9 ms·

Reads like you can just make an oath in front of a notary public (no need to have the supervisors supervise or anything): https://www.legis.state.pa.us/cfdocs/

Reads like you can just make an oath in front of a notary public (no need to have the supervisors supervise or anything): https://www.legis.state.pa.us/cfdocs/legis/LI/uconsCheck.cfm?txtType=HTM&yr=1933&sessInd=0&smthLwInd=0&act=69&chpt=5&sctn=1&subsctn=0 https://www.legis.state.pa.us/cfdocs/legis/LI/uconsCheck.cfm... The hired accountant does get most of the powers: https://www.legis.state.pa.us/cfdocs/legis/LI/uconsCheck.cfm?txtType=HTM&yr=1933&sessInd=0&smthLwInd=0&act=69&chpt=9&sctn=17&subsctn=0 https://www.legis.state.pa.us/cfdocs/legis/LI/uconsCheck.cfm... But not the power to set compensation for the township supervisors: The board of auditors shall determine the compensations for the current year authorized in section 606 for supervisors employed by the township. https://www.legis.state.pa.us/cfdocs/legis/LI/uconsCheck.cfm?txtType=HTM&yr=1933&sessInd=0&smthLwInd=0&act=69&chpt=9&sctn=1&subsctn=0 https://www.legis.state.pa.us/cfdocs/legis/LI/uconsCheck.cfm...

aahortwwy 5y ago
I wonder if supervisor compensation can be determined for the current year without a quorum of auditors?
- maxerickson 5y ago
  2 is a quorum, so he and the guy he talked too could do it. Maybe not this year, but next year. I didn't go look up the rule listed there, it might be pretty narrow.
  - aahortwwy 5y ago
    Surely that's an incentive for the supervisors to swear in a quorum of auditors? Otherwise who's going to determine their compensation?
    - simonk 5y ago
      The email says they have no supervisors.
      - aahortwwy 5y ago
        Ah, you're right. I got confused because the township managers were incorrectly referred to as "supervisors" earlier in the Twitter thread.
      - ascar 5y ago
        It says they have no supervisor _working for the township_. They do have at least two supervisors that were just sworn in for 6 years according to the meeting agenda posted before. I guess that means they are fulfilling their duties uncompensated and thus no compensation needs to be determined.
- giantg2 5y ago
  There's a (small) chance none of them are compensated. My municipality is all volunteer.
  - throwawaygh 5y ago
    There's an enormous chance none of them are compensated. The township is in the middle of rural PA and has a population of like 17K. I would be astounded if any of the supervisors are compensated.
    - ameister14 5y ago
      They are compensated. They get the max they are allowed under state law. "the compensation for each Supervisor is hereby set at $3,250 per annum"
      - thaumasiotes 5y ago
        That isn't much different from being uncompensated.
        johnebgd 5y ago
        Most Americans make less than $35k a year. This amount could be substantial to some people.
        thaumasiotes 5y ago
        Well, you'd have to work out how much the pay is on an hourly basis. It doesn't sound like a role that consists of nothing but collecting a stipend. But more broadly, there's an active debate over whether governmental posts should either (a) pay enough that someone could live off of one; or (b) require the person holding the post to have independent means. This is clearly on the (b) side, often felt to exclude many social classes from being able to hold a post in the government. (And sometimes invoked as a reason to overlook corruption by the officeholder - "how else are they supposed to support themselves?")
ameister14 5y ago
Looks like they get paid the maximum possible, increasing automatically whenever that amount is raised: https://ecode360.com/15706463 https://ecode360.com/15706463
- maxerickson 5y ago
  Yeah, I was skimming and misread that part. The compensation for the elected duties is specified in the state law as being set by ordinance and it's the compensation for other employment with the township that is set by the auditors.
- bonestamp2 5y ago
  I'm guessing that is not going to happen this year!
ehsankia 5y ago
Sounds like a bad idea to piss off the person setting your compensation.
- adrr 5y ago
  Compensation is $3250
  - throwawaygh 5y ago
    "EXACTLY! That's a whole pizza and a couple beers EVERY WEEK! And all they have to do is show up to a multi-hour meeting every single week and risk some dumbass making a big deal to the whole damn world about them not providing a bible to give an oath over! These corrupt bastards! I have to work for like 10 minutes for those benefits every week! These corrupt bastards!!1!" - HN tonight
    - somenewaccount1 5y ago
      Well, if their pilfering town funds by 'employing' the surpivisors brother-in-law's landscaping company for 8x the normal cost... I'm not saying that's the case, it's a made up scenario, but it's exactly how underpaid public servants "make up the difference", and it's why you need an auditor. The hired CPA wouldn't see anything wrong.
      - throwawaygh 5y ago
        amscanne 5y ago
        $1.66mm seems like a lot for a traffic signal at an intersection. I’m sure an auditor could find a at least a few interesting items to dig in to and validate.
        throwawaygh 5y ago
throwawaygh 5y ago
- s1artibartfast 5y ago
  Fair point that we don't have the whole story. It is unclear if he even needs to be sworn in.
  - throwawaygh 5y ago
    - sb057 5y ago
      The fact that they gave the previously-elected guy the same runaround gives me the impression that it isn't a misunderstanding.
      - throwawaygh 5y ago
        somenewaccount1 5y ago
        Or they don't want an auditor to see how much the supervisors brother-in-law landscaping company gets for mowing the park lawns. That's why you need an auditor, hired CPA's will only verify that the checks were indeed sent to the intended party, not that they are used appropriately. Don't be naive that these things don't happen, they do.
        throwawaygh 5y ago
        give me a line item that looks off. Jut one. https://www.sstwp.org/DocumentCenter/View/10907/2022-Final-Budget https://www.sstwp.org/DocumentCenter/View/10907/2022-Final-B...
nonick 5y ago
He and the other elected auditor should make that oath in front of the notary public and then make the township supervisors pay out their own pocket for the elections they held knowing they would ignore the outcome.
elorne 5y ago
But according to the email he got, none of the supervisors are employed by the township, so there is no compensations to be determined.
fxleach 5y ago
> When an accountant or firm is appointed under subsection (a) or (b), the board of auditors shall not audit, settle or adjust the accounts audited by the appointee but shall perform the other duties of the office. If you can't audit any accounts then what would the "other duties of the office" be for a board of auditors?
- elorne 5y ago
  Determining compensation for supervisors _employed by the tonwhsip_... which this township doesn't have.
- ajnin 5y ago
  He lists those in one of the follow-up tweets : > The primary duties and functions of the Board of Auditors include: > > - Acting as a fiscal watchdog for the citizens of the township > - Auditing, settling, and adjusting the accounts of all elected or appointed officials who received or disbursed funds during the immediate preceding calendar year > - Setting salaries for supervisors who are employed by the township > - Auditing records of the local district justice, if deemed appropriate > - Filing the annual report for the township, unless the Board of Supervisors contracts an outside accounting firm per the code. (Nevertheless, in some townships auditors work together very closely with the township staff to insure that all township funds are properly expended and accounted for.) > - Hearing cases involving financial loss to the township as caused by any elected or appointed official, who have acted in a violation of law or beyond the scope of their office There are a few things here the supervisors might not want an outsider to look into.

