9 ms·

> “Between 1/24-1/31, a radio station in the Seattle area sent image files with no extension, which caused an issue on some 2014-2017 Mazda vehicles with older

> “Between 1/24-1/31, a radio station in the Seattle area sent image files with no extension, which caused an issue on some 2014-2017 Mazda vehicles with older software,” the Mazda statement said.

throwaway3kmv9 5y ago
"radio station in the Seattle area sent image files" If that's not a sign that people are making the simplest things Way More Complicated Than Necessary(tm) I don't know what is.
- noahtallen 5y ago
  I mean, yes, but at the same time, album art is a pretty normal thing to have along with music. And actual cellular data is just radios, but on different wavelengths and whatnot. So it’s not really a stretch to imagine sending arbitrary data along with music over a radio wave. And some of that data is actually very useful, like the track name or artist name.
  - prmoustache 5y ago
    You are supposed to look at the road when driving, not a screen full of album arts.
    - akira2501 5y ago
      My car has four seats. Sometimes there are people in the other ones.
      - austhrow743 5y ago
        My car not only has four seats like this commenters, it also allows you to be in it while stationary.
        pjerem 5y ago
        How lucky you are. Mine requires me to leave before stopping itself in a tree.
- Dylan16807 5y ago
  I'll let the inventors of television know they were making a mistake. And ID3.
  - akira2501 5y ago
    Ironically.. HD-Radio PSD (Program Services Data) is just a set of ID3 tags injected into the stream.
- consp 5y ago
  I don't know if that is true. Considering one of the issues with Mazda is text parsing. My ford doesn't transfer all the epg data from the radio module to the media unit and it requires a several hundred mb update when radio stations change their logo as people now expect radio station images since it is part of the dab standard.
  - JohnBooty 5y ago
    Wait, what? The station logos are preloaded as part of software updates, not transferred over the air?
- JohnBooty 5y ago
  My wife's car has the HD Radio stuff, and it's pretty neat to see album art for songs playing over the radio. I don't find it distracting. I treat it like everything else on the dashboard and I don't look at it unless I'm at a stoplight or whatever.
ILMostro7 5y ago
Maybe a Russel Crowe gif saying "are you not infotained!?"
toomuchtodo 5y ago
It’s going to require hardware replacement to fix the unsanitized input vulnerability failure. Very unfortunate, quite the bug.
- londons_explore 5y ago
  I think press releases say "replace hardware" when often they mean "you have to bring the car in and we're going to flash new firmware". Sometimes though, firmware can't be flashed by dealers (due to not booting), and then they'll swap the unit, and the old unit will be flashed and given to someone else. Might be worth hiding an airtag taped to the circuit board!
  - astrange 5y ago
    Asking every customer to come get a firmware upgrade is also called a "recall", which sounds like they have to stop selling the car and literally ask you to give it back. A lot of confused people were making fun of Tesla for that recently.
- silon42 5y ago
  Hopefully this is a car where a stereo can still be replaced... (even if you need an angle grinder/chainsaw). Cars where it can't are inferior.
myself248 5y ago
"sent image files" is an HD Radio function, and HD Radio is also known as NRSC-5, the standards document that describes it. There's an NRSC-5 encoder floating around on Github, if you want to try your hand at it. Notably, it was implemented by an infosec firm, presumably because more garbage code like this is lurking everywhere, and it never gets proper testing because HD Radio is proprietary and its creators never intended an open-source encoder to exist. (To the point of hiding all sorts of details about the codec, but some educated guesses and comparison to similar codecs seem to have paid off.) So, in this case it just crashes the radios so they boot-loop, but how long until someone figures out a payload that can do more damage?
- crystalmeph 5y ago
  At some point, I think we have to start asking if the addition of non-critical features like having a favicon for each radio station is worth the increased attack surface.
  - mbreese 5y ago
    Mixing the car radio and actual critical systems (backup camera) doesn't seem like a great idea. Especially when the car manufacturer doesn't control the entire system. I know nothing about the supply chain for car radios, but I wouldn't be surprised if it was all made by some secondary supplier, so Mazda doesn't even necessarily have the code to the section they need to patch. But, I'm honestly more surprised that it's a Mazda specific issue. I would have expected for the same bug to hit multiple infotainment systems.
    - walrus01 5y ago
      This may be pedantic but I wouldn't call a backup camera critical, people need to learn how to drive and parallel park without those aides. I sure would be pissed if I had a car with a backup camera and something like this bricked the big center screen in my car, however.
      - 5y ago
shadowofneptune 5y ago
The idea that an embedded system would validate files sent over the air using a filename extension is baffling to me. Extensions as a separate field from the name are a relic from the 70s. How much can checking the file for identification bytes really cost you?

