companies, these changes are always pitched as somehow being user-friendly with a contortion of logic.
  • troyvit 5y ago
    That's the terrible thing about a "reasonable expectation of privacy."[0] Permission creep keeps pushing back what "reasonable" means. From the findlaw article: "This means that the disclosure or discovery of a private matter must have happened when the plaintiff was in a place or situation in which the average person would be offended at being intruded upon." So now we shouldn't be offended if apps use our location data even when we're not using those apps. [0] https://www.findlaw.com/injury/torts-and-personal-injuries/what-is-the--reasonable-expectation-of-privacy--.html https://www.findlaw.com/injury/torts-and-personal-injuries/w...
  • radicaldreamer 5y ago
    They did start that way... they've been doing this for years.
• judge2020 5y ago
  Odd that Apple let them slide through with that description. For example, Universal Studios Florida has a more descriptive > Will be used to orient the park map to your location, enable in-park features during your visit, and tailor informational, marketing, and promotional messages in or out of the park. The Disney World app has > 'While Using' means we may use your location when the app is open to... provide you with valuable updates and offers... 'Always Allow' will allow your location to be used for some of the above purposes even when you do not have the app open So if these big players must precisely say "offers" or "promotional messages", I don't see why airbnb wouldn't have to.
  • judge2020 5y ago
    I came back and now realize that this is just what's in their privacy policy. I have no idea what the location reasoning is within the AirBNB iOS app's prompt that developers have to fill out.
• yupyup54133 5y ago
  I doubt this is the case. More than likely Apple changed one of their IPhone API calls without notice and so this TOS change is a legal stopgap until the AirBNB devs can refactor the code to account for this unexpected API change.
• HatchedLake721 5y ago
  Steve Jobs words 12 years later are still very relevant today https://youtu.be/39iKLwlUqBo https://youtu.be/39iKLwlUqBo I just want to thank Apple for pushing this agenda forward, introducing things I believe Google would never do themselves first unless pressured. I still remember Apple introducing “track me while using the app only” in a new iOS years ago that stopped companies hoarding live geolocation of every app user. And we still get new bits and bobs every major iOS release. In just last few years we found out apps that unnecessarily scanned for our network devices or used clipboards for no apparent reason. Keep them coming.
  • the_gipsy 5y ago
    Yet apple always aggressively pushed their native app platform over web protocols, which would allow much more privacy.
    • daniel_iversen 5y ago
      I don't think there's anything stopping web browsers to have the same level of privacy features as the apps, is there? Apple, Google and Microsoft owns both the OS and the browser, so there's really no excuse I feel.
      • endless1234 5y ago
        GP's talking about Apple making PWAs unviable on iOS.
        • ghaff 5y ago
          In what way are they unviable? Because it's not as easy (which is not actually easy) to discover and make money? That seems a choice one makes.
          • sneak 5y ago
            Notifications. Notifications are why they are unviable.
• gruez 5y ago
  Is this really an issue when both iOS and Android support "only when using app" permissions for location? If you don't want give them access to background location, then don't grant the permission.
  • jozvolskyef 5y ago
    You can't turn off IP-based geolocation. To play the devil's advocate, they might just be using this to revoke stolen sessions when the same session makes requests from different locations.
    • paxys 5y ago
      > You can't turn off IP-based geolocation They also can't get your IP address when you are not using the site, so it is the same thing.
      • jozvolskyef 5y ago
        Apps can make background requests.
        • tomhoward 5y ago
          Not if you turn off location permissions and background app refresh.
          • jozvolskyef 5y ago
            I've never been asked for a background refresh permission on an Android. Is that an iOS thing?
            • tomhoward 5y ago
              It looks like it's just something the app developer can turn on, and it will be enabled without having to ask the user for permission. But you can turn it off: https://www.asurion.com/connect/tech-tips/conserve-phone-data-by-turning-off-the-background-refresh/ https://www.asurion.com/connect/tech-tips/conserve-phone-dat...
• jrockway 5y ago
  Wouldn't you just put that in your privacy policy so when some bug makes it in (perhaps in upstream code or the OS itself) that causes location tracking to continue happening when the app is closed, you're not open to liability? It is difficult to discern "paranoid" from "evil" when reading legal documents. Unfortunately being paranoid makes them look evil. Maybe they are, maybe they aren't, but there is more than one way of looking at this.
  • malikNF 5y ago
    >Wouldn't you just put that in your privacy policy so when some bug makes it in Well by that reasoning, all legal agreements should just say, "we are not responsible for anything, we take what we want don't, you can't sue us".
    • CPLX 5y ago
      I mean, I’ve seen a lot of legal agreements like that.
    • snotrockets 5y ago
      That's basically what most EULA read, only in many more words
  • babypuncher 5y ago
    It seems difficult for something like that to accidentally happen, seeing as background location tracking requires explicit permission requested through APIs provided by the OS.
    • porlune 5y ago
      I wonder if the fear is that you might end up having less than ethical (rogue?) employees that might think they're helping the company by using some form of workaround to track users. I'm not sure if that's overly paranoid or just the right amount of paranoia, but I can imagine the fear.
