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Y’know what headphones really did “just work” though? Wired headphones, circa 2017. Their battery life was infinite. You could “pair” them in seconds to any dev

Y’know what headphones really did “just work” though? Wired headphones, circa 2017. Their battery life was infinite. You could “pair” them in seconds to any device with a headphone jack, aka any device, because we’re in 2017. Oh, and they were cheaper and better for the environment. Courage, indeed. And this is why I’m currently typing my comment on an iPhone 6S...

duxup 5y ago
I think it goes to show how much “just works enough “ consumers are happy to tolerate for wireless over other advantages of wired. I remember early consumer wi- fi was just garbage compared to wired and… we still used it happily. Granted sometimes we go back… my cars Bluetooth is so maddening I use a cable instead.
- falcolas 5y ago
  FWIW, the proliferation of video calls over my laptop has pushed me back to wired internet at my desk. Combined with wired headphones - I have so much less latency than any of my co-workers. It's nice to not have to play the "can you hear me" song and dance.
  - ashtonkem 5y ago
    I did that until I updated the wifi in my house. There’s a combination wired/wireless wire plate under my desk, but I don’t bother wiring it into my work computer, because the wifi is faster than what the cheap USB C adapter can offer.
    - falcolas 5y ago
      Faster and lower latency are not the same things. > the cheap USB C adapter I have to ask, what kind of internet speeds do you have where even a cheap wired adapter can't beat it? That's pretty incredible.
      - duxup 5y ago
        You getting a lot of latency over wifi? I find wifi almost entirely dies around the time I get wonky latency... but having said that everyone's wifi situation is different depending on network, building / home structure and etc.
      - ashtonkem 5y ago
        950 down, 50 up. Wifi will pull 450 easy, but my hub will only do 100, despite claims to the contrary. 450 is good enough for my use case, so it’s easier to just not worry about it and avoid running another wire up the sit stand desk. If I upgrade my hub to something that’ll pull the claimed 1G, I might change. Or maybe not. I dunno. Literally nothing I do on the internet can get close to saturating it. Edit: wifi adds a mere 5ms of latency in my office. I consider this beneath my notice for basically everything but gaming. And even there it probably is meaningless given my relatively low skill level.
        falcolas 5y ago
        > my hub will only do 100 Oof, that sucks. 5ms per round trip adds up, especially when you add in every other source of latency in your chain. I've also found that, thanks to general RF noise from everything being wireless these days, latency spikes occur much more often over wi-fi than wired. YMMV, of course. Always worth measuring your own experience.
        ashtonkem 5y ago
        I went back to wireless specifically because I was noticing issues on that hub. I went to the trouble to setup control plane to disable wifi when Ethernet was plugged in, and zoom performance tanked. Going back to wifi solved it. I think that the adapter was dropping packets, but I never bothered to triage since wifi works great in this house. It’s worth mentioning that my setup has very, very low latency. Lag between me and the speed test server in city is 5ms wired, 10ms wireless. My router is way overpowered for what I ask of it, so throughput and latency tends to be very good. To be fair, my wifi setup is a bit … extra. I’m running 5 APs, two switches, a controller, and a dedicated router, with a dedicated AP for my office that’s a combo wired/wireless outlet. I’ve turned it down so that it’s basically only serving my office, and it has a dedicated cat6 backhaul to the network cabinet, no sharing airspace with other APs. If I hadn’t gone to all this trouble, I’d probably upgrade my hub and go wired.
- Wowfunhappy 5y ago
  I agree, but I'm going to defend the wifi case a little. Ethernet doesn't work if you're using a laptop, because it defeats the purpose of having a portable computer in the first place. You either have to be able to work offline, or you have to stay next to an ethernet plug. I said above that wired headphones have infinite battery life. I suppose I could say the same about a desktop computer versus a laptop, but I don't think that would be fair.
jrm4 5y ago
And also, you could pair them with your handheld device in 1980.
yoz-y 5y ago
Honestly, the fact that I no longer snag my earphones on random protrusions, like doorknobs and bus ticket validating machines is a bliss. Cables inside at a desk: sure, why not. Cables outside: hard pass.
- bravetraveler 5y ago
  I get that no cables can be nice and convenient, but routing the wire through a shirt/jacket helps avoid getting caught edit: lol, an instant downvote - didn't realize I was on Reddit. It was at best a suggestion for when you have to get by with cabled headphones. I'm not on some holy war.
- swah 5y ago
  Ditto. And since we now wear masks at the office, one notices how wireless earbuds are "mask compatible" when you try using cabled ones.
  - falcolas 5y ago
    Really? I always see them go flying when taking off a mask to eat or drink. The random protrusions to escape the faraday cage that is your head don't seem to interact well with elastic loops.
  - pessimizer 5y ago
    Wired earbuds are amazing with masks. If you put them on before you put on the mask, when you need to take one off to hear something, the mask straps hold it conveniently hanging near your ear. A fumbled airpod rolling across the floor is not an improvement.
- Cthulhu_ 5y ago
  I'd pass the wires through my shirt, keep them from snagging or pulling my ears too much.
  - munk-a 5y ago
    Back in the day I made good use of those oversized jacket pockets to pop my CD player in - then you just run the cable up under your shirt and you're good to go. It's surprising how little of a hassle headphone cables can be - I understand that the market is going elsewhere but I've stuck with wired and couldn't be more content. This does have the side effect that I've been soft locked out of Apple phones though, so I switched over to Android devices.
deleted 5y ago
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iqanq 5y ago
After using airpods I am never ever going back to wired headphones.
- Razengan 5y ago
  I am sorry but you must be downvoted to prevent your counter opinion from being seen.
Causality1 5y ago
Not to mention zero latency. Trying to have multiple people in a car play music/podcasts is a nightmare over bluetooth when you used to be able to just pass an aux cable around.
- prox 5y ago
  I bought a Sony that does BT and wired, I love the whynotboth movement personally. Why do we have to choose?
  - KptMarchewa 5y ago
    WH-1000xm3 sound much worse when wired. They are made to use internal DAC.
    - thebean11 5y ago
      Wouldn't wired use the DAC on the device rather than the headphones? I thought the 3.5mm jack carried an analog signal.
      - writeslowly 5y ago
        Those Sony headphones do processing to the signal regardless of whether you're using wireless or a 3.5mm. They can still make sound with no power but it feels more like a backup in case the battery is dead. It seems like a sensible design decision given that most users will want them turned on for noise canceling even if they're wired.
      - ziml77 5y ago
        That's his point. They're using the device's DAC when wired which is why it doesn't sound as good as when using Bluetooth through the headphones' DAC.
        thebean11 5y ago
