9 ms·

Smart devices are overly complex. The entire point should have been to make devices work for you, but now when you buy a ‘smart’ washing machine, it requires yo

by krm01 5y ago

Smart devices are overly complex. The entire point should have been to make devices work for you, but now when you buy a ‘smart’ washing machine, it requires you 30min of setup. Downloading apps, connecting it to wifi, providing GPS location etc. why? What’s the point. We need devices that make life simpler. Straight out of the box.

quacked 5y ago
Are there any regulation barriers to selling "dumb" devices in the modern market? I've made the same point about pickup trucks--the 2002 Toyota Tacoma is a far preferable vehicle than the 2022 Toyota Tacoma for many truck owners, but when I've brought that up, people have pointed out that a number of laws make it impossible to sell a clone of the old version (must have backup cameras, must have X, must have Y, etc.)
- pmontra 5y ago
  I think incumbents love over regulation. A wider and wider moat.
  - rootusrootus 5y ago
    Does not seem to be working, at least not in the automotive market. We have several new startups in the space taking a real swipe at the incumbents.
- alistairSH 5y ago
  All those things mandated for cars are related to safety. Back-up cameras are required to prevent drivers from running over small children. ABS and stability control to prevent crashes. Etc. And none of them, in a simple implementation, reduce the usability of the car/truck. No such mandates exist for home appliances. The connectivity/apps are purely a money-grab - either people like the general idea of connected devices, or the manufacturer thinks they can monetize that connectivity post-sale (or likely some combination of the two).
  - sneak 5y ago
    > All those things mandated for cars are related to safety. I believe that the current EU mandate for cars is that they must have cellular connectivity, which is of course for calling emergency services in a crash. I think "ostensibly for safety" is a better description of some of it.
    - stragies 5y ago
      Don't forget the "Remote-force-stop" functionality, that all new cars must have in some territories. Using that same network-connection to access the rear bumper-cam to automatically search for "interesting" license-plates is just an added bonus for LEO.
      - EricE 5y ago
        Ugh - reenforces why I am babying the crap out of my existing "dumb" cars and have zero intentions of getting a new car any time soon - if ever!
        sneak 5y ago
        The safety innovations in new cars are great. The BT/Wi-Fi and GSM radios can be physically removed or disabled.
        stragies 5y ago
        Don't you then loose the validity of the "road worthiness certificate"? That would thus equate to operating a multi-ton unlicensed machine in public. I would expect it to be called "reckless endangerment" at least, if they catch you with disabled eCall.
    - disgruntledphd2 5y ago
      Wow, I thought you must be wrong, but apparently this does exist. https://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/travel/security-and-emergencies/emergency-assistance-vehicles-ecall/index_en.htm https://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/travel/security-and-em... However, this only activates and sends data in the event of a crash. Additionally, under EU law consent would be needed for any other uses of this data (and hell no would I be giving consent).
- xenonite 5y ago
  For example in the EU, the eCall 'feature' is a must since April 2018. I guess that removing it from the car afterwards entails loss of street-legality.
- thefourthchime 5y ago
