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U.S. to send 3k additional troops to Poland, officials say

21 points by underscore_ku 5y ago

sschueller 5y ago
Can the US please stop starting another war? How is this going to end? No matter if Putin is a psychopath, this is not the way to deal with it. Someone needs to be the bigger man. This is like two children arguing. I thought the US would be more adult. Where is de-escalation and diplomacy? The US foreign policy is like their police force.
- chitowneats 5y ago
  Well? What do you have to say today Herr Schueller?
- chitowneats 5y ago
  The U.S. has been involved in de-escalation and diplomacy over the current Russian military build-up for months. Troop deployments to eastern NATO member states are happening as a last resort in an attempt to deter further Russian aggression, given that the invasion of Ukraine appears imminent.
- dragonwriter 5y ago
  > Can the US please stop starting another war? The US isn't starting a war. > No matter if Putin is a psychopath, this is not the way to deal with it. Yes, securing our allies against the madman is the way to deal with it, and contain any escalation of the ongoing (and it is ongoing, with Russia already having and invaded large portions of Ukraine) war b/w Russia and Ukraine.
  - sschueller 5y ago
    As a Swiss I am appalled by this stance of showing force by the US instead of de-escalation the situation. I see zero de-escalation from the US. The US press seems "Geil für Krieg" (horny for war), it's disgusting. The only ones trying to prevent this war with at least some diplomacy is Germany and France. What the US is doing is the same as before the Iraq war and it is the wrong thing.
    - chitowneats 5y ago
      Allowing Putin to march right through Warsaw on the way to Berlin is not the right thing. The Germans and the French are incredibly lucky to have their defense and continued independence financed by such a distant power. Most people on Earth aren't so lucky as to have the Swiss Alps as a natural deterrent to foreign aggression.
    - nradov 5y ago
      What specific sort of de-escalation would you propose? Should the US offer, let's say, 10% more of Ukraine's territory to Russia if they agree to pull back their invasion force?
    - dragonwriter 5y ago
      > As a Swiss I am appalled by this stance of showing force by the US instead of de-escalation the situation. The deployment of small numbers of troops (the total deployed by the US to Eastern Europe as a response to the crisis is less than 1/30 the Russian deployment on the borders of Ukraine) is not a show of force (it is a show of commitment that the US cannot avoid being engaged should Russia invade beyond Ukraine into NATO countries in the region, but nothing more; it's a tripwire force.) > I see zero de-escalation from the US You aren't looking very hard. > The US press seems "Geil für Krieg" (horny for war), I have no idea what you are basing this on, that's certainly not the US press I see in America. > The only ones trying to prevent this war with at least some diplomacy is Germany and France. Germany has been giving more direct aid to Ukraine than the US, the idea that they are de-escalating while the US defensive deployment to NATO allies outside of Ukraine is escalation is...tortured, at best. > What the US is doing is the same as before the Iraq war No, it's not. No one in the US has called for offensive war (as was done on Iraq) or even defensive war in case of Russian action against Ukraine. The US has even openly stated that it will not even use it's military to evacuate US citizens in the event of an invasion by Russia, because to do so would be “world war”. It has threatened no action against Russia for merely continuing it's aggressive