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> We built Change Number using the foundation of more exciting features to come. Surely this is referring to the ability to use a non-phone number ID, which th

by Vinnl 5y ago

> We built Change Number using the foundation of more exciting features to come. Surely this is referring to the ability to use a non-phone number ID, which they've hinted at before [1]. Looking forward to that, only because I know many others are! [1] https://www.reddit.com/r/technology/comments/kt91qk/comment/giks8hv/?context=3 https://www.reddit.com/r/technology/comments/kt91qk/comment/...

viccuad 5y ago
Oh, I'm surprised, after a decade stating that phone numbers were great for ID.
- killingtime74 5y ago
  It shows they have an open mind I guess
  - fartcannon 5y ago
    To me, it shows that whatever agent is pushing signal adoption has seen the writing on the wall and is trying to get ahead before the tide changes and they have to hit some other developers with wrenches. ;)
  - tibyat 5y ago
    well, the ceo did step down last month..
- tptacek 5y ago
  They're great compared to the alternative of simply storing a plaintext register of every pair of communicating parties on the server, which is how other messengers work. What's "good" about phone numbers is that they're tied clientside to a "buddy list" that everyone already keeps --- their contact list. They don't want phone numbers on the merits of phone numbers.
  - charcircuit 5y ago
    I've never used a contact list for my "buddies." We just have each other added on Discord.
    - caslon 5y ago
      Discord keeps your friend information on their servers. This is, like tptacek said, exactly what Signal is trying to prevent. If servers get seized by the Feds, they don't want to needlessly reveal who's contacting who for everyone. It's about storing as little personal information as they can.
      - theamk 5y ago
        Question: do you use Signal? If yes, are you backing up/syncing your contact list? If yes, are you worried about Feds coming for your backup/sync provider?
        stjohnswarts 5y ago
        Isn't your contact list encrypted? I mean wouldn't they have to hack my password (good luck) to do that?
        crtasm 5y ago
        When you backup to/sync via Apple or Google? No.
        caslon 5y ago
        If that happens, that's not a disastrous thing. That means one person reveals who they're talking to in general, not just on Signal. It doesn't mean that the millions of Signal users all lose that privacy. But no, I don't use Signal. I just think it's strange how some people can't seem to wrap their head around any of the rationale for this when it's the most transparent thing in the world. Do I like it? No, but it's ridiculous how some people pretend to be incapable of critical thinking in order to talk about how it's horrible. If something is actually horrible, being deliberately obtuse isn't needed.
- root_axis 5y ago
  Signal was built as an alternative to SMS so that design makes sense with that goal in mind.
  - phaer 5y ago
    TextSecure, Signals name before re-branding started out doing only SMS encryption. Sending messages over data started earlier if I remember correctly. I think that must have been almost 10 years ago
- stjohnswarts 5y ago
  I would much prefer a one time randomly generated GUID myself that can be used to transfer to new phones or just trash if you want a full reset on your signal contacts. Obviously 2FA like TOTP or similar to change it.
- raspyberr 5y ago
  They mainly used numbers so they could leverage the social graph of phone contact lists. That way they didn't need to store any social graphs on their systems.
wyager 5y ago
Based on the whole "mobilecoin" pump and dump scam they tried to pull, I unfortunately expect this to be tied to some kind of identity shitcoin.
- 0xdeadb00f 5y ago
  I'd laugh then probably cry.
gaius_baltar 5y ago
> Surely this is referring to the ability to use a non-phone number ID, They are promising this for years and years, I hope this time is real. Specially if we don't need a phone number to create an account: that's just incompatible with privacy.
godelski 5y ago
I think the real question is what "usernames" will look like. There were hints dropped that this could be stronger than a typical username (like what HN has). I took a poll on reddit[0][1] to see what people wanted. I was rather surprised at how many wanted strong anonymity. I expected that the top choice would be the weak anonymity, where people just have an alternative to phone numbers. But I think if that's what Signal was rolling out then it would have been here already. So I hope they make anonymous communication available to everyone. I don't expect strong anonymity in the initial rollout, but I hope that is what they are working towards. As I see it, there are three aspects to protected communication: privacy (no one sees what you're saying), anonymity (no one sees who's communication), and censorship prevention (no one can shut down communication). If we get strong anonymity in Signal then that is 2/3 and would be a great leap forward for free speech _everywhere_. I expect censorship prevention to be the hardest of these to tackle, even with decentralization. [0] https://www.reddit.com/r/signal/comments/skoaf6/poll_why_do_you_want_usernames/ https://www.reddit.com/r/signal/comments/skoaf6/poll_why_do_... [1] Yes, I realize there are issues with the poll. Polling is hard.
- gst 5y ago
  > I think the real question is what "usernames" will look like. There were hints dropped that this could be stronger than a typical username (like what HN has). Quite a bit of code related to usernames has already been checked into Signal. Here's the username regexp and the method that checks if a username is valid: https://github.com/signalapp/Signal-Android/blob/a5e5a735800cbdb3afa01a67390b6efa2fc91be6/app/src/main/java/org/thoughtcrime/securesms/util/UsernameUtil.java https://github.com/signalapp/Signal-Android/blob/a5e5a735800...
  - crossroadsguy 5y ago
    It is unfortunate that they seem to be going for user created username. I’d rather have something like ~hkopy-vnhyt randomly generated and given to users with option to try for another randomly generated username if they didn’t like the first.
    - 5y ago
FunnyLookinHat 5y ago
I'm hoping to reclaim my ICQ number!
crossroadsguy 5y ago
I hope they don’t implement it broken like Telegram’s. If a person has your number in the contacts then your username and phone number are automatically merged together even if you were conversing to that person using your username from your perspective. That’s such a safety nightmare.