  Outside of extremely low quality no name televisions. I don't think it's possible to buy a dumb TV anymore. TV manufacturers I found a revenue streams by including Roku or Android TV bundle in.
- Vrondi 5y ago
  It is relatively easy to add a new stereo that has a screen which can display a backup camera to an old truck. It doesn't need to have been original factory equipment to be adequate. I did this for a 2003 vehicle. I have backup camera/Android Auto/CarPlay/etc. If you don't feel up to it, you can have it done for less than a grand at a really good car audio installer, and then you have the more reliable vehicle. Of course, this depends where you live and what is required.
WilTimSon 5y ago
To play devil's advocate, that's one-time setup, it's not like you have to do it every time you launch a dishwasher. I still see little value in "smart" devices but it's not like they actively make you work more for the same result. I'm more worried about everything being dependent on WiFi and your personal data.
- ninkendo 5y ago
  If every little thing you buy has a similar "one-time setup", you're going to be doing a lot of setting things up in your average day/week/month.
  - WilTimSon 5y ago
    But the only things that have them are appliances. I rarely buy appliances, once in, I dunno, five years? Maybe rarer?
mrweasel 5y ago
My dad got a smart heater, for my parents holiday home. The idea is that he can check temperature, and prevent frost damage from home. Yesterday he ask: "What happens it the company that makes the App decides that they don't what to do that anymore, or they go out of business?". Well, then the smart thingy stops being smart.
- fsflover 5y ago
  This is exactly why Stallman invented free software: https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-software-even-more-important.en.html https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-software-even-more-impor....
  - micromacrofoot 5y ago
    Ehh... this is more like "people don't want software on their Dishwasher" rather than "people want free software on their dishwasher"
    - stragies 5y ago
      Maybe we are different, but I enjoy comforts like "Schedule run for lower cost nighttime running", "Alert me, when the Finishing liquid is starting to run low, so that HomeAssitant can add it to my shopping list", "Automatically measure some values of my (drinking) water supply, and tell HomeAssistant about them". "Set a status in HomeAssistant, when a run has finished"...
      - dpark 5y ago
        Normal dishwashers solve for this with a button or knob labeled “delay”. Breaking out an app to set the dishwasher to start late songs much less convenient. Occasionally I wish I had more granularity on the delay but never have I wanted an app to do it. I don’t know what I’d do with any of that other stuff. Does your dishwasher actually try to measure water quality? Because that seems like a really poor fit. I wouldn’t trust water quality measurements coming out of my dishwasher anyway. It’s measuring hot water which isn’t what you should be drinking, and I’d give it a 99% chance that the person who crammed those sensors in didn’t do a good job of insulating them from the heat, vibration, etc.
catern 5y ago
A washing machine already requires a fair amount of time spent on installation. I don't think "it doesn't work out of the box" is a good argument when talking about 200 pound appliances that have to be hooked up to your plumbing.
- Vrondi 5y ago
  Bring it in. Screw hoses onto taps. Plug into electrical socket. Check level. Done. That's usually the entire process. Why would anyone want to complicate such a simple thing? Only the absolutely lowest end student slum apartments where I live (in a very not-rich state) don't already have a washer hookup/tap. Any home a person would actually purchase would have one already, so no effort.