posture and it's current invasion and occupation of Ukraine, and only economic sanctions on the event of a total invasion of the rest of Ukraine. It has put forward no UN resolution, nor has it hinted that if the Security Council (where it called a discussion meeting but did not attempt to push any concrete action) failed to move to a resolution due to veto it would activate Uniting for Peace to try bypass the UNSC and bring resolution through the UNGA. The US is pursuing a policy of diplomacy with military forces only deployed in a manner to deter aggression beyond Ukraine, with no attempt to deploy capacity that would do anything to alter outcomes in Ukraine, much less take aggressive action against Russia. It couldn't be more different than Iraq in 2003.
- emptysongglass 5y ago
  Just to be crystal clear: NATO is a defensive coalition. The only aggressor in this conflict is Russia who can turn their troops back any time they like. We're talking about a person who has less than 48 ours ago threatened nuclear Armageddon on the entire world. [1] You do not give in to the insane demands of such a person just as you do not give in to the tantrums of a child. [1] https://v.redd.it/whu6txat3wg81 https://v.redd.it/whu6txat3wg81
  - mytailorisrich 5y ago
    I'm not trying to support either side here but I find a bit odd that Russia is depicted as the 'bad guy' for keeping troops within its borders while the US are depicted as the 'good guys' for moving troops abroad and next to Russia and for threatening a pipeline between Russia and Germany. It might also be worth pointing out that Ukraine is not in NATO. The whole situation feels strange to me and I can't help but thinking that a lot more is happening than we are told or made to believe. Edit: the US seem the most active and effectively are the ones warmongering and it's hard to imagine that they care so much about Ukraine. But looking at Russian pipelines and China's Belt and Road perhaps they actually aim at creating a clash and a new iron curtain to prevent growing links between Europe and Russia/China in order to keep control of Europe.
    - edmcnulty101 5y ago
      Holy cow. I have the same exact feelings. Just feels really strange.
    - shrimp_emoji 5y ago
      >the US are depicted as the 'good guys' for moving troops abroad and next to Russia and for threatening a pipeline between Russia and Germany. NATO is a big alliance. Poland is in NATO. The U.S. is the strongest military power by a large margin. Russia is amassing troops next to a country they've already invaded (see Crimea). I don't see the dissonance here.
    - AnimalMuppet 5y ago
      Russia is "keeping troops within its borders" only if you ignore the 30,000 Russian troops currently in Belarus. And "they're within Russia's borders", but there sure seem to be a large number of them really close to the border of Ukraine. That raises concerns. Like, it's really easy to go from "all these troops are within our borders" to "all these troops are halfway to Kiev" within 48 hours. It's a force posture from which the Russian troops could trivially launch an invasion, and it's unprecedented since the end of the Cold War. That's concerning, at a minimum.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- sorokod 5y ago
  Why would you say that Putin is a psychopath? Looks like he made some calculations, compared the outcomes and seems to favour aggression (those extra 3k are unlikely to change the calculus). By someone needs to be a bigger man, do you mean the people of Ukraine? In what way should they be bigger?
- AnimalMuppet 5y ago
  Not opposing the psychopath with force doesn't always work out very well, either. We don't want another "peace in our time".
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]