        Sure but that's an issue with wired headphones in general, not specific to these.
chii 5y ago
I used to be like you. Then i tried, for real, a pair of bluetooth headphones. The disadvantages of the bluetooth is by far outweighed by the wireless advantage. The mobility, flexibility and convenience of no tangles and accidental wire pulling and causing phone to drop - all worth it. And wireless UX is only going to get better. Wired is dead.
- silent_cal 5y ago
  Did you try putting the wire under your clothes or something?
  - greedo 5y ago
    That's incredibly inconvenient and often uncomfortable.
- xg15 5y ago
  The mobility, flexibility snd convenience of me still sitting on front of the same PC for eight hours?
  - nisegami 5y ago
    Use the right tool for the job. Sometimes that's wired headphones. Sometimes that's bluetooth headphones.
    - dspillett 5y ago
      Though being able to use the right tool, in circumstances where that is a wired set, can be a problem on some platforms.
      - criddell 5y ago
        The "right tool" might be an adapter or hub.
      - openknot 5y ago
megapolitics 5y ago
>Their battery life was infinite. However, the life of the cable was a few months at best in my experience.
- Wowfunhappy 5y ago
  Well, you had to pay more for better headphones with better cables. But wireless headphones are expensive anyway. (And have non-replaceable batteries which will also permanently die after a couple years.)
  - ziml77 5y ago
    The best cables still break when they're moving a lot. The important thing is for the headphones to have replaceable cables. But only the high-end headphones and earbuds have that feature.
    - soylentcola 5y ago
      I can only speak from my own experience, but I've been using the same set of wired KZ ZSN in-ear-monitors for the past few years. They're nothing ground-breaking, but they cost under $25. The wires loop back behind my ears so they don't get pulled out easily, the wires have yet to short out, and they are replaceable in case I ever want or need to replace them. I almost always use them with my phone, so the USB-C-to-3.5mm dongle that came with my phone is typically attached to the end. I don't mean to shill for this or any other brand in particular, but I'm pretty sure there are several affordable, decent quality earbuds/IEMs out there with replaceable cables.
      - dont__panic 5y ago
        Replaceable cables are a game changer in this space. The buds will last for years and years, and make up the bulk of the cost of a set. The cable could get ruined by one unlucky event... but if you have a couple of backup cables like me, it doesn't really matter. You can buy replacement cables off of Aliexpress for <$10.
    - 5y ago
ericmay 5y ago
I wouldn't let the lack of a headphone jack deter you from upgrading a phone if you wanted. You can get one of those adapter things and just leave it attached to your headphones if you wanted. I know people think it's annoying that you even have to do this but it's an option. I bet you can get one for free from a friend even. I do have a nostalgic feelings for the iPhone 4s and headphones. I wish there were products out there that excited me in the same way my first iPhone did.
- Wowfunhappy 5y ago
  > You can get one of those adapter things and just leave it attached to your headphones if you wanted. The problem is that I’d have to unplug that adapter to use my headphones with a device other than my phone, including other Apple devices like my Macbook. I would subsequently loose the adapter, guaranteed. If the world could agree to use USB-C for everything, that might work, but Apple—who started this mess—is a prime holdout there.
  - ericmay 5y ago
    Yea I agree, just offering a solution. I am excited for Apple to switch to USB-C for the iPhone as well. It's quite irritating that it's not... one cable to rule them all! But then they went and added HDMI and SD back to the Mac, so now they have a better argument since they aren't actually doing the one-cable approach.
deleted 5y ago
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whizzter 5y ago
A combination is the best, got some cheap noise cancelling JBL BT phones and if you plug a cable it'll always use that (they even work as dumb headphones when turned off), pull the cable and they'll happily go for BT.
sriku 5y ago
Not to mention how the wired apple earphones are way better in terms of audio quality during calls than airpods (own both, and airpod "pro" to boot). Heck, during most calls, my colleagues tell me that the sound is way better when I use my macbook air builtin microphone than when I use my airpods .. on zoom, ms teams, whatever. Not to mention how my airpods pro started discharging in a skewed manner - with one ear piece discharging faster than the other. None of these are problems with the wired earphones.
eddieh 5y ago
Some people hate to be physically tethered to their desk from their head. Maybe wireless headphones have to be paired and charged, but that beats standing up an pulling your laptop to the floor while your headphones are jerked off your head. And nothing is better than being able to pace around while on a call.
the_snooze 5y ago
Wired headphones have an amazingly simple, reliable, and consistent pairing method with devices. Little kids and senior citizens can operate wired headphones with ease.
- ceejayoz 5y ago
  My wired headphones had a frustrating tendency to pair with unwanted devices like elbows, chairs, desks, and other protrusions. This tended to unpair them from either my device or my ears. edit: Oh, and to themselves. Knotted up cords leading to wires failing caused more than one set of mine to only work in one ear.
criddell 5y ago
> Their battery life was infinite. That's true, but only because they used your device's battery. It takes more power for your phone to drive headphones than it does to transmit a bluetooth signal. This is not such a big issue any more since recent phones have crazy long battery life as do recent bluetooth headphones. In 2017 it was a bigger issue.
- Wowfunhappy 5y ago
  > It takes more power for your phone to drive headphones than it does to transmit a bluetooth signal. ...are you sure? And, is that still true even once you consider the extra encoding the phone’s CPU has to do? I was under the impression that conventional 3.55mm jacks output exceedingly little power...
  - criddell 5y ago
    It's true but there are a bunch of little caveats. How big are the drivers, at what volume are you listening, headphone impedance, etc... These days it really don't matter. Phone have ample battery capacity.
- falcolas 5y ago
  As someone who falls more in the "wired4life" category, the power draw of headphones has never been an issue, Even back in the naughts. That place of honor is reserved for websites, apps, and cell radios. Ironically, with the loss of the 2.5mm jack power has a greater chance to be an issue, since your headphones and power have to occupy the same jack.
pohl 5y ago
I prefer not being at the end of a leash. To each, their own.
- pessimizer 5y ago
  A hook is so much better than a leash?
toxik 5y ago
Cars these days are the same -- you know what didn't need fancy pants computer tools to diagnose? Horses. Let's bring back horses.
- 6510 5y ago
  You might love your car, the horse will love you back.
saberience 5y ago
I've broken at least three or four pairs of wired headphones in the gym/while working out getting them caught in something and then the cable being jerked and broken, not the mention the intense annoyance of the cable always ending up in a horrible knot in my pocket. With my Airpods Pro, my original pair are working great, no breakages, amazing for working out with, no cable to get tangled. I love them.
throwaway894345 5y ago
