26 ms·

A Minimum Viable Computer, or Linux for $15

813 points by kotaKat 5y ago

alexcabrera305 5y ago
Reminds me of the Pocket Chip (https://opensource.com/article/17/2/pocketchip-or-pi https://opensource.com/article/17/2/pocketchip-or-pi) which is a pretty fantastic little device that shouldn't exist.
- anthk 5y ago
  I still own one, but it needs a better 3d-printed keyboard with better keys.
- jamesgeck0 5y ago
  I think it’s actually out of production right now. There’s still stock available here and there, but Next Thing Co. went out of business.
joeda_ 5y ago
but what would you do with it?
- jaywalk 5y ago
  Post it on HN, of course.
teddyh 5y ago
RYF certification?
marktangotango 5y ago
> Allwinner F1C100s SoC I figured it would be one of these parts, at this point they are pretty old, but capable. And available apparently.
pronoiac 5y ago
Two things: I'm not clear on why the first one would cost $10k. The enclosure, maybe? If he were going to sell these, the rule of thumb I heard was to charge the cost of parts x 10. (Edit: maybe a factor of 2? I forget.)
- geoah 5y ago
  I was wondering the same thing. PCBs are pretty cheap at this size, and the components wouldn't be THAT much more expensive to grab in smaller quantities. If someone would get a group buy started just for the components and 3d case files I'd hapilly sign up and 3d print the thing.
  - ghostly_s 5y ago
    I assume it's tooling costs for the custom enclosure + rubber membrane but I too was confused why that was never clarified.
- tyingq 5y ago
  Would be nice if he broke out the $10k. My guess is mostly the cost of an injection mold for the enclosure.
  - wanderingjew 5y ago
    Mold for the silicon keyboard - the first five keyboards is going to be about $6k. After that, each keyboard is about a dollar a piece. Same with the plastic enclosure.
    - pronoiac 5y ago
      Going by their comment history, I think this is the article's author. You might want to make a top-level comment, like "This is the author, ask me anything".
      - ghostly_s 5y ago
earksiinni 5y ago
"Holy f*ck don't use lithium" Safety first. Ha!
nine_k 5y ago
This is nice. This is a simple, straightforward design, and a reasonably convenient form factor. Two biggest limitations are RAM and wireless interfaces, or rather lack thereof. This thing has less RAM than my router (admittedly a $70 box), and has neither WiFi nor BT. It does not seem to have many GPIO pins, too. With the amount of RAM installed, it's mostly a handheld terminal, and maybe a handheld console with emulators for old games. While this is admirable as a proof of concept, I suspect that moving the price point up to, say, $30 could give a much more useful and hacker-friendly device. I greatly appreciate the split keyboard and the replaceable NiMH batteries, though.
- smallerfish 5y ago
  As long as wifi over USB is supported, why overcomplicate the core hardware? Sell a dongle as an add on option and make a little profit from it.
  - deeviant 5y ago
    It only has one usb port. If you want to use the port for something other than wifi, then you would have to add a usb hub that would cost more and be dangling off. I have the intuition that integral wifi is table stakes for a general computing device.
  - samstave 5y ago
    Completely an aside: USB dongles piss me off; specifically the Logitech Mouse USB dongles: Why the heck hasnt a single manufacturer included the USB Dongle radio IN the mobo? So with slim laptops you have few USB ports. I currently am typing this on an HP Omen flagship gaming laptop... It has ONE USB-C port, which is under-powered (I have a USB-C Hub, that requires an external USB-C Power source... so I have to plug the uSB-C Hub into my machine's C port, then plug the power USB-C <--> USB-B port consuming TWO of my USB ports on my machine... I plug in multiple USB-based monitors as well - and I can carry it all in my backpack... But we need MORE USB ports than fewer... and Mice should not consume a port. BT mice have never been subjectively responsive enough for me. For example, I can test-map-out my BT environment in my home by connecting to the BT speaker and moving around and it skips.... /rant
vlunkr 5y ago
That sounds pretty cool actually. I've used a shell or ssh on my phone; it's fun,but the lack of a physical keyboard makes things incredibly awkward.
throwawaygh 5y ago
> That’s about it. Could you do all of this with a smartphone? Yeah, kinda, if you root prepaid Android phone, but even that would cost more than $30. You can almost certainly do better than $30 on local marketplaces, or by asking friends if they have a disused smartphone sitting around. reusing is absurdly cost efficient
- officeplant 5y ago
  This does remind me that I have a OnePlus 3T laying around in a drawer that would be an excellent degoogled Android device. And my old HTC Dream / Tmobile G1 that I have Android 2.2 on if I wanted a full keyboard...
- karmakaze 5y ago
  One of my old smartphones and a portable/folding keyboard would be my pick. I do love the look of the form-factor though. Want to need it.
- WaxProlix 5y ago
  It'd be great if there were some standardized way to turn older smartphones, whose on-paper computing power is astronomical, into viable Linux servers or controllers. I've got plenty of old shit phones around that barely respond to touch (or whose displays are just outright unusable) but I'm here considering a new rpi for my next project instead of repurposing one. There's also a ton of leftover supply of these things, and they have built in power backups, networking, and often lots of shared platform parts (ie, target just one snapdragon based platform and get a swath of compatibility in the galaxy s3 era or whatever).
  - puzzlingcaptcha 5y ago
    There is a community effort in the form of postmarketOS but the support for many devices is quite limited https://wiki.postmarketos.org/wiki/Devices https://wiki.postmarketos.org/wiki/Devices Peripherals using proprietary drivers being the obvious offenders.
    - 5y ago
NelsonMinar 5y ago
One comparable here is the Raspberry Pi 400 at $70. That doesn't have a screen but has a lot more CPU, etc.
- throwanem 5y ago
  Doesn't have a battery either, although there's room in the case for one or two flat cells from a laptop pack plus a charge controller.
omair_inam 5y ago
What I'd love for someone to share is the MVP Linux machine I can use to run PiHole... Starter Raspberry Pis (e.g. by Canakit) ... are >$150 CAD on amazon.ca which just seems so expensive.
- unnouinceput 5y ago
  I run PiHole on a pi zero for like 2 years now. It costed me around $20 when I bought it, retail price, delivery included. Works like a charm
- iso1210 5y ago
  Mine runs on a years-old Raspberry Pi Model B Rev 2. A Raspberry Pi 3 Model B+ (which has an ethernet port), SD Card and case is about £40 at pihut, that's CAD70 A Zero 2 W with wireless is half that or less including the case, SD Card and power supply.
- sigstoat 5y ago
  the canakit packages are luxury items with a bunch of stuff you don't need. get a pi, an sd card, a power supply, and a cardboard box to shove it into. you don't need any of the other stuff they include. also get an old pi, not one of the most recent. maybe ask around, lots of folks have a box of older pis. i'd certainly love to get rid of all of the 1s and 2s i've got.
oroup 5y ago
A display mounted on a flat surface between your hands seems like a ready path to neck trauma.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- pjerem 5y ago
  You mean, like a smartphone or a portable console ?
  - goodpoint 5y ago
    No, much worse, because you are not able to lift it up in front of your eyes while typing.
    - hypertele-Xii 5y ago
      Why not?
      - gmiller123456 5y ago
        You can't hold it and type at the same time, this device has to be sitting on a surface to type.
        hypertele-Xii 5y ago
        How so? You can hold it with both hands and type with your thumbs. Or hold it in one hand and type with the other.
andi999 5y ago
The Bom for 1000 pieces is per piece 15$ (and 2.00$ for a 64gbyte sdcard looks optimistic, but difficult to tell typing on my phone). Placing, soldering and assembly is not factored in, wouldnt be surprised if this is another 15$, so production price is 30$, sales price then would be more like 60$. Edit: is the sd card connector missing in the bom? Cool project though.
- Closi 5y ago
  The SD card is on the BOM (it’s on the bottom) but agree that the price for it looks optimistic. Looking on AliExpress there are lots of unrealistically priced SD cards (1tb for $7!) so I wonder how many of these are just scams where they are formatted to appear bigger than they are, and also if that’s a realistic price that they are using.
  - andi999 5y ago
    Yes, the card is on the bom, but I meant the card connector, the thing that is soldered on the pcb, where you put the card in.
samstave 5y ago
Something that I have always wanted was an SMS ONLY device. A device, kind of like the SideKick (remember Danger invented Android, got bought by Google - then the founder was paid ~$90,000,000 severance from Google for coercing a female colleague to be his 'sex slave' -- Yeah, that Danger, Andy Rubin.) but I just want a device that only sends and receives SMS and thats it. Can this machine accept a SIM in a future iteration? (I interviewed with Danger back in the day... but I had the freaking flu and felt like death, and I failed the interview as I was reeling from the flu. It was super stupid of me to go to the interview whilst sick, but I REALLY wanted to work at Danger...)
- kotaKat 5y ago
  I'd love a modern RIM 850 that could do all my messaging (Discord, Telegram, SMS) and nothing else. Keep the 850 formfactor, keyboard, that amazing thumbwheel, but give it something like e-ink and great connectivity. Hell, throw a WiFi hotspot in it if we absolutely must.
  - samstave 5y ago
    And a scrambling MAC... every N minutes.
- bserge 5y ago
- vdqtp3 5y ago
  I've always wanted a receive only messaging device. Iridium still supports satellite pagers which would be perfect for that, but the hardware isn't manufactured anymore and you can't get service without a big plan attached (like DoD)
undecisive 5y ago
> I’m changing the title of this page just to screw with mods on the orange website Loving it! What orange website could they be talking about? I wonder what would be achievable, around the $15 mark WITHOUT needing a minimum order of 1000? (Presuming access to a 3d printer and a reasonably cheap PCB fab company)
- masklinn 5y ago
  > Loving it! What orange website could they be talking about? In case that's a serious question: what website has an orange theme, and an aggressively enforced rule against editorialising submission titles?
  - only4here 5y ago
    well yeah, but why would they want to block out the "orange website"?
    - bryanlarsen 5y ago
      I don't think "screw with" means "block" in this case. But there is one moderately famous blog that does block HN: https://www.jwz.org/ https://www.jwz.org/
      - wanderingjew 5y ago
        yeah I asked jwz how to do that, but I can't figure out a way to make that work with Github pages.
        Beltalowda 5y ago
        if (document.referrer === 'https://news.ycombinator.com/') window.location = 'https://cdn.jwz.org/images/2016/hn.png' Or something along those lines should work.
        shakna 5y ago
ajb 5y ago
This is $15 BoM cost (ie, parts), not including assembly, packaging, shipping, etc etc. So not what most people think when they see the headline. Still, it is a nice design
- Taniwha 5y ago
  nor profit - traditionally as a rule of thumb one doubles the price to cover that, and then again to cover retail markup
  - picture 5y ago
    And this is the BOM cost at qty 10,000.
xuhu 5y ago
Haven't I seen this before ? http://www.allaboutsymbian.com/features/images/e70open.jpg http://www.allaboutsymbian.com/features/images/e70open.jpg
mypalmike 5y ago
The enclosure pricing seems optimistic. Or is it possible to get a mold designed, cast, and parts manufactured at ~ $1000 for 1000 pieces?
dekhn 5y ago
I see the creator understands economics: "Low Price! It costs $10,000 USD to build one of these. The ten thousandth one costs $15"
haunter 5y ago
