3 ms·

I just went over to the Penn DOT website to see how many other bridges around the state are in "poor" condition. Answer: 4,157. :-O. There's even more local b

I just went over to the Penn DOT website to see how many other bridges around the state are in "poor" condition. Answer: 4,157. :-O. There's even more local bridges in "poor" condition than in "good" condition. Screens of the report (server is slow): https://ibb.co/YjZDSWr https://ibb.co/YjZDSWr https://ibb.co/zFCtmCp https://ibb.co/zFCtmCp Tool links: https://gis.penndot.gov/paprojects/BridgeConditionsMap.aspx# https://gis.penndot.gov/paprojects/BridgeConditionsMap.aspx# https://gis.penndot.gov/paprojects/Reports/BridgeConditionsReport.aspx?aoiType=statewide&aoiValue=42 https://gis.penndot.gov/paprojects/Reports/BridgeConditionsR...

bmitc 5y ago
This is the type of stuff that concerns me heavily. As I drive across bridges or walk across them, I'm always wondering about who checks up on them. I always try to convince myself that someone is and that there's followups to things. I think when I was younger, I always assumed that someone was taking care of things, and then as I get older, I found out no one really is. I wonder if there's a tipping point for American infrastructure and institutions, just like there will be with climate change. There's only so much you can push growth, tax breaks for the wealthy, corruption, etc. and not see eventual repercussions.
- nradov 5y ago
  It turns out that sometimes no one is checking. https://apnews.com/article/business-lifestyle-681c35ee3afdd47d97978b0fdb7a448c https://apnews.com/article/business-lifestyle-681c35ee3afdd4...
mysterydip 5y ago
As a former resident of the Pittsburgh region, it's not surprising. It seems like the same problem as convincing business owners to invest in backup or disaster recovery solutions. No one who can do anything about it cares until the worst happens, and then it's too late.
bpodgursky 5y ago
I just want to throw this out as a counterpoint to the "our infrastructure is crumbling" narrative: https://www.slowboring.com/p/roads-and-bridges https://www.slowboring.com/p/roads-and-bridges (look specifically at the bridge part) Which isn't to say there aren't targeted places we should improve, but I think these discussions often boil down to "everything is awful and unmaintained" which isn't true.
- LegitShady 5y ago
  I think the big deal here is the difference between local and national levels. The levels of gun from in the United States are high. The levels of gun crime in Detroit are catastrophic. Overall the level of infrastructure across the nation is ok. In some areas the level of infrastructure is catastrophic and local funding probably won't improve it any time soon. A bridge collapsing is a big deal especially in urban areas. I can only wonder at the luck that seems to have avoided mass casualties in this case.
- thehappypm 5y ago
  All infrastructure is always crumbling. Nothing ever gets better with age, from the second a project is done it starts “crumbling”.
  - giantg2 5y ago
    Not exactly true. Concrete gets stronger as it cures. It can take months or years to cure (or decades for the Hoover dam). So technically it gets better with some aging.
- giantg2 5y ago
  "these discussions often boil down to "everything is awful and unmaintained" which isn't true." Have you been to western PA? (Half serious)
notacoward 5y ago
It's not just PA, unfortunately. It's every state. I don't even need to look up the numbers in my own state (MA) because I've been paying enough attention to know already that "far too many" will be the answer. We've been neglecting this kind of infrastructure for far too long, because there's not enough political capital in making it a priority. Nobody cares until after the disasters happen. Just like computer security, I guess.
- thehappypm 5y ago
  MA at least is willing to improve things. I think the best example is the upcoming Allston throat I-90 viaduct replacement. Today, the interstate is elevated above another minor highway, in a narrow strip of land between Boston University and the Charles River, which also includes a bike path and pedestrian walkway AND a major rail artery. The viaduct is in need of replacement, and viaducts are way, way more expensive to maintain than at-grade highways. The new plan is pretty impressive: thanks in part to Boston University giving up some land, the planners found a way to squeeze everything onto the ground level, with the two highways, the railroad, and the pedestrian area all side-by-side. It’s kind of a mess to have so much going on in the throat, but it checks all the boxes, and is a more future-proof solution than building yet another viaduct that won’t last. That project is gonna SUCK for commuters and cost a fortune, but the end state will be a better, safer, easier-to-maintain critical piece of infrastructure that supports cars, buses, rail, bikers, and pedestrians.
- throwaway0a5e 5y ago
  MA's problem is they spent all their money for 30yr on the big dig leaving nothing left for anything beyond the most minimal maintenance of every other piece of infrastructure. Basically everything got rode hard and put away wet for 30yr. That'll come back to bite them but the people responsible will be comfortably retired by then.
- volkl48 5y ago
  Ah, but you should, as MA has increased infrastructure spending (at least in this area) and started to see results for it. MA bridge condition improved over the past decade fairly significantly, about $3bn was spent on the Accelerated Bridge Program that was authorized in 2008 and concluded around ~2017. You can look at the more details and the results here: https://www.mass.gov/service-details/accelerated-bridge-program-abp-update https://www.mass.gov/service-details/accelerated-bridge-prog... Last year's transportation bill (which passed) cues up various additional infrastructure investment, including another $1.25bn for state bridge work (+$70m for small local bridges), and is projected to reduce the % of bridges in poor condition further over the next couple of years. There are some nice slides here about where things are projected to go over the next few years thanks to that (11 + 14 in particular). Generally speaking, you can expect to see continued improvement in roadway infrastructure in the state. https://files.engineers.org/file/ACECMA-2021-Highway.pdf https://files.engineers.org/file/ACECMA-2021-Highway.pdf And that was all before the federal infrastructure bill. --------- I am less familiar with PA, but AFAIK they hiked their gas tax significantly to raise infrastructure spending a few years back. Whether it was enough or not I don't know. However, as MA illustrates, it takes a while of making sustained investments to start to see noticeable results and dig yourself out of long-term infrastructure investment deficits.
nr2x 5y ago
I once had the opportunity to visit a department of homeland security fusion center in Philadelphia. They had walls of displays showing surveillance cameras looking at bridges that were actively rusting apart. You would think the better public safety investment would be fewer fusion centers and more bridges that aren't rusting.
34679 5y ago
This surprises me. My only experience with Pennsylvania was making the mistake of not unchecking "Avoid Tolls" when driving across the state. I got a bill for over $80 for taking the turnpike. That's one way on a single day in a normal passenger vehicle without a trailer. I thought I had been busted by a speed camera or something, because an amount like that is closer to a fine than any toll I've ever paid. I would've thought they used that money for infrastructure.