      • 5y ago
• jcims 5y ago
  This appears to be boilerplate - https://www.google.com/search?q=%22Geo-location+Information.+Such+as+precise+or+approximate+location+determined+from+your+IP+address+or+mobile+device%E2%80%99s+GPS+depending+on+your+device+settings.+We+may+also+collect+this+information+when+you%E2%80%99re+not+using+the+app+if+you+enable+this+through+your+settings+or+device+permissions.%22&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8 https://www.google.com/search?q=%22Geo-location+Information....
  • gitowiec 5y ago
    Funny thing. Or not. But Google results page displays different short texts for every page. Is it just me or that changed? I remember that every page result should display same briefing
  • derimagia 5y ago
    Using google to limit the results by date, it looks like Airbnb was the second to use the text, a few days after "WeChalet" https://www.google.com/search?q=before%3A2020-10-31+%22Geo-location+Information.+Such+as+precise+or+approximate+location+determined+from+your+IP+address+or+mobile+device%E2%80%99s+GPS+depending+on+your+device+settings.+We+may+also+collect+this+information+when+you%E2%80%99re+not+using+the+app+if+you+enable+this+through+your+settings+or+device+permissions.%22 https://www.google.com/search?q=before%3A2020-10-31+%22Geo-l...
• everdrive 5y ago
  Yet another reminder to install as few apps as possible. I know it can be a little trite, but I do mean it earnestly. People say they care about privacy, but then they install applications which collect this sort of data. Not using the AirBnB app hardly counts as a hardship.
  • jimbob45 5y ago
    My personal strategy is to keep an old phone around that I load up with apps I need. When I’m not using it (which is 99% of the time), it stays powered off (usually with an empty battery) in my closet.
  • amelius 5y ago
    Except there is an ever-increasing pressure to install more apps. Even governments partake in this. Soon you can't have a normal life without installing at least a dozen of apps.
    • kQq9oHeAz6wLLS 5y ago
      > Soon you can't have a normal life without installing at least a dozen of apps. To whom it may concern, Please unsubscribe me from your dystopian hellscape. Very truly yours, GonnaThrowAwayMySmartPhoneAndLiveOffGrid
      • ISL 5y ago
        Please submit your property taxes through our convenient online filing portal.
        • ghaff 5y ago
          You almost certainly have the right to mail a paper check for most things. While I tend to have my bank do it for most things it’s absolutely an option in general. I certainly still use check for a lot of purposes in the US.
• deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
• deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
• princevegeta89 5y ago
  How does it work with the new permissions systems coming to mobile OS?
• pyrophane 5y ago
  Afaik the only way they could do this without explicit permission is by tracking the IP you are connecting from and determining your approximate location from that, which isn't going to be all that accurate.
• radicaldreamer 5y ago
  Uber did this in their iOS app a few years ago, requiring users to set location tracking to "Always" and saying it was due to a technical limitation. This was prior to the series of scandals which included tracking journalists and public officials came to light.
• stevespang 5y ago
• werber 5y ago
  The only app I have that really tracks my background information is Pokémon go, because I’m an idiot and my location gets me farther in the game. It took me approving background location attempts that Happened about fifteen times in each instance over a day or two period for my iPhone to stop. I think you’re basically fine as long as you use common sense?
• brewdad 5y ago
  I'm on iOS. So, no. Problem solved.
• newaccount74 5y ago
  I stopped using Strava when they changed it so it doesn't work anymore with the "while using the app" mode. It's odd that a paid app still wants to stalk you - apparently they think that their people movement data is more valuable than their fitness business. The fitness part is apparently just an elaborate ruse to get you to install their app... (The fact that Apple lets this fly shows yet again that their App store policies are not for protecting the user, they are just for protecting Apple's revenue stream)
  • mns 5y ago
    What do you mean? I just checked now and the app is in only while using mode on my phone and it's perfectly fine. But in the same time I use a different sports watch and sync everything from there to Strava, so I don't use their apps for any direct activities. The use location always might be because of the beacon feature, which can be disabled probably.
    • newaccount74 5y ago
      Maybe they changed it, but after an update the Strava app refused to start activities in the "only when using" mode. I stopped using Strava at that point, so I can't say what it's like now.
• stephenboyd 5y ago
  I just looked through the app list of my iPhone’s location privacy settings and every app has either “never”, “while using”, or “when shared”. I never opt in to always sharing my location with apps that I’m not actively using and iOS makes that easy for me.
• GoodbyeMrChips 5y ago
  Tracking you and storing the data without good reason and without up-front transparency is very clearly a GDPR breach. When will these idiots learn that you simply cannot go gathering personal data on the off chance you might find it useful or sell it. Gathering unnecessary personal data isn't an asset, it is a liability. And so it should be. https://ico.org.uk/for-organisations/guide-to-data-protection/guide-to-the-general-data-protection-regulation-gdpr/principles/ https://ico.org.uk/for-organisations/guide-to-data-protectio...