Don’t forget the super fun untangling puzzle that you get to solve before each use! Or the eardrum damaging fun of having the buds ripped out of your ears every time the cord catches on something. “Just works” indeed!
tptacek 5y ago
I love wired headphones, but I have never had a pair whose cable didn't short out within a year; I got to the point where I'd buy replacement cables with the headphones. I've got B&O's, NAD's, and Sennheisers, both open and closed, and: I might as well keep them in a lighted display case, because I never use them anymore. Once Apple came out with the Max AirPods, I was done with wired headphones. I don't want to be! But they're too much better a product.
- heleninboodler 5y ago
  I think this is a fascinating aspect to the overall wired-vs-wireless debate. Some people simply have a problem with wires and some don't. I have three pairs of over-the-ear wired headphones that have been with me for 7, ~10, and >20 years, respectively, and none of them have ever had any cable damage. I've never ended up with flaky wiring on a cheap pair of apple earbuds, either. The very cheap earbuds that came with my HTC G-2 did end up with flaky cables but they're an aberration in my experience. Coincidentally, or perhaps not, I really don't have any grudge against wires, but I do loathe the fidgety connectivity of bluetooth. Of course, I'm also baffled about how everyone I know and hear about seems to be unable to keep their macbook power cable from self-destructing, and I just keep accumulating them because they never die. My favorite one is still a MagSafe 1 from, I think, 2012. [edit: in retrospect, perhaps the fact that I have a "favorite" power cable is some kind of red flag. Re-evaluating my life...]
hnburnsy 5y ago
Agreed, but I wonder why all the complaints about wired headphones using a lightning\USBC 3.5 mm adapter. I don't find it obtrusive, and the iPhone (and many phones now) can be charged wirelessly when the adapter is in place.
- Wowfunhappy 5y ago
  It's a problem when I need to plug my headphones into anything that isn't an iPhone. Based on past experience, I expect I would loose the adapter.
rockostrich 5y ago
Yea, but can you just get up and use the bathroom while still listening in a meeting with wired headphones?
- Anderkent 5y ago
  if they're plugged into my phone, sure if i'm on the laptop, by the time i take five paces away the sound quality on bluetooth is so bad it's basically unusable anyway
asdfsd234234444 5y ago
lol
jhaile 5y ago
Wired headphones also switch between devices almost instantaneously. Or at least, when you unplug from one device and plug into another, you're guaranteed to have it switched to the right device. That being said, I use my Airpod Pros almost all the time, because I'm hooked on wireless and being able to stand up and walk around, etc.
antihero 5y ago
I found I was just getting sick of the faff and bulk with my wired ATH-M50x + FiiO A3 amp. I have tried most of the big bluetooth buds (Airpods 3, Buds Pro, XM4, Audio Technicas), I absolutely hated them. I've ended up using the FiiO UTWS5 (over ear bluetooth hooks that connect via standard IEM connectors) + Moondrop Katos, the setup is sublime. Fantastic sound quality, very reliable and great battery life with no faf and can fit it in my pocket. If you still want wired, the Apple dongle actually has a DAC/amp that is regarded surprisingly highly in the audiophile headphone community. Just remember to charge your phone. I think most of the mainstream options for wireless stuff will make hi-fi enjoyers miserable, you just have to look at something a bit more interesting. The only disadvantage is you don't get so much of the supporting features. Ambient mode isn't great, there's no ANC (I don't really care about these things), and it doesn't have the fancy pair-switching integrated stuff, so wouldn't be great if you switch between laptop and phone. But for audio, we've reached a point where it is absolutely excellent.
pmelendez 5y ago
> Y’know what headphones really did “just work” though? Wired headphones, circa 2017. And you know what's a major annoyance right? Untangling wired headphones.
acomjean 5y ago
I upgraded my 6s finally.. and the lack of headphone jack is frankly painful. I can’t just plug into my car, home office, and office headphones.. I lost the little dongle.. I think I’m going to buy 3 of those adapters and leave them where I use my headphones. What a waste. Wireless changing helps the charge while listening though, so that’s a plus.
yepthatsreality 5y ago
You may be interested in the Senheisser Momentum 3’s which have excellent connectivity and a fallback audio cable.
taneq 5y ago
I, too, have a 6S and my travel headphones are wired. Partly because they work with any device with a headphone jack, partly because of the battery life issue, but mostly because of my phone slips down the side of the aeroplane seat I can fish the bugger back up again with the headphone cord!
culopatin 5y ago
You know what just works? Natural sounds from your environment. No need for equipment, no wires to snag, no pairing or plugging, you could even do it in your sleep. Oh, and it is zero emissions. Courage, indeed. And this is why I am not even typing this. I’m just imagining things, because it’s free and good for the environment.
- p1mrx 5y ago
  https://www.theonion.com/i-have-an-ipod-in-my-mind-1819584018 https://www.theonion.com/i-have-an-ipod-in-my-mind-181958401...
- renewiltord 5y ago
  Hahaha perfection. I love you.
enaaem 5y ago
For out of the house, I would never go back to wired in-ears anymore. Untangling cables and the occasional yank out of your ear is not user friendly. For outside, I actually find wireless headphones to sound better for three main reasons: - Better fit. Proper fit is essential for good sound and I rarely get a good fit on wired in-ears due to the constant pull on the cord. - Microphonics (cable rubbing noise). Microphonics is very obvious and annoying. It is far more obvious than for example the difference between AAC and lossless. Audiophile reviewers hardly ever evaluate microphonics, because they test under ideal conditions behind their desk. Cable noise is not considered part of the driver's sound signature, but in real life it has a huge impact of what comes in your ear. - Noise cancelling. Music sounds better without bus engine sounds.
- OJFord 5y ago
  > Noise cancelling. Music sounds better without bus engine sounds. That's nothing to do with wireless though? I'm a bit of a convert to (Anker .. 'SoundCore P2' I think) wireless earphones (AirPod style, not sports-style-round-back-of-neck), but for ages I used noise cancelling wired earphones, with a little Bluetooth receiver when I wanted them wireless that I thought was the best of both worlds. I now think no wire at all is nicer though. (But probably not if I had to pay Apple prices! These Anker ones were £30.)
powersurge360 5y ago
You can do both tbh. Wireless headphones are great because if you charge them relatively frequently, they're a light, painless pack. I'm pretty into high fidelity audio, but I'm not going to be walking around w/ my DT 990 pros. But if I'm out running errands, being able to break out the AirPods is amazing. And realistically, it's not that significant to just buy an adapter and keep it permanently affixed to your headphones. Will be better if/when apple fully moves off of lightning to usb-c but I have found that when I want a high fidelity experience w/ music I'm more likely to be sitting and plugged in anyways.
ineedasername 5y ago
What's a headphone jack?
foogazi 5y ago
> And this is why I’m currently typing my comment on an iPhone 6S... You can get aux adapters for newer iphones for around $10 - great for when you can’t find your airpods