bmitc 5y ago

This is the type of stuff that concerns me heavily. As I drive across bridges or walk across them, I'm always wondering about who checks up on them. I always try to convince myself that someone is and that there's followups to things. I think when I was younger, I always assumed that someone was taking care of things, and then as I get older, I found out no one really is. I wonder if there's a tipping point for American infrastructure and institutions, just like there will be with climate change. There's only so much you can push growth, tax breaks for the wealthy, corruption, etc. and not see eventual repercussions.

nradov 5y ago
It turns out that sometimes no one is checking. https://apnews.com/article/business-lifestyle-681c35ee3afdd47d97978b0fdb7a448c https://apnews.com/article/business-lifestyle-681c35ee3afdd4...

mysterydip 5y ago

As a former resident of the Pittsburgh region, it's not surprising. It seems like the same problem as convincing business owners to invest in backup or disaster recovery solutions. No one who can do anything about it cares until the worst happens, and then it's too late.

bpodgursky 5y ago

I just want to throw this out as a counterpoint to the "our infrastructure is crumbling" narrative: https://www.slowboring.com/p/roads-and-bridges https://www.slowboring.com/p/roads-and-bridges (look specifically at the bridge part) Which isn't to say there aren't targeted places we should improve, but I think these discussions often boil down to "everything is awful and unmaintained" which isn't true.

