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I think this post may be, in its parlance, "sanewashing" workaholism. For example, let's take this post from the subreddit: https://old.reddit.com/r/antiwork/c

I think this post may be, in its parlance, "sanewashing" workaholism. For example, let's take this post from the subreddit: https://old.reddit.com/r/antiwork/comments/lo6wov/my_dads_a_working_class_hero/ https://old.reddit.com/r/antiwork/comments/lo6wov/my_dads_a_... > "My dads a “working class hero” I wanna punch him in the face, we wanted to visit this weekend, we haven’t seen him in 2 months due to covid, we have three kids and so does he (6, 8 and 9) his wife passed away 2 years ago, and he’s been back to work for a year, he is on salary and gets no overtime, what’s he doing right now on this beautiful winter Saturday morning? Fucking working over time... not for money, but because they “need” him... fuck you, your family needs you and you been working 50 h a week on salary for 20 fucking years. Fucken boomers." When I read this, I see "haven't seen him in two months," "we have three kids and so does he (6, 8 and 9) his wife passed away," and "your family needs you." When the author read this, he saw "criticizing his father for hard work." I think we can all agree that the emotional cost to your family is a major, defining symptom of being a workaholic. This appears to be someone seeking support for that, but the author tries to ignore the emotional reality and paper it over with, well, honestly I don't need to rephrase it, I'm sure it's obvious. Neglecting to spend time with your family can be just as bad as neglecting to provide for them. If it didn't happen so often maybe we wouldn't have so make kids growing up with a deep-set hatred of jobs. You don't need to be Freud to make that association. ;)

JasonFruit 5y ago
I see 50 hours a week as work, nothing more. "Haven't seen him in two months" sounds, in that context, like dramatic hyperbole. Dismissing someone's hard work to support a family with an age-related slur doesn't breed sympathy for a position, either.
- HWR_14 5y ago
  I'm pretty sure the issue was more "I'm visiting my dad for the first time in months so my kids can play with their similarly aged uncles, and he's skipping our planned trip to do overtime" that he's reacting to, not the 50 hours a week regularly part. Although his siblings are being raised by a single dad, so maybe he needs to not work on saturdays?
  - throwaway0a5e 5y ago
    >I'm pretty sure the issue was more "I'm visiting my dad for the first time in months so my kids can play with their similarly aged uncles, and he's skipping our planned trip to do overtime" that he's reacting to, not the 50 hours a week regularly part. This is how I read it. And in that context there's a heck of a lot to read between the lines. Nobody gets their kids out of the house and then starts another family because the first try turned out great. Sounds like dad doesn't want to spend time with someone. When your options are the middle aged dude putting in OT and raising more kids and the person airing their family drama on the internet who gets the benefit of the doubt isn't much of a choice.
  - JasonFruit 5y ago
    That reading makes a lot more sense than how I initially took it.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
wtf_is_up 5y ago
When I read this, I think there is a possibility their dad uses work as an escape from family, as I have known many coworkers over the years who 'hid' at work. It's possible their dad doesn't want to visit them. That is not work's fault, necessarily.
cscurmudgeon 5y ago
> If it didn't happen so often maybe we wouldn't have so make kids growing up with a deep-set hatred of jobs. You don't need to be Freud to make that association. ;) These kids need to travel to find out the reality of the world.
nradov 5y ago
What about the dads who are away from their families for weeks or months at a time, working offshore or on military deployments? Are they "bad"? I think some people just have a skewed sense of entitlement.
- whatshisface 5y ago
  Offshore workers get weeks or months off at a time, alternating with their weeks of solid working. Military deployments are hard on families. Not sure what to add to that but it's a fact.
dotnet00 5y ago
On the other hand, the argument can be made that the kids' lack of respect for the dad's career might be what's leading to the dad hiding away at work in the first place? I feel this would be something relatable to a large portion of the people on this site, given how many of us practically live our tech careers. Even if we aren't putting in overtime at work, many of us spend time not at work on personal projects or learning some new tech. We might think of it as different from work, but for an outsider it'll just seem like more work. It's also a sort of hypocrisy since if the point of the movement is to allow people to be free to do what they find meaning in, surely it's contradictory to diminish what someone finds meaning in just because you don't think it pays enough. I know that if I had someone who didn't care for how fulfilling tech work is to me, I'd probably end up avoiding them too. Back when I went through a similar phase with my family, I too just buried myself more in work to not have to deal with them. Now they do understand, so I end up spending more time with them.
- whatshisface 5y ago
  If your plan is to live your career, why not just stay single?
  - dotnet00 5y ago
    because family and being invested in your career aren't mutually exclusive? I explained that...
    - whatshisface 5y ago
      Since a day's rest and activities must add up to twenty four hours no matter what, any two things are always mutually exclusive.
wonderwonder 5y ago
To be fair if I was the dad I would not want to see this kid either nor anyone else that states they want to punch me in the face. Dad worked for 20 years to provide for his family, lost his wife and keeps providing. Wonder how much of the dad's salary still goes to supporting this 'kid' who has 3 kids of his own. 50 hours a week working is really not that much in the scheme of things, its not optimal but its not really workaholic level.
seanmcdirmid 5y ago
I can't even grock the writing to get a feeling from it. They have 3 kids and his dad has 3 kids also? Or are their 3 kids the dad's grandchildren and the author of the comment has 2 siblings? And the dad's wife passed away, I assume is not their mother? But why would that be relevant? And since he is a boomer, he is at retirement age probably? His kids must be fully grown right?