by krm01 5y ago

quacked 5y ago

Are there any regulation barriers to selling "dumb" devices in the modern market? I've made the same point about pickup trucks--the 2002 Toyota Tacoma is a far preferable vehicle than the 2022 Toyota Tacoma for many truck owners, but when I've brought that up, people have pointed out that a number of laws make it impossible to sell a clone of the old version (must have backup cameras, must have X, must have Y, etc.)

pmontra 5y ago
I think incumbents love over regulation. A wider and wider moat.
- rootusrootus 5y ago
  Does not seem to be working, at least not in the automotive market. We have several new startups in the space taking a real swipe at the incumbents.
alistairSH 5y ago
All those things mandated for cars are related to safety. Back-up cameras are required to prevent drivers from running over small children. ABS and stability control to prevent crashes. Etc. And none of them, in a simple implementation, reduce the usability of the car/truck. No such mandates exist for home appliances. The connectivity/apps are purely a money-grab - either people like the general idea of connected devices, or the manufacturer thinks they can monetize that connectivity post-sale (or likely some combination of the two).
- sneak 5y ago
  > All those things mandated for cars are related to safety. I believe that the current EU mandate for cars is that they must have cellular connectivity, which is of course for calling emergency services in a crash. I think "ostensibly for safety" is a better description of some of it.
  - stragies 5y ago
    Don't forget the "Remote-force-stop" functionality, that all new cars must have in some territories. Using that same network-connection to access the rear bumper-cam to automatically search for "interesting" license-plates is just an added bonus for LEO.
    - EricE 5y ago
      Ugh - reenforces why I am babying the crap out of my existing "dumb" cars and have zero intentions of getting a new car any time soon - if ever!
      - sneak 5y ago
        The safety innovations in new cars are great. The BT/Wi-Fi and GSM radios can be physically removed or disabled.
        stragies 5y ago
        Don't you then loose the validity of the "road worthiness certificate"? That would thus equate to operating a multi-ton unlicensed machine in public. I would expect it to be called "reckless endangerment" at least, if they catch you with disabled eCall.
  - disgruntledphd2 5y ago
    Wow, I thought you must be wrong, but apparently this does exist. https://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/travel/security-and-emergencies/emergency-assistance-vehicles-ecall/index_en.htm https://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/travel/security-and-em... However, this only activates and sends data in the event of a crash. Additionally, under EU law consent would be needed for any other uses of this data (and hell no would I be giving consent).
xenonite 5y ago
For example in the EU, the eCall 'feature' is a must since April 2018. I guess that removing it from the car afterwards entails loss of street-legality.
thefourthchime 5y ago
Outside of extremely low quality no name televisions. I don't think it's possible to buy a dumb TV anymore. TV manufacturers I found a revenue streams by including Roku or Android TV bundle in.
Vrondi 5y ago
It is relatively easy to add a new stereo that has a screen which can display a backup camera to an old truck. It doesn't need to have been original factory equipment to be adequate. I did this for a 2003 vehicle. I have backup camera/Android Auto/CarPlay/etc. If you don't feel up to it, you can have it done for less than a grand at a really good car audio installer, and then you have the more reliable vehicle. Of course, this depends where you live and what is required.

WilTimSon 5y ago

To play devil's advocate, that's one-time setup, it's not like you have to do it every time you launch a dishwasher. I still see little value in "smart" devices but it's not like they actively make you work more for the same result. I'm more worried about everything being dependent on WiFi and your personal data.

ninkendo 5y ago
If every little thing you buy has a similar "one-time setup", you're going to be doing a lot of setting things up in your average day/week/month.
- WilTimSon 5y ago
  But the only things that have them are appliances. I rarely buy appliances, once in, I dunno, five years? Maybe rarer?

mrweasel 5y ago

My dad got a smart heater, for my parents holiday home. The idea is that he can check temperature, and prevent frost damage from home. Yesterday he ask: "What happens it the company that makes the App decides that they don't what to do that anymore, or they go out of business?". Well, then the smart thingy stops being smart.

fsflover 5y ago
This is exactly why Stallman invented free software: https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-software-even-more-important.en.html https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-software-even-more-impor....
- micromacrofoot 5y ago
  Ehh... this is more like "people don't want software on their Dishwasher" rather than "people want free software on their dishwasher"
  - stragies 5y ago
    Maybe we are different, but I enjoy comforts like "Schedule run for lower cost nighttime running", "Alert me, when the Finishing liquid is starting to run low, so that HomeAssitant can add it to my shopping list", "Automatically measure some values of my (drinking) water supply, and tell HomeAssistant about them". "Set a status in HomeAssistant, when a run has finished"...
    - dpark 5y ago
      Normal dishwashers solve for this with a button or knob labeled “delay”. Breaking out an app to set the dishwasher to start late songs much less convenient. Occasionally I wish I had more granularity on the delay but never have I wanted an app to do it. I don’t know what I’d do with any of that other stuff. Does your dishwasher actually try to measure water quality? Because that seems like a really poor fit. I wouldn’t trust water quality measurements coming out of my dishwasher anyway. It’s measuring hot water which isn’t what you should be drinking, and I’d give it a 99% chance that the person who crammed those sensors in didn’t do a good job of insulating them from the heat, vibration, etc.

catern 5y ago

A washing machine already requires a fair amount of time spent on installation. I don't think "it doesn't work out of the box" is a good argument when talking about 200 pound appliances that have to be hooked up to your plumbing.

Vrondi 5y ago
Bring it in. Screw hoses onto taps. Plug into electrical socket. Check level. Done. That's usually the entire process. Why would anyone want to complicate such a simple thing? Only the absolutely lowest end student slum apartments where I live (in a very not-rich state) don't already have a washer hookup/tap. Any home a person would actually purchase would have one already, so no effort.