LegitShady 5y ago
I think the big deal here is the difference between local and national levels. The levels of gun from in the United States are high. The levels of gun crime in Detroit are catastrophic. Overall the level of infrastructure across the nation is ok. In some areas the level of infrastructure is catastrophic and local funding probably won't improve it any time soon. A bridge collapsing is a big deal especially in urban areas. I can only wonder at the luck that seems to have avoided mass casualties in this case.
thehappypm 5y ago
All infrastructure is always crumbling. Nothing ever gets better with age, from the second a project is done it starts “crumbling”.
- giantg2 5y ago
  Not exactly true. Concrete gets stronger as it cures. It can take months or years to cure (or decades for the Hoover dam). So technically it gets better with some aging.
giantg2 5y ago
"these discussions often boil down to "everything is awful and unmaintained" which isn't true." Have you been to western PA? (Half serious)

notacoward 5y ago

It's not just PA, unfortunately. It's every state. I don't even need to look up the numbers in my own state (MA) because I've been paying enough attention to know already that "far too many" will be the answer. We've been neglecting this kind of infrastructure for far too long, because there's not enough political capital in making it a priority. Nobody cares until after the disasters happen. Just like computer security, I guess.

thehappypm 5y ago
MA at least is willing to improve things. I think the best example is the upcoming Allston throat I-90 viaduct replacement. Today, the interstate is elevated above another minor highway, in a narrow strip of land between Boston University and the Charles River, which also includes a bike path and pedestrian walkway AND a major rail artery. The viaduct is in need of replacement, and viaducts are way, way more expensive to maintain than at-grade highways. The new plan is pretty impressive: thanks in part to Boston University giving up some land, the planners found a way to squeeze everything onto the ground level, with the two highways, the railroad, and the pedestrian area all side-by-side. It’s kind of a mess to have so much going on in the throat, but it checks all the boxes, and is a more future-proof solution than building yet another viaduct that won’t last. That project is gonna SUCK for commuters and cost a fortune, but the end state will be a better, safer, easier-to-maintain critical piece of infrastructure that supports cars, buses, rail, bikers, and pedestrians.
throwaway0a5e 5y ago
MA's problem is they spent all their money for 30yr on the big dig leaving nothing left for anything beyond the most minimal maintenance of every other piece of infrastructure. Basically everything got rode hard and put away wet for 30yr. That'll come back to bite them but the people responsible will be comfortably retired by then.
volkl48 5y ago
Ah, but you should, as MA has increased infrastructure spending (at least in this area) and started to see results for it. MA bridge condition improved over the past decade fairly significantly, about $3bn was spent on the Accelerated Bridge Program that was authorized in 2008 and concluded around ~2017. You can look at the more details and the results here: https://www.mass.gov/service-details/accelerated-bridge-program-abp-update https://www.mass.gov/service-details/accelerated-bridge-prog... Last year's transportation bill (which passed) cues up various additional infrastructure investment, including another $1.25bn for state bridge work (+$70m for small local bridges), and is projected to reduce the % of bridges in poor condition further over the next couple of years. There are some nice slides here about where things are projected to go over the next few years thanks to that (11 + 14 in particular). Generally speaking, you can expect to see continued improvement in roadway infrastructure in the state. https://files.engineers.org/file/ACECMA-2021-Highway.pdf https://files.engineers.org/file/ACECMA-2021-Highway.pdf And that was all before the federal infrastructure bill. --------- I am less familiar with PA, but AFAIK they hiked their gas tax significantly to raise infrastructure spending a few years back. Whether it was enough or not I don't know. However, as MA illustrates, it takes a while of making sustained investments to start to see noticeable results and dig yourself out of long-term infrastructure investment deficits.

nr2x 5y ago

I once had the opportunity to visit a department of homeland security fusion center in Philadelphia. They had walls of displays showing surveillance cameras looking at bridges that were actively rusting apart. You would think the better public safety investment would be fewer fusion centers and more bridges that aren't rusting.

34679 5y ago

This surprises me. My only experience with Pennsylvania was making the mistake of not unchecking "Avoid Tolls" when driving across the state. I got a bill for over $80 for taking the turnpike. That's one way on a single day in a normal passenger vehicle without a trailer. I thought I had been busted by a speed camera or something, because an amount like that is closer to a fine than any toll I've ever paid. I would've thought they used that money for infrastructure.