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I know people doing docker dev are generally targeting a Linux of some sort, but why the heck doesn't the macOS kernel support native containerization? Come on
by riffic 5y ago
I know people doing docker dev are generally targeting a Linux of some sort, but why the heck doesn't the macOS kernel support native containerization?
Come on Apple. Microsoft can do it.
edit: this seems like a new development since my last whine/complaint on this topic:
https://macoscontainers.org/ https://macoscontainers.org/
- CubsFan1060 5y agoThat URL got me excited, but didn't seem to be a lot of progress on it in the last 6 months or s.
- pjmlp 5y agoAlthough just today I was having some Windows containers hiccups, I am looking forward to the day that Microsoft doesn't require installing a third party solution (Docker) to use them.
- zamalek 5y agoInstall a WSL machine. Install docker (or containerd, or whatever) in it. Install docker-cli on your host, then use `docker context` to use the server in WSL. 20min of effort if your Google fu is good. If you need something like the docker desktop UI, check out portainer.
- pjmlp 5y agoThanks it doesn't help for Windows containers, that was my point.
- tda 5y agoAnd for anyone looking to migrate away from docker desktop on Windows for use with VSCode I wrote this guide: https://gist.github.com/tdamsma/06cafea175d6784aea7b3634bb9495c8 https://gist.github.com/tdamsma/06cafea175d6784aea7b3634bb94...
- conradludgate 5y agoBecause most people want to run Linux containers (to get the same environment as their servers)
- minerva23 5y ago> why the heck doesn't the macOS kernel support native containerization? Because Apple has no plans of growing their server OS marketshare. I know there are benefits of using namespaces (containers) in the desktop market, but they don't sell iMacs/MBPs. Exterior design and heavy marketing is their sales strategy.
- Langdal 5y agoAlso creating their own SoC that outperforms others in the space.
- riffic 5y agocontainerization won't just help in the server-space. It has use-cases in app development like CI.
- smoldesu 5y agoApple would like you to move to XCode Cloud[0] in the future, running CI pipelines on your local device is soooo last-century. [0] https://developer.apple.com/xcode-cloud/ https://developer.apple.com/xcode-cloud/
- Toine 5y ago"Exterior design and heavy marketing is their sales strategy" this is old, boring and not even true.
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- sjtindell 5y agoI never understood this, because surely some huge percentage of developers use Macs. Enterprises buy stacks of them nonstop. Just making that group happy would get you the reputation of being a developers machine, for serious computer people, which could translate into laymen purchases too.
- asdff 5y agoI have used the native launch agent system in macos to do what some people use docker containers for.
- whartung 5y agoDo you have this written up anyplace sharable?
- asdff 5y agoNo, but basically this would apply to like little services that might run on docker locally on my mac. Say you have a Dockerfile that uses pip to install some stuff and run a python script. There are a few tools on github I use that are configured like this. To run it without docker, I would write up a simple launch agent plist file that calls up another script that just initializes a conda environment with the dependencies and runs the python. this might not be applicable to all docker use cases, though, but it works well enough for me.
- 0xedd 5y ago
- skrtskrt 5y agoI have worked at 4 small-to-mid-sized tech companies now and only one didn't have every software engineer on Macs with Docker. I don't disagree that the built-in tools on Mac leave a lot to be desired, but you can also just brew install things and clearly Docker has gone to a lot of effort to make this all work on Mac, so the demand is there. I switched to Linux for the current company, and was expecting fewer Docker oddities and better battery life, but I seem to actually have way more issues now, which - without sinking a week or more into investigating transient issues - I attribute to it not being isolated in a VM. I often have to reboot my machine just to get basic DNS resolution working from inside a container
- kstrauser 5y ago> macOS is mainly targeted at secretaries, managers and artists. Counterpoint: I've never seen someone in the Bay Area developing on a Windows machine, in any company I've worked at. In my experience, locally, it's more like 95% Mac, 5% Linux, and 0% Windows. Now, I know that neither of our anecdotes represent the state of the world in general, but the notion that "Macs are for non-techies" is laughable on the face of it.
- dekhn 5y agoI had a windows laptop a few times while working. I much prefer it to Mac laptops (which is what I've been made to use most of the time), or even linux laptops. Most of my dev work targets linux but with visual studio code remote, or a shell, or a remote desktop, what I run on the local machine is less important. What is important is having a set of keystrokes that make sense to me (the mac command button does not work well on my PC laptops, and remapping just makes stuff worse) and don't change over decades.
- kstrauser 5y agoI’m fine with that. Develop on a C64 if you’re efficient with it for all I care. I don’t like using Windows because it feels strange and all the keyboard shortcuts are wrong to me. What’s uncool is making fun of it, and by extension people who use and like it, as a toy for people who aren’t technically sophisticated. That’s right up there with “iPhones are for sheep LOL” as far as things that make the speaker sound a lot worse than the people they’re talking about.
- jokethrowaway 5y agoIndeed, with windows' linux subsystem I have to say working from M$ sounds reasonable, maybe even better than dealing with Mac OS X half-baked package managers and subpar docker experience. It used to be that Windows had a better UX than OS X (imho at least), but nowadays they're equally crap and they can't compare with what's available on linux. With two machines, I'd still pick Windows for gaming dev and linux for everything else. With three machines, I'd add a screen-less mac mini to do iOS related builds.
- musicale 5y ago> why the heck doesn't the macOS kernel support native containerization It doesn't seem like a huge leap from sandboxing to containerization. They also might consider supporting BSD-style jails.
- mr_toad 5y agoI don’t think it’s lack of support so much as lack of demand. MacOS containers sound like a solution looking for a problem.