aahortwwy 5y ago

I wonder if supervisor compensation can be determined for the current year without a quorum of auditors?

maxerickson 5y ago
2 is a quorum, so he and the guy he talked too could do it. Maybe not this year, but next year. I didn't go look up the rule listed there, it might be pretty narrow.
- aahortwwy 5y ago
  Surely that's an incentive for the supervisors to swear in a quorum of auditors? Otherwise who's going to determine their compensation?
  - simonk 5y ago
    The email says they have no supervisors.
    - aahortwwy 5y ago
      Ah, you're right. I got confused because the township managers were incorrectly referred to as "supervisors" earlier in the Twitter thread.
    - ascar 5y ago
      It says they have no supervisor _working for the township_. They do have at least two supervisors that were just sworn in for 6 years according to the meeting agenda posted before. I guess that means they are fulfilling their duties uncompensated and thus no compensation needs to be determined.
giantg2 5y ago
There's a (small) chance none of them are compensated. My municipality is all volunteer.
- throwawaygh 5y ago
  There's an enormous chance none of them are compensated. The township is in the middle of rural PA and has a population of like 17K. I would be astounded if any of the supervisors are compensated.
  - ameister14 5y ago
    They are compensated. They get the max they are allowed under state law. "the compensation for each Supervisor is hereby set at $3,250 per annum"
    - thaumasiotes 5y ago
      That isn't much different from being uncompensated.
      - johnebgd 5y ago
        Most Americans make less than $35k a year. This amount could be substantial to some people.
        thaumasiotes 5y ago
        Well, you'd have to work out how much the pay is on an hourly basis. It doesn't sound like a role that consists of nothing but collecting a stipend. But more broadly, there's an active debate over whether governmental posts should either (a) pay enough that someone could live off of one; or (b) require the person holding the post to have independent means. This is clearly on the (b) side, often felt to exclude many social classes from being able to hold a post in the government. (And sometimes invoked as a reason to overlook corruption by the officeholder - "how else are they supposed to support themselves?")