This is like the "budget" posts on /r/DIY: "porch renovation for only $200!" > proceeds to use the industrial sawmill they have in the garage that costs $100k
- gmiller123456 5y ago
  Not sure where you're getting that idea. All of the parts are purchased, then assembled. There's really no tooling beyond what most electronics enthusiasts would have at home.
Gormisdomai 5y ago
One reason I'd love one of these (or a generally cheap low power linux PC) is just so I could e.g. muck around with e.g. code golf or advetnt-of-code programming puzzles on my commute.
markus_zhang 5y ago
I'm wondering if we can use the same principle to design a miniature cell phone: can only text and make phone calls, very small screen, small keys, etc, using cheap components.
- all2 5y ago
  I've been thinking about this, too. On Linux this looks like a configuration nightmare of bodging together USB GSM/3G/4G/5G modems and piped commands [0]. No doubt there's a better way. [0] https://www.techytalk.info/send-receive-sms-using-gsm-modem-phone-ubuntu/ https://www.techytalk.info/send-receive-sms-using-gsm-modem-...
- mlac 5y ago
  Yes, then sell it to minimalists for $300: https://www.thelightphone.com/ https://www.thelightphone.com/
  - markus_zhang 5y ago
    Wow the price point is way above. I'm thinking about the mini phone in the movie Taken 2. I actually found a website to purchase a year ago but couldn't find it right now.
mrandish 5y ago
A similar but more powerful and flexible device is the Core2 from M5Stack. It's expandable through stackable snap-on blocks, USB, multiple I2C and a full set of GPIO and signal pins on a header. It has ESP32 CPU, Wifi, Bluetooth, 2" color touchscreen, microphone, power indicator, 6-Axis IMU, vibration motor, I2S codec, amplifier, speaker, RTC, power button, reset button, 10 x RGB LEDs, SD card slot and 3 programmable soft buttons for ~$45. There are dozens of snap-on expansion modules which can also be screwed on for permanent use, including a keyboard module, joystick/D-pad, expanded battery, prototyping breadboard breakout, ethernet and various wireless modules including cellular and LORAWAN. I have several of these along with a bunch of the modules and the system is ideal for prototyping up various things super quickly. Amazon sells their own Core2 bundle with an expanded battery module which is pre-programmed with their IOT prototyping platform firmware but you can just overwrite that back to stock firmware which supports FreeRTOS, MicroPython, UIFlow and Arduino frameworks. https://shop.m5stack.com/products/m5stack-core2-esp32-iot-development-kit https://shop.m5stack.com/products/m5stack-core2-esp32-iot-de... https://www.amazon.com/M5Stack-Core2-ESP32-Development-EduKit/dp/B08VGRZYJR https://www.amazon.com/M5Stack-Core2-ESP32-Development-EduKi...
- rsync 5y ago
  Here is the QWERTY keyboard for the m5stack: https://www.robotshop.com/en/m5stack-faces-qwerty-keyboard-panel.html https://www.robotshop.com/en/m5stack-faces-qwerty-keyboard-p...
  - rahimnathwani 5y ago
    AIUI this can't connect directly to the m5stack. You also need the 'Faces bottom board'. Here's a kit with everything you need, and more: https://shop.m5stack.com/products/face?variant=17290437623898 https://shop.m5stack.com/products/face?variant=1729043762389...
    - mrandish 5y ago
      FYI the kit you linked shows the M5Stack Core1 and shows EOL. The Core1 has been replaced by the Core2 which has improved hardware. I bought the Amazon bundle of the Core2, which is yellow, and separately ordered the modules I was interested in from M5Stack directly including the bottom board and the QWERTY keyboard.
marcodiego 5y ago
Does it need binary blobs? Would be a shame such a device becoma frozen in time because one can't update it.
300bps 5y ago
Important to note that the quoted $15 doesn't include shipping, assembly, tax or any other costs. For the same actual cost I'd go on EBay/Craigslist/FB Marketplace and buy an unlimited number of old computers with 1000x the specs of this one that are going to be otherwise placed into a landfill.
- guntars 5y ago
  And then carry those old computers around in your pocket?
  - 300bps 5y ago
    Sure. Buy a bunch of old Android phones for even less and root them.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
foxfluff 5y ago
How much would it change the cost to put in a Sochip S3, which has 128MB of RAM and can run at 800-900 MHz (if not more)?
guessbest 5y ago
We had something like this in 2001. It was called the Agenda vr3 and it ran a full X session with the FLTK in 16meg of RAM. However, the history of PDA's that run linux is mostly lost since LinuxDevices.com doesn't really exist anymore. I owned several of these including Agenda VR3, Vtech Helio, Zaurus, etc. It was quite a nice system even without wireless unless you count IrDA. It used FTP over RS-232 for installing software using a primitive packaging system. The little linux distros for these devices didn't really take off until the Zaurus SL-5500 took off by going on sale for $220 on the home shopping network in 2003, and someone developed the packing system called ipk which was a little more intelligent and reminiscent of Slackware's packing system. https://www.techrepublic.com/article/marrying-linux-and-the-pda-with-the-help-of-agenda/ https://www.techrepublic.com/article/marrying-linux-and-the-... Agenda VR3 specs : Processor: 66 MHz 32 bit NEC VR4181 MIPS; Memory: 8 MB of RAM plus 16 MB of Flash Memory NOTE: This could play mp3's while running an FTP server. https://web.archive.org/web/20030219081647/http://www.linuxdevices.com/articles/AT8394069979.html https://web.archive.org/web/20030219081647/http://www.linuxd... Zaurus packages : https://www.zaurus.org.uk/download/cacko/feed/ https://www.zaurus.org.uk/download/cacko/feed/ Zaurus specs : Intel SA-1110 StrongARM processor running at 206 MHz, has 64 MB of RAM and 16MB Flash NOTE: This could play MP3's, MP4 at 320x240, run an SSH server, etc. I'm surprised there aren't more systems out there, but a lot of these linux devices in the 2000's (the aught years) were just other systems cannibalized for linux like the iPaq line. Eventually some people put this together in to something called Familiar Linux and trying to standardize the whole thing. handhelds.org doesn't exist anymore, though. https://www.drdobbs.com/packing-linux-on-ipaq/199200756 https://www.drdobbs.com/packing-linux-on-ipaq/199200756 The whole openembedded (OE) system showed promise and came from the guy who made Gentoo, but it got mostly abandoned and merged in to other projects (YOCTO) when he went to work for Microsoft. https://www.openembedded.org/wiki/Main_Page https://www.openembedded.org/wiki/Main_Page https://docs.yoctoproject.org/ https://docs.yoctoproject.org/ I kind of gave up on this all when I started developing for iPhone OS 3. It just worked with regards to wireless, and I realized I was more interested in the application layer anyway. Before 2020, you could get an iPhone 5s for about $20 on ebay, so it really had all I wanted including GPS. There was someone who put together a site called http://pocketworkstation.org/ http://pocketworkstation.org/ which isn't in the internet archive (archive.org) that had a whole LaTeX system working in Window Maker on the various Zaurus models. It was a scaled down desktop with 7 bit fonts, but it could be VNC into and used. Fun times. EDIT: formatting and specs for low end devices
7thaccount 5y ago
I don't need it, but want it :)
anthk 5y ago
Give me a 80x24 font terminal and framebuffer support for SD2/video/images/PDF, and I'm sold. This has no internet support, but who cares as I can just rsync the NNTP dir from/to slrn in my laptop and read good stuff offline, and just answer over the laptop, too. Or, well, an Atheros dongle would work fine. For coding, JimTCL with or without SDL2 is fun, and, for gaming, text adventures and roguelikes would rock here.
- jandrese 5y ago
  The screen is just too low rez for an 80x24 terminal. You would need a 3x9 font, which I know from experience are close to unreadable. 320x240 displays more often ran at 40x24 which is too small for the modern world. At the end of the article he talked about upgrading to a 640x480 display which would make the 80x24 terminal a real possibility. The surprisingly expensive 800x480 display would be even better, you would have the possibility of running a square 9x9 font, or more likely increasing the console resolution to 100x24.
  - anthk 5y ago
    I ran 80x25 fine under the zipit z2 but had to place it near your face as if it was a Game Boy. But the Z2 Nethack build was patched to support a ~64x16 res (68x20 I think), so that worked well among some forth interpreter and well, gopher clients and IRC. The custom Slashem I built didn't have that patch, (and the patch was doable for sure), but I was lazy and just ran setfont. Z machine games were perfectly playable on 64x16.
CameronBanga 5y ago
I believe per HN rules, the title here should be changed to properly reflect the title of the article?
tombert 5y ago
This reminds me (in a good way) of the GPD Win computers. Obviously smartphones are cool, I have one, I like it, but it annoys me that in some senses they're still not as good as a Windows 98 laptop from 24 years ago. Their version of MS Office isn't as intuitive, there's not the same level of programming language/compiler support, on iOS you're restricted to the App Store, etc. The GPD Win was the first time I saw a good attempt at a "real" computer that fits in your pocket, and I have one and love it dearly for on-the-train coding, but sadly the pricepoint is a bit high for most people. If I can get something that feels like a real computer for less than $50, I'll be the first in line to buy it.
- emteycz 5y ago
  A rooted Android smartphone with Nix is a full Linux computer. I have Node.js, VSCode, C/C++, etc - all while keeping access to all phone capabilities. I haven't tried yet but there shouldn't be any problem with running X server and a full DE (I access the VSCode through Android browser now).
  - tombert 5y ago
    Interesting. I don't use Android anymore but I have like four old phones lying around that I could easily use to play with. I wonder if this has better battery life than the GPD Win, and it would be a free experiment for me.
    - emteycz 5y ago
      Well my phone (Samsung S9+) can do like 12 hours of Node.js+VSCode coding while using BT keyboard and mouse. Not bad IMHO. And the USB-C port of this phone can be used with a usual dock to connect it to a screen and wired peripherals.
      - tombert 5y ago
        Do you have a keyboard case that lets you just type with your thumbs?
crims0n 5y ago
Reminds me of Pocket C.H.I.P, which apparently still has new stock for sale. I never used mine as much as wanted to though... largely I think due to the keyboard.
Ecco 5y ago
The display price in the BoM is absolutely not where the market is at today… I'm not even sure it has ever been there. I'd love to have more info on where they are supposedly getting a panel for this price.
jrockway 5y ago
For those interested in getting something going off the shelf: Keyboard Featherwing: https://www.adafruit.com/product/4818 https://www.adafruit.com/product/4818 Linux-capable Feather: https://www.crowdsupply.com/groboards/giant-board https://www.crowdsupply.com/groboards/giant-board Add a lithium polymer battery of your choosing to compute on the go. (Also possible to add WiFi or SMS with a Featherwing for people that are interested in that. https://www.adafruit.com/product/4264 https://www.adafruit.com/product/4264 etc.) OK, it's not really off the shelf. No doubt many hours involving pulling out your hair to set up the device tree are involved before you can do anything fun.
donpdonp 5y ago
For those of you who are intrigued by this cyberdeck, there is an active community around such DIY small computing platforms. Check out https://cyberdeck.cafe/ https://cyberdeck.cafe/ and especially their discord server. There are tons of amazing projects there.
1MachineElf 5y ago
I'm in love this device and would pay 10x the cost to have one if it included Wifi and QMK firmware for the keyboard. Bluetooth and NFC would be great too, but not critical. The keyboard reminds me a lot of the Atreus42, which is ideal for me. Too many of these small devices follow a conventional keyboard layout (looking at you, ClockworkPi DevTerm and Popcorn Pocket Computer).