JasonFruit 5y ago

I see 50 hours a week as work, nothing more. "Haven't seen him in two months" sounds, in that context, like dramatic hyperbole. Dismissing someone's hard work to support a family with an age-related slur doesn't breed sympathy for a position, either.

HWR_14 5y ago
I'm pretty sure the issue was more "I'm visiting my dad for the first time in months so my kids can play with their similarly aged uncles, and he's skipping our planned trip to do overtime" that he's reacting to, not the 50 hours a week regularly part. Although his siblings are being raised by a single dad, so maybe he needs to not work on saturdays?
- throwaway0a5e 5y ago
  >I'm pretty sure the issue was more "I'm visiting my dad for the first time in months so my kids can play with their similarly aged uncles, and he's skipping our planned trip to do overtime" that he's reacting to, not the 50 hours a week regularly part. This is how I read it. And in that context there's a heck of a lot to read between the lines. Nobody gets their kids out of the house and then starts another family because the first try turned out great. Sounds like dad doesn't want to spend time with someone. When your options are the middle aged dude putting in OT and raising more kids and the person airing their family drama on the internet who gets the benefit of the doubt isn't much of a choice.
- JasonFruit 5y ago
  That reading makes a lot more sense than how I initially took it.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]

wtf_is_up 5y ago

When I read this, I think there is a possibility their dad uses work as an escape from family, as I have known many coworkers over the years who 'hid' at work. It's possible their dad doesn't want to visit them. That is not work's fault, necessarily.

cscurmudgeon 5y ago

> If it didn't happen so often maybe we wouldn't have so make kids growing up with a deep-set hatred of jobs. You don't need to be Freud to make that association. ;) These kids need to travel to find out the reality of the world.

nradov 5y ago

What about the dads who are away from their families for weeks or months at a time, working offshore or on military deployments? Are they "bad"? I think some people just have a skewed sense of entitlement.

whatshisface 5y ago
Offshore workers get weeks or months off at a time, alternating with their weeks of solid working. Military deployments are hard on families. Not sure what to add to that but it's a fact.

dotnet00 5y ago

On the other hand, the argument can be made that the kids' lack of respect for the dad's career might be what's leading to the dad hiding away at work in the first place? I feel this would be something relatable to a large portion of the people on this site, given how many of us practically live our tech careers. Even if we aren't putting in overtime at work, many of us spend time not at work on personal projects or learning some new tech. We might think of it as different from work, but for an outsider it'll just seem like more work. It's also a sort of hypocrisy since if the point of the movement is to allow people to be free to do what they find meaning in, surely it's contradictory to diminish what someone finds meaning in just because you don't think it pays enough. I know that if I had someone who didn't care for how fulfilling tech work is to me, I'd probably end up avoiding them too. Back when I went through a similar phase with my family, I too just buried myself more in work to not have to deal with them. Now they do understand, so I end up spending more time with them.

whatshisface 5y ago
If your plan is to live your career, why not just stay single?
- dotnet00 5y ago
  because family and being invested in your career aren't mutually exclusive? I explained that...
  - whatshisface 5y ago
    Since a day's rest and activities must add up to twenty four hours no matter what, any two things are always mutually exclusive.

wonderwonder 5y ago

To be fair if I was the dad I would not want to see this kid either nor anyone else that states they want to punch me in the face. Dad worked for 20 years to provide for his family, lost his wife and keeps providing. Wonder how much of the dad's salary still goes to supporting this 'kid' who has 3 kids of his own. 50 hours a week working is really not that much in the scheme of things, its not optimal but its not really workaholic level.

seanmcdirmid 5y ago

I can't even grock the writing to get a feeling from it. They have 3 kids and his dad has 3 kids also? Or are their 3 kids the dad's grandchildren and the author of the comment has 2 siblings? And the dad's wife passed away, I assume is not their mother? But why would that be relevant? And since he is a boomer, he is at retirement age probably? His kids must be fully grown right?