9 ms·

I’m always amused by mask mandates as regressing and “doing nothing for public health” as keeping calm.

spookthesunset 5y ago
Mask mandates say “vaccines dont work” and “stay scared”. They are dehumanizing. Besides it doesn’t matter what you think about masks. The fact that many people resent wearing them is reason enough to rethink forcing people to wear them. We do live in society and not everybody considers Covid the only problem in existence. Especially post vaccine. Maybe people want to move on? Mayne those people have incredibly valid reasons for they wish? Maybe the government should respect that?
- notriddle 5y ago
  > They are dehumanizing. It's a piece of cloth worn over your nose and mouth. How fragile is your sense of humanity? > Besides it doesn’t matter what you think about masks. The fact that many people resent wearing them is reason enough to rethink forcing people to wear them. I don't like wearing shoes, but that doesn't make shoe mandates (which are totally a thing, but only private businesses, not by government order) dehumanizing. > We do live in society and not everybody considers Covid the only problem in existence. Is that straw man dead yet? > Especially post vaccine. On this point, I actually agree. Would vaccine mandates be acceptable instead? It would be much more effective than mask mandates (which, while I have no real problem with them in principle, don't actually work that well because so many people don't wear them correctly).
  - throwaway22032 5y ago
  - darkerside 5y ago
    What about a mandate against wearing shoes, when many are more comfortable wearing them? I think the argument here is that any mandate beyond the bare minimum is harmful to freedom. Just because you don't mind wearing a mask doesn't mean others can't. I say this as someone who doesn't mind masks and wears them often.
    - qsdf38100 5y ago
      If not wearing shoes was potentially helping health services to keep being functional, then yes it would make sense to mandate it. Harmful to freedom? What about the freedom of having functional health services? I keep hearing about freedom but freedom isn't about doing whatever we want, we also have to consider the freedom of others not to suffer from our actions. I consider my suffering of wearing a mask laughable compared to the suffering of people unable to get health care when their life depends on it. I'm happy to wear it even if in the future it turns out they weren't helping significantly.
      - darkerside 5y ago
        > I'm happy to wear it even if in the future it turns out they weren't helping significantly. I guess that's where we differ. I believe we should make our best decisions based on what science predicts. If there's unlikely to be a significant benefit, some are not happy to wear it. You are, but that's a personal choice. There are lots of sacrifices we could make that would have an immediate and more tangible impact on health outcomes. Outlaw motor vehicles, mandatory vegetables, end alcohol sales. We don't do that because it would piss people off.
      - rosndo 5y ago
        >potentially helping That’s an incredibly low bar you’re setting. What do you think of the suffering of those who’d normally rely on lip reading?
  - chana_masala 5y ago
    - yosame 5y ago
      - chana_masala 5y ago
    - dang 5y ago
      Personal attacks will get you banned here. Please review https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and don't post like this again. Edit: since we already asked you twice not to do this, and you've continued, I've banned the account. If you don't want to be banned, you're welcome to email hn@ycombinator.com and give us reason to believe that you'll follow the rules in the future.
- danbolt 5y ago
  > They are dehumanizing. Just curious, but would you feel comfortable elaborating on how? I haven’t found them all that bad personally, but maybe there’s something I’m not as attuned to.
  - nsxwolf 5y ago
