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It's about as illegal as breaking the speed limit Which, last I checked for the state of WA, is also illegal. Just because there isn’t a cop ticketing every ro

It's about as illegal as breaking the speed limit Which, last I checked for the state of WA, is also illegal. Just because there isn’t a cop ticketing every rolling stop at the intersection next to the elementary school by my house doesn’t make it “kind of okay because a lot of people do it”. It just means the municipality sucks at enforcement.

fallingknife 5y ago
But it's not just that there isn't a cop watching, it's that if there was, he still won't pull you over unless you're going 10+ mph over (more where I'm from!). So the official speed limit isn't really the law. Most cops also won't get you for a rolling stop unless it's egregious.
- lariati 5y ago
  Are you going to build in a random number generator then for self driving to add speed sometimes above the posted speed limit? Or a button to boost the speed above the state laws? It makes no sense when all you have to do is not use self driving.
- bryanlarsen 5y ago
Sohcahtoa82 5y ago
FWIW, if we're trying to maximize safety, then violating speed limits is often a must. If the speed limit is 60 mph, but everybody is going 75 mph, then the safest speed for you as an individual is going to be 75 mph. Otherwise, you're a rolling road block, likely to get rear-ended, forcing tons of cars to change lanes to get around you.
- eproxus 5y ago
  Well, that’s the purely driver oriented point of view. Speed limits exist for other reasons, e.g. when going through pedestrian heavy areas. Going above the speed limit there endangers lives (regardless of if everyone else is doing it or not).
  - Dylan16807 5y ago
    They said "often". There are no pedestrians on that 60mph road. When it's 35 vs. 40 it's a lot safer to sit at the speed limit. And in a 25 zone there's not really a flow of traffic to worry about.
  - Sohcahtoa82 5y ago
    I could have been more explicit, I suppose. On surface streets, speed limits are usually quite reasonable. In all the streets I drive regularly, I think the limits are good, except for one stretch where it has two lanes in each direction, and so I often want to go 45 mph, but the limit is 35, likely because there are some houses that directly face the street. It's highways that often have unreasonably slow speed limits, at least here in Oregon.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- asdff 5y ago
  Chances are the turns on the highway are designed to be taken at the speed limit. Sure go ahead and go 75mph with the crowd, don't be surprised when one day its you who is leaving a bumper behind on the freeway. Also on residential streets speeding is simply unaceptible. At 35mph an impact with a pedestrian will kill them 70% of the time. At 50 mph that goes up to nearly all of the time. We shouldn't favor serving impatient people over the safety of others. If the issue is everyone is going 75mph and its dangerous for self driving cars to go 65mph, then we should install speed cameras that send tickets to people who go 75mph rather than letting self driving cars also break the law and drive at dangerous speeds that our road infrastructure is not designed to handle.
  - FireBeyond 5y ago
    Technically, highway (construction) code is that roads are engineered such that turns and such can be navigated safely at 15mph above the speed limit (or of 'cautionary speeds'). I state the above entirely on its own merits, not as a judgment of "should I or should I not travel at speed X on this road".
    - asdff 5y ago
      Maybe thats true with modern code, but thousands of interchanges across the country that aren't being reconfigured anytime soon have those yellow recommended speed signs that imo should be headed in many cases
- mikestew 5y ago
  All you've done is to make an argument for speed governors. If the speed limit is 60mph, but everyone is going 75mph, then the point of "automated self-driving can't come fast enough, humans can't be trusted to pilot automobiles!" is self-evident. Argue all day if you like about whether the number on the sign is wrong, but that discussion belongs elsewhere.
  - Sohcahtoa82 5y ago
    A fair point. Indeed, I think speed limits on freeways are too low, but that's another discussion.
    - mikestew 5y ago
      I see from another comment that you’re in OR. That explains why you think freeway limits are too low. :-) (The joke here is that OR’s speed limit on highways is typically 10mph below that of other PNW states, even in the “least populated county in the U. S.)
      - seanmcdirmid 5y ago
        Having driven a lot in central and eastern OR, the roads are a bit winding, and even on the interstate going through the blue mountains can be a bit seat of the pants. They probably just never saw the roads safe enough to raise the speed limit.