- heleninboodler 5y ago
  I thought this was a pretty reasonable compromise, except that whenever I need mine I can't find it. Today, I know exactly where it is, but that's 15 miles away. The funny thing about this problem is that the experience only suffers on Apple devices when I can't find the dongle. I can use my nice fancy favorite headphones everywhere else with no problem. Apple is not about to convince me to toss my favorite headphones just because they are stubborn about headphone jacks; sorry. Note that it also causes a problem that bugs me daily, which is that I can't use my headset when my power is low and I need to plug my phone in. They make those little "splitter" dongles that allegedly allow you to do both, but in my experience, they only work about 50% of the time, and while you're on your call, your phone secretly stops charging and goes dead, or sometimes the moment you plug it in, it puts up an alert that says "unsupported device" and neither the power nor the headset work at all. I've tried three or four different brands on three different iPhones and they're all so flaky I've stopped even trying. I wish Apple would just make one and stand behind the quality and make me pay $10 for it. I'd be grumpy about it, but at least it would work.
  - foogazi 5y ago
    You can use a wireless charger for this exact scenario
    - heleninboodler 5y ago
      My phone doesn't support wireless charging.
jon889 5y ago
Wired headphones took forever to put on though. You’d have to untangle them when taking them out your pocket. And when commuting I’d tuck the wire down my shirt so it didn’t flap everywhere and get caught on things, but that meant taking your phone out your pocket pulled on it. I misplaced my AirPods for a bit a while ago and switched to wired headphones and couldn’t believe I had put up with it for years before I got AirPods.
whateveracct 5y ago
My laptop headphone jack is 1-2ft away from me during every video call and I still prefer AirPods (on Linux no less!)
karmakaze 5y ago
Sound quality via wired audio is also much better, unless your particular phone doesn't have decent DAC/analogue circuitry. I can't bring myself to listen to music on wireless. I don't even know that Apple takes advantage of their walled garden to do better than the usual Bluetooth protocols. > From https://9to5mac.com/2021/12/30/apple-airpods-bluetooth-limitations/ https://9to5mac.com/2021/12/30/apple-airpods-bluetooth-limit... > One of the most notable comments in the interview came from Geaves when asked whether Bluetooth could be “holding back” the AirPods hardware and “stifling sound quality. In his response, Geaves danced around criticizing Bluetooth directly, but acknowledged that Apple would really like a wireless standard that allows for more bandwidth.
karaterobot 5y ago
I own a pair of Airpods for work, and they're fine for a couple hours of Zoom calls every day. For non-work, I have a pair of headphones with a lightning input. It's still annoying, because I can't charge my phone or transfer data while listening to music, and I still disagree with Apple's courageous decision to remove the 3.5mm jack, but it's an okay solution.
bart_spoon 5y ago
They also snagged on everything, got tied up in knots in your pocket, the wires would give out all the time requiring you to buy new ones, were obnoxious to use when exercising, and limited the physical distance you could move from the device you were using to about 2 feet. There are issues with wireless headphones, but they also solve a lot of genuine problems with wired ones.
baxtr 5y ago
That's just not true. They never just worked for me at least. - Cables would get cluttered in my clothes - Cables would eventually all break at one point - The cables were a mess in a any jacket / bag - The microphone was making weird sounds when they hit my face and and people would complain - etc.
mcot2 5y ago
I’m surprised you are not using a typewriter.
deleted 5y ago
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astura 5y ago
Yeah, I thought wireless headphones were a gimmick I didn't need, I didn't want to worry about having to charge headphones, etc. I ended up with a pair and turns out wireless headphones were a giant QOL improvement. I can run around do chores while my computer/phone charges upstairs and listen to music at the same time. I'd never use earbuds though, I absolutely can't stand anything inside my ear canal. I still want my phone/computer to have a headphone jack in it, and mine does.
treesrule 5y ago
I still just my ath M50xs for everything, its lovely, but its very annoying to use with my newer phone
csomar 5y ago
> Wired headphones, circa 2017. I hope we never go back to those days. That constant struggle with the wires, having to take the phone with you, too short wire for desktop usage, the wire getting in the way when moving/jogging, etc...
frankfrankfrank 5y ago
Caveat: This reply got a longer than intended and broadens a bit, but please indulge me because I think you are also onto something I have been scratching my head about for decades now, amidst outrage for questioning tech dogma. I agree with you to an overwhelming degree. I also had an iPhone 6S until about a year ago and I have to say the upgrade to the iNext Pro was pretty underwhelming in many, if not most ways when objectively evaluated. I have also had AirPods for however long they have been out and even though I would agree with the rebuttal to your point that many other BT headphones are notably even more glitchy, I also paid about 5 times less for some of them that work almost just as well in most ways and aspects. There seems to be an odd kind of self-delusion going on where somehow whatever is new, is assumed to not only also be better, but significantly better, when if one just takes a first principles approach to evaluating that proposition, at best you find marginal or incremental improvement of diminishing returns. The 6S was released over 6 years ago, is it even doubly as good, let alone exponentially more capable? There is a huge hurdle in overcoming the reality that the answer is no. There is all this lamenting about sustainability and environment this and climate change that, but for some reason, e.g., an old Apple device (picking on them because I believe they are the highest standard bar) cannot perform as well due to simple UI and UX changes? There is seriously something wrong with the whole matrix and I have not been able to get any kind of satisfactory answer as to why, e.g., an old 1st (or 2nd) gen iPad Air all the sudden cannot perform †h same simple, core tasks it performed exceedingly well when it was new, that being loading safari and less than demanding website like HN. What has changed in the 9 years since the 1st gen iPad Air came out that all the sudden browsing is now an extremely demanding task on the device? It seems like intentional and fraudulent designed obsolescence. Where are the environmentally concerned drawing attention to this like I am? Just imagine if your car got updates every year, and then you find that 9 years later all the sudden the same engine has 100 less horsepower and can't get up a moderately sized hill anymore. That's not suspect to anyone else? Again, I would love for someone to explain how I am wrong, that I cannot expect a product I buy to retain the same performance for the same actions/tasks when nothing else has changed. Does the CPU age and die off? We should all be demanding that a device must retain its performance in all aspects of the original function. Everything else is fraud. Please for anyone compelled to, refrain from your "you don't know how it works" comments, that is not the case, nor helpful, and rather blind to reality.