    I went from living normally to living with a disability the last 2 years. I have a hard time understanding speech if I can’t see peoples lips move. I resent it.
    - danbolt 5y ago
      I’m sorry it’s made things hard.
- Daishiman 5y ago
  - spookthesunset 5y ago
    and your argument amounts to bullying. It doesn’t matter why I dislike masks. I don’t want to wear one. They are a medical device that I’d rather subject myself to no matter the risk it puts me in. And you have no right to force me or bully me or call me names. Masks turned a swath of a particular political party into some seriously sanctimonious assholes.
    - Daishiman 5y ago
      > And you have no right to force me or bully me or call me names. Sure we do. The word "quarantine" comes from the fact that during large stretches of human history we'd isolate people before entering new cities for the objectively true concern that they're bring in new pests. My grandparents traveled to the Americas from Europe and had the vaccination cards, had thorough medical examinations, and had to quarantine after coming from a ship full of sick people. The entire history of human civilization is one big narrative of hygiene management. Sewage, water management, waste management, disease control. I like my civilization more than I care for the whining of people ignorant of the unthinkable amounts of pain that diseases have caused. So, yeah, no problem calling you names, some people need to be reminded of their own ignorance every now and then.
- qsdf38100 5y ago
  Not everybody considers Covid the only problem in existence? Sure you can consider whatever you want, but hospitals being overrun and barely able to provide not-covid-related health services is the reality some people keep ignoring. Maybe people want to move on? Sure we all do, but... you know... health services can't just "move on"...
throwaway1777 5y ago
Because masks never really made any statistical impact on the virus spread, so requiring them at this point means you’re not following the data you’re following something else. (I was pro-mask for a while before we had data)
- altcognito 5y ago
  Let the surgeons know. Yes, compliance and knowing how to wear a mask has been an issue. That's not the same thing as "masks don't work." This is a random place to put this, but I just want to point out that I think for the most part even mask wearing is not required anymore (unless you are sick, but why are you going anywhere sick?) Part of the reason I put it here is that I want to make sure it's understood that despite the fact I'm pretty pro-vax, pro-mask and generally supported the lockdowns at the time -- we're past all that for now with Omicron. Things are still a mess, and the facts on the ground could change, but I think it's important that everybody gets on the same page that we're moving on.
  - throwaway1777 5y ago
    Sounds like we basically agree even though we are coming at it from different angles.
    - altcognito 5y ago
      Not really. I'm saying masks work and mandates are necessary public health policy. Regardless of a mandate, people will do what they do even if it's not in their best interests, or in the interests of their loved ones, or the interests of their neighbors. They will smoke in public places, they will goto work sick, they will drive drunk. Frankly put, people can be jerks. So you put a mandate out there, and you do your best. Masks work. In areas where mask utilization is high, there is good air filtration and people follow distancing rules, the spread is slowed.
  - vondur 5y ago
    Masks are still required where I live, yet we have some of the highest infection rates in the country. (Southern California)
nradov 5y ago
At this point there's no valid scientific or medical reason to continue with mask mandates. I recommend listening to UCSF infectious disease expert Dr. Monica Gandhi who provides a clear explanation of the current situation. https://peterattiamd.com/covid-part2/ https://peterattiamd.com/covid-part2/

