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Adorno and his cohort are the ones who created Critical Theory and adapted Marxism for the post-war western intellectual taste. Much of what is now called "woke

by seneca 5y ago

Adorno and his cohort are the ones who created Critical Theory and adapted Marxism for the post-war western intellectual taste. Much of what is now called "wokeness" is a direct result of their work, by way of the New Left.

pizza 5y ago
Not so. In fact I took a critical theory class in college (fell under religious studies, rather than political economy, interestingly). The professor started off the class with two things: 1. critical theory is about the study of what makes suffering persist in modern life 2. much of the critical theory works of the twentieth century are about the rise of fascism as well as the reality of the failure of Marxism. You'd do well to pinpoint the origins of your opinion -- someone fleeced you.
- bitwize 5y ago
  Critical theory already has an answer for what makes suffering persist in modern life: unjust power structures baked into society at all levels: political, social, economic, epistemological, and psychic. Critical theory is a framework/toolkit for uncovering and exposing those unjust power structures. Furthermore, the failure of Marxism and the rise of fascism are considered to be the same phenomenon. That is why, per Marcuse, only leftists deserved to speak freely: allowing other opinions to the table would only hasten the rise of the next Hitler.
  - raxxorrax 5y ago
    It is not a good framework for analysis. It can be a tool, but using such an inductive lens can lead to you seeing power structures everywhere where none exist. Marcuse was a victim of fascism and sadly his wounds remained and influenced his texts.
  - nikolay 5y ago
    There's no excuse for silencing voices, even Nazis ones as every inconvenient voice would be labeled a Nazi one easily! I'd rather know who has Nazis views and who has Marxist ones than live among people like in Iran where truths and genuine opinions are only shared at home. It was the same back in Communist Bulgaria up to 1989, so, please, ask people who've been through such a silencing-for-their-own-good regime - there are plenty of them around the globe!
    - raxxorrax 5y ago
      In Germany shortly after the Nazi problem we had another dictatorship that was against freedom of expression and severely restricted opinions. They were sure they were the good guys this time... It was very reactionary to nationalism. Adorno and consorts writings are often reactionary too, but they were real victims of fascism. They tried very hard to find an explanation for the reasons of the prosecution and sometimes got carried away. In this context most works are well worth a read. It might even be beneficial to know the works to not conflate their position with those of people that call for more content and opinion control. These people are not innocent, they happily condemn others and have a totalitarian world view. It is just much more difficult to oppose them because they can point to Nazi and declare themselves as opposition.
      - nikolay 5y ago
        Well, I know many victims of Communism in Bulgaria, who were silenced and now support silencing! And I don't get this!
jancsika 5y ago
Hey dang-- HN should implement per-sentence votes. The first sentence here is just a reference to Adorno's influence as part of the Frankfurt School. The second sentence is low-effort speculation. I need to be able to highlight the 2nd sentence and click the downvote button for it.
- aspenmayer 5y ago
  Or maybe do something like Genius or Medium and allow highlighting and selective comments?
beepbooptheory 5y ago
This is an incredible distortion of Adorno and the Frankfurt School, which in itself makes it clear you did not even read the article. Why comment at all? It's amazing people are still standing their ground about "wokeness," I assure you they were worried about bigger things than that. They didn't even have the language of individual morality that "wokeness" implies, like we do now. They survived the holocaust! You think they were worried about what any given person should think about queer people or minorities? Like Adorno's music, I just hear dissonance here.
eli_gottlieb 5y ago
I don't even like the Frankfurt School that much, but Marcuse had a much bigger impact on what we see today.

by seneca 5y ago

pizza 5y ago

Not so. In fact I took a critical theory class in college (fell under religious studies, rather than political economy, interestingly). The professor started off the class with two things: 1. critical theory is about the study of what makes suffering persist in modern life 2. much of the critical theory works of the twentieth century are about the rise of fascism as well as the reality of the failure of Marxism. You'd do well to pinpoint the origins of your opinion -- someone fleeced you.

bitwize 5y ago
Critical theory already has an answer for what makes suffering persist in modern life: unjust power structures baked into society at all levels: political, social, economic, epistemological, and psychic. Critical theory is a framework/toolkit for uncovering and exposing those unjust power structures. Furthermore, the failure of Marxism and the rise of fascism are considered to be the same phenomenon. That is why, per Marcuse, only leftists deserved to speak freely: allowing other opinions to the table would only hasten the rise of the next Hitler.
- raxxorrax 5y ago
  It is not a good framework for analysis. It can be a tool, but using such an inductive lens can lead to you seeing power structures everywhere where none exist. Marcuse was a victim of fascism and sadly his wounds remained and influenced his texts.
- nikolay 5y ago
  There's no excuse for silencing voices, even Nazis ones as every inconvenient voice would be labeled a Nazi one easily! I'd rather know who has Nazis views and who has Marxist ones than live among people like in Iran where truths and genuine opinions are only shared at home. It was the same back in Communist Bulgaria up to 1989, so, please, ask people who've been through such a silencing-for-their-own-good regime - there are plenty of them around the globe!
  - raxxorrax 5y ago
    In Germany shortly after the Nazi problem we had another dictatorship that was against freedom of expression and severely restricted opinions. They were sure they were the good guys this time... It was very reactionary to nationalism. Adorno and consorts writings are often reactionary too, but they were real victims of fascism. They tried very hard to find an explanation for the reasons of the prosecution and sometimes got carried away. In this context most works are well worth a read. It might even be beneficial to know the works to not conflate their position with those of people that call for more content and opinion control. These people are not innocent, they happily condemn others and have a totalitarian world view. It is just much more difficult to oppose them because they can point to Nazi and declare themselves as opposition.
    - nikolay 5y ago
      Well, I know many victims of Communism in Bulgaria, who were silenced and now support silencing! And I don't get this!

jancsika 5y ago

Hey dang-- HN should implement per-sentence votes. The first sentence here is just a reference to Adorno's influence as part of the Frankfurt School. The second sentence is low-effort speculation. I need to be able to highlight the 2nd sentence and click the downvote button for it.

aspenmayer 5y ago
Or maybe do something like Genius or Medium and allow highlighting and selective comments?

beepbooptheory 5y ago

This is an incredible distortion of Adorno and the Frankfurt School, which in itself makes it clear you did not even read the article. Why comment at all? It's amazing people are still standing their ground about "wokeness," I assure you they were worried about bigger things than that. They didn't even have the language of individual morality that "wokeness" implies, like we do now. They survived the holocaust! You think they were worried about what any given person should think about queer people or minorities? Like Adorno's music, I just hear dissonance here.

eli_gottlieb 5y ago

I don't even like the Frankfurt School that much, but Marcuse had a much bigger impact on what we see today.