duxup 5y ago

I think it goes to show how much “just works enough “ consumers are happy to tolerate for wireless over other advantages of wired. I remember early consumer wi- fi was just garbage compared to wired and… we still used it happily. Granted sometimes we go back… my cars Bluetooth is so maddening I use a cable instead.

falcolas 5y ago
FWIW, the proliferation of video calls over my laptop has pushed me back to wired internet at my desk. Combined with wired headphones - I have so much less latency than any of my co-workers. It's nice to not have to play the "can you hear me" song and dance.
- ashtonkem 5y ago
  I did that until I updated the wifi in my house. There’s a combination wired/wireless wire plate under my desk, but I don’t bother wiring it into my work computer, because the wifi is faster than what the cheap USB C adapter can offer.
  - falcolas 5y ago
    Faster and lower latency are not the same things. > the cheap USB C adapter I have to ask, what kind of internet speeds do you have where even a cheap wired adapter can't beat it? That's pretty incredible.
    - duxup 5y ago
      You getting a lot of latency over wifi? I find wifi almost entirely dies around the time I get wonky latency... but having said that everyone's wifi situation is different depending on network, building / home structure and etc.
    - ashtonkem 5y ago
      950 down, 50 up. Wifi will pull 450 easy, but my hub will only do 100, despite claims to the contrary. 450 is good enough for my use case, so it’s easier to just not worry about it and avoid running another wire up the sit stand desk. If I upgrade my hub to something that’ll pull the claimed 1G, I might change. Or maybe not. I dunno. Literally nothing I do on the internet can get close to saturating it. Edit: wifi adds a mere 5ms of latency in my office. I consider this beneath my notice for basically everything but gaming. And even there it probably is meaningless given my relatively low skill level.
      - falcolas 5y ago
        > my hub will only do 100 Oof, that sucks. 5ms per round trip adds up, especially when you add in every other source of latency in your chain. I've also found that, thanks to general RF noise from everything being wireless these days, latency spikes occur much more often over wi-fi than wired. YMMV, of course. Always worth measuring your own experience.
        ashtonkem 5y ago
        I went back to wireless specifically because I was noticing issues on that hub. I went to the trouble to setup control plane to disable wifi when Ethernet was plugged in, and zoom performance tanked. Going back to wifi solved it. I think that the adapter was dropping packets, but I never bothered to triage since wifi works great in this house. It’s worth mentioning that my setup has very, very low latency. Lag between me and the speed test server in city is 5ms wired, 10ms wireless. My router is way overpowered for what I ask of it, so throughput and latency tends to be very good. To be fair, my wifi setup is a bit … extra. I’m running 5 APs, two switches, a controller, and a dedicated router, with a dedicated AP for my office that’s a combo wired/wireless outlet. I’ve turned it down so that it’s basically only serving my office, and it has a dedicated cat6 backhaul to the network cabinet, no sharing airspace with other APs. If I hadn’t gone to all this trouble, I’d probably upgrade my hub and go wired.
Wowfunhappy 5y ago
I agree, but I'm going to defend the wifi case a little. Ethernet doesn't work if you're using a laptop, because it defeats the purpose of having a portable computer in the first place. You either have to be able to work offline, or you have to stay next to an ethernet plug. I said above that wired headphones have infinite battery life. I suppose I could say the same about a desktop computer versus a laptop, but I don't think that would be fair.

jrm4 5y ago

And also, you could pair them with your handheld device in 1980.

yoz-y 5y ago

Honestly, the fact that I no longer snag my earphones on random protrusions, like doorknobs and bus ticket validating machines is a bliss. Cables inside at a desk: sure, why not. Cables outside: hard pass.

bravetraveler 5y ago
I get that no cables can be nice and convenient, but routing the wire through a shirt/jacket helps avoid getting caught edit: lol, an instant downvote - didn't realize I was on Reddit. It was at best a suggestion for when you have to get by with cabled headphones. I'm not on some holy war.
swah 5y ago
Ditto. And since we now wear masks at the office, one notices how wireless earbuds are "mask compatible" when you try using cabled ones.
- falcolas 5y ago
  Really? I always see them go flying when taking off a mask to eat or drink. The random protrusions to escape the faraday cage that is your head don't seem to interact well with elastic loops.
- pessimizer 5y ago
  Wired earbuds are amazing with masks. If you put them on before you put on the mask, when you need to take one off to hear something, the mask straps hold it conveniently hanging near your ear. A fumbled airpod rolling across the floor is not an improvement.
Cthulhu_ 5y ago
I'd pass the wires through my shirt, keep them from snagging or pulling my ears too much.
- munk-a 5y ago
  Back in the day I made good use of those oversized jacket pockets to pop my CD player in - then you just run the cable up under your shirt and you're good to go. It's surprising how little of a hassle headphone cables can be - I understand that the market is going elsewhere but I've stuck with wired and couldn't be more content. This does have the side effect that I've been soft locked out of Apple phones though, so I switched over to Android devices.

deleted 5y ago

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iqanq 5y ago

After using airpods I am never ever going back to wired headphones.

Razengan 5y ago
I am sorry but you must be downvoted to prevent your counter opinion from being seen.

Causality1 5y ago

Not to mention zero latency. Trying to have multiple people in a car play music/podcasts is a nightmare over bluetooth when you used to be able to just pass an aux cable around.

prox 5y ago
I bought a Sony that does BT and wired, I love the whynotboth movement personally. Why do we have to choose?
- KptMarchewa 5y ago
  WH-1000xm3 sound much worse when wired. They are made to use internal DAC.
  - thebean11 5y ago
    Wouldn't wired use the DAC on the device rather than the headphones? I thought the 3.5mm jack carried an analog signal.
    - writeslowly 5y ago
      Those Sony headphones do processing to the signal regardless of whether you're using wireless or a 3.5mm. They can still make sound with no power but it feels more like a backup in case the battery is dead. It seems like a sensible design decision given that most users will want them turned on for noise canceling even if they're wired.
    - ziml77 5y ago
      That's his point. They're using the device's DAC when wired which is why it doesn't sound as good as when using Bluetooth through the headphones' DAC.
      - thebean11 5y ago
        Sure but that's an issue with wired headphones in general, not specific to these.