__float 5y ago
It seems the author is now redirecting the blog post to a static image, presumably to screw with HN even more: https://github.com/bbenchoff/bbenchoff.github.io/commit/9e77831cc2a694ba9f865052478fc2aaaf973892 https://github.com/bbenchoff/bbenchoff.github.io/commit/9e77...
- wanderingjew 5y ago
  no, I'm just testing something out. I changed it back. Yes I test in prod.
synergy20 5y ago
looks cute, it took me a while to figure out what's the user case(or the market) so far I have no idea where I need it
nullsmack 5y ago
The best part about this is that it appears to take AAA batteries.
ruffrey 5y ago
WiFi?
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
jl6 5y ago
Would be nice to see an equivalent “minimum viable trustable computer” that used only parts from “trusted” supply chains (pick your own definition of “trusted”, but it might for example exclude generic parts marketplaces).
- ajb 5y ago
  https://betrusted.io/ https://betrusted.io/ is pretty much that. Initial HW platform is there, not sure how much of the SW is ready
  - jl6 5y ago
    Yes, that sort of thing! Its claim to trustworthiness seems to be based on the idea that its CPU runs on an FPGA so you can audit the source code for that and compile it yourself. But the underlying FPGA looks like a proprietary Xilinx device. Who’s auditing that?
- alexisread 5y ago
  Pinedio stack is probably the best cheap option, as it has been fully reverse engineered, including the radios- no firmware blobs. Similar to m5 stack but riscV core. For an OS you have nuttx, but for the memory size, Oberon ports (A2) might be feasible.
jethro_tell 5y ago
Needs an escape key on the keeb
WaitWaitWha 5y ago
Like the idea. Reconsider the keyboard. If we presume the target users are other than first-world, the likelihood of only have one hand or missing fingers increases significantly. The keyboard becomes very cumbersome. (source: found out the hard way when brought toys that require two hands or all fingers to play with, in worn-torn countries.)
- arduinomancer 5y ago
  Do you mean the keyboard being split across the screen would be hard to use for those people?
  - WaitWaitWha 5y ago
    yes. will have a hard time kbding on split keyboard while looking at the screen,which is directly under their hand movements.
  - coatmatter 5y ago
    Both of my hands are quite dexterous, but I still often find myself typing with one finger if it's on a smartphone (I'm still not used to typing with my thumbs), or one hand if I'm on a normal full sized keyboard (such as when I'm eating or snacking). I've owned a split keyboard before (MS Natural Elite) and it was fine, but I'm unlikely to ever buy a split keyboard again.
- mackrevinack 5y ago
  the keyboard could do with having a flat base as well. it looks like it would rock all over the place when you type, even when using it with two hands
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
zokier 5y ago
Where do you find F1C100s for $.75 @1ku? How much more would it cost to upgrade the SoC to something bit more modern, like V3S/R11 (or others from that family)? https://www.cnx-software.com/2018/03/30/allwinner-s3-camera-soc-includes-128mb-ram-an-i2s-audio-interface/ https://www.cnx-software.com/2018/03/30/allwinner-s3-camera-... > I’ve been told V3, V3S, S3, S3L, R11 are all the same chip, but with packaging variations.
hffftz 5y ago
einpoklum 5y ago
The idea is great, but the layout of the keyboard is such that, well, I wouldn't use this keyboard. It's extremely inconvenient IMHO to split it in the middle. You will have to either retrain your hands, or keep looking right and left. I realize this might be due to some combination of constraints, but $15 or $1500 - the form factor matters.
jokoon 5y ago
I'm guessing there are GUI things that would fit in that thing?
- nfriedly 5y ago
  Gmenu2X / GmenuNX is a simple launcher program designed for small displays that runs well on that CPU. This is the fork that I've worked with: https://github.com/MiyooCFW/gmenunx https://github.com/MiyooCFW/gmenunx Edit: here is the original: http://mtorromeo.github.io/gmenu2x/ http://mtorromeo.github.io/gmenu2x/
lstodd 5y ago
This is cool, but Flipper Zero is in my opinion, cooler. https://flipperzero.one/ https://flipperzero.one/
- anfractuosity 5y ago
  The Flipper Zero does look fun, but $160 is pretty expensive alas, but I understand injection moulding doesn't come cheap. I really like their blog on how the moulds etc. were made too. Also iirc the firmware is now open.
  - lstodd 5y ago
    Molds aren't cheap, but as someone who've been around while F0 was created it's not that imo. It's setting up the pipeline, shitty PCBs in batches of hundreds, fuckups with parts, etc. If you do a couple of prototypes it's fine. If you want to make a thousand or two, you are in a world of pain.
- yayr 5y ago
  or this: https://www.hardkernel.com/shop/odroid-go-advance-black-edition/ https://www.hardkernel.com/shop/odroid-go-advance-black-edit... and it does come with a more digestible price tag
gorgoiler 5y ago
1/ This is cool. I love it. 2/ As per the very start of the article — and this is off topic I’m afraid but… — let’s say I did want to root a prepaid Android phone. What is the best phone I should go for?
nfriedly 5y ago
That F1C100s CPU is the same one that's used for Business Card Linux [1] as well as a bunch of cheap ($20~40) handheld retro gaming consoles that run Linux and emulators. It can handle emulating NES, most SNES games, Sega Genesis & Game Gear, Game Boy Color and most GBA games, even a few PS1 games like FFVII. I bet it wouldn't take too much work to port the Miyoo Custom Firmware [2] over to it. Also, the CPU can be overclocked to 700-800mhz pretty trivially. It gives a nice little bump in performance and it doesn't even have much effect on the power draw. [1]: https://github.com/thirtythreeforty/businesscard-linux https://github.com/thirtythreeforty/businesscard-linux [2]: https://github.com/TriForceX/MiyooCFW https://github.com/TriForceX/MiyooCFW
jbverschoor 5y ago
Where are the cursor keys? Back to vi-keys I guess
loser777 5y ago
If you cranked up the maximum swap size, would you theoretically be able to build the kernel? (Is it truly a viable Linux machine if it can't build its own kernel?) What would be the expected build time? Days? Months?
- jeremyjh 5y ago
  Who builds their own kernel other than enthusiasts? Even companies that develop their own kernel branch don't build it on every machine that runs it. What practical difficulty is imposed if you can't?
- zeusk 5y ago
  ARM926EJ is pretty capable, I had one in my Intel XScale based PDA. I'd say a day at max if it had enough memory.
ineedasername 5y ago
There was a time when the first question asked of such a device would be "Can it run Doom?" If you don't remember that time, then I guess I'm getting old. In any case, it's nearly a useless question these days: very few things with a chip are so dumb they can't run Doom. We need a new metric.
- WaxProlix 5y ago
  "Can it run crysis?"
renonce 5y ago
In China we buy second-hand Redmi 2 for 60RMB each (roughly $9.5). Can be bought in quantities. Fully functional with 2GB RAM+16GB eMMC, and battery, touchscreen, WiFi, Bluetooth, camera, and even 4G support. It's not built from scratch like this one, but if you are just looking for something cheap, then this price is insane.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- wolpoli 5y ago
  Something like this would be awesome when paired with a physical keyboard.
- throw10920 5y ago
  Amazing that we went from this potato[1] for $12 in 2013 to that Redmi 2 in 9 years. Now, you said that you buy the Redmi second-hand, but still - the leap is amazing. [1] https://www.bunniestudios.com/blog/?page_id=3107 https://www.bunniestudios.com/blog/?page_id=3107
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  - schwartzworld 5y ago
    If you threw a a Qwerty keyboard and command line on that thing, it would be on the front page of HN right now
- kragen 5y ago
  How easy is it to patch its kernel?
  - stragies 5y ago
    It would seem a mainline linux kernel can run everything apart from the camera on (Redmi 2) SnapDragon 410: https://wiki.postmarketos.org/wiki/MSM8916_Mainlining https://wiki.postmarketos.org/wiki/MSM8916_Mainlining
afandian 5y ago
I'm holding out for an MNT Pocket Reform. Though it won't be $15. https://pocket-reform.ghost.io/ https://pocket-reform.ghost.io/ weirdly the most info is in LinkedIn https://www.linkedin.com/company/pocket-reform https://www.linkedin.com/company/pocket-reform
chrisbrandow 5y ago
very cool. My only quibble would be the keyboard layout. split is completely fine, but the actual placement of keys does not seem ideal. Assuming that the origin of the thumbs would be bottom left and right, I'd rotate the layout of the keys a few degrees to match that reach. Hard to know without actually holding it and trying.
codazoda 5y ago
I used to love my Alphasmart for writing. I don't know if this keyboard would work very well for a touch typist, but maybe. The AA batteries are a real bonus for me. Plus, with Linux in it, it could do a lot more. I do agree with others that wifi would be a killer feature to add to this thing.
overgard 5y ago
This is a neat idea and clever execution, but I just can't imagine ever using this over like a donated out-of-date laptop or something. I'd love to see something at like a 50-100 price point that could theoretically be more usable (more than 47 keys, more screen resolution, built in wifi)
- vinceguidry 5y ago
  I've sometimes thought about going to some small village somewhere and teaching interested locals how to code and use computers. I would need small, cheap devices that I can just replace whenever they get lost/stolen. Also standardized enough that I don't have to spend a ton of time doing hardware support. If someone brought a >$20 fully-contained device to market then I could buy 20 of them and plan a 6 month trip abroad. Being not super-useful as general purpose machines is a bonus. This idea's been kicking around in my head since the OLPC was announced, but nobody's delivered yet. Chromebooks are too expensive.
  - a9h74j 5y ago
    I find out-of-date used Chromebooks are available for $50.
    - vinceguidry 5y ago
      Can I buy a lot of 20 of them? All in the same model and in the same rough shape?
      - iak8god 5y ago
        Yeah https://www.ebay.com/itm/334305121838 https://www.ebay.com/itm/334305121838
  - overgard 5y ago
    It would be nice to have. One thought I can't shake is how wasteful the world is with perfectly good hardware that's "obsolete". For instance, I have an iPhone 5C that I practically can't give away which is way more powerful than the idea presented here. But because the hardware is undocumented and locked down and it's stupid difficult to replace the battery, there doesn't seem to be a reasonable way to turn it into a cheap computer, even though it really should be possible. (To be honest, I'd probably still use it as my phone if it still received security updates and I could replace the battery)
fsiefken 5y ago
> battery life is long enough what's 'long enough'? i'd love a on-the-go linux with e-ink and very low power chip so i can use it for a week.
- nielsole 5y ago
  The NiMH batteries are likely in series. They have a capacity of 600mAh. The Lichee Nano that this board is based on has a power consumption (with display of 250mA[0]) [0] https://media.digikey.com/pdf/Data%20Sheets/Seeed%20Technology/102110201_Web.pdf https://media.digikey.com/pdf/Data%20Sheets/Seeed%20Technolo... So even if you can't fully discharge the NiMH batteries you should comfortably get an hour of battery life out of this thing, much more, if you don't use the display.
zokier 5y ago
> I’ve already written a driver for a 800x480 display, and it could work over SPI. This display is somewhat expensive, with a bare panel coming in at $12 Alibaba has some 800x480 displays for as low as $4.5-6.5 (@1ku), I wonder if those are just bullshit or is there some catch. They don't have SPI interface, so driving them might be bit more involved? But the SoC should have the hardware for that, so its just a matter of writing drivers? https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/800x480-resolution-5-inch-RGB-interface_1600151223350.html https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/800x480-resolution-5-... https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/5-inch-6-O-clock-viewing_60642436364.html https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/5-inch-6-O-clock-view...