21 points by underscore_ku 5y ago

Can the US please stop starting another war? How is this going to end? No matter if Putin is a psychopath, this is not the way to deal with it. Someone needs to be the bigger man. This is like two children arguing. I thought the US would be more adult. Where is de-escalation and diplomacy? The US foreign policy is like their police force.

chitowneats 5y ago
Well? What do you have to say today Herr Schueller?
chitowneats 5y ago
The U.S. has been involved in de-escalation and diplomacy over the current Russian military build-up for months. Troop deployments to eastern NATO member states are happening as a last resort in an attempt to deter further Russian aggression, given that the invasion of Ukraine appears imminent.
dragonwriter 5y ago
> Can the US please stop starting another war? The US isn't starting a war. > No matter if Putin is a psychopath, this is not the way to deal with it. Yes, securing our allies against the madman is the way to deal with it, and contain any escalation of the ongoing (and it is ongoing, with Russia already having and invaded large portions of Ukraine) war b/w Russia and Ukraine.
- sschueller 5y ago
  As a Swiss I am appalled by this stance of showing force by the US instead of de-escalation the situation. I see zero de-escalation from the US. The US press seems "Geil für Krieg" (horny for war), it's disgusting. The only ones trying to prevent this war with at least some diplomacy is Germany and France. What the US is doing is the same as before the Iraq war and it is the wrong thing.
  - chitowneats 5y ago
    Allowing Putin to march right through Warsaw on the way to Berlin is not the right thing. The Germans and the French are incredibly lucky to have their defense and continued independence financed by such a distant power. Most people on Earth aren't so lucky as to have the Swiss Alps as a natural deterrent to foreign aggression.
  - nradov 5y ago
    What specific sort of de-escalation would you propose? Should the US offer, let's say, 10% more of Ukraine's territory to Russia if they agree to pull back their invasion force?
  - dragonwriter 5y ago
    > As a Swiss I am appalled by this stance of showing force by the US instead of de-escalation the situation. The deployment of small numbers of troops (the total deployed by the US to Eastern Europe as a response to the crisis is less than 1/30 the Russian deployment on the borders of Ukraine) is not a show of force (it is a show of commitment that the US cannot avoid being engaged should Russia invade beyond Ukraine into NATO countries in the region, but nothing more; it's a tripwire force.) > I see zero de-escalation from the US You aren't looking very hard. > The US press seems "Geil für Krieg" (horny for war), I have no idea what you are basing this on, that's certainly not the US press I see in America. > The only ones trying to prevent this war with at least some diplomacy is Germany and France. Germany has been giving more direct aid to Ukraine than the US, the idea that they are de-escalating while the US defensive deployment to NATO allies outside of Ukraine is escalation is...tortured, at best. > What the US is doing is the same as before the Iraq war No, it's not. No one in the US has called for offensive war (as was done on Iraq) or even defensive war in case of Russian action against Ukraine. The US has even openly stated that it will not even use it's military to evacuate US citizens in the event of an invasion by Russia, because to do so would be “world war”. It has threatened no action against Russia for merely continuing it's aggressive posture and it's current invasion and occupation of Ukraine, and only economic sanctions on the event of a total invasion of the rest of Ukraine. It has put forward no UN resolution, nor has it hinted that if the Security Council (where it called a discussion meeting but did not attempt to push any concrete action) failed to move to a resolution due to veto it would activate Uniting for Peace to try bypass the UNSC and bring resolution through the UNGA. The US is pursuing a policy of diplomacy with military forces only deployed in a manner to deter aggression beyond Ukraine, with no attempt to deploy capacity that would do anything to alter outcomes in Ukraine, much less take aggressive action against Russia. It couldn't be more different than Iraq in 2003.
emptysongglass 5y ago
Just to be crystal clear: NATO is a defensive coalition. The only aggressor in this conflict is Russia who can turn their troops back any time they like. We're talking about a person who has less than 48 ours ago threatened nuclear Armageddon on the entire world. [1] You do not give in to the insane demands of such a person just as you do not give in to the tantrums of a child. [1] https://v.redd.it/whu6txat3wg81 https://v.redd.it/whu6txat3wg81
- mytailorisrich 5y ago
  I'm not trying to support either side here but I find a bit odd that Russia is depicted as the 'bad guy' for keeping troops within its borders while the US are depicted as the 'good guys' for moving troops abroad and next to Russia and for threatening a pipeline between Russia and Germany. It might also be worth pointing out that Ukraine is not in NATO. The whole situation feels strange to me and I can't help but thinking that a lot more is happening than we are told or made to believe. Edit: the US seem the most active and effectively are the ones warmongering and it's hard to imagine that they care so much about Ukraine. But looking at Russian pipelines and China's Belt and Road perhaps they actually aim at creating a clash and a new iron curtain to prevent growing links between Europe and Russia/China in order to keep control of Europe.
  - edmcnulty101 5y ago
    Holy cow. I have the same exact feelings. Just feels really strange.
  - shrimp_emoji 5y ago
    >the US are depicted as the 'good guys' for moving troops abroad and next to Russia and for threatening a pipeline between Russia and Germany. NATO is a big alliance. Poland is in NATO. The U.S. is the strongest military power by a large margin. Russia is amassing troops next to a country they've already invaded (see Crimea). I don't see the dissonance here.
  - AnimalMuppet 5y ago
    Russia is "keeping troops within its borders" only if you ignore the 30,000 Russian troops currently in Belarus. And "they're within Russia's borders", but there sure seem to be a large number of them really close to the border of Ukraine. That raises concerns. Like, it's really easy to go from "all these troops are within our borders" to "all these troops are halfway to Kiev" within 48 hours. It's a force posture from which the Russian troops could trivially launch an invasion, and it's unprecedented since the end of the Cold War. That's concerning, at a minimum.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
sorokod 5y ago
Why would you say that Putin is a psychopath? Looks like he made some calculations, compared the outcomes and seems to favour aggression (those extra 3k are unlikely to change the calculus). By someone needs to be a bigger man, do you mean the people of Ukraine? In what way should they be bigger?
AnimalMuppet 5y ago
Not opposing the psychopath with force doesn't always work out very well, either. We don't want another "peace in our time".

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]