chii 5y ago

I used to be like you. Then i tried, for real, a pair of bluetooth headphones. The disadvantages of the bluetooth is by far outweighed by the wireless advantage. The mobility, flexibility and convenience of no tangles and accidental wire pulling and causing phone to drop - all worth it. And wireless UX is only going to get better. Wired is dead.

silent_cal 5y ago
Did you try putting the wire under your clothes or something?
- greedo 5y ago
  That's incredibly inconvenient and often uncomfortable.
xg15 5y ago
The mobility, flexibility snd convenience of me still sitting on front of the same PC for eight hours?
- nisegami 5y ago
  Use the right tool for the job. Sometimes that's wired headphones. Sometimes that's bluetooth headphones.
  - dspillett 5y ago
    Though being able to use the right tool, in circumstances where that is a wired set, can be a problem on some platforms.
    - criddell 5y ago
      The "right tool" might be an adapter or hub.
    - openknot 5y ago

megapolitics 5y ago

>Their battery life was infinite. However, the life of the cable was a few months at best in my experience.

Wowfunhappy 5y ago
Well, you had to pay more for better headphones with better cables. But wireless headphones are expensive anyway. (And have non-replaceable batteries which will also permanently die after a couple years.)
- ziml77 5y ago
  The best cables still break when they're moving a lot. The important thing is for the headphones to have replaceable cables. But only the high-end headphones and earbuds have that feature.
  - soylentcola 5y ago
    I can only speak from my own experience, but I've been using the same set of wired KZ ZSN in-ear-monitors for the past few years. They're nothing ground-breaking, but they cost under $25. The wires loop back behind my ears so they don't get pulled out easily, the wires have yet to short out, and they are replaceable in case I ever want or need to replace them. I almost always use them with my phone, so the USB-C-to-3.5mm dongle that came with my phone is typically attached to the end. I don't mean to shill for this or any other brand in particular, but I'm pretty sure there are several affordable, decent quality earbuds/IEMs out there with replaceable cables.
    - dont__panic 5y ago
      Replaceable cables are a game changer in this space. The buds will last for years and years, and make up the bulk of the cost of a set. The cable could get ruined by one unlucky event... but if you have a couple of backup cables like me, it doesn't really matter. You can buy replacement cables off of Aliexpress for <$10.
  - 5y ago

ericmay 5y ago

I wouldn't let the lack of a headphone jack deter you from upgrading a phone if you wanted. You can get one of those adapter things and just leave it attached to your headphones if you wanted. I know people think it's annoying that you even have to do this but it's an option. I bet you can get one for free from a friend even. I do have a nostalgic feelings for the iPhone 4s and headphones. I wish there were products out there that excited me in the same way my first iPhone did.

Wowfunhappy 5y ago
> You can get one of those adapter things and just leave it attached to your headphones if you wanted. The problem is that I’d have to unplug that adapter to use my headphones with a device other than my phone, including other Apple devices like my Macbook. I would subsequently loose the adapter, guaranteed. If the world could agree to use USB-C for everything, that might work, but Apple—who started this mess—is a prime holdout there.
- ericmay 5y ago
  Yea I agree, just offering a solution. I am excited for Apple to switch to USB-C for the iPhone as well. It's quite irritating that it's not... one cable to rule them all! But then they went and added HDMI and SD back to the Mac, so now they have a better argument since they aren't actually doing the one-cable approach.

deleted 5y ago

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whizzter 5y ago

A combination is the best, got some cheap noise cancelling JBL BT phones and if you plug a cable it'll always use that (they even work as dumb headphones when turned off), pull the cable and they'll happily go for BT.

sriku 5y ago

Not to mention how the wired apple earphones are way better in terms of audio quality during calls than airpods (own both, and airpod "pro" to boot). Heck, during most calls, my colleagues tell me that the sound is way better when I use my macbook air builtin microphone than when I use my airpods .. on zoom, ms teams, whatever. Not to mention how my airpods pro started discharging in a skewed manner - with one ear piece discharging faster than the other. None of these are problems with the wired earphones.

eddieh 5y ago

Some people hate to be physically tethered to their desk from their head. Maybe wireless headphones have to be paired and charged, but that beats standing up an pulling your laptop to the floor while your headphones are jerked off your head. And nothing is better than being able to pace around while on a call.

the_snooze 5y ago

Wired headphones have an amazingly simple, reliable, and consistent pairing method with devices. Little kids and senior citizens can operate wired headphones with ease.

ceejayoz 5y ago
My wired headphones had a frustrating tendency to pair with unwanted devices like elbows, chairs, desks, and other protrusions. This tended to unpair them from either my device or my ears. edit: Oh, and to themselves. Knotted up cords leading to wires failing caused more than one set of mine to only work in one ear.

criddell 5y ago

> Their battery life was infinite. That's true, but only because they used your device's battery. It takes more power for your phone to drive headphones than it does to transmit a bluetooth signal. This is not such a big issue any more since recent phones have crazy long battery life as do recent bluetooth headphones. In 2017 it was a bigger issue.

Wowfunhappy 5y ago
> It takes more power for your phone to drive headphones than it does to transmit a bluetooth signal. ...are you sure? And, is that still true even once you consider the extra encoding the phone’s CPU has to do? I was under the impression that conventional 3.55mm jacks output exceedingly little power...
- criddell 5y ago
  It's true but there are a bunch of little caveats. How big are the drivers, at what volume are you listening, headphone impedance, etc... These days it really don't matter. Phone have ample battery capacity.
falcolas 5y ago
As someone who falls more in the "wired4life" category, the power draw of headphones has never been an issue, Even back in the naughts. That place of honor is reserved for websites, apps, and cell radios. Ironically, with the loss of the 2.5mm jack power has a greater chance to be an issue, since your headphones and power have to occupy the same jack.

pohl 5y ago

I prefer not being at the end of a leash. To each, their own.

pessimizer 5y ago
A hook is so much better than a leash?

toxik 5y ago

Cars these days are the same -- you know what didn't need fancy pants computer tools to diagnose? Horses. Let's bring back horses.