miav 5y ago
> It costs $10,000 USD to build one of these > The ten thousandth one costs $15 As a software engineer, I'm used to being able to build essentially whatever I want, with the only cost being my time. I'm often unpleasantly reminded that software is an outlier in that regard and as soon as physical items are concerned, especially hardware, it turns out that manufacturing even a simple thing is prohibitively expensive if it's done at a small scale.
- desireco42 5y ago
  Yes that is true, but only thanks to huge reliance on OPEN SOURCE. :) Without it, no tools, no infrastructure, no nothing.
- mastazi 5y ago
  In the software world something that works roughly similarly (i.e. where a prototype is differentiated from production) is devops. If you are deploying a toy-project once, maybe you are not setting up a CI/CD pipeline, Terraform templates, Github team permissions, Github/Jira integration, etc etc. - you do all of these things only for "real" products. But yeah, going from prototype to production with hardware is much, much harder, I agree with you.
  - mike_hock 5y ago
    And the macro architecture of the project. As a one man project, the only thing it makes sense to build is a monolith.
    - mastazi 5y ago
      Yeah as a solo freelance dev I couldn't see how stuff like microservices would remotely be helpful to me in any way. But a few years later I worked in a large-ish team where at some point we hit a wall due to the project being a monolith[1], then I realised what that stuff was about. [1] the project changed scope and we had to do a large refactoring of the codebase as a result, if it had been based on microservices the refactoring would have been an order of magnitude simpler. Luckily the monolith was relatively well architected with separated service providers so it wasn't super bad.
NWoodsman 5y ago
Picture this: - monocoque anodized aluminum housing with coin screw o-ring battery port that houses an 18650; -silicon gasketed polycarbonate faceplate held with stainless hex button head screws, waterproof to 100 meters - tactile clicky button keys beneath a silicone membrane for waterproof-ness. - detachable rubberized wifi antenna. A feller can dream...
- NWoodsman 5y ago
  oh and Qi charging so you don't have to open the case to charge.
yayr 5y ago
As an alternative, for iOS folks this might be an interesting pocket solution as well: https://getutm.app https://getutm.app
1vuio0pswjnm7 5y ago
 Nice. As a non-brogrammer, a battery-powered, pocket Linux/BSD computer without a "phone" built into it that boots from SD card/USB stick is exactly what I am looking for. No GUI required. Willing to pay more than $15.
veltas 5y ago
This would be much more minimum and much more viable if you just assume the user can acquire "a USB keyboard" for little or nothing.
varispeed 5y ago
This looks great, but I am not sure how would I use a computer without cursors and pgup / pgdown / home / end keys at very least? Am I missing something?
jdlyga 5y ago
I like the cold war tech aesthetic of this. I can imagine 1 million soviet troops being outfitted with a handheld MVP computer each as part of their kits.
MartijnBraam 5y ago
Quite sad that this is the Allwinner SoC without a FPU in it, making distro options more limited. Something like the v3s has similar specs but has a new enough ARM core to have an FPU making it possible to run armhf/armv7 distros instead of armel (debian naming)
foobarbecue 5y ago
Love it. Text says price is for 10000 units, BOM price column header says 1000 units. Which is it?
abetusk 5y ago
The first one costs $10k? It seems a bit disingenuous. All the electronics and PCB manufacture is more expensive in single quantities, but I would be shocked if it wasn't still within 2x-3x of $15 (namely $30-$45). The big initial expense, as far as I can tell, is the custom enclosure and keyboard. Maybe there's an interim design that doesn't require injection molded parts?
eternityforest 5y ago
I think this could even be almost with a few small changes. I think there is room for a new class of device in between smartphones and fixed function machines like TV remotes. If I bought an OSHW product and it shipped with this as the controller, or I saw one of these just hanging out running an irrigation system, I'd say "Yep, they sure did an awesome design there. I would ditch the SD card as part of the BOM. I don't trust that $2 SD card for anything but read only root operation. Lots of people would rather use a SanDisk they already have, so I'd say the cheap card should be an optional addon. With the money saved from that, and maybe by just bumping up the price a tiny bit, could you tack WiFi/BT? This sounds slightly insane, but what if you slapped an ESP32 module on there? Not only could it serve as a WiFi and Bluetooth interface, but the power draw can be microscopic. You could have the option to have it always running. That means it could be the real time clock. RTCs are needed more and more for various security related things, and are very important for data logging. Instead of breaking out GPIO for the "shitty ad-on" connector, break out ESP32 GPIO. Now that add-on can run IN LOW POWER MODE!!! You could make an incredibly low power thing that logs to RAM, and wakes up once a day to 4G upload it! It could also serve as the battery level ADC monitor if you don't already have one. It could serve as the USB device for the C port, so you could plug it in to a a host machine AND have the spare USB-A port. It would also let you really deeply control and test network access. Since you can write your own ESP firmware, and it has GPIO, potentially you can implement your own IP-over-LoRa hackery with addon modules or something, that works transparently. It's large RAM could also be exposed as a filesystem for tiny frequently updated things, that only need to be semi-persistent. Plus, you could give it a debugging firmware and use it as a USB to serial interface for debugging. The whole platform kind of becomes software defined!! You might need some kind of recovery jumper in case bad ESP firmware told the main processor to shut off, preventing you from fixing it. But that could just be a DIP switch to disable the ESP, which would also act as an RF kill. Going eeeevvven fuurrrtherrr*, that NiMH is probably the second biggest weakness here. I think there would be more demand if you swap it for an 18650 or lithium AA, even if it cost more. If you look around, a lot of people really love that form factor. You could save a bit of money by just letting people use their own 18650. Or, even better, you could use a 2.4V LTO battery. These are $3.30 in QTY10 on AliExpress. They can be float charged. They have a linear voltage curve. Incredibly safe, and they can last 7000 to 20k cycles. Set your step down regulator for the float voltage and you are good to go if it's accurate enough. Use an IO pin that can turn it off and you can terminate for extra life. With a simple dumb charging regime, you will have no oddities when running right off a solar panel through a 12v to USB converter. Now you have the perfect offgrid tech tool! If the extension interface has a good mechanical connection(Like a screw) and 3D-printable addon modules, a lot of standalone devices could go away. OBD scan tool? Multimeter? Geiger counter? Nope, just sell these in a kit with a preattached module. For niche hardware it might actually be cheaper to rebrand these than to do your own interface, and these are way more flexible. Lastly, the ESP32 can handle audio, and audible alerts are important. But beyond that, walkie talkies EPICALLY SUCK. It would add cost, but the thing could almost totally replace FRS radios, and have 10x the battery life and as much range as you want with Wi-Fi mesh, with just a tiny speaker and mic, or even without one, just using bluetooth. Plus, sound is pretty essential for use in a game console. Currently, there are basically no devices in this class since things like the Zipit Z2 went away. So I am super excited to see how this goes!! I already have some ideas for a menu system that could make this usable for non-hackers, without going to a full GUI.
wanderer_ 5y ago
mmmmm.... me want! I'll buy it if he puts it out there. "the mechanical keyboard mafia" is the most startlingly accurate phrase I have read today.
Teknoman117 5y ago
This is super cool. I'm going to have to "make my own Linux SBC" at some point, just to be able to say I did it. It was something I always wanted to do as kid after hearing my dad's stories of designing and building computers with his uncles in the 70's and 80's from parts catalogs. Admittedly, having the whole system on a single package for the most part makes this decidedly simpler. Up until this point the hardest thing for me was doing the SoC <-> DDR3 traces in KiCad. They're remarkably less forgiving than PCIe, but I guess that is the curse of modern RAM chips not using differential IO. That and figuring how how to solder BGA. Making my first attempt with some cheaper FPGAs and a hotplate pretty soon.
nomilk 5y ago
Suppose you have all the parts and a workbench, how long would it take to assemble one unit from start to finish?
nomadiccoder 5y ago
I loved hackaday back when I was in undergrad :) Very inspiring to see cool projects like this.
debbiedowner 5y ago
Where is the Kickstarter?
neilv 5y ago
Would buyers prefer this split keyboard layout, or a blackberry-style layout? Personally, my ideal handheld would be something like my old Nokia E61, but with open hardware, mainline Linux, at least .11n WiFi, and isolated 4G/5G cellular. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nokia_E61 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nokia_E61
elviejo 5y ago
I love that keyboard, that is how I want the keyboard in my laptop to be: track pad in the center .. with split keyboard on the sides. 17 inch laptop
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
mbrodersen 5y ago
I would buy it.
rasengan0 5y ago
I'd like to sign up but I'm still waiting for the Pyra handheld, er ... pre-ordered 2016 [1] Pro-tip: Get help and factor in delays when making stuff :-) [1] https://pyra-handheld.com/boards/pages/pyra/ https://pyra-handheld.com/boards/pages/pyra/
toolslite 5y ago
vaxman 5y ago
There should be some industry-subsidized program where upon (a) it’s free to 4th-7th graders and available for pickup at local stores using a thumbprint; (b) it should have free packet connectivity to Internet, perhaps through something like Sidewalk, the FindMy network and the piggyback WiFi networks that cable coNpanies [sic] have started installing into the neighbor’s “WiFi routers” to support their new CLEC+ mobile service; (c) if a youth spends enough time working on one in certain ways (perhaps a minimum of two hours per day on average in Emacs/Mu/VIM or certain types of nCurses variants of Jupytr, Mathematica, VisiCalc, SQLiteStudio, etc… as verified by signals emitted to the Cloud from the ROM/BSP), then they receive eligibility to go pickup a progression of “snap-on” upgrades (7” LCD, storage, 5GUW, etc), eventually (after thousands of hours) leading to a “snap-on” compatible rPi400 as they’re getting ready for high school. Yeah, it’s pretty anemic compared to where we really should be as a society right now, but it’s a lot more realistic than giving out locked-down $300 iPads equipped with MDM and supporting infrastructure to 4th graders that starve during the Summer (when school lunches are closed).
abc_lisper 5y ago
Or you can buy a old android phone on eBay for the same price. Phones have made computing accessible than any other effort to make it cheaper ala OLPC. There are parallels to capitalists making the world a better place than religions and philosophies.
user500 5y ago
to my understanding the f1c200s just twice the ram and otherwise a drop in repacment. however I am not sure about cost.