ameister14 5y ago

Looks like they get paid the maximum possible, increasing automatically whenever that amount is raised: https://ecode360.com/15706463 https://ecode360.com/15706463

maxerickson 5y ago
Yeah, I was skimming and misread that part. The compensation for the elected duties is specified in the state law as being set by ordinance and it's the compensation for other employment with the township that is set by the auditors.
bonestamp2 5y ago
I'm guessing that is not going to happen this year!

ehsankia 5y ago

Sounds like a bad idea to piss off the person setting your compensation.

adrr 5y ago
Compensation is $3250
- throwawaygh 5y ago
  "EXACTLY! That's a whole pizza and a couple beers EVERY WEEK! And all they have to do is show up to a multi-hour meeting every single week and risk some dumbass making a big deal to the whole damn world about them not providing a bible to give an oath over! These corrupt bastards! I have to work for like 10 minutes for those benefits every week! These corrupt bastards!!1!" - HN tonight
  - somenewaccount1 5y ago
    Well, if their pilfering town funds by 'employing' the surpivisors brother-in-law's landscaping company for 8x the normal cost... I'm not saying that's the case, it's a made up scenario, but it's exactly how underpaid public servants "make up the difference", and it's why you need an auditor. The hired CPA wouldn't see anything wrong.
    - throwawaygh 5y ago
      - amscanne 5y ago
        $1.66mm seems like a lot for a traffic signal at an intersection. I’m sure an auditor could find a at least a few interesting items to dig in to and validate.
        throwawaygh 5y ago

throwawaygh 5y ago

s1artibartfast 5y ago
Fair point that we don't have the whole story. It is unclear if he even needs to be sworn in.
- throwawaygh 5y ago
  - sb057 5y ago
    The fact that they gave the previously-elected guy the same runaround gives me the impression that it isn't a misunderstanding.
    - throwawaygh 5y ago
      - somenewaccount1 5y ago
        Or they don't want an auditor to see how much the supervisors brother-in-law landscaping company gets for mowing the park lawns. That's why you need an auditor, hired CPA's will only verify that the checks were indeed sent to the intended party, not that they are used appropriately. Don't be naive that these things don't happen, they do.
        throwawaygh 5y ago
        give me a line item that looks off. Jut one. https://www.sstwp.org/DocumentCenter/View/10907/2022-Final-Budget https://www.sstwp.org/DocumentCenter/View/10907/2022-Final-B...

nonick 5y ago

He and the other elected auditor should make that oath in front of the notary public and then make the township supervisors pay out their own pocket for the elections they held knowing they would ignore the outcome.

elorne 5y ago

But according to the email he got, none of the supervisors are employed by the township, so there is no compensations to be determined.

fxleach 5y ago

> When an accountant or firm is appointed under subsection (a) or (b), the board of auditors shall not audit, settle or adjust the accounts audited by the appointee but shall perform the other duties of the office. If you can't audit any accounts then what would the "other duties of the office" be for a board of auditors?

elorne 5y ago
Determining compensation for supervisors _employed by the tonwhsip_... which this township doesn't have.
ajnin 5y ago
He lists those in one of the follow-up tweets : > The primary duties and functions of the Board of Auditors include: > > - Acting as a fiscal watchdog for the citizens of the township > - Auditing, settling, and adjusting the accounts of all elected or appointed officials who received or disbursed funds during the immediate preceding calendar year > - Setting salaries for supervisors who are employed by the township > - Auditing records of the local district justice, if deemed appropriate > - Filing the annual report for the township, unless the Board of Supervisors contracts an outside accounting firm per the code. (Nevertheless, in some townships auditors work together very closely with the township staff to insure that all township funds are properly expended and accounted for.) > - Hearing cases involving financial loss to the township as caused by any elected or appointed official, who have acted in a violation of law or beyond the scope of their office There are a few things here the supervisors might not want an outsider to look into.