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There are no truly self driving cars, and probably won't be. When a traffic cop or school teacher holds up a hand to stop cars or say "turn left NOW", what trai

There are no truly self driving cars, and probably won't be. When a traffic cop or school teacher holds up a hand to stop cars or say "turn left NOW", what training data exists? There should be a much stronger involvement from cities / states legislating a ban on any kind of self-driving in these areas. (self-braking -- sure!) It will have to wait for a child to die, unfortunately. I'd like to see a self-lane-keeping lane on interstates with a 120 mph speed limit and concrete barriers. If we can have "Zero emissions" cars incentivized with access to HOV lanes, why not cars that can do a good job at lane-keeping and merge-scheduling in areas where there are exactly zero other distractions?

hotpotamus 5y ago
This reminds me of when I was driving in rural Texas a few months back and came across an apparently very recent accident involving a jack-knifed truck. The firefighters had just arrived on scene. While slowly and carefully driving around the accident, a firefighter got out seemed quite upset with me and seemed to be yelling something at me as loudly as he could, but I couldn't make out a word. I still have no idea if I did something wrong. Driving is 99.9% routine and boring and that .1% is ambiguous and quite potentially life threatening. I share the skepticism of self driving cars.
- _ea1k 5y ago
  I had someone go in front of me while circling his flashlight as if to proceed. When I did, he casually walked in front of me. He wasn't actually paying attention and was just flinging his light for directing traffic without thinking about it. Yeah, the .1% can be really ambiguous and dangerous.
- zip1234 5y ago
  Cars are made to be completely quiet inside them, which means there is limited way to communicate with those inside and also that horns are obnoxiously loud.
rootusrootus 5y ago
> It will have to wait for a child to die, unfortunately. Even then. The US has a pretty high tolerance for that.
- boredumb 5y ago
  Unless the death is being exploited in order to remove constitutionally protected liberties, the US has pretty close to zero tolerance for the death of minors.
dahfizz 5y ago
I agree with you. Real self driving is impossible, IMO. Current "AI" tech will never get us there. And even if we cracked real AGI, I don't see a reason to expect the computer intelligence to be a better driver than a human. AGI does not mean the absence of emotions, distractions, or miscalculations. We as a society should be realistic about the advantages and limitations of self driving technology. On a highway with well marked lanes and no construction, pedestrians, etc, self driving is awesome. That is the use case that should be optimized and encouraged by states. Everything else should realistically be banned.
- petters 5y ago
  > And even if we cracked real AGI, I don't see a reason to expect the computer intelligence to be a better driver than a human. You can't be serious. Human are notoriously bad in situations where nothing happens 99.9% of the time but requires quick reaction 0.1% of the time.
  - dahfizz 5y ago
    Why would a computer intelligence be any less prone to distraction?
    - bun_at_work 5y ago
      Easy - we can define the computer's objective function. Why would it get distracted by things it doesn't care about? Meanwhile, humans are checking Instagram and Pornhub while driving around.
      - nradov 5y ago
        Well we haven't invented AGI yet, and so we don't even know if it will be possible to control them with an objective function. So your opinion is entirely speculative and not based on any science.
        bun_at_work 5y ago
PeterisP 5y ago
> When a traffic cop or school teacher holds up a hand to stop cars or say "turn left NOW", what training data exists? This seems like one of the scenarios (multiple but limited in number) explicitly listed in traffic laws which might be scarce in randomly sampled driving data, however, is trivial to artificially manufacture in as large quantities as you need. Go to a local movie producer for their supply of uniform costumes and other varied clothing and the actors/extras to play the role of a traffic cop, and you can get quite a lot of training data in a single week on a budget that's trivial compared to most other self-driving car experiments.
- jmpman 5y ago
  If a cop is directing traffic, you should obey them. But what if they’re next to a construction worker, a cowboy, an Indian chief, a biker, and a sailor?

hotpotamus 5y ago

This reminds me of when I was driving in rural Texas a few months back and came across an apparently very recent accident involving a jack-knifed truck. The firefighters had just arrived on scene. While slowly and carefully driving around the accident, a firefighter got out seemed quite upset with me and seemed to be yelling something at me as loudly as he could, but I couldn't make out a word. I still have no idea if I did something wrong. Driving is 99.9% routine and boring and that .1% is ambiguous and quite potentially life threatening. I share the skepticism of self driving cars.

_ea1k 5y ago
I had someone go in front of me while circling his flashlight as if to proceed. When I did, he casually walked in front of me. He wasn't actually paying attention and was just flinging his light for directing traffic without thinking about it. Yeah, the .1% can be really ambiguous and dangerous.
zip1234 5y ago
Cars are made to be completely quiet inside them, which means there is limited way to communicate with those inside and also that horns are obnoxiously loud.

rootusrootus 5y ago

> It will have to wait for a child to die, unfortunately. Even then. The US has a pretty high tolerance for that.

boredumb 5y ago
Unless the death is being exploited in order to remove constitutionally protected liberties, the US has pretty close to zero tolerance for the death of minors.

dahfizz 5y ago

I agree with you. Real self driving is impossible, IMO. Current "AI" tech will never get us there. And even if we cracked real AGI, I don't see a reason to expect the computer intelligence to be a better driver than a human. AGI does not mean the absence of emotions, distractions, or miscalculations. We as a society should be realistic about the advantages and limitations of self driving technology. On a highway with well marked lanes and no construction, pedestrians, etc, self driving is awesome. That is the use case that should be optimized and encouraged by states. Everything else should realistically be banned.

petters 5y ago
> And even if we cracked real AGI, I don't see a reason to expect the computer intelligence to be a better driver than a human. You can't be serious. Human are notoriously bad in situations where nothing happens 99.9% of the time but requires quick reaction 0.1% of the time.
- dahfizz 5y ago
  Why would a computer intelligence be any less prone to distraction?
  - bun_at_work 5y ago
    Easy - we can define the computer's objective function. Why would it get distracted by things it doesn't care about? Meanwhile, humans are checking Instagram and Pornhub while driving around.
    - nradov 5y ago
      Well we haven't invented AGI yet, and so we don't even know if it will be possible to control them with an objective function. So your opinion is entirely speculative and not based on any science.
      - bun_at_work 5y ago

PeterisP 5y ago

> When a traffic cop or school teacher holds up a hand to stop cars or say "turn left NOW", what training data exists? This seems like one of the scenarios (multiple but limited in number) explicitly listed in traffic laws which might be scarce in randomly sampled driving data, however, is trivial to artificially manufacture in as large quantities as you need. Go to a local movie producer for their supply of uniform costumes and other varied clothing and the actors/extras to play the role of a traffic cop, and you can get quite a lot of training data in a single week on a budget that's trivial compared to most other self-driving car experiments.

jmpman 5y ago
If a cop is directing traffic, you should obey them. But what if they’re next to a construction worker, a cowboy, an Indian chief, a biker, and a sailor?