813 points by kotaKat 5y ago

Reminds me of the Pocket Chip (https://opensource.com/article/17/2/pocketchip-or-pi https://opensource.com/article/17/2/pocketchip-or-pi) which is a pretty fantastic little device that shouldn't exist.

anthk 5y ago
I still own one, but it needs a better 3d-printed keyboard with better keys.
jamesgeck0 5y ago
I think it’s actually out of production right now. There’s still stock available here and there, but Next Thing Co. went out of business.

joeda_ 5y ago

but what would you do with it?

jaywalk 5y ago
Post it on HN, of course.

teddyh 5y ago

RYF certification?

marktangotango 5y ago

> Allwinner F1C100s SoC I figured it would be one of these parts, at this point they are pretty old, but capable. And available apparently.

pronoiac 5y ago

Two things: I'm not clear on why the first one would cost $10k. The enclosure, maybe? If he were going to sell these, the rule of thumb I heard was to charge the cost of parts x 10. (Edit: maybe a factor of 2? I forget.)

geoah 5y ago
I was wondering the same thing. PCBs are pretty cheap at this size, and the components wouldn't be THAT much more expensive to grab in smaller quantities. If someone would get a group buy started just for the components and 3d case files I'd hapilly sign up and 3d print the thing.
- ghostly_s 5y ago
  I assume it's tooling costs for the custom enclosure + rubber membrane but I too was confused why that was never clarified.
tyingq 5y ago
Would be nice if he broke out the $10k. My guess is mostly the cost of an injection mold for the enclosure.
- wanderingjew 5y ago
  Mold for the silicon keyboard - the first five keyboards is going to be about $6k. After that, each keyboard is about a dollar a piece. Same with the plastic enclosure.
  - pronoiac 5y ago
    Going by their comment history, I think this is the article's author. You might want to make a top-level comment, like "This is the author, ask me anything".
    - ghostly_s 5y ago

earksiinni 5y ago

"Holy f*ck don't use lithium" Safety first. Ha!

nine_k 5y ago

This is nice. This is a simple, straightforward design, and a reasonably convenient form factor. Two biggest limitations are RAM and wireless interfaces, or rather lack thereof. This thing has less RAM than my router (admittedly a $70 box), and has neither WiFi nor BT. It does not seem to have many GPIO pins, too. With the amount of RAM installed, it's mostly a handheld terminal, and maybe a handheld console with emulators for old games. While this is admirable as a proof of concept, I suspect that moving the price point up to, say, $30 could give a much more useful and hacker-friendly device. I greatly appreciate the split keyboard and the replaceable NiMH batteries, though.

smallerfish 5y ago
As long as wifi over USB is supported, why overcomplicate the core hardware? Sell a dongle as an add on option and make a little profit from it.
- deeviant 5y ago
  It only has one usb port. If you want to use the port for something other than wifi, then you would have to add a usb hub that would cost more and be dangling off. I have the intuition that integral wifi is table stakes for a general computing device.
- samstave 5y ago
  Completely an aside: USB dongles piss me off; specifically the Logitech Mouse USB dongles: Why the heck hasnt a single manufacturer included the USB Dongle radio IN the mobo? So with slim laptops you have few USB ports. I currently am typing this on an HP Omen flagship gaming laptop... It has ONE USB-C port, which is under-powered (I have a USB-C Hub, that requires an external USB-C Power source... so I have to plug the uSB-C Hub into my machine's C port, then plug the power USB-C <--> USB-B port consuming TWO of my USB ports on my machine... I plug in multiple USB-based monitors as well - and I can carry it all in my backpack... But we need MORE USB ports than fewer... and Mice should not consume a port. BT mice have never been subjectively responsive enough for me. For example, I can test-map-out my BT environment in my home by connecting to the BT speaker and moving around and it skips.... /rant

vlunkr 5y ago

That sounds pretty cool actually. I've used a shell or ssh on my phone; it's fun,but the lack of a physical keyboard makes things incredibly awkward.

throwawaygh 5y ago

> That’s about it. Could you do all of this with a smartphone? Yeah, kinda, if you root prepaid Android phone, but even that would cost more than $30. You can almost certainly do better than $30 on local marketplaces, or by asking friends if they have a disused smartphone sitting around. reusing is absurdly cost efficient

officeplant 5y ago
This does remind me that I have a OnePlus 3T laying around in a drawer that would be an excellent degoogled Android device. And my old HTC Dream / Tmobile G1 that I have Android 2.2 on if I wanted a full keyboard...
karmakaze 5y ago
One of my old smartphones and a portable/folding keyboard would be my pick. I do love the look of the form-factor though. Want to need it.
WaxProlix 5y ago
It'd be great if there were some standardized way to turn older smartphones, whose on-paper computing power is astronomical, into viable Linux servers or controllers. I've got plenty of old shit phones around that barely respond to touch (or whose displays are just outright unusable) but I'm here considering a new rpi for my next project instead of repurposing one. There's also a ton of leftover supply of these things, and they have built in power backups, networking, and often lots of shared platform parts (ie, target just one snapdragon based platform and get a swath of compatibility in the galaxy s3 era or whatever).
- puzzlingcaptcha 5y ago
  There is a community effort in the form of postmarketOS but the support for many devices is quite limited https://wiki.postmarketos.org/wiki/Devices https://wiki.postmarketos.org/wiki/Devices Peripherals using proprietary drivers being the obvious offenders.
  - 5y ago

NelsonMinar 5y ago

One comparable here is the Raspberry Pi 400 at $70. That doesn't have a screen but has a lot more CPU, etc.

throwanem 5y ago
Doesn't have a battery either, although there's room in the case for one or two flat cells from a laptop pack plus a charge controller.

omair_inam 5y ago

What I'd love for someone to share is the MVP Linux machine I can use to run PiHole... Starter Raspberry Pis (e.g. by Canakit) ... are >$150 CAD on amazon.ca which just seems so expensive.

unnouinceput 5y ago
I run PiHole on a pi zero for like 2 years now. It costed me around $20 when I bought it, retail price, delivery included. Works like a charm
iso1210 5y ago
Mine runs on a years-old Raspberry Pi Model B Rev 2. A Raspberry Pi 3 Model B+ (which has an ethernet port), SD Card and case is about £40 at pihut, that's CAD70 A Zero 2 W with wireless is half that or less including the case, SD Card and power supply.
sigstoat 5y ago
the canakit packages are luxury items with a bunch of stuff you don't need. get a pi, an sd card, a power supply, and a cardboard box to shove it into. you don't need any of the other stuff they include. also get an old pi, not one of the most recent. maybe ask around, lots of folks have a box of older pis. i'd certainly love to get rid of all of the 1s and 2s i've got.

oroup 5y ago

A display mounted on a flat surface between your hands seems like a ready path to neck trauma.

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
pjerem 5y ago
You mean, like a smartphone or a portable console ?
- goodpoint 5y ago
  No, much worse, because you are not able to lift it up in front of your eyes while typing.
  - hypertele-Xii 5y ago
    Why not?
    - gmiller123456 5y ago
      You can't hold it and type at the same time, this device has to be sitting on a surface to type.
      - hypertele-Xii 5y ago
        How so? You can hold it with both hands and type with your thumbs. Or hold it in one hand and type with the other.

andi999 5y ago

The Bom for 1000 pieces is per piece 15$ (and 2.00$ for a 64gbyte sdcard looks optimistic, but difficult to tell typing on my phone). Placing, soldering and assembly is not factored in, wouldnt be surprised if this is another 15$, so production price is 30$, sales price then would be more like 60$. Edit: is the sd card connector missing in the bom? Cool project though.

Closi 5y ago
The SD card is on the BOM (it’s on the bottom) but agree that the price for it looks optimistic. Looking on AliExpress there are lots of unrealistically priced SD cards (1tb for $7!) so I wonder how many of these are just scams where they are formatted to appear bigger than they are, and also if that’s a realistic price that they are using.
- andi999 5y ago
  Yes, the card is on the bom, but I meant the card connector, the thing that is soldered on the pcb, where you put the card in.

samstave 5y ago

Something that I have always wanted was an SMS ONLY device. A device, kind of like the SideKick (remember Danger invented Android, got bought by Google - then the founder was paid ~$90,000,000 severance from Google for coercing a female colleague to be his 'sex slave' -- Yeah, that Danger, Andy Rubin.) but I just want a device that only sends and receives SMS and thats it. Can this machine accept a SIM in a future iteration? (I interviewed with Danger back in the day... but I had the freaking flu and felt like death, and I failed the interview as I was reeling from the flu. It was super stupid of me to go to the interview whilst sick, but I REALLY wanted to work at Danger...)

kotaKat 5y ago
I'd love a modern RIM 850 that could do all my messaging (Discord, Telegram, SMS) and nothing else. Keep the 850 formfactor, keyboard, that amazing thumbwheel, but give it something like e-ink and great connectivity. Hell, throw a WiFi hotspot in it if we absolutely must.
- samstave 5y ago
  And a scrambling MAC... every N minutes.
bserge 5y ago
vdqtp3 5y ago
I've always wanted a receive only messaging device. Iridium still supports satellite pagers which would be perfect for that, but the hardware isn't manufactured anymore and you can't get service without a big plan attached (like DoD)

undecisive 5y ago

> I’m changing the title of this page just to screw with mods on the orange website Loving it! What orange website could they be talking about? I wonder what would be achievable, around the $15 mark WITHOUT needing a minimum order of 1000? (Presuming access to a 3d printer and a reasonably cheap PCB fab company)

masklinn 5y ago
> Loving it! What orange website could they be talking about? In case that's a serious question: what website has an orange theme, and an aggressively enforced rule against editorialising submission titles?
- only4here 5y ago
  well yeah, but why would they want to block out the "orange website"?
  - bryanlarsen 5y ago
    I don't think "screw with" means "block" in this case. But there is one moderately famous blog that does block HN: https://www.jwz.org/ https://www.jwz.org/
    - wanderingjew 5y ago
      yeah I asked jwz how to do that, but I can't figure out a way to make that work with Github pages.
      - Beltalowda 5y ago
        if (document.referrer === 'https://news.ycombinator.com/') window.location = 'https://cdn.jwz.org/images/2016/hn.png' Or something along those lines should work.
      - shakna 5y ago

ajb 5y ago

This is $15 BoM cost (ie, parts), not including assembly, packaging, shipping, etc etc. So not what most people think when they see the headline. Still, it is a nice design

Taniwha 5y ago
nor profit - traditionally as a rule of thumb one doubles the price to cover that, and then again to cover retail markup
- picture 5y ago
  And this is the BOM cost at qty 10,000.

xuhu 5y ago

Haven't I seen this before ? http://www.allaboutsymbian.com/features/images/e70open.jpg http://www.allaboutsymbian.com/features/images/e70open.jpg

mypalmike 5y ago

The enclosure pricing seems optimistic. Or is it possible to get a mold designed, cast, and parts manufactured at ~ $1000 for 1000 pieces?

dekhn 5y ago

I see the creator understands economics: "Low Price! It costs $10,000 USD to build one of these. The ten thousandth one costs $15"

haunter 5y ago

This is like the "budget" posts on /r/DIY: "porch renovation for only $200!" > proceeds to use the industrial sawmill they have in the garage that costs $100k

gmiller123456 5y ago
Not sure where you're getting that idea. All of the parts are purchased, then assembled. There's really no tooling beyond what most electronics enthusiasts would have at home.