by Vinnl 5y ago

viccuad 5y ago

Oh, I'm surprised, after a decade stating that phone numbers were great for ID.

killingtime74 5y ago
It shows they have an open mind I guess
- fartcannon 5y ago
  To me, it shows that whatever agent is pushing signal adoption has seen the writing on the wall and is trying to get ahead before the tide changes and they have to hit some other developers with wrenches. ;)
- tibyat 5y ago
  well, the ceo did step down last month..
tptacek 5y ago
They're great compared to the alternative of simply storing a plaintext register of every pair of communicating parties on the server, which is how other messengers work. What's "good" about phone numbers is that they're tied clientside to a "buddy list" that everyone already keeps --- their contact list. They don't want phone numbers on the merits of phone numbers.
- charcircuit 5y ago
  I've never used a contact list for my "buddies." We just have each other added on Discord.
  - caslon 5y ago
    Discord keeps your friend information on their servers. This is, like tptacek said, exactly what Signal is trying to prevent. If servers get seized by the Feds, they don't want to needlessly reveal who's contacting who for everyone. It's about storing as little personal information as they can.
    - theamk 5y ago
      Question: do you use Signal? If yes, are you backing up/syncing your contact list? If yes, are you worried about Feds coming for your backup/sync provider?
      - stjohnswarts 5y ago
        Isn't your contact list encrypted? I mean wouldn't they have to hack my password (good luck) to do that?
        crtasm 5y ago
        When you backup to/sync via Apple or Google? No.
      - caslon 5y ago
        If that happens, that's not a disastrous thing. That means one person reveals who they're talking to in general, not just on Signal. It doesn't mean that the millions of Signal users all lose that privacy. But no, I don't use Signal. I just think it's strange how some people can't seem to wrap their head around any of the rationale for this when it's the most transparent thing in the world. Do I like it? No, but it's ridiculous how some people pretend to be incapable of critical thinking in order to talk about how it's horrible. If something is actually horrible, being deliberately obtuse isn't needed.
root_axis 5y ago
Signal was built as an alternative to SMS so that design makes sense with that goal in mind.
- phaer 5y ago
  TextSecure, Signals name before re-branding started out doing only SMS encryption. Sending messages over data started earlier if I remember correctly. I think that must have been almost 10 years ago
stjohnswarts 5y ago
I would much prefer a one time randomly generated GUID myself that can be used to transfer to new phones or just trash if you want a full reset on your signal contacts. Obviously 2FA like TOTP or similar to change it.
raspyberr 5y ago
They mainly used numbers so they could leverage the social graph of phone contact lists. That way they didn't need to store any social graphs on their systems.

wyager 5y ago

Based on the whole "mobilecoin" pump and dump scam they tried to pull, I unfortunately expect this to be tied to some kind of identity shitcoin.

0xdeadb00f 5y ago
I'd laugh then probably cry.

gaius_baltar 5y ago

> Surely this is referring to the ability to use a non-phone number ID, They are promising this for years and years, I hope this time is real. Specially if we don't need a phone number to create an account: that's just incompatible with privacy.

godelski 5y ago

I think the real question is what "usernames" will look like. There were hints dropped that this could be stronger than a typical username (like what HN has). I took a poll on reddit[0][1] to see what people wanted. I was rather surprised at how many wanted strong anonymity. I expected that the top choice would be the weak anonymity, where people just have an alternative to phone numbers. But I think if that's what Signal was rolling out then it would have been here already. So I hope they make anonymous communication available to everyone. I don't expect strong anonymity in the initial rollout, but I hope that is what they are working towards. As I see it, there are three aspects to protected communication: privacy (no one sees what you're saying), anonymity (no one sees who's communication), and censorship prevention (no one can shut down communication). If we get strong anonymity in Signal then that is 2/3 and would be a great leap forward for free speech _everywhere_. I expect censorship prevention to be the hardest of these to tackle, even with decentralization. [0] https://www.reddit.com/r/signal/comments/skoaf6/poll_why_do_you_want_usernames/ https://www.reddit.com/r/signal/comments/skoaf6/poll_why_do_... [1] Yes, I realize there are issues with the poll. Polling is hard.

gst 5y ago
> I think the real question is what "usernames" will look like. There were hints dropped that this could be stronger than a typical username (like what HN has). Quite a bit of code related to usernames has already been checked into Signal. Here's the username regexp and the method that checks if a username is valid: https://github.com/signalapp/Signal-Android/blob/a5e5a735800cbdb3afa01a67390b6efa2fc91be6/app/src/main/java/org/thoughtcrime/securesms/util/UsernameUtil.java https://github.com/signalapp/Signal-Android/blob/a5e5a735800...
- crossroadsguy 5y ago
  It is unfortunate that they seem to be going for user created username. I’d rather have something like ~hkopy-vnhyt randomly generated and given to users with option to try for another randomly generated username if they didn’t like the first.
  - 5y ago

FunnyLookinHat 5y ago

I'm hoping to reclaim my ICQ number!

crossroadsguy 5y ago

I hope they don’t implement it broken like Telegram’s. If a person has your number in the contacts then your username and phone number are automatically merged together even if you were conversing to that person using your username from your perspective. That’s such a safety nightmare.