6510 5y ago
You might love your car, the horse will love you back.

saberience 5y ago

I've broken at least three or four pairs of wired headphones in the gym/while working out getting them caught in something and then the cable being jerked and broken, not the mention the intense annoyance of the cable always ending up in a horrible knot in my pocket. With my Airpods Pro, my original pair are working great, no breakages, amazing for working out with, no cable to get tangled. I love them.

throwaway894345 5y ago

Don’t forget the super fun untangling puzzle that you get to solve before each use! Or the eardrum damaging fun of having the buds ripped out of your ears every time the cord catches on something. “Just works” indeed!

tptacek 5y ago

I love wired headphones, but I have never had a pair whose cable didn't short out within a year; I got to the point where I'd buy replacement cables with the headphones. I've got B&O's, NAD's, and Sennheisers, both open and closed, and: I might as well keep them in a lighted display case, because I never use them anymore. Once Apple came out with the Max AirPods, I was done with wired headphones. I don't want to be! But they're too much better a product.

heleninboodler 5y ago
I think this is a fascinating aspect to the overall wired-vs-wireless debate. Some people simply have a problem with wires and some don't. I have three pairs of over-the-ear wired headphones that have been with me for 7, ~10, and >20 years, respectively, and none of them have ever had any cable damage. I've never ended up with flaky wiring on a cheap pair of apple earbuds, either. The very cheap earbuds that came with my HTC G-2 did end up with flaky cables but they're an aberration in my experience. Coincidentally, or perhaps not, I really don't have any grudge against wires, but I do loathe the fidgety connectivity of bluetooth. Of course, I'm also baffled about how everyone I know and hear about seems to be unable to keep their macbook power cable from self-destructing, and I just keep accumulating them because they never die. My favorite one is still a MagSafe 1 from, I think, 2012. [edit: in retrospect, perhaps the fact that I have a "favorite" power cable is some kind of red flag. Re-evaluating my life...]

hnburnsy 5y ago

Agreed, but I wonder why all the complaints about wired headphones using a lightning\USBC 3.5 mm adapter. I don't find it obtrusive, and the iPhone (and many phones now) can be charged wirelessly when the adapter is in place.

Wowfunhappy 5y ago
It's a problem when I need to plug my headphones into anything that isn't an iPhone. Based on past experience, I expect I would loose the adapter.

rockostrich 5y ago

Yea, but can you just get up and use the bathroom while still listening in a meeting with wired headphones?

Anderkent 5y ago
if they're plugged into my phone, sure if i'm on the laptop, by the time i take five paces away the sound quality on bluetooth is so bad it's basically unusable anyway

asdfsd234234444 5y ago

lol

jhaile 5y ago

Wired headphones also switch between devices almost instantaneously. Or at least, when you unplug from one device and plug into another, you're guaranteed to have it switched to the right device. That being said, I use my Airpod Pros almost all the time, because I'm hooked on wireless and being able to stand up and walk around, etc.

antihero 5y ago

I found I was just getting sick of the faff and bulk with my wired ATH-M50x + FiiO A3 amp. I have tried most of the big bluetooth buds (Airpods 3, Buds Pro, XM4, Audio Technicas), I absolutely hated them. I've ended up using the FiiO UTWS5 (over ear bluetooth hooks that connect via standard IEM connectors) + Moondrop Katos, the setup is sublime. Fantastic sound quality, very reliable and great battery life with no faf and can fit it in my pocket. If you still want wired, the Apple dongle actually has a DAC/amp that is regarded surprisingly highly in the audiophile headphone community. Just remember to charge your phone. I think most of the mainstream options for wireless stuff will make hi-fi enjoyers miserable, you just have to look at something a bit more interesting. The only disadvantage is you don't get so much of the supporting features. Ambient mode isn't great, there's no ANC (I don't really care about these things), and it doesn't have the fancy pair-switching integrated stuff, so wouldn't be great if you switch between laptop and phone. But for audio, we've reached a point where it is absolutely excellent.

pmelendez 5y ago

> Y’know what headphones really did “just work” though? Wired headphones, circa 2017. And you know what's a major annoyance right? Untangling wired headphones.

acomjean 5y ago

I upgraded my 6s finally.. and the lack of headphone jack is frankly painful. I can’t just plug into my car, home office, and office headphones.. I lost the little dongle.. I think I’m going to buy 3 of those adapters and leave them where I use my headphones. What a waste. Wireless changing helps the charge while listening though, so that’s a plus.

yepthatsreality 5y ago

You may be interested in the Senheisser Momentum 3’s which have excellent connectivity and a fallback audio cable.

taneq 5y ago

I, too, have a 6S and my travel headphones are wired. Partly because they work with any device with a headphone jack, partly because of the battery life issue, but mostly because of my phone slips down the side of the aeroplane seat I can fish the bugger back up again with the headphone cord!

culopatin 5y ago

You know what just works? Natural sounds from your environment. No need for equipment, no wires to snag, no pairing or plugging, you could even do it in your sleep. Oh, and it is zero emissions. Courage, indeed. And this is why I am not even typing this. I’m just imagining things, because it’s free and good for the environment.

p1mrx 5y ago
https://www.theonion.com/i-have-an-ipod-in-my-mind-1819584018 https://www.theonion.com/i-have-an-ipod-in-my-mind-181958401...
renewiltord 5y ago
Hahaha perfection. I love you.

enaaem 5y ago

For out of the house, I would never go back to wired in-ears anymore. Untangling cables and the occasional yank out of your ear is not user friendly. For outside, I actually find wireless headphones to sound better for three main reasons: - Better fit. Proper fit is essential for good sound and I rarely get a good fit on wired in-ears due to the constant pull on the cord. - Microphonics (cable rubbing noise). Microphonics is very obvious and annoying. It is far more obvious than for example the difference between AAC and lossless. Audiophile reviewers hardly ever evaluate microphonics, because they test under ideal conditions behind their desk. Cable noise is not considered part of the driver's sound signature, but in real life it has a huge impact of what comes in your ear. - Noise cancelling. Music sounds better without bus engine sounds.

OJFord 5y ago
> Noise cancelling. Music sounds better without bus engine sounds. That's nothing to do with wireless though? I'm a bit of a convert to (Anker .. 'SoundCore P2' I think) wireless earphones (AirPod style, not sports-style-round-back-of-neck), but for ages I used noise cancelling wired earphones, with a little Bluetooth receiver when I wanted them wireless that I thought was the best of both worlds. I now think no wire at all is nicer though. (But probably not if I had to pay Apple prices! These Anker ones were £30.)

powersurge360 5y ago

You can do both tbh. Wireless headphones are great because if you charge them relatively frequently, they're a light, painless pack. I'm pretty into high fidelity audio, but I'm not going to be walking around w/ my DT 990 pros. But if I'm out running errands, being able to break out the AirPods is amazing. And realistically, it's not that significant to just buy an adapter and keep it permanently affixed to your headphones. Will be better if/when apple fully moves off of lightning to usb-c but I have found that when I want a high fidelity experience w/ music I'm more likely to be sitting and plugged in anyways.