Gormisdomai 5y ago

One reason I'd love one of these (or a generally cheap low power linux PC) is just so I could e.g. muck around with e.g. code golf or advetnt-of-code programming puzzles on my commute.

markus_zhang 5y ago

I'm wondering if we can use the same principle to design a miniature cell phone: can only text and make phone calls, very small screen, small keys, etc, using cheap components.

all2 5y ago
I've been thinking about this, too. On Linux this looks like a configuration nightmare of bodging together USB GSM/3G/4G/5G modems and piped commands [0]. No doubt there's a better way. [0] https://www.techytalk.info/send-receive-sms-using-gsm-modem-phone-ubuntu/ https://www.techytalk.info/send-receive-sms-using-gsm-modem-...
mlac 5y ago
Yes, then sell it to minimalists for $300: https://www.thelightphone.com/ https://www.thelightphone.com/
- markus_zhang 5y ago
  Wow the price point is way above. I'm thinking about the mini phone in the movie Taken 2. I actually found a website to purchase a year ago but couldn't find it right now.

mrandish 5y ago

A similar but more powerful and flexible device is the Core2 from M5Stack. It's expandable through stackable snap-on blocks, USB, multiple I2C and a full set of GPIO and signal pins on a header. It has ESP32 CPU, Wifi, Bluetooth, 2" color touchscreen, microphone, power indicator, 6-Axis IMU, vibration motor, I2S codec, amplifier, speaker, RTC, power button, reset button, 10 x RGB LEDs, SD card slot and 3 programmable soft buttons for ~$45. There are dozens of snap-on expansion modules which can also be screwed on for permanent use, including a keyboard module, joystick/D-pad, expanded battery, prototyping breadboard breakout, ethernet and various wireless modules including cellular and LORAWAN. I have several of these along with a bunch of the modules and the system is ideal for prototyping up various things super quickly. Amazon sells their own Core2 bundle with an expanded battery module which is pre-programmed with their IOT prototyping platform firmware but you can just overwrite that back to stock firmware which supports FreeRTOS, MicroPython, UIFlow and Arduino frameworks. https://shop.m5stack.com/products/m5stack-core2-esp32-iot-development-kit https://shop.m5stack.com/products/m5stack-core2-esp32-iot-de... https://www.amazon.com/M5Stack-Core2-ESP32-Development-EduKit/dp/B08VGRZYJR https://www.amazon.com/M5Stack-Core2-ESP32-Development-EduKi...

rsync 5y ago
Here is the QWERTY keyboard for the m5stack: https://www.robotshop.com/en/m5stack-faces-qwerty-keyboard-panel.html https://www.robotshop.com/en/m5stack-faces-qwerty-keyboard-p...
- rahimnathwani 5y ago
  AIUI this can't connect directly to the m5stack. You also need the 'Faces bottom board'. Here's a kit with everything you need, and more: https://shop.m5stack.com/products/face?variant=17290437623898 https://shop.m5stack.com/products/face?variant=1729043762389...
  - mrandish 5y ago
    FYI the kit you linked shows the M5Stack Core1 and shows EOL. The Core1 has been replaced by the Core2 which has improved hardware. I bought the Amazon bundle of the Core2, which is yellow, and separately ordered the modules I was interested in from M5Stack directly including the bottom board and the QWERTY keyboard.

marcodiego 5y ago

Does it need binary blobs? Would be a shame such a device becoma frozen in time because one can't update it.

300bps 5y ago

Important to note that the quoted $15 doesn't include shipping, assembly, tax or any other costs. For the same actual cost I'd go on EBay/Craigslist/FB Marketplace and buy an unlimited number of old computers with 1000x the specs of this one that are going to be otherwise placed into a landfill.

guntars 5y ago
And then carry those old computers around in your pocket?
- 300bps 5y ago
  Sure. Buy a bunch of old Android phones for even less and root them.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

foxfluff 5y ago

How much would it change the cost to put in a Sochip S3, which has 128MB of RAM and can run at 800-900 MHz (if not more)?

guessbest 5y ago

We had something like this in 2001. It was called the Agenda vr3 and it ran a full X session with the FLTK in 16meg of RAM. However, the history of PDA's that run linux is mostly lost since LinuxDevices.com doesn't really exist anymore. I owned several of these including Agenda VR3, Vtech Helio, Zaurus, etc. It was quite a nice system even without wireless unless you count IrDA. It used FTP over RS-232 for installing software using a primitive packaging system. The little linux distros for these devices didn't really take off until the Zaurus SL-5500 took off by going on sale for $220 on the home shopping network in 2003, and someone developed the packing system called ipk which was a little more intelligent and reminiscent of Slackware's packing system. https://www.techrepublic.com/article/marrying-linux-and-the-pda-with-the-help-of-agenda/ https://www.techrepublic.com/article/marrying-linux-and-the-... Agenda VR3 specs : Processor: 66 MHz 32 bit NEC VR4181 MIPS; Memory: 8 MB of RAM plus 16 MB of Flash Memory NOTE: This could play mp3's while running an FTP server. https://web.archive.org/web/20030219081647/http://www.linuxdevices.com/articles/AT8394069979.html https://web.archive.org/web/20030219081647/http://www.linuxd... Zaurus packages : https://www.zaurus.org.uk/download/cacko/feed/ https://www.zaurus.org.uk/download/cacko/feed/ Zaurus specs : Intel SA-1110 StrongARM processor running at 206 MHz, has 64 MB of RAM and 16MB Flash NOTE: This could play MP3's, MP4 at 320x240, run an SSH server, etc. I'm surprised there aren't more systems out there, but a lot of these linux devices in the 2000's (the aught years) were just other systems cannibalized for linux like the iPaq line. Eventually some people put this together in to something called Familiar Linux and trying to standardize the whole thing. handhelds.org doesn't exist anymore, though. https://www.drdobbs.com/packing-linux-on-ipaq/199200756 https://www.drdobbs.com/packing-linux-on-ipaq/199200756 The whole openembedded (OE) system showed promise and came from the guy who made Gentoo, but it got mostly abandoned and merged in to other projects (YOCTO) when he went to work for Microsoft. https://www.openembedded.org/wiki/Main_Page https://www.openembedded.org/wiki/Main_Page https://docs.yoctoproject.org/ https://docs.yoctoproject.org/ I kind of gave up on this all when I started developing for iPhone OS 3. It just worked with regards to wireless, and I realized I was more interested in the application layer anyway. Before 2020, you could get an iPhone 5s for about $20 on ebay, so it really had all I wanted including GPS. There was someone who put together a site called http://pocketworkstation.org/ http://pocketworkstation.org/ which isn't in the internet archive (archive.org) that had a whole LaTeX system working in Window Maker on the various Zaurus models. It was a scaled down desktop with 7 bit fonts, but it could be VNC into and used. Fun times. EDIT: formatting and specs for low end devices

7thaccount 5y ago

I don't need it, but want it :)

anthk 5y ago

Give me a 80x24 font terminal and framebuffer support for SD2/video/images/PDF, and I'm sold. This has no internet support, but who cares as I can just rsync the NNTP dir from/to slrn in my laptop and read good stuff offline, and just answer over the laptop, too. Or, well, an Atheros dongle would work fine. For coding, JimTCL with or without SDL2 is fun, and, for gaming, text adventures and roguelikes would rock here.

jandrese 5y ago
The screen is just too low rez for an 80x24 terminal. You would need a 3x9 font, which I know from experience are close to unreadable. 320x240 displays more often ran at 40x24 which is too small for the modern world. At the end of the article he talked about upgrading to a 640x480 display which would make the 80x24 terminal a real possibility. The surprisingly expensive 800x480 display would be even better, you would have the possibility of running a square 9x9 font, or more likely increasing the console resolution to 100x24.
- anthk 5y ago
  I ran 80x25 fine under the zipit z2 but had to place it near your face as if it was a Game Boy. But the Z2 Nethack build was patched to support a ~64x16 res (68x20 I think), so that worked well among some forth interpreter and well, gopher clients and IRC. The custom Slashem I built didn't have that patch, (and the patch was doable for sure), but I was lazy and just ran setfont. Z machine games were perfectly playable on 64x16.

CameronBanga 5y ago

I believe per HN rules, the title here should be changed to properly reflect the title of the article?

tombert 5y ago

This reminds me (in a good way) of the GPD Win computers. Obviously smartphones are cool, I have one, I like it, but it annoys me that in some senses they're still not as good as a Windows 98 laptop from 24 years ago. Their version of MS Office isn't as intuitive, there's not the same level of programming language/compiler support, on iOS you're restricted to the App Store, etc. The GPD Win was the first time I saw a good attempt at a "real" computer that fits in your pocket, and I have one and love it dearly for on-the-train coding, but sadly the pricepoint is a bit high for most people. If I can get something that feels like a real computer for less than $50, I'll be the first in line to buy it.

emteycz 5y ago
A rooted Android smartphone with Nix is a full Linux computer. I have Node.js, VSCode, C/C++, etc - all while keeping access to all phone capabilities. I haven't tried yet but there shouldn't be any problem with running X server and a full DE (I access the VSCode through Android browser now).
- tombert 5y ago
  Interesting. I don't use Android anymore but I have like four old phones lying around that I could easily use to play with. I wonder if this has better battery life than the GPD Win, and it would be a free experiment for me.
  - emteycz 5y ago
    Well my phone (Samsung S9+) can do like 12 hours of Node.js+VSCode coding while using BT keyboard and mouse. Not bad IMHO. And the USB-C port of this phone can be used with a usual dock to connect it to a screen and wired peripherals.
    - tombert 5y ago
      Do you have a keyboard case that lets you just type with your thumbs?

crims0n 5y ago

Reminds me of Pocket C.H.I.P, which apparently still has new stock for sale. I never used mine as much as wanted to though... largely I think due to the keyboard.

Ecco 5y ago

The display price in the BoM is absolutely not where the market is at today… I'm not even sure it has ever been there. I'd love to have more info on where they are supposedly getting a panel for this price.

jrockway 5y ago

For those interested in getting something going off the shelf: Keyboard Featherwing: https://www.adafruit.com/product/4818 https://www.adafruit.com/product/4818 Linux-capable Feather: https://www.crowdsupply.com/groboards/giant-board https://www.crowdsupply.com/groboards/giant-board Add a lithium polymer battery of your choosing to compute on the go. (Also possible to add WiFi or SMS with a Featherwing for people that are interested in that. https://www.adafruit.com/product/4264 https://www.adafruit.com/product/4264 etc.) OK, it's not really off the shelf. No doubt many hours involving pulling out your hair to set up the device tree are involved before you can do anything fun.

donpdonp 5y ago

For those of you who are intrigued by this cyberdeck, there is an active community around such DIY small computing platforms. Check out https://cyberdeck.cafe/ https://cyberdeck.cafe/ and especially their discord server. There are tons of amazing projects there.