fallingknife 5y ago

But it's not just that there isn't a cop watching, it's that if there was, he still won't pull you over unless you're going 10+ mph over (more where I'm from!). So the official speed limit isn't really the law. Most cops also won't get you for a rolling stop unless it's egregious.

lariati 5y ago
Are you going to build in a random number generator then for self driving to add speed sometimes above the posted speed limit? Or a button to boost the speed above the state laws? It makes no sense when all you have to do is not use self driving.
bryanlarsen 5y ago

Sohcahtoa82 5y ago

FWIW, if we're trying to maximize safety, then violating speed limits is often a must. If the speed limit is 60 mph, but everybody is going 75 mph, then the safest speed for you as an individual is going to be 75 mph. Otherwise, you're a rolling road block, likely to get rear-ended, forcing tons of cars to change lanes to get around you.

eproxus 5y ago
Well, that’s the purely driver oriented point of view. Speed limits exist for other reasons, e.g. when going through pedestrian heavy areas. Going above the speed limit there endangers lives (regardless of if everyone else is doing it or not).
- Dylan16807 5y ago
  They said "often". There are no pedestrians on that 60mph road. When it's 35 vs. 40 it's a lot safer to sit at the speed limit. And in a 25 zone there's not really a flow of traffic to worry about.
- Sohcahtoa82 5y ago
  I could have been more explicit, I suppose. On surface streets, speed limits are usually quite reasonable. In all the streets I drive regularly, I think the limits are good, except for one stretch where it has two lanes in each direction, and so I often want to go 45 mph, but the limit is 35, likely because there are some houses that directly face the street. It's highways that often have unreasonably slow speed limits, at least here in Oregon.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
asdff 5y ago
Chances are the turns on the highway are designed to be taken at the speed limit. Sure go ahead and go 75mph with the crowd, don't be surprised when one day its you who is leaving a bumper behind on the freeway. Also on residential streets speeding is simply unaceptible. At 35mph an impact with a pedestrian will kill them 70% of the time. At 50 mph that goes up to nearly all of the time. We shouldn't favor serving impatient people over the safety of others. If the issue is everyone is going 75mph and its dangerous for self driving cars to go 65mph, then we should install speed cameras that send tickets to people who go 75mph rather than letting self driving cars also break the law and drive at dangerous speeds that our road infrastructure is not designed to handle.
- FireBeyond 5y ago
  Technically, highway (construction) code is that roads are engineered such that turns and such can be navigated safely at 15mph above the speed limit (or of 'cautionary speeds'). I state the above entirely on its own merits, not as a judgment of "should I or should I not travel at speed X on this road".
  - asdff 5y ago
    Maybe thats true with modern code, but thousands of interchanges across the country that aren't being reconfigured anytime soon have those yellow recommended speed signs that imo should be headed in many cases
mikestew 5y ago
All you've done is to make an argument for speed governors. If the speed limit is 60mph, but everyone is going 75mph, then the point of "automated self-driving can't come fast enough, humans can't be trusted to pilot automobiles!" is self-evident. Argue all day if you like about whether the number on the sign is wrong, but that discussion belongs elsewhere.
- Sohcahtoa82 5y ago
  A fair point. Indeed, I think speed limits on freeways are too low, but that's another discussion.
  - mikestew 5y ago
    I see from another comment that you’re in OR. That explains why you think freeway limits are too low. :-) (The joke here is that OR’s speed limit on highways is typically 10mph below that of other PNW states, even in the “least populated county in the U. S.)
    - seanmcdirmid 5y ago
      Having driven a lot in central and eastern OR, the roads are a bit winding, and even on the interstate going through the blue mountains can be a bit seat of the pants. They probably just never saw the roads safe enough to raise the speed limit.