ineedasername 5y ago

What's a headphone jack?

foogazi 5y ago

> And this is why I’m currently typing my comment on an iPhone 6S... You can get aux adapters for newer iphones for around $10 - great for when you can’t find your airpods

heleninboodler 5y ago
I thought this was a pretty reasonable compromise, except that whenever I need mine I can't find it. Today, I know exactly where it is, but that's 15 miles away. The funny thing about this problem is that the experience only suffers on Apple devices when I can't find the dongle. I can use my nice fancy favorite headphones everywhere else with no problem. Apple is not about to convince me to toss my favorite headphones just because they are stubborn about headphone jacks; sorry. Note that it also causes a problem that bugs me daily, which is that I can't use my headset when my power is low and I need to plug my phone in. They make those little "splitter" dongles that allegedly allow you to do both, but in my experience, they only work about 50% of the time, and while you're on your call, your phone secretly stops charging and goes dead, or sometimes the moment you plug it in, it puts up an alert that says "unsupported device" and neither the power nor the headset work at all. I've tried three or four different brands on three different iPhones and they're all so flaky I've stopped even trying. I wish Apple would just make one and stand behind the quality and make me pay $10 for it. I'd be grumpy about it, but at least it would work.
- foogazi 5y ago
  You can use a wireless charger for this exact scenario
  - heleninboodler 5y ago
    My phone doesn't support wireless charging.

jon889 5y ago

Wired headphones took forever to put on though. You’d have to untangle them when taking them out your pocket. And when commuting I’d tuck the wire down my shirt so it didn’t flap everywhere and get caught on things, but that meant taking your phone out your pocket pulled on it. I misplaced my AirPods for a bit a while ago and switched to wired headphones and couldn’t believe I had put up with it for years before I got AirPods.

whateveracct 5y ago

My laptop headphone jack is 1-2ft away from me during every video call and I still prefer AirPods (on Linux no less!)

karmakaze 5y ago

Sound quality via wired audio is also much better, unless your particular phone doesn't have decent DAC/analogue circuitry. I can't bring myself to listen to music on wireless. I don't even know that Apple takes advantage of their walled garden to do better than the usual Bluetooth protocols. > From https://9to5mac.com/2021/12/30/apple-airpods-bluetooth-limitations/ https://9to5mac.com/2021/12/30/apple-airpods-bluetooth-limit... > One of the most notable comments in the interview came from Geaves when asked whether Bluetooth could be “holding back” the AirPods hardware and “stifling sound quality. In his response, Geaves danced around criticizing Bluetooth directly, but acknowledged that Apple would really like a wireless standard that allows for more bandwidth.

karaterobot 5y ago

I own a pair of Airpods for work, and they're fine for a couple hours of Zoom calls every day. For non-work, I have a pair of headphones with a lightning input. It's still annoying, because I can't charge my phone or transfer data while listening to music, and I still disagree with Apple's courageous decision to remove the 3.5mm jack, but it's an okay solution.

bart_spoon 5y ago

They also snagged on everything, got tied up in knots in your pocket, the wires would give out all the time requiring you to buy new ones, were obnoxious to use when exercising, and limited the physical distance you could move from the device you were using to about 2 feet. There are issues with wireless headphones, but they also solve a lot of genuine problems with wired ones.

baxtr 5y ago

That's just not true. They never just worked for me at least. - Cables would get cluttered in my clothes - Cables would eventually all break at one point - The cables were a mess in a any jacket / bag - The microphone was making weird sounds when they hit my face and and people would complain - etc.

mcot2 5y ago

I’m surprised you are not using a typewriter.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

astura 5y ago

Yeah, I thought wireless headphones were a gimmick I didn't need, I didn't want to worry about having to charge headphones, etc. I ended up with a pair and turns out wireless headphones were a giant QOL improvement. I can run around do chores while my computer/phone charges upstairs and listen to music at the same time. I'd never use earbuds though, I absolutely can't stand anything inside my ear canal. I still want my phone/computer to have a headphone jack in it, and mine does.

treesrule 5y ago

I still just my ath M50xs for everything, its lovely, but its very annoying to use with my newer phone

csomar 5y ago

> Wired headphones, circa 2017. I hope we never go back to those days. That constant struggle with the wires, having to take the phone with you, too short wire for desktop usage, the wire getting in the way when moving/jogging, etc...

frankfrankfrank 5y ago

Caveat: This reply got a longer than intended and broadens a bit, but please indulge me because I think you are also onto something I have been scratching my head about for decades now, amidst outrage for questioning tech dogma. I agree with you to an overwhelming degree. I also had an iPhone 6S until about a year ago and I have to say the upgrade to the iNext Pro was pretty underwhelming in many, if not most ways when objectively evaluated. I have also had AirPods for however long they have been out and even though I would agree with the rebuttal to your point that many other BT headphones are notably even more glitchy, I also paid about 5 times less for some of them that work almost just as well in most ways and aspects. There seems to be an odd kind of self-delusion going on where somehow whatever is new, is assumed to not only also be better, but significantly better, when if one just takes a first principles approach to evaluating that proposition, at best you find marginal or incremental improvement of diminishing returns. The 6S was released over 6 years ago, is it even doubly as good, let alone exponentially more capable? There is a huge hurdle in overcoming the reality that the answer is no. There is all this lamenting about sustainability and environment this and climate change that, but for some reason, e.g., an old Apple device (picking on them because I believe they are the highest standard bar) cannot perform as well due to simple UI and UX changes? There is seriously something wrong with the whole matrix and I have not been able to get any kind of satisfactory answer as to why, e.g., an old 1st (or 2nd) gen iPad Air all the sudden cannot perform †h same simple, core tasks it performed exceedingly well when it was new, that being loading safari and less than demanding website like HN. What has changed in the 9 years since the 1st gen iPad Air came out that all the sudden browsing is now an extremely demanding task on the device? It seems like intentional and fraudulent designed obsolescence. Where are the environmentally concerned drawing attention to this like I am? Just imagine if your car got updates every year, and then you find that 9 years later all the sudden the same engine has 100 less horsepower and can't get up a moderately sized hill anymore. That's not suspect to anyone else? Again, I would love for someone to explain how I am wrong, that I cannot expect a product I buy to retain the same performance for the same actions/tasks when nothing else has changed. Does the CPU age and die off? We should all be demanding that a device must retain its performance in all aspects of the original function. Everything else is fraud. Please for anyone compelled to, refrain from your "you don't know how it works" comments, that is not the case, nor helpful, and rather blind to reality.