1MachineElf 5y ago

I'm in love this device and would pay 10x the cost to have one if it included Wifi and QMK firmware for the keyboard. Bluetooth and NFC would be great too, but not critical. The keyboard reminds me a lot of the Atreus42, which is ideal for me. Too many of these small devices follow a conventional keyboard layout (looking at you, ClockworkPi DevTerm and Popcorn Pocket Computer).

__float 5y ago

It seems the author is now redirecting the blog post to a static image, presumably to screw with HN even more: https://github.com/bbenchoff/bbenchoff.github.io/commit/9e77831cc2a694ba9f865052478fc2aaaf973892 https://github.com/bbenchoff/bbenchoff.github.io/commit/9e77...

wanderingjew 5y ago
no, I'm just testing something out. I changed it back. Yes I test in prod.

synergy20 5y ago

looks cute, it took me a while to figure out what's the user case(or the market) so far I have no idea where I need it

nullsmack 5y ago

The best part about this is that it appears to take AAA batteries.

ruffrey 5y ago

WiFi?

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]

jl6 5y ago

Would be nice to see an equivalent “minimum viable trustable computer” that used only parts from “trusted” supply chains (pick your own definition of “trusted”, but it might for example exclude generic parts marketplaces).

ajb 5y ago
https://betrusted.io/ https://betrusted.io/ is pretty much that. Initial HW platform is there, not sure how much of the SW is ready
- jl6 5y ago
  Yes, that sort of thing! Its claim to trustworthiness seems to be based on the idea that its CPU runs on an FPGA so you can audit the source code for that and compile it yourself. But the underlying FPGA looks like a proprietary Xilinx device. Who’s auditing that?
alexisread 5y ago
Pinedio stack is probably the best cheap option, as it has been fully reverse engineered, including the radios- no firmware blobs. Similar to m5 stack but riscV core. For an OS you have nuttx, but for the memory size, Oberon ports (A2) might be feasible.

jethro_tell 5y ago

Needs an escape key on the keeb

WaitWaitWha 5y ago

Like the idea. Reconsider the keyboard. If we presume the target users are other than first-world, the likelihood of only have one hand or missing fingers increases significantly. The keyboard becomes very cumbersome. (source: found out the hard way when brought toys that require two hands or all fingers to play with, in worn-torn countries.)

arduinomancer 5y ago
Do you mean the keyboard being split across the screen would be hard to use for those people?
- WaitWaitWha 5y ago
  yes. will have a hard time kbding on split keyboard while looking at the screen,which is directly under their hand movements.
- coatmatter 5y ago
  Both of my hands are quite dexterous, but I still often find myself typing with one finger if it's on a smartphone (I'm still not used to typing with my thumbs), or one hand if I'm on a normal full sized keyboard (such as when I'm eating or snacking). I've owned a split keyboard before (MS Natural Elite) and it was fine, but I'm unlikely to ever buy a split keyboard again.
mackrevinack 5y ago
the keyboard could do with having a flat base as well. it looks like it would rock all over the place when you type, even when using it with two hands

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

zokier 5y ago

Where do you find F1C100s for $.75 @1ku? How much more would it cost to upgrade the SoC to something bit more modern, like V3S/R11 (or others from that family)? https://www.cnx-software.com/2018/03/30/allwinner-s3-camera-soc-includes-128mb-ram-an-i2s-audio-interface/ https://www.cnx-software.com/2018/03/30/allwinner-s3-camera-... > I’ve been told V3, V3S, S3, S3L, R11 are all the same chip, but with packaging variations.

hffftz 5y ago

einpoklum 5y ago

The idea is great, but the layout of the keyboard is such that, well, I wouldn't use this keyboard. It's extremely inconvenient IMHO to split it in the middle. You will have to either retrain your hands, or keep looking right and left. I realize this might be due to some combination of constraints, but $15 or $1500 - the form factor matters.

jokoon 5y ago

I'm guessing there are GUI things that would fit in that thing?

nfriedly 5y ago
Gmenu2X / GmenuNX is a simple launcher program designed for small displays that runs well on that CPU. This is the fork that I've worked with: https://github.com/MiyooCFW/gmenunx https://github.com/MiyooCFW/gmenunx Edit: here is the original: http://mtorromeo.github.io/gmenu2x/ http://mtorromeo.github.io/gmenu2x/

lstodd 5y ago

This is cool, but Flipper Zero is in my opinion, cooler. https://flipperzero.one/ https://flipperzero.one/

anfractuosity 5y ago
The Flipper Zero does look fun, but $160 is pretty expensive alas, but I understand injection moulding doesn't come cheap. I really like their blog on how the moulds etc. were made too. Also iirc the firmware is now open.
- lstodd 5y ago
  Molds aren't cheap, but as someone who've been around while F0 was created it's not that imo. It's setting up the pipeline, shitty PCBs in batches of hundreds, fuckups with parts, etc. If you do a couple of prototypes it's fine. If you want to make a thousand or two, you are in a world of pain.
yayr 5y ago
or this: https://www.hardkernel.com/shop/odroid-go-advance-black-edition/ https://www.hardkernel.com/shop/odroid-go-advance-black-edit... and it does come with a more digestible price tag

gorgoiler 5y ago

1/ This is cool. I love it. 2/ As per the very start of the article — and this is off topic I’m afraid but… — let’s say I did want to root a prepaid Android phone. What is the best phone I should go for?

nfriedly 5y ago

That F1C100s CPU is the same one that's used for Business Card Linux [1] as well as a bunch of cheap ($20~40) handheld retro gaming consoles that run Linux and emulators. It can handle emulating NES, most SNES games, Sega Genesis & Game Gear, Game Boy Color and most GBA games, even a few PS1 games like FFVII. I bet it wouldn't take too much work to port the Miyoo Custom Firmware [2] over to it. Also, the CPU can be overclocked to 700-800mhz pretty trivially. It gives a nice little bump in performance and it doesn't even have much effect on the power draw. [1]: https://github.com/thirtythreeforty/businesscard-linux https://github.com/thirtythreeforty/businesscard-linux [2]: https://github.com/TriForceX/MiyooCFW https://github.com/TriForceX/MiyooCFW

jbverschoor 5y ago

Where are the cursor keys? Back to vi-keys I guess

loser777 5y ago

If you cranked up the maximum swap size, would you theoretically be able to build the kernel? (Is it truly a viable Linux machine if it can't build its own kernel?) What would be the expected build time? Days? Months?

jeremyjh 5y ago
Who builds their own kernel other than enthusiasts? Even companies that develop their own kernel branch don't build it on every machine that runs it. What practical difficulty is imposed if you can't?
zeusk 5y ago
ARM926EJ is pretty capable, I had one in my Intel XScale based PDA. I'd say a day at max if it had enough memory.

ineedasername 5y ago

There was a time when the first question asked of such a device would be "Can it run Doom?" If you don't remember that time, then I guess I'm getting old. In any case, it's nearly a useless question these days: very few things with a chip are so dumb they can't run Doom. We need a new metric.

WaxProlix 5y ago
"Can it run crysis?"

renonce 5y ago

In China we buy second-hand Redmi 2 for 60RMB each (roughly $9.5). Can be bought in quantities. Fully functional with 2GB RAM+16GB eMMC, and battery, touchscreen, WiFi, Bluetooth, camera, and even 4G support. It's not built from scratch like this one, but if you are just looking for something cheap, then this price is insane.

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
wolpoli 5y ago
Something like this would be awesome when paired with a physical keyboard.
throw10920 5y ago
Amazing that we went from this potato[1] for $12 in 2013 to that Redmi 2 in 9 years. Now, you said that you buy the Redmi second-hand, but still - the leap is amazing. [1] https://www.bunniestudios.com/blog/?page_id=3107 https://www.bunniestudios.com/blog/?page_id=3107
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- schwartzworld 5y ago
  If you threw a a Qwerty keyboard and command line on that thing, it would be on the front page of HN right now
kragen 5y ago
How easy is it to patch its kernel?
- stragies 5y ago
  It would seem a mainline linux kernel can run everything apart from the camera on (Redmi 2) SnapDragon 410: https://wiki.postmarketos.org/wiki/MSM8916_Mainlining https://wiki.postmarketos.org/wiki/MSM8916_Mainlining

afandian 5y ago

I'm holding out for an MNT Pocket Reform. Though it won't be $15. https://pocket-reform.ghost.io/ https://pocket-reform.ghost.io/ weirdly the most info is in LinkedIn https://www.linkedin.com/company/pocket-reform https://www.linkedin.com/company/pocket-reform

chrisbrandow 5y ago

very cool. My only quibble would be the keyboard layout. split is completely fine, but the actual placement of keys does not seem ideal. Assuming that the origin of the thumbs would be bottom left and right, I'd rotate the layout of the keys a few degrees to match that reach. Hard to know without actually holding it and trying.

codazoda 5y ago

I used to love my Alphasmart for writing. I don't know if this keyboard would work very well for a touch typist, but maybe. The AA batteries are a real bonus for me. Plus, with Linux in it, it could do a lot more. I do agree with others that wifi would be a killer feature to add to this thing.

overgard 5y ago

This is a neat idea and clever execution, but I just can't imagine ever using this over like a donated out-of-date laptop or something. I'd love to see something at like a 50-100 price point that could theoretically be more usable (more than 47 keys, more screen resolution, built in wifi)

vinceguidry 5y ago
I've sometimes thought about going to some small village somewhere and teaching interested locals how to code and use computers. I would need small, cheap devices that I can just replace whenever they get lost/stolen. Also standardized enough that I don't have to spend a ton of time doing hardware support. If someone brought a >$20 fully-contained device to market then I could buy 20 of them and plan a 6 month trip abroad. Being not super-useful as general purpose machines is a bonus. This idea's been kicking around in my head since the OLPC was announced, but nobody's delivered yet. Chromebooks are too expensive.
- a9h74j 5y ago
  I find out-of-date used Chromebooks are available for $50.
  - vinceguidry 5y ago
    Can I buy a lot of 20 of them? All in the same model and in the same rough shape?
    - iak8god 5y ago
      Yeah https://www.ebay.com/itm/334305121838 https://www.ebay.com/itm/334305121838
- overgard 5y ago
  It would be nice to have. One thought I can't shake is how wasteful the world is with perfectly good hardware that's "obsolete". For instance, I have an iPhone 5C that I practically can't give away which is way more powerful than the idea presented here. But because the hardware is undocumented and locked down and it's stupid difficult to replace the battery, there doesn't seem to be a reasonable way to turn it into a cheap computer, even though it really should be possible. (To be honest, I'd probably still use it as my phone if it still received security updates and I could replace the battery)

fsiefken 5y ago

> battery life is long enough what's 'long enough'? i'd love a on-the-go linux with e-ink and very low power chip so i can use it for a week.