Mask mandates say “vaccines dont work” and “stay scared”. They are dehumanizing. Besides it doesn’t matter what you think about masks. The fact that many people resent wearing them is reason enough to rethink forcing people to wear them. We do live in society and not everybody considers Covid the only problem in existence. Especially post vaccine. Maybe people want to move on? Mayne those people have incredibly valid reasons for they wish? Maybe the government should respect that?

notriddle 5y ago
> They are dehumanizing. It's a piece of cloth worn over your nose and mouth. How fragile is your sense of humanity? > Besides it doesn’t matter what you think about masks. The fact that many people resent wearing them is reason enough to rethink forcing people to wear them. I don't like wearing shoes, but that doesn't make shoe mandates (which are totally a thing, but only private businesses, not by government order) dehumanizing. > We do live in society and not everybody considers Covid the only problem in existence. Is that straw man dead yet? > Especially post vaccine. On this point, I actually agree. Would vaccine mandates be acceptable instead? It would be much more effective than mask mandates (which, while I have no real problem with them in principle, don't actually work that well because so many people don't wear them correctly).
- throwaway22032 5y ago
- darkerside 5y ago
  What about a mandate against wearing shoes, when many are more comfortable wearing them? I think the argument here is that any mandate beyond the bare minimum is harmful to freedom. Just because you don't mind wearing a mask doesn't mean others can't. I say this as someone who doesn't mind masks and wears them often.
  - qsdf38100 5y ago
    If not wearing shoes was potentially helping health services to keep being functional, then yes it would make sense to mandate it. Harmful to freedom? What about the freedom of having functional health services? I keep hearing about freedom but freedom isn't about doing whatever we want, we also have to consider the freedom of others not to suffer from our actions. I consider my suffering of wearing a mask laughable compared to the suffering of people unable to get health care when their life depends on it. I'm happy to wear it even if in the future it turns out they weren't helping significantly.
    - darkerside 5y ago
      > I'm happy to wear it even if in the future it turns out they weren't helping significantly. I guess that's where we differ. I believe we should make our best decisions based on what science predicts. If there's unlikely to be a significant benefit, some are not happy to wear it. You are, but that's a personal choice. There are lots of sacrifices we could make that would have an immediate and more tangible impact on health outcomes. Outlaw motor vehicles, mandatory vegetables, end alcohol sales. We don't do that because it would piss people off.
    - rosndo 5y ago
      >potentially helping That’s an incredibly low bar you’re setting. What do you think of the suffering of those who’d normally rely on lip reading?
- chana_masala 5y ago
  - yosame 5y ago
    - chana_masala 5y ago
  - dang 5y ago
    Personal attacks will get you banned here. Please review https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and don't post like this again. Edit: since we already asked you twice not to do this, and you've continued, I've banned the account. If you don't want to be banned, you're welcome to email hn@ycombinator.com and give us reason to believe that you'll follow the rules in the future.
danbolt 5y ago
> They are dehumanizing. Just curious, but would you feel comfortable elaborating on how? I haven’t found them all that bad personally, but maybe there’s something I’m not as attuned to.
- nsxwolf 5y ago
  I went from living normally to living with a disability the last 2 years. I have a hard time understanding speech if I can’t see peoples lips move. I resent it.
  - danbolt 5y ago
    I’m sorry it’s made things hard.
Daishiman 5y ago
- spookthesunset 5y ago
  and your argument amounts to bullying. It doesn’t matter why I dislike masks. I don’t want to wear one. They are a medical device that I’d rather subject myself to no matter the risk it puts me in. And you have no right to force me or bully me or call me names. Masks turned a swath of a particular political party into some seriously sanctimonious assholes.
  - Daishiman 5y ago
    > And you have no right to force me or bully me or call me names. Sure we do. The word "quarantine" comes from the fact that during large stretches of human history we'd isolate people before entering new cities for the objectively true concern that they're bring in new pests. My grandparents traveled to the Americas from Europe and had the vaccination cards, had thorough medical examinations, and had to quarantine after coming from a ship full of sick people. The entire history of human civilization is one big narrative of hygiene management. Sewage, water management, waste management, disease control. I like my civilization more than I care for the whining of people ignorant of the unthinkable amounts of pain that diseases have caused. So, yeah, no problem calling you names, some people need to be reminded of their own ignorance every now and then.
qsdf38100 5y ago
Not everybody considers Covid the only problem in existence? Sure you can consider whatever you want, but hospitals being overrun and barely able to provide not-covid-related health services is the reality some people keep ignoring. Maybe people want to move on? Sure we all do, but... you know... health services can't just "move on"...

throwaway1777 5y ago

Because masks never really made any statistical impact on the virus spread, so requiring them at this point means you’re not following the data you’re following something else. (I was pro-mask for a while before we had data)

altcognito 5y ago
Let the surgeons know. Yes, compliance and knowing how to wear a mask has been an issue. That's not the same thing as "masks don't work." This is a random place to put this, but I just want to point out that I think for the most part even mask wearing is not required anymore (unless you are sick, but why are you going anywhere sick?) Part of the reason I put it here is that I want to make sure it's understood that despite the fact I'm pretty pro-vax, pro-mask and generally supported the lockdowns at the time -- we're past all that for now with Omicron. Things are still a mess, and the facts on the ground could change, but I think it's important that everybody gets on the same page that we're moving on.
- throwaway1777 5y ago
  Sounds like we basically agree even though we are coming at it from different angles.
  - altcognito 5y ago
    Not really. I'm saying masks work and mandates are necessary public health policy. Regardless of a mandate, people will do what they do even if it's not in their best interests, or in the interests of their loved ones, or the interests of their neighbors. They will smoke in public places, they will goto work sick, they will drive drunk. Frankly put, people can be jerks. So you put a mandate out there, and you do your best. Masks work. In areas where mask utilization is high, there is good air filtration and people follow distancing rules, the spread is slowed.
- vondur 5y ago
  Masks are still required where I live, yet we have some of the highest infection rates in the country. (Southern California)

nradov 5y ago

At this point there's no valid scientific or medical reason to continue with mask mandates. I recommend listening to UCSF infectious disease expert Dr. Monica Gandhi who provides a clear explanation of the current situation. https://peterattiamd.com/covid-part2/ https://peterattiamd.com/covid-part2/