throwaway3kmv9 5y ago

"radio station in the Seattle area sent image files" If that's not a sign that people are making the simplest things Way More Complicated Than Necessary(tm) I don't know what is.

noahtallen 5y ago
I mean, yes, but at the same time, album art is a pretty normal thing to have along with music. And actual cellular data is just radios, but on different wavelengths and whatnot. So it’s not really a stretch to imagine sending arbitrary data along with music over a radio wave. And some of that data is actually very useful, like the track name or artist name.
- prmoustache 5y ago
  You are supposed to look at the road when driving, not a screen full of album arts.
  - akira2501 5y ago
    My car has four seats. Sometimes there are people in the other ones.
    - austhrow743 5y ago
      My car not only has four seats like this commenters, it also allows you to be in it while stationary.
      - pjerem 5y ago
        How lucky you are. Mine requires me to leave before stopping itself in a tree.
Dylan16807 5y ago
I'll let the inventors of television know they were making a mistake. And ID3.
- akira2501 5y ago
  Ironically.. HD-Radio PSD (Program Services Data) is just a set of ID3 tags injected into the stream.
consp 5y ago
I don't know if that is true. Considering one of the issues with Mazda is text parsing. My ford doesn't transfer all the epg data from the radio module to the media unit and it requires a several hundred mb update when radio stations change their logo as people now expect radio station images since it is part of the dab standard.
- JohnBooty 5y ago
  Wait, what? The station logos are preloaded as part of software updates, not transferred over the air?
JohnBooty 5y ago
My wife's car has the HD Radio stuff, and it's pretty neat to see album art for songs playing over the radio. I don't find it distracting. I treat it like everything else on the dashboard and I don't look at it unless I'm at a stoplight or whatever.

ILMostro7 5y ago

Maybe a Russel Crowe gif saying "are you not infotained!?"

toomuchtodo 5y ago

It’s going to require hardware replacement to fix the unsanitized input vulnerability failure. Very unfortunate, quite the bug.

londons_explore 5y ago
I think press releases say "replace hardware" when often they mean "you have to bring the car in and we're going to flash new firmware". Sometimes though, firmware can't be flashed by dealers (due to not booting), and then they'll swap the unit, and the old unit will be flashed and given to someone else. Might be worth hiding an airtag taped to the circuit board!
- astrange 5y ago
  Asking every customer to come get a firmware upgrade is also called a "recall", which sounds like they have to stop selling the car and literally ask you to give it back. A lot of confused people were making fun of Tesla for that recently.
silon42 5y ago
Hopefully this is a car where a stereo can still be replaced... (even if you need an angle grinder/chainsaw). Cars where it can't are inferior.

myself248 5y ago

"sent image files" is an HD Radio function, and HD Radio is also known as NRSC-5, the standards document that describes it. There's an NRSC-5 encoder floating around on Github, if you want to try your hand at it. Notably, it was implemented by an infosec firm, presumably because more garbage code like this is lurking everywhere, and it never gets proper testing because HD Radio is proprietary and its creators never intended an open-source encoder to exist. (To the point of hiding all sorts of details about the codec, but some educated guesses and comparison to similar codecs seem to have paid off.) So, in this case it just crashes the radios so they boot-loop, but how long until someone figures out a payload that can do more damage?

crystalmeph 5y ago
At some point, I think we have to start asking if the addition of non-critical features like having a favicon for each radio station is worth the increased attack surface.
- mbreese 5y ago
  Mixing the car radio and actual critical systems (backup camera) doesn't seem like a great idea. Especially when the car manufacturer doesn't control the entire system. I know nothing about the supply chain for car radios, but I wouldn't be surprised if it was all made by some secondary supplier, so Mazda doesn't even necessarily have the code to the section they need to patch. But, I'm honestly more surprised that it's a Mazda specific issue. I would have expected for the same bug to hit multiple infotainment systems.
  - walrus01 5y ago
    This may be pedantic but I wouldn't call a backup camera critical, people need to learn how to drive and parallel park without those aides. I sure would be pissed if I had a car with a backup camera and something like this bricked the big center screen in my car, however.
    - 5y ago

shadowofneptune 5y ago

The idea that an embedded system would validate files sent over the air using a filename extension is baffling to me. Extensions as a separate field from the name are a relic from the 70s. How much can checking the file for identification bytes really cost you?