nielsole 5y ago
The NiMH batteries are likely in series. They have a capacity of 600mAh. The Lichee Nano that this board is based on has a power consumption (with display of 250mA[0]) [0] https://media.digikey.com/pdf/Data%20Sheets/Seeed%20Technology/102110201_Web.pdf https://media.digikey.com/pdf/Data%20Sheets/Seeed%20Technolo... So even if you can't fully discharge the NiMH batteries you should comfortably get an hour of battery life out of this thing, much more, if you don't use the display.

zokier 5y ago

> I’ve already written a driver for a 800x480 display, and it could work over SPI. This display is somewhat expensive, with a bare panel coming in at $12 Alibaba has some 800x480 displays for as low as $4.5-6.5 (@1ku), I wonder if those are just bullshit or is there some catch. They don't have SPI interface, so driving them might be bit more involved? But the SoC should have the hardware for that, so its just a matter of writing drivers? https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/800x480-resolution-5-inch-RGB-interface_1600151223350.html https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/800x480-resolution-5-... https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/5-inch-6-O-clock-viewing_60642436364.html https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/5-inch-6-O-clock-view...

miav 5y ago

> It costs $10,000 USD to build one of these > The ten thousandth one costs $15 As a software engineer, I'm used to being able to build essentially whatever I want, with the only cost being my time. I'm often unpleasantly reminded that software is an outlier in that regard and as soon as physical items are concerned, especially hardware, it turns out that manufacturing even a simple thing is prohibitively expensive if it's done at a small scale.

desireco42 5y ago
Yes that is true, but only thanks to huge reliance on OPEN SOURCE. :) Without it, no tools, no infrastructure, no nothing.
mastazi 5y ago
In the software world something that works roughly similarly (i.e. where a prototype is differentiated from production) is devops. If you are deploying a toy-project once, maybe you are not setting up a CI/CD pipeline, Terraform templates, Github team permissions, Github/Jira integration, etc etc. - you do all of these things only for "real" products. But yeah, going from prototype to production with hardware is much, much harder, I agree with you.
- mike_hock 5y ago
  And the macro architecture of the project. As a one man project, the only thing it makes sense to build is a monolith.
  - mastazi 5y ago
    Yeah as a solo freelance dev I couldn't see how stuff like microservices would remotely be helpful to me in any way. But a few years later I worked in a large-ish team where at some point we hit a wall due to the project being a monolith[1], then I realised what that stuff was about. [1] the project changed scope and we had to do a large refactoring of the codebase as a result, if it had been based on microservices the refactoring would have been an order of magnitude simpler. Luckily the monolith was relatively well architected with separated service providers so it wasn't super bad.

NWoodsman 5y ago

Picture this: - monocoque anodized aluminum housing with coin screw o-ring battery port that houses an 18650; -silicon gasketed polycarbonate faceplate held with stainless hex button head screws, waterproof to 100 meters - tactile clicky button keys beneath a silicone membrane for waterproof-ness. - detachable rubberized wifi antenna. A feller can dream...

NWoodsman 5y ago
oh and Qi charging so you don't have to open the case to charge.

yayr 5y ago

As an alternative, for iOS folks this might be an interesting pocket solution as well: https://getutm.app https://getutm.app

1vuio0pswjnm7 5y ago

Nice. As a non-brogrammer, a battery-powered, pocket Linux/BSD computer without a "phone" built into it that boots from SD card/USB stick is exactly what I am looking for. No GUI required. Willing to pay more than $15.

veltas 5y ago

This would be much more minimum and much more viable if you just assume the user can acquire "a USB keyboard" for little or nothing.

varispeed 5y ago

This looks great, but I am not sure how would I use a computer without cursors and pgup / pgdown / home / end keys at very least? Am I missing something?

jdlyga 5y ago

I like the cold war tech aesthetic of this. I can imagine 1 million soviet troops being outfitted with a handheld MVP computer each as part of their kits.

MartijnBraam 5y ago

Quite sad that this is the Allwinner SoC without a FPU in it, making distro options more limited. Something like the v3s has similar specs but has a new enough ARM core to have an FPU making it possible to run armhf/armv7 distros instead of armel (debian naming)

foobarbecue 5y ago

Love it. Text says price is for 10000 units, BOM price column header says 1000 units. Which is it?

abetusk 5y ago

The first one costs $10k? It seems a bit disingenuous. All the electronics and PCB manufacture is more expensive in single quantities, but I would be shocked if it wasn't still within 2x-3x of $15 (namely $30-$45). The big initial expense, as far as I can tell, is the custom enclosure and keyboard. Maybe there's an interim design that doesn't require injection molded parts?

eternityforest 5y ago

I think this could even be almost with a few small changes. I think there is room for a new class of device in between smartphones and fixed function machines like TV remotes. If I bought an OSHW product and it shipped with this as the controller, or I saw one of these just hanging out running an irrigation system, I'd say "Yep, they sure did an awesome design there. I would ditch the SD card as part of the BOM. I don't trust that $2 SD card for anything but read only root operation. Lots of people would rather use a SanDisk they already have, so I'd say the cheap card should be an optional addon. With the money saved from that, and maybe by just bumping up the price a tiny bit, could you tack WiFi/BT? This sounds slightly insane, but what if you slapped an ESP32 module on there? Not only could it serve as a WiFi and Bluetooth interface, but the power draw can be microscopic. You could have the option to have it always running. That means it could be the real time clock. RTCs are needed more and more for various security related things, and are very important for data logging. Instead of breaking out GPIO for the "shitty ad-on" connector, break out ESP32 GPIO. Now that add-on can run IN LOW POWER MODE!!! You could make an incredibly low power thing that logs to RAM, and wakes up once a day to 4G upload it! It could also serve as the battery level ADC monitor if you don't already have one. It could serve as the USB device for the C port, so you could plug it in to a a host machine AND have the spare USB-A port. It would also let you really deeply control and test network access. Since you can write your own ESP firmware, and it has GPIO, potentially you can implement your own IP-over-LoRa hackery with addon modules or something, that works transparently. It's large RAM could also be exposed as a filesystem for tiny frequently updated things, that only need to be semi-persistent. Plus, you could give it a debugging firmware and use it as a USB to serial interface for debugging. The whole platform kind of becomes software defined!! You might need some kind of recovery jumper in case bad ESP firmware told the main processor to shut off, preventing you from fixing it. But that could just be a DIP switch to disable the ESP, which would also act as an RF kill. Going eeeevvven fuurrrtherrr*, that NiMH is probably the second biggest weakness here. I think there would be more demand if you swap it for an 18650 or lithium AA, even if it cost more. If you look around, a lot of people really love that form factor. You could save a bit of money by just letting people use their own 18650. Or, even better, you could use a 2.4V LTO battery. These are $3.30 in QTY10 on AliExpress. They can be float charged. They have a linear voltage curve. Incredibly safe, and they can last 7000 to 20k cycles. Set your step down regulator for the float voltage and you are good to go if it's accurate enough. Use an IO pin that can turn it off and you can terminate for extra life. With a simple dumb charging regime, you will have no oddities when running right off a solar panel through a 12v to USB converter. Now you have the perfect offgrid tech tool! If the extension interface has a good mechanical connection(Like a screw) and 3D-printable addon modules, a lot of standalone devices could go away. OBD scan tool? Multimeter? Geiger counter? Nope, just sell these in a kit with a preattached module. For niche hardware it might actually be cheaper to rebrand these than to do your own interface, and these are way more flexible. Lastly, the ESP32 can handle audio, and audible alerts are important. But beyond that, walkie talkies EPICALLY SUCK. It would add cost, but the thing could almost totally replace FRS radios, and have 10x the battery life and as much range as you want with Wi-Fi mesh, with just a tiny speaker and mic, or even without one, just using bluetooth. Plus, sound is pretty essential for use in a game console. Currently, there are basically no devices in this class since things like the Zipit Z2 went away. So I am super excited to see how this goes!! I already have some ideas for a menu system that could make this usable for non-hackers, without going to a full GUI.

wanderer_ 5y ago

mmmmm.... me want! I'll buy it if he puts it out there. "the mechanical keyboard mafia" is the most startlingly accurate phrase I have read today.

Teknoman117 5y ago

This is super cool. I'm going to have to "make my own Linux SBC" at some point, just to be able to say I did it. It was something I always wanted to do as kid after hearing my dad's stories of designing and building computers with his uncles in the 70's and 80's from parts catalogs. Admittedly, having the whole system on a single package for the most part makes this decidedly simpler. Up until this point the hardest thing for me was doing the SoC <-> DDR3 traces in KiCad. They're remarkably less forgiving than PCIe, but I guess that is the curse of modern RAM chips not using differential IO. That and figuring how how to solder BGA. Making my first attempt with some cheaper FPGAs and a hotplate pretty soon.

nomilk 5y ago

Suppose you have all the parts and a workbench, how long would it take to assemble one unit from start to finish?

nomadiccoder 5y ago

I loved hackaday back when I was in undergrad :) Very inspiring to see cool projects like this.

debbiedowner 5y ago

Where is the Kickstarter?

neilv 5y ago

Would buyers prefer this split keyboard layout, or a blackberry-style layout? Personally, my ideal handheld would be something like my old Nokia E61, but with open hardware, mainline Linux, at least .11n WiFi, and isolated 4G/5G cellular. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nokia_E61 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nokia_E61

elviejo 5y ago

I love that keyboard, that is how I want the keyboard in my laptop to be: track pad in the center .. with split keyboard on the sides. 17 inch laptop

deleted 5y ago

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mbrodersen 5y ago

I would buy it.

rasengan0 5y ago

I'd like to sign up but I'm still waiting for the Pyra handheld, er ... pre-ordered 2016 [1] Pro-tip: Get help and factor in delays when making stuff :-) [1] https://pyra-handheld.com/boards/pages/pyra/ https://pyra-handheld.com/boards/pages/pyra/

toolslite 5y ago

vaxman 5y ago

There should be some industry-subsidized program where upon (a) it’s free to 4th-7th graders and available for pickup at local stores using a thumbprint; (b) it should have free packet connectivity to Internet, perhaps through something like Sidewalk, the FindMy network and the piggyback WiFi networks that cable coNpanies [sic] have started installing into the neighbor’s “WiFi routers” to support their new CLEC+ mobile service; (c) if a youth spends enough time working on one in certain ways (perhaps a minimum of two hours per day on average in Emacs/Mu/VIM or certain types of nCurses variants of Jupytr, Mathematica, VisiCalc, SQLiteStudio, etc… as verified by signals emitted to the Cloud from the ROM/BSP), then they receive eligibility to go pickup a progression of “snap-on” upgrades (7” LCD, storage, 5GUW, etc), eventually (after thousands of hours) leading to a “snap-on” compatible rPi400 as they’re getting ready for high school. Yeah, it’s pretty anemic compared to where we really should be as a society right now, but it’s a lot more realistic than giving out locked-down $300 iPads equipped with MDM and supporting infrastructure to 4th graders that starve during the Summer (when school lunches are closed).

abc_lisper 5y ago

Or you can buy a old android phone on eBay for the same price. Phones have made computing accessible than any other effort to make it cheaper ala OLPC. There are parallels to capitalists making the world a better place than religions and philosophies.

user500 5y ago

to my understanding the f1c200s just twice the ram and otherwise a drop in repacment